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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NancyLee on May 15, 2002, at 7:47:32
hope this doesnt offend eveyone but I havegotten off a couple of my meds Trazadone, and reduced Clonapin substantially.
Have started to get stong urges again that I havent felt in years. I found out that if I go back to level 1, I might have a successful sex life again with husband.
First of all I have to work around the fact that he does have a brain injury and cannot make love the same way he used to and never will again. He has all the finesse of a barn yard animal right now. I think introducig a sex toy such as a vibrator might help. So instead of tring to get through a clumsy fore play session I think I might just become receptive by manual stimulation. I have used these things(vibrators) in the past and they are intense. When you have feeling, like me, when it is reduced it can be really pleasurable becuse it can be used longer and make me more receptive to intercourse wih my husband. Also fantasy in my mind I can conjure up past lovers and companions and lately this has been turning me on also. Sorry if this is too graphic. I am trying to figure this out for myself you know? Before marriage I was bisexual now that might have been due to being in my manic phases because when I was manic sex was constant I was the most promiscuous person I know of.
So I was thinking that a night in a nice hotel with a nice dinner and a relaxing atmosphere with my bag of goodies maybe massge oil? might help. But I must say I dont know if it is the change in meds or the addition of Trileptol I was telling everyone about, but Im feeling ready again.
So I think it will be like brand new for us again.......................peace & love
Posted by Roo on May 16, 2002, at 10:30:19
In reply to Back To Basics On Sex (sort of personal ), posted by NancyLee on May 15, 2002, at 7:47:32
Before marriage I was bisexual now that might have been due to being in my manic phases because when I was manic sex was constant I was the most promiscuous person I know of.
> So I was thinking that a night in a nice hotel with a nice dinner and a relaxing atmosphere with my bag of goodies maybe massge oil? might help. But I must say I dont know if it is the change in meds or the addition of Trileptol I was telling everyone about, but Im feeling ready again.
> So I think it will be like brand new for us again.......................peace & love
Sorry no one has really answered your post...it sucks
when you put something really personal out there and no one
bites (at least it sucks to me!) You talk about sex, and that's
a really vulnerable thing, isn't it? Anyway, back to your
post---why not try those things? It couldn't hurt...another thing
I thought of while reading your post was it might be kind of exciting
for your husband to watch you masterbate (talk about graphic...) that
way you can please yourself, and he can see how you do it....and it's
such a personal thing that takes so much guts, that it might make you
feel closer. I don't know if you've ever tried that before, but it
was just an idea that popped into my head. Are you on any meds that
effect you sexually? How's the emotional intimacy between you and your
husband? Have you talked with him about these ideas? That might be kind
of exciting....
Good luck and keep me posted--
Posted by krazy kat on May 16, 2002, at 11:08:10
In reply to Back To Basics On Sex (sort of personal ), posted by NancyLee on May 15, 2002, at 7:47:32
Yes, I agree with Roo - it sucks when there are no responses.
Yes, this is personal Nancy. But it's refreshing, and is purely within the subject of healthy sex.
You've got a tough situation, I think, but you sound tough. I would think that discussing it with your hubby first is going to help. Is that possible? How does he feel about sex now?
I like Roo's suggestion. Have you all ever read or seen "Being There"? One of the best "sex scenes" ever with Peter Sellers and Shirley MacLaine.
If your hubby isn't comfortable with sex, then other options will have to be explored I suppose. Hmmm...
Posted by NancyLee on May 16, 2002, at 12:30:36
In reply to Re: Back To Basics On Sex (sort of personal ), posted by Roo on May 16, 2002, at 10:30:19
I have been on meds that I think completely took away whatever sexualty I had in the first place. I have stopped taking them (just Depakote and trileptal) also wellbutrin but I am feeling the old stirrings again and it is kind of scary but kind of fun to feel sexy feelings again you know? I liked your response it makes sense and I guess that was the type of input I was looking for. But like I said it is part of a new journey for me that is personal I think I typed it because so many are having problems with their sex drive.......I think it has everything to do with the meds......and I think it is going to take a lot of work to bring it back around to a normal sex life even tho different normal for us now as I said my husband is brain injured so it is safe to say he is rather unpredictable about new ideas........thanks Roo.....peace & love...:)
Posted by wendy b. on May 16, 2002, at 13:44:19
In reply to Back To Basics On Sex (sort of personal ), posted by NancyLee on May 15, 2002, at 7:47:32
Sorry everyone,
I have been wanting to respond to these posts, but running around a bit (music concert for my daughter last night, teaching this a.m.)
Anyway, yes, I think it's great to pose these questions about sex and sexuality on the P-Babble board, it's very important. I think we need to be open, honest, and frank, use the language that makes sense, and obviously try not to offend others. So far, so good. But you know me, KKat, I swear a lot, too!
So in general, it's been a male posting on the Board (sorry, guys), who's about to go nuts, and is asking for advice, because he can't come on these drugs... especially the SSRI's. Almost any man I've ever heard of who takes them says his sex life is misery. Although I went out with a man, a few years back now, who was on Zoloft, and it was GREAT for me, because he could (eh-hem) LAST for a really long time... so, great for those of us who "want a lover with a slow hand," as the Pointer Sisters would say. I just like to take a looonnnggg time when I'm in bed with a man.
Anyway, on to the questions at hand. Nancy, it sounds like you're coming back to life sexually, and that's a great thing! I agree about the nice hotel and the wonderful dinner (with a little wine, not too much, it'll loosen you both up!), and then the goody-bag of sex toys... Massage oil, especially the kind you can swallow (i.e., doesn't taste awful when you need to lick or suck something) is great! Closing the eyes and releasing tension is a great warm-up. BTW, try http://www.adamandeve.com/ for the edible body lotion (recommendations: #3692, Strawberry Jam, and #9052 Juicy Cool Mint Lube, and no, I am not a sales rep for A & E, but it's a great site for all sorts of toys and ideas, and they ship in discreet brown boxes that don't call attention to the fact that you've just been shipped a dildo, or whatever).
I think just RELAXING and taking one's time are the most important things, for you and for Roo, too. Intimacy isn't about rough, hard & fast. It's about lying back and getting to know yourself and your lover. I think the recommendation from Kat to touch yourself in front of your lover is an excellent one. For the lead into this, DO rent "Being There" as Kat suggests... It's probably the best sex scene (no pentration, either) I've ever seen on film. Why? Because it's about female pleasure, and it's also just plain funny. Shirley McLaine is an absolute riot! And a very sexy woman...
More on "Being There:" it's a good video to watch to remind yourselves that it's ok to laugh and have fun in bed. And that you can sort of "back up" to earlier phases of sexual inimacy and have that be ok for now. The movie underlines the fact that every sexual act doesn't have to end in penetration and with fluids squirting. Sorry, guys. Shirley McLaine's character masturbates ecstatically in front of Chauncy Gardiner (Peter Sellers), whose main line throughout the movie is: "I like to watch." This sets Shirley off in a big way...
So, "backing up," or re-learning how to turn each ther on, might be a possibility. Getting to know how to kiss each other might be step number one. Just try necking on the couch. And that's it. No pressure to go further from either partner. Just kiss and play around. Pretend to be two little dogs, or kitties, roll around on the floor and have fun with each other. That's a very good way to get the intimacy going again. Just try to play, like kids in high school.
Roo, from your other posts, which I appreciate your writing, by the way, it's very courageous... you say you have a hard time not pretending to be some Hollywood diva in bed. I understand completely. I have felt that way, too. Like the only thing I could offer to a man in a relationship was great sex, since the rest of me (emotionally speaking) was such a mess. I mean, my hair was ok, and my bod was always pretty terrific, but I was always depressed and unsatisfied and sad. And I know now that I didn't love myself much, or at all sometimes, and that's a huge barrier to real intimacy. So 'pretending' is a real refuge. It's like hiding. So you don't have to show your true self (whatever that is) and risk falling in love, or risk trusting someone with your heart. Cuz if you don't give it to him in the first place, you can't lose it or give it up.
As an aside: I do have a problem with the term "your true self," or "your real self." What we are is really a product of our past, our family upbringing, our culture, its values and mores, etc. Our personalities are informed by these things. And we value glamour to an extent, and that's not a crime... So I don't think pretending to be an actress in bed is necessarily bad. Or pretending to be a mean nun who slaps her man around, that's not bad either. And you don't always have to share with your partner what you are up to, who you're pretending to be. Some like to know, some don't. As long as you are in the moment and pleasing each other, that's the goal...
But Roo's man wants to know what you're up to, and that's actually very nice. Maybe if you shared that image you have of yourself as a vamp - who she is, what she looks like, how she behaves, etc. - he would be more open to what you are doing. Maybe you LIKE to pretend. And that's OK. Say it again: that's OK. However, if you want to drop that because you and he both think it's a facade, or a wall between you, then you should, by all means, try to come up and out of that.
And it's all just a game... If we could see that and try to live that ideal, it would take a lot of the pressure to perform off us, and off our partners. Forced intimacy doesn't lead anywhere, and for Kat, that's something your hub should know. That's not what is going to make you feel turned on. You'll feel more able to respond to him if he courts you, if he takes you to dinner and pours you a glass of wine.
Or how 'bout making dinner FOR you? That's always a turn-on for me, as a single mother who HAS to cook every night, when someone else makes it (or breakfast, too!), I am just pleased as punch that he wants to please me. My therapist says that a man LOVES it when you tell him what you want him to do to please you, because by god, he'll try really hard to do it. She hates making generalizations, too, but she says it's a man thing: give 'im directions, and he'll go down that road. And if he does, and it's what you wanted, you will melt, I guarantee you. And that's what's necessary for good sex - you, the woman, has to feel courted and pleased and melted.
We should keep the conversation going... I love talking about sex (if you haven't noticed...) with real women. I know you can work these things out, if you love each other and take the time.
more anon,
Wendy
Posted by Roo on May 17, 2002, at 9:52:53
In reply to Re: more on sexuality and intimacy, posted by wendy b. on May 16, 2002, at 13:44:19
Wendy--I posted a longer response to you yesterday
and I don't know where it went....don't have much time
to talk b/c I'm at work. I just wanted to thank you
for such a wonderful response! I printed it out and am
keeping it as a reminder....Thank you so much!
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2002, at 2:21:36
In reply to Re: more on sexuality and intimacy, posted by wendy b. on May 16, 2002, at 13:44:19
> We should keep the conversation going... I love talking about sex (if you haven't noticed...) with real women.
I hope this isn't too off-topic. I just want to plug a new book from someone I know:
Great Sex for Moms :
Ten Steps to Nurturing Passion While Raising Kids
by Valerie Davis Raskin
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743212657/drbobsvirte00-20Bob
Posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 5:24:33
In reply to Re: Great Sex for Moms, posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2002, at 2:21:36
Posted by NancyLee on May 18, 2002, at 7:27:23
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 5:24:33
I dont know why I am glad the subject of female sexuality has been broached. It is a large part of our lives as we are sexual beings.
We have our menses every month other animals have only certain times of the year when they have "heat". That means we are more receptive to sex all the time.
Why Shocked?
I have been in a monogamous relationship for over 20 years and I am really trying to put that part of our lives back together. I feel like a big piece of the puzzle is missing for us when this goes awry for any reason. That is why I brought up sex and how it relates to me.....and trying to get positive feedback on it. It was scary for me to do that but it really has helped......peace & love
Posted by wendy b. on May 18, 2002, at 13:49:06
In reply to Re: Great Sex for Moms, posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2002, at 2:21:36
After perusing the edtorial comments on Amazon, also think this is probably a great book for non-moms, too (i.e., anybody who's been in a relationship for a number of years)...
Thanks, Bob, so typically thoughtful of you...
Wendy
Posted by Zo on May 19, 2002, at 22:06:05
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked., posted by NancyLee on May 18, 2002, at 7:27:23
Sorry, I should put up a sign for newbies: Zo's deadpan subject lines. Something like that. ;o)Welcome!!
Zo
Posted by NancyLee on May 19, 2002, at 22:12:24
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » NancyLee, posted by Zo on May 19, 2002, at 22:06:05
Okay I am advised, you cant see this but I am sticking out my tongue waggling my fingers behind my ears and saying naaa naaaa........LOve
Posted by IsoM on May 20, 2002, at 1:46:36
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » Zo, posted by NancyLee on May 19, 2002, at 22:12:24
...at Zo or Dr. Bob? He won't tell us what he's wearing underneath that waterfall.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 20, 2002, at 18:27:58
In reply to Re: Great Sex for Moms, posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2002, at 2:21:36
Thanks for supporting the topic!!
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 20, 2002, at 18:29:58
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » NancyLee, posted by Zo on May 19, 2002, at 22:06:05
Deadpan lines...
I think we all need little personality quips next to our names. Zo - deadpan humor; kk - i ahve no idea...; dinah - very literal...
so newbies do get a taste of where we're coming from. and of course, they can also have quips.
- kk
Posted by Dr. Valerie Raskin on May 20, 2002, at 18:44:14
In reply to Re: Great Sex for Moms » Dr. Bob, posted by Krazy Kat on May 20, 2002, at 18:27:58
> Thanks for supporting the topic!!
Not to mention supporting my book! <vbg> Dr. Bob invited me to stop in and say hello. I hope the group doesn't mind.
I can't encourage you strongly enough to feel entitled to good medical information and support for dealing with the sexual side effects of psychotropic medications. Sexual issues are much more common than is generally acknowledged--close to 40 % of the unmedicated population has difficulty with low libido or other isseus of sexual dysfunction, and the drugs we psychiatrists prescribe all too often make things very much worse.
As one of the posts noted, often times when men have a sexual side effects of SSRI's, etc, they can more readily ask for advice, because they can focus on the function. "Doctor, things don't work" is often an easier thing to say in a quick med check than, "It isn't fun anymore." Women who can't climax because of drugs have to have a more difficult discussion: the pleasure is gone, but ability to have intercourse isn't impaired. In a society in which women's sexual pleasure is still highly taboo, that can be intimidating. But be brave! There are medical interventions that often help.
One of the things I really like about this thread is the discussion about non-medical ways to overcome sexuality problems, whether they're caused by drugs or caused by life circumstances. Making sex more interesting, taking more time, and then more time, and using fantasy, vibrators, and whatever spice suits your fancy are all ways to deal with the sexual doldrums. It's said that the biggest human sex organ is the mind, and I agree.
Best to all!
Valerie Davis Raskin, M.D.
Posted by NancyLee on May 21, 2002, at 5:27:57
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » Zo, posted by Krazy Kat on May 20, 2002, at 18:29:58
Gee thanks for being willing to let new people participate! Just how long are we "NEWBIES" I have always found that offensive like rookie. If this is that tightknit see ya
Posted by Dinah1 on May 21, 2002, at 8:33:48
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » Krazy Kat, posted by NancyLee on May 21, 2002, at 5:27:57
Hi Nancy,
Dr. Bob recently added a couple of boards for "old-timers" which led to many discussions of old-timers and newbies. I think if you'll look at the archives, you'll find that Krazy Kat was all for inclusion and in fact was opposed to the new boards for that very reason. So I'm quite certain that she meant nothing negative or exclusionary in her post, because Krazy Kat just doesn't feel that way. It was just an extension of the previous discussion. I think you'll find that everyone is welcome here on Psycho-Social-Babble.
So welcome, Nancy Lee!!
(And I'm sure I should have let Krazy Kat answer for herself. Sorry Krazy Kat.)
Posted by jane d on May 21, 2002, at 10:11:53
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » Krazy Kat, posted by NancyLee on May 21, 2002, at 5:27:57
NancyLee
Tightknit, yes. Closed to newcomers, no.
I think Zo and KK were just worried that you had been accidentally offended because you might not be familiar with Zo's posting style. I thought her suggesting that she was shocked was funny given her previous posts and I wasn't sure whether you got the joke or not (at least until you stuck your tongue out :) ).
Jane
PS. I never liked the term Newbies either but I guess I don't hear it anymore.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 21, 2002, at 10:31:27
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » NancyLee, posted by Dinah1 on May 21, 2002, at 8:33:48
no, dinah, thanks, you it just right. it's amazing to me how i offend when i don't mean to at all.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 21, 2002, at 10:36:12
In reply to Re: I. Am. Shocked. » Krazy Kat, posted by NancyLee on May 21, 2002, at 5:27:57
Nancy:
Sorry to have caused any misunderstanding. I meant it as another humorous post, and could not have foreseen that "newbies" would be an offensive word.
Dinah and Jane explained it perfectly.
This board(s) is quite well monitored by Dr. Bob - he catches a lot of potentially abusive posts. So you should feel safe here in general.
I, however, am not going to go back to worrying about every word i type, so if you have trouble with my posts, you might just want to avoid them.
Newcomers are very welcome - they add new life and different perspectives to the board. And, of course, I was a newcomer once.
- kk
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 21, 2002, at 10:37:39
In reply to Re: more on sexuality and intimacy, posted by Roo on May 17, 2002, at 9:52:53
on all of this, roo? can you come to chat sometime? it's easier to discuss there for me...
- kk
Posted by Dinah1 on May 21, 2002, at 10:55:19
In reply to any new thoughts... » Roo, posted by Krazy Kat on May 21, 2002, at 10:37:39
It is long overdue. And it is a very important topic. There is absolutely no reason not to discuss it publicly. And I'm sure there are many people who are getting a lot of benefit from reading it, even if they aren't posting.
I haven't posted myself, because frankly any participation on my part would not be much of a contribution. :(
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 21, 2002, at 11:12:19
In reply to I would love to see this thread continue here., posted by Dinah1 on May 21, 2002, at 10:55:19
I agree, Dinah - you're right. It should continue here.
Perhaps it can continue on both...
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 21, 2002, at 11:14:26
In reply to I would love to see this thread continue here., posted by Dinah1 on May 21, 2002, at 10:55:19
to keep it going. the karma sutra - any experience there? we have a book, and it seems like a very loving and respectful way to approach sex.
BUT, I cannot relax enough to try it! Someone said, I believe it was WEndy, that she likes to take her time during sex. I am just the oppostite - I want it over toot-sweet.
- kk
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