![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by shadows721 on April 22, 2004, at 22:26:33
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
"WE started off with a great example. I had a couple of short bits of good news, and then I said WE had some choices about what to talk about (and I listed them)."
It's not WE had some choices. It's YOU. What did you "feel" you needed to talk about? It's fine to bring in a list of things you need to talk about, but the list is just for you. The focus is on what you need. I think that's what he meant by saying he just wants you to talk about what you feel. Maybe, he thinks you are bringing in the list for him.
"Why is it that I can't seem to figure out how to *DO* this therapy thing? Why am I always doing it the wrong way - even when I am trying my hardest to follow his directions? Why does it feel like I just can't win?"
Therapy isn't like school. There's no passing or failing. There's no strict instructions. There's no perfect way to "do" therapy. Therapy is about being yourself and bringing into therapy what really needs to be covered for you.
It's appears to me that it is you that doesn't understand what he is saying. I think he does understand you. It looks like you are trying to appease or receive his approval. Also, it appears that you are punishing yourself by saying you are failing with him.
I don't know why, but I get a feeling here. I think this guy is reminding you of a parent or a teacher that couldn't be pleased. Think about that. Does it fit? Was there a person in your past that you tried to do things just right and still was critized? Did you feel that they never understood you?
You aren't doing anything wrong. It seems you are trying to therapy "right" for the t and not for you. This is all about you. What brought you into therapy? Is that being addressed? Where are your feelings? Are they being acknowledged by you? Are you allowing yourself to show emotion in t or do you just analyze yourself? Do you feel safe with this t in expressing painful emotions and/or memories? Shift you focus off of being the "perfect" client and focus on what do you need to help you with what brought you into therapy?
As for reading and re-reading your posts, does that make you "feel" better to do that? If it does, that's okay.
Maybe an issue you have is really about trying to please people or meeting their needs and it's foreign to you to meet your own. Focusing on what you need is new territory. You will get the hang of it. Just let go of trying to say everything right and doing things right. Just be your uniquely beautiful self. Maybe next time, don't go in with a script or a list, just go in an talk about what problems brought you initial into therapy. Also, I get the feeling that you are unconfortable in this situation where the center of attention is you, your feelings, and your issues.
What do you think?
Posted by Racer on April 22, 2004, at 23:21:00
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
I can't offer anything useful, but I feel the same way a lot, if that helps.
My new therapist said on Monday that I seemed depressed to her. You think? I realize it's only been a dozen sessions, but you think maybe she'd get the idea I was there for a reason, right? {{sigh}} At least she did figure it out, I'm holding on to that as hope.
Maybe there's hope for all of us? Don't hold me to that, it's just one theory out of many.
Posted by pegasus on April 22, 2004, at 23:44:26
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
Posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 7:31:54
In reply to Re: Not being understood, posted by shadows721 on April 22, 2004, at 22:26:33
*** Thanks, Shadows, you are very right about many of these things.
> "WE started off with a great example. I had a couple of short bits of good news, and then I said WE had some choices about what to talk about (and I listed them)."
>
> It's not WE had some choices. It's YOU. What did you "feel" you needed to talk about? It's fine to bring in a list of things you need to talk about, but the list is just for you. The focus is on what you need. I think that's what he meant by saying he just wants you to talk about what you feel. Maybe, he thinks you are bringing in the list for him.*** I know that it is my choice. I didn't ask him to choose. I just wanted him to know what the big picture looked like to me before we got into the details. I think I would feel better about this if he *never* seemed to have an agenda. The other day we had a rough session, and the next day I went in and started talking about my daughter and my dogs. He immediately interrupted me and asked something about the previous session. Granted, I was avoiding the topic... But yesterday there *was* another topic that I thought was pretty significant, and I thought he should know about it. I guess in some way I was trying to prove that I *wasn't* avoiding the previous session's topic - while trying to give him the option of deciding that my newer topic should be tabled for the previous one if he wanted.
>
> "Why is it that I can't seem to figure out how to *DO* this therapy thing? Why am I always doing it the wrong way - even when I am trying my hardest to follow his directions? Why does it feel like I just can't win?"
>
> Therapy isn't like school. There's no passing or failing. There's no strict instructions. There's no perfect way to "do" therapy. Therapy is about being yourself and bringing into therapy what really needs to be covered for you.
>
*** Yes, you can tell me this as many times as you would like. And I will tell it to other people, too. But when he says "The way that you are thinking about this doesn't look like it is going to be helpful for you", my gut says "You did it wrong". On a good day, I can follow that with "So let's try a different way next time" - but the "wrong" is still there. On a bad day I can't figure out any different way to try it next time - so I am "wrong" and "hopeless".> It's appears to me that it is you that doesn't understand what he is saying. I think he does understand you. It looks like you are trying to appease or receive his approval. Also, it appears that you are punishing yourself by saying you are failing with him.
*** Yes, I don't understand what he is saying. I keep trying to do what he wants (talk about feelings instead of being intellectual), but I obviously still don't know what he is saying. I am not so much trying to gain his approval as I am trying to follow his direction. I think I should follow his direction because I've been doing it "my" way for 47 years and it hasn't worked very well. So I'm trying to do it differently - not to make him happy, but in hopes that it will work better for me. Am I punishing myself for "failing"? I am continually frustrated that I can't understand his direction enough to follow it. I have usually been pretty succeessful in accomplishing things - I'm not very experienced in not understanding. I think that my overall response is frustration (and waning patience).
>
> I don't know why, but I get a feeling here. I think this guy is reminding you of a parent or a teacher that couldn't be pleased. Think about that. Does it fit? Was there a person in your past that you tried to do things just right and still was critized? Did you feel that they never understood you?*** Yes, my dad. We talk about this all the time.
>
> You aren't doing anything wrong. It seems you are trying to therapy "right" for the t and not for you.*** But MY way doesn't produce the desired result.
>This is all about you. What brought you into therapy? Is that being addressed?
*** Much of my issue has to do with not being able to handle being wrong or criticized.
>Where are your feelings? Are they being acknowledged by you? Are you allowing yourself to show emotion in t or do you just analyze yourself?
*** Feelings are a fairly foreign concept. I really am trying to find them and understand them and talk about them. I show emotion all the time in therapy - and am continually overwhelmed by it.
>Do you feel safe with this t in expressing painful emotions and/or memories?
*** Yes. He accepts what I say. But I also am concerned that I will talk about something painful and he'll say "Hmmm, that is painful for you, but I don't think that it is particularly relevant for where your therapy needs to go"
>Shift you focus off of being the "perfect" client and focus on what do you need to help you with what brought you into therapy?
*** What I THINK I need has not been helpful in the past. So I believe I need to try a different way. So I'm trying to figure out what a different way might be - and looking to him to give me ideas. Is that trying to be the "perfect" client?? If so, then I really am at a loss to know what I *should* be doing.
>
> As for reading and re-reading your posts, does that make you "feel" better to do that? If it does, that's okay.
>
> Maybe an issue you have is really about trying to please people or meeting their needs and it's foreign to you to meet your own. Focusing on what you need is new territory. You will get the hang of it. Just let go of trying to say everything right and doing things right. Just be your uniquely beautiful self.*** I *WAS* my uniquely beautiful self for 38 years. It was not successful.
>Maybe next time, don't go in with a script or a list, just go in an talk about what problems brought you initial into therapy.
*** I have made SO much progress on this - I used to rehearse the whole session beforehand. Now I try to have a topic, but not to have hashed through the topic in advance. I went into therapy 9 years ago, that was another lifetime.
>Also, I get the feeling that you are unconfortable in this situation where the center of attention is you, your feelings, and your issues.
>
> What do you think?*** Correct again. I don't want to be the center of attention because then I run the risk of finding out that I'm doing it *wrong*. Sigh.
Thank you, Shadows. You are very insightful. I think that you do understand what my basic issue is. I think that I understand the issue, too. What I don't understand is what to do about it.
Posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 7:32:53
In reply to (((fallsfall))) (nm), posted by pegasus on April 22, 2004, at 23:44:26
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2004, at 8:09:21
In reply to Re: Not being understood » shadows721, posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 7:31:54
> But when he says "The way that you are thinking about this doesn't look like it is going to be helpful for you", my gut says "You did it wrong".
Could it be that this is his non-CBT approach way of saying a very CBT statement about challenging dysfunctional thoughts rather than a criticism of your way of doing therapy? It sort of sounds like something my therapist would say to that end.
> *** Yes. He accepts what I say. But I also am concerned that I will talk about something painful and he'll say "Hmmm, that is painful for you, but I don't think that it is particularly relevant for where your therapy needs to go"
>Has he ever said that?
I think it does take a while to understand another person, even for a therapist. The other day my therapist restated my thought in a way that neither of us had ever done, and surprised me by how well he *got* it. But that took a loooong time.
Posted by shadows721 on April 23, 2004, at 10:43:57
In reply to Re: Not being understood » shadows721, posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 7:31:54
It sounds like to me you really have made a tremendous about work on yourself through therapy. I am so happy for you. You appear really honest about yourself with others.
I hope that I am not touching on too sensitive of topic, but I am just sharing to help you. You mentioned that your Dad is the one that critized you. I am guessing that this male therapist is reminding you of him. This isn't a bad thing at all. It is helpful for you to see that even though you got critized in the past. It did not make you into a "bad" person (i.e, a failure). I think the trying to do thinks right in t is really about feeling you weren't right in your father's eyes. A child feels if I can be perfect then they will love me they way I want to be loved. The key to therapy is sharing the pain and "feelings" you experienced from your relationship with your Dad. You were and still are a good person with or without his approval. Unconsciously, the child part is still saying, "No, I wasn't right." This is where the really treatment begins. It's uncovering what the child part of you really needs to hear from you over and over again - "You are perfect just the way you are. It doesn't matter what people say or do. You are a wonderful child and I love you just the way you are." Also, I think this feeling of not doing things "right" in t are the feelings you had growing up. It was like no matter what I do - It's not right or I am not right.
Hope, I haven't stepped to far and I hope that I didn't upset you. I just think you are so close to really getting what you need from t. After all, it's a self discover that you were okay all along. It's was other's persceptions that weren't realistic and they past on their pain to another generation. So, then, you will find you don't care if people critize. It's there problem how they see something. You will know that you are okay just the way you are and you always were.
It's not that your not being understood today. It's that you were not understood an seen as you really were from a critical parent. This is being played out over again in other relationships. You have the power to see the truth now.
Caring thoughts for you.
Posted by noa on April 23, 2004, at 11:18:27
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
FF,
From what you've described, it would feel to me like he was giving me conflicting messages. On the one hand, he is saying, "there is no RIGHT way to do therapy--go ahead, take risks, be spontaneous, you are in charge, etc. etc." but on the other hand, he does actually respond by CORRECTING you. He tells you to say anything and then when you say you were upset about the previous session, he says he doesn't understand why you were upset.He also seems to have made an assumption, incorrectly, that you were asking him to choose the topic. To me, you were just needing to let him know all of the things on your mind first before talking about the thing you prioritized as being the most important to use therapy for that day. Ok, so maybe your long term goal is to be more spontaneous in social situations. But right now, you have a lot of improtant things you want him to know and want to make the best use of therapy, which afterall is not the run of the mill social situation--it is a valuable resource that is also limited and that you are paying for. If he wants to comment on the fact that you prepared ahead by listing and prioritizing, I would find it hurtful to me if such comments were to tell me not to do that. It could be helpful if my therapist were to observe how I prepare and respect that this is the way I am thinking about and organizing my problems and what I need help with and help me talk about how that helps me. Maybe in the long run I'd want to be more spontaneous, but at least for now, if this is my style then there are probably good reasons for it and I would hate it if my therapist tried to tell me to stop doing it.
As for the previous session, being upset, his not understanding---did he say it in an empathic way, like he wanted to try to understand better what had upset you? Was he saying that he hadn't realized how upset you were (are you someone who is good at hiding your upset from him and he hadn't realized it) and would like to understand it better? Or was he disagreeing with you that there was something to be upset about?
Is he the kind of therapist that can own up to his part of what is going on (like, "oh, now I see...when I said this, now I can understand how that might have come across to you as that.....")?
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2004, at 11:36:20
In reply to Re: Not being understood » fallsfall, posted by noa on April 23, 2004, at 11:18:27
Posted by DaisyM on April 23, 2004, at 12:13:28
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
>>>Today I alternated between being distressed (because I was "failing") and being silent (because I didn't want to do it "wrong" again). When I left the session I felt like I couldn't even be "wrong" the right way.
<<<I hate that internal screamer that says, "Say SOMETHING, anything! Find an insight! Say something intelligent! Say SOMETHING!" And the silence grows. I retreat into silence too at these really confusing moments. Typically it is because we have touched on something important or painful. My Therapist will give me space but he will also say, "tell me what you are feeling" and I can sometimes list the scared, confused, overwhelmed, etc. feelings I have. Just having words to say helps me. Because I, like you, think silence is wrong in therapy. (we actually had a conversation about silence on Tuesday). My Therapist tells me a lot that silence isn't bad or wrong, he would just like me to try to share the struggle with him so he can help me.
>>>He ended the session by saying that he had no idea what was upsetting me so much. That he wasn't aware of anything on Monday that we talked about that should have been that distressing. Tomorrow he wants me to explain what Monday's session was like for me in detail (gee, wasn't that what I was going to do today?) Great, now I have concrete proof that I'm not understood.
<<<I agree with everyone else. I think he might have been trying to understand what was so upsetting, not telling you NOT to be upset. I'm sorry you felt so misunderstood, but sweetie, this is not "concrete" proof of being wrong or bad. That is your interpretation of not being understood. If you apply logic to this, he would be wrong for not understanding you.
>>>If I have trouble being understood when I try to explain things in a comprehensive way, why does he think he's going to understand me better if I'm rambling and skipping around?
<<<OK, I'm going to say something you won't like. If you try rambling and skipping around, you just might hit on something real and surpassing. I believe that therapy is such an intense relationship that there is so much more going on than the exchange of words. Maybe he doesn't understand what is upsetting you because the words don't really match what his unconscious is sensing. I find that retreating into silence allows me to collect and edit my thoughts, but suppress what consciously or unconsciously I don't want to say. This could be happening with you. My Therapist has asked me to free associate a couple of times and I've always refused, so I'm well aware how frightening "rambling" can actually be. However, you might give it a try and see what happens. (this is definitely "do as I say, not as I do advice!")
>>>He's going to say that I was just trying to prove to him that I'm NOT understood. But I'm not going to give him that chance. I'm not going to get upset that he didn't understand anything I said. I am going to be patient and tomorrow I will go in and try to explain to him in a logical way why I was so upset on Monday.
<<<I agree with Dee. Try leaving your logic at the door. Again, so, so difficult. It is my primary defense weapon, yours too I know.
>>>Why is it that I can't seem to figure out how to *DO* this therapy thing? Why am I always doing it the wrong way - even when I am trying my hardest to follow his directions? Why does it feel like I just can't win?
<<<Because therapy is HARD! Because the deeper you go inside yourself, the more your unconscious pushes you back out. If your primary fear is being wrong or bad, then this would make sense that your unconscious would use this fear to create resistance. I would like to point out that getting better requires "break" throughs...not walk throughs, not glide throughs. You have to keep pounding at it. And you are.
Determined not to freak out tonight.
(((Falls)))
I'm sorry for what you are going through. You are not alone, we are all here for you. I hope today is better than yesterday and you can settle down for the weekend.
Daisy
Posted by crushedout on April 23, 2004, at 12:39:01
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
Posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2004, at 16:34:55
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
Just wanted to say ugh. Sorry you are having so much frustration right now. I hope next session goes better.
(((fallsfall)))
gg
Posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 18:59:33
In reply to Re: Not being understood, posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2004, at 16:34:55
Today's session was not good.
He thinks there might be some transference involved here. Gee, do you think?
I have inventory at the Library tomorrow, so I'm going to try to avoid thinking about this until that is done.
Thank you all for your responses - I will process them, but not right now.
He's going to a funeral on Monday. I won't see him until Thursday next week.
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2004, at 19:14:04
In reply to Today's session, posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 18:59:33
Sorry, Falls. Take care of yourself. And if you want to chat, I promise I won't bring up therapy.
Posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 19:31:40
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
((((((((((falls)))))))))))))
i'm sorry he's not understanding you right now. it sounds like he's not in tune with what you want and what you need.
but, you shouldn't think that you aren't doing therapy the right way dear. there is no right or wrong way to do therapy darling.
i haven't read the responses, so i'm not sure if this has been posted or not (and i'm sorry if i'm way off course here as well) but it seems like you really want validation from him. which is normal, as we all do. we want our therapists to validate that we are doing a good job, that we are doing good things, that we had a great session, etc. do you feel that he is holding out? perhaps if he made more of an effort to assure you that you were doing a good job in therapy, then you would be better able to communicate with him your feelings? it seems you get upest and then stay silent (as expalined) because you don't want to say something wrong or be misunderstood. maybe if he made more of an effort to validate your feelings and give you more positive reinforcement, you would be better understood?
you shouldn't be concerned with being wrong dear. i know, we are in therapy. and we want to please them, or we want them to be pleased with us. but you are doing great falls. you are doing beautifully falls. you are doing magnificent falls. i'm proud of you falls. you have helped me so much. and you are doing a wonderful job. not just in therapy dear, in life. i'm proud of you. babble is proud of you. everyone is proud of you doll. i mean it!
Posted by shadows721 on April 24, 2004, at 12:13:25
In reply to Today's session, posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 18:59:33
Thinking about you.
I don't know if this is what happened, but I will share something here. Looking back on my therapy, I realized that some of what I thought were my "bad" days in therapy were actually very enlightening days for me. They told me what I needed as a child, what triggers me, and what I still needed to work on myself. So when having a difficult therapy session, I will leave and ask -"What did I learn today about myself?"
Posted by crushedout on April 24, 2004, at 12:56:22
In reply to Today's session, posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 18:59:33
I'm sorry it didn't go well, falls. I hope you'll share more with us when you feel up to it.crushed
Posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2004, at 16:47:29
In reply to Re: Today's session » fallsfall, posted by crushedout on April 24, 2004, at 12:56:22
He started the session out by telling me that he would be out of town on Monday, so I wouldn't see him until Thursday. He was apologetic about having to cancel, and mumbled something about a funeral. He wanted me to know that he would be gone for a "good" reason. He knew I wouldn't like it, but I am a realist, and I know that he does have a life. He said that he didn't have any extra time on Tuesday or Wednesday - so at least he had looked at the options and tried to find a way to see me.
But he called me this morning (Sunday), and said that he would be flying home late afternoon on Monday, and that he could see me at 6. He sort of didn't even ask if I wanted to see him, or if I could - he didn't even ask how I was doing. So I really appreciate that he'll make the time to see me (usually 4PM is his last appointment, I think). He must have been thinking about me this weekend, that helps.
I've been doing OK. The inventory went really well yesterday, we did Juvenile non-fiction. So all we have left to do is Adult fiction - one more afternoon should do it. I've completely buried my issues with him (well, they peek out now and then, but I don't let them out). But I can start to let them back since I'll see him tomorrow.
What is happening is that I am having a major transference with him. I know it is transference because I had the same feelings with my old therapist. The theme is that I don't know what to do in therapy to get better. I don't trust my instincts (because they got me into this mess). My therapist won't tell me what to do (because this is therapy...) When he does suggest things (like "talk more about feelings, do not intellectualize everything"), I try really hard to do what he suggests. But he doesn't like what I try to do - it isn't right, it isn't enough. So, from my perspective, I don't know what to do, he won't tell me what to do, and no matter how hard I try what I do is wrong. And I believe that without "doing therapy right", I will never get better - so it is very much a matter of life or death for me.
Last Monday, I worked harder in therapy than I ever had before. I was trying to describe the struggle between my conscious and unconscious. Only very recently did I even get to the point where I could believe that I HAD an unconscious that could motivate my behavior (everyone else in the world has one, but somehow I believed that I was different!?!?). After an incredibly hard 40 minutes of trying to describe something that I was barely aware of he said "I don't think that the way you are thinking about this will be helpful".
Thursday I tried to explain to him why this was so devistating for me. But I tried to explain it HIS way (by describing feelings - more like free associating, instead of explaining it logically). At the end he said he had no idea why I was so upset. See, I did what he asked and it STILL wasn't right.
So Friday, I described logically what had gone on on Monday. I got fairly agitated and he told me I had to calm down. I had asked if we could check in 5 minutes before the session was up because I had to be able to function for Inventory this weekend. He summed things up by saying that he thought there was some transference going on, that it has something to do with my dad, that the magnitude of my reactions is completely out of proportion to what happened on Monday, that we needed to talk about the process (i.e. transference) rather than the content (i.e. unconscious motivation). I agreed with everything he said. I already knew that, but it hadn't occurred to me to tell him - beause I thought that he already knew it too?? I maintained that I *had* been talking about the process and he did agree with me (so I was doing what I was supposed to do, but it STILL wasn't right). At this point I was still incredibly upset and he wanted to calm me down so I could do the inventory. But I don't really know how to calm down that way. He ended up getting pretty frustrated with me and told me that when the session was about to end and he wasn't going to be able to see me for a while that I had to get my emotions under control - but he denied that I would need to intellectualize in order to do that. He wanted me to flip a switch and be able to just be fine for 6 days.
I think he felt guilty for cancelling my Monday session. I think that he honestly didn't know how upset I was on Monday (it was so obvious to me, and I didn't try to hide it at all, but I guess he was looking at the *content* on Monday and it *shouldn't* have flipped me out, so he assumed that it didn't). He has been quite skilled in helping me with a different transference reaction in the past, so now that he is focused on that I am hoping that we can make some progress.
The support and patience that you Babblers have given me has been really important. I do appreciate it.
Posted by Racer on April 25, 2004, at 17:13:47
In reply to Friday's session (long), posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2004, at 16:47:29
I don't really have anything helpful to contribute, but I'm doing Library things, too, this week and thought I'd tell you that. We moved four bookcases in our living/dining room. Three six feet high by three feet wide, one six feet high by four feet wide, all with two rows of books on each shelf. The non-fiction and genre fiction are all pretty much back on the shelves, but the fiction is still all over the floor -- and we'll run out of shelves way before we get the books back up there. We had had books on the tops, but we can't do that again until we buy some more bookends. It's a big job, and that's only the books downstairs...
About the therapy, I wonder if your therapist is hoping you'll stop trying to analyse so much and let him help you find the analysis after you've told him your feelings? I know that I often go in there with a sort of verbal essay: "well, this is how I feel now, because of that happening then, and this is what I need to do about it next..." rather than, "I feel [x]" Giving an oral presentation like that doesn't really help me, because if it did, I wouldn't need therapy at this point, right? So, I've got to learn to back off a little and express the feelings without having the answer already formed, you know? Could that be part of the trouble?
And believe me -- I do empathize with not feeling understood. I probably am hypervigilant about perceived betrayals, but I had one from my therapist this week, and it's really interfering with my hope muscles. I don't think I have transference issues with her, since I am suspicious and distrustful of her still, but it's doubly hard to take when it comes from someone I'm trying so very, very hard to be open with and trying to learn to trust.
Best wishes to us both, eh?
Posted by Aphrodite on April 25, 2004, at 17:47:27
In reply to Friday's session (long), posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2004, at 16:47:29
I am new here but have been following your posts, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in. I was a bit struck by the fact that he told you to "calm down" and that you needed to get your emotions under control after he told you that you're intellectualizing too much. Gosh, who could win under those circumstances?
I too am amazed how many times my T, who is wonderful and usually perceptive, doesn't see that I am very upset. It seems he doesn't notice when I need him to the most. It so obvious on our side of the office, like it is spilling out of our pores, but if you don't spell it out, draw a picture, or whatever, they don't get it. Therapists should have to be clairvoyant as well -- that would make things so much easier!
I guess during the next session you'll have to try to convey it again until he gets it. Good luck to you!
Posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2004, at 21:40:26
In reply to Re: Friday's session (long), posted by Racer on April 25, 2004, at 17:13:47
Yes, Racer, best wishes to both of us.
You are exactly right that he wants me not to have analyzed everything before I get there, and I really am doing much better with that. I probably have a ways to go, but the distance that I have come so far is amazing to me.
You say: "...it's doubly hard to take when it comes from someone I'm trying so very, very hard to be ..." Isn't that the truth! If we weren't working SO hard these things wouldn't be so devistating. But we ARE working hard, and we should get some credit just for working hard, shouldn't we?
Thanks for your post.
Posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2004, at 21:44:59
In reply to Re: Friday's session (long) » fallsfall, posted by Aphrodite on April 25, 2004, at 17:47:27
>I was a bit struck by the fact that he told you to "calm down" and that you needed to get your emotions under control after he told you that you're intellectualizing too much. Gosh, who could win under those circumstances?
Thank you! That was so validating for me.
I believe that now that he is aware of the transference that we will start to make progress. If you find a way to teach your therapist to be clairvoyant, please let me know. Maybe I can teach mine. Or maybe I'll just move so I can see yours!
Thanks for the support. Please jump in anytime!
Posted by shadows721 on April 25, 2004, at 23:00:34
In reply to Friday's session (long), posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2004, at 16:47:29
"What is happening is that I am having a major transference with him. I know it is transference because I had the same feelings with my old therapist."
This is very insightful on your part. Why not try and write down a list of what these two have in common. Compare them with your Dad. It appears that these two are doing something similiar.
Maybe it's that you feel unconsciously these two have given you mixed messages??? I mean he says use your feelings not intellect, so you do. Then, it's calm down. hmmm What the rat's behind are you supposed to do then?
Yes, I agree there is some transference, but not all of it. Maybe I am transferring here but this sounds insulting - "I don't think that the way you are thinking about this will be helpful". I would interpret it as he said my thinking isn't correct or I am not thinking right. It's his way of expressing himself that is triggering to me. Why couldn't he had said -"How is this helpful to you?" That's sound's less critical to me and would cause me to reflect.
Okay, now, I am going to share and experience here. I had a t do something similiar to this. I got really upset when talking about a horrendous memory. She interrupted and said to calm down. I told her it took 25 years for this memory to resurface and I am going to express my feelings anyway I damn well please. That's what I pay you to do so listen. So, keep your comments to yourself and just listen. Whew! I got that out of my system. This guy reminds me of a previous t.
Back to you. My personal opinion is that this guy is saying something or talking in such a way that is very triggering to you. It's triggering to me and I am not even there. I would interpret that I wasn't saying what he wanted to hear. Am I just transferring too? hmmmmmmm
Posted by antigua on April 26, 2004, at 8:47:36
In reply to Not being understood, posted by fallsfall on April 22, 2004, at 20:02:29
I don't think I really have anything new to add here, but I can relate to that feeling of not knowing what your T wants, especially a T that you've worked with, like and are compatible with. Sometimes I'll look at my T and not have a clue of what she's talking about. After 13 years, she can still bring up comments that are totally foreign to me. And it's more than my dysfunctional thinking. Honestly, sometimes I just give up and tell her I just don't get it and we put it aside until we can find a better way to communicate the issue.
Please try not to feel like you're doing it "wrong." You are who you are, and if your T doesn't get it, then maybe you need to keep on expaining. I can spend the whole hour trying to explain my feelings and my T still doesn't get it. I had another T (disastrous) for a while last year and I just didn't understand a word he said. He would tell me to quit intellectualizing, but since that's the only way I know how to be I still don't understand. I, too, feel much more comfortable when I've figured it out before I bring it up. Maybe it's just a matter of trust; I really don't trust ANYONE to open up the wounds in their presence. But that doesn't mean I'm doing therapy wrong, I refuse to believe it.
You sound like you know it's transference. Good luck, that means you have something to work with.
Best,
antigua
Posted by fallsfall on April 26, 2004, at 8:51:16
In reply to Friday's session ( Am I transfering too?), posted by shadows721 on April 25, 2004, at 23:00:34
Ah, yes, that is the question. You only hear my side, so it is tainted by my filters. So I think that you would see it the way I see it (which is through transference) - and if you would tend to the same type of transference, you would be in trouble!
There are things about his style that I wish were different. But there are also things about his style that I really like. And I do think that we continually make progress - painful, difficult progress, but progress none the less.
I could tell him what I don't like, what would make it easier for me. But he is adamant that he isn't going to change his style just because I'm supersensitive to criticism (which I am). But he also *has* started to qualify and explain his "critical" statements so that I won't hear them as so critical. I.e. "You need to talk more about feelings, which I know you have been doing" or "I'm not criticizing you, I think that you are feeling criticized [yes], but I am not criticizing you".
I think that he wasn't expecting the degree of pain and anger and frustration that I had on Friday. I feel like things got a little out of hand and he ended up reacting - where usually he is more in control of where we are going. And there was added pressure that I needed to function this weekend, and that he had cancelled the session on Monday. I'm hoping that he has pulled things together in his mind now, and that today's session will bring my emotions clearer into focus and provide some containment for them.
It is interesting to me that as much as I will complain about things that he does, I find it very hard to hear other people criticize him. I do tell him when he does things that I really don't like - he tends to be fairly defensive, but then does make subtle changes that show that he has heard me. I know he isn't perfect, but I still feel like I *need* him to be perfect. If he isn't at least awesomely good, then I am doomed to be depressed forever. I do realize that that is extreme. When I criticize him I can rationalize that I see him with my transferenced eyes. When others criticize him, I'm terrified that they are right. Babble helped me see that my old therapist wasn't helping me, and that was so extremely painful. I really don't want to do that again. And this guy really is helping me. Maybe this is how I learn to accept that he is grey - not perfect but not awful. I am trying to be more open to hearing criticism of him, but when I am in lots of pain I just don't seem to have the strength to hear it. I want to say that I want Babble to criticize him when it is warranted, but to understand that I may defend him or ignore the criticism because *I'm* not ready to hear it. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't *say* it. [Except for Dinah - your insight and opinion is so important to me that I'm still not ready to hear you criticize him. The stakes are too high with you. I think that I can't bear to be forced to choose between the two of you. Why do I feel that I would have to choose? Maybe because my world is still too black and white - I can't tolerate the ambiguity.]
Thanks for helping me to think about this.
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