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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 17, 2013, at 16:12:58
HI, Been treated for depression for over 30 years and recently came upon this dignosis and think it may be at the root of my depression.
Has anyone had experience with it and if it is treatable as an adult. I am unable to form relationships easily with others and project an independence which excludes bonded with others.
My mother is an extremely unfeeling person and was mentally very cruel when I was a child.
Thanks for any information anyone may have surrounding this condition and whether it is
worth investigating more time and energy with. I currently am seeing a therapist but wonder if there has to be a specialty in this discorder to treat it successfully.Thanks.
Star
Posted by alexandra_k on December 18, 2013, at 15:09:04
In reply to Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 17, 2013, at 16:12:58
I think it is probably more important that you work with someone who you feel able to form a relationship with who you can come to learn to trust to work through some of those issues. You might have more luck finding a therapist who is useful who says they specialize in avoidant attachment - though probably not likely. It isn't... a buzzword currently. Trauma... A lot of similar issues arising. Autistic spectrum is popular these days and the avoidance you talk about is fairly built into that.
Do you think your current therapist is a bit hopeless with respect to helping you? Not a good fit?
This one can be tricky... Tricky to know whether to go with your gut or whether you are doing your avoidant thing.
Can you see alternative therapists? Do some interviews... See a bit more about what else / who else is out there before making a decision?
Posted by baseball55 on December 19, 2013, at 20:27:48
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by alexandra_k on December 18, 2013, at 15:09:04
I read about attachment theory somewhere, several years ago -- secure attachment, anxious attachment, avoidant attachment. I was definitely in the avoidant attachment category. I fled from my mother from as early an age as I can remember. I developed this very hard, independent, self-reliant, edgy persona that left me mostly isolated.
What made me realize I needed to change was watching my daughter grow up. I was a good parent - did everything the opposite of my own parents -- and she was securely attached and went on to form secure friendships, relationships with teachers, other adults. She had this happy adolescence where I had been a mess. I began to think about my life and was overwhelmed by the whole thing.
I started seeing a therapist and that helped a lot. Of course, by that time, I was ready to change.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 14:27:48
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by baseball55 on December 19, 2013, at 20:27:48
Hi Baseball,
What has helped in therapy? I feel like I have no connections to people...I want relationships but don't know how to really have one. I'm afraid of having a boyfriend but very lonely as I was in my 20 year marriage. I'm so depressed and have been for more than 30 years but realize it may be related to the inability to bond. I never had kids to show me how it works. I just know my friendships and relationships are very superficial and I don't know how to show emotions or feelings. I'm just so afraid of living and seek out ways to end it since I don't think anything will change as I have been in this situation for so long and mostly on meds with lots of useless therapy.
I'm the one that came up with attachment disorder as one else did but it makes sense as my family is cold and indifferent and I don't remember any feelings of being loved or cherished as a child, then my sister dies at 16 and I was blamed for being "mean" to her.
I'm so confused about what I "have" but treatnebt with meds for depression hasn't worked and I'm not sure therapy can work as so much depends on the therapist and obviously no one has helped me get beyond the way I am emotionally an island with
no real relationships in my life. My divorce really put me in a very alone place but the feelings that should have existed in my marriage didn't so my husband walked after 20 years.I'm not sure is I should bother anymore...I'm old and tired.
Star
Posted by Twinleaf on December 22, 2013, at 15:20:25
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 14:27:48
I do believe there is hope even for the most painful situations. If you read any articles by Alan Schore or Beatrice Beebe, the most up-to-date ideas about healing attachment disorders are there. There are lists of therapists who work with them, and you might find that you live near one of them. There really is hope for situations like yours now, but I do thnk you will need a therapist who is well-trained in these new techniques. Do let me know if you are able to find anything useful, either online, or by inquiring in your community.
Posted by baseball55 on December 22, 2013, at 19:07:16
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 14:27:48
Wow, stragazer. I am so sorry for your pain. For me, therapy helped a lot - just acknowledging my life, which I had buried completely. But I had other supports. A long marriage, a teenaged daughter who was very together. I also had a drug and alcohol problem, so I started going to AA. That was incredibly helpful. It gave me a second chance to make friends and develop relationships outside of my daughter and husband.
If you have no addiction problems, then these twelve-step groups are not for you. But have you thought about/tried, group therapies? There are also support groups and on-line groups for people with depression, bipolar, etc. Reaching out to others provides hope and connection. I have also tried to do volunteer work. It's not so easy to find things in a big city, but if you live in a smaller area, you might find some happiness and connection volunteering at a food pantry or community health center -- something like that.
It's hard to do this on your own. You need supports. Something. Even if it's with people you can't really share your feelings with -- a hiking group or something. Getting out and interacting with people helps a lot.
Posted by baseball55 on December 22, 2013, at 19:16:07
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 14:27:48
> I'm not sure is I should bother anymore...I'm old and tired.
>
> StarI didn't get into therapy until I was 49. Old doesn't matter. Your life can be so much richer if you can change things, at any age.
But I understand the sentiment. I recently have had a crisis in my marriage and find myself feeling -- what's the point? I'm in my late 50's. It's all down hill from here.
I'm trying to fight this. In twelve step groups, people talk a lot about being of service, helping others. Yes, maybe you are unhappy and had a hard life with too little love and appreciation, but others have even harder lives. So trying to be of service to others who suffer greatly can make you feel more at peace.
Posted by baseball55 on December 22, 2013, at 19:20:44
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 14:27:48
I had a good experience in therapy. I realize not everybody does. I don't know why exactly. I was desperate. I was so disconnected. I felt completely alone, even though I had a husband and daughter. I had never had a close friend in my entire life.
I think I wanted to change so badly that I clung to my therapist for dear life. I knew that was my only hope. He was a good therapist, but I don't know if it was mostly him or mostly me and how desperate I felt.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 22, 2013, at 19:55:09
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder » stargazer2, posted by baseball55 on December 22, 2013, at 19:20:44
> I think I wanted to change so badly that I clung to my therapist for dear life. I knew that was my only hope. He was a good therapist, but I don't know if it was mostly him or mostly me and how desperate I felt.maybe you guys were a good fit.
for me... wanting to change didn't help me so much as learning to trust. reducing startle / fear.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 20:12:24
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by baseball55 on December 22, 2013, at 19:16:07
I'm a nurse and took care of people all of my life so I know how to do that very well. It still didn't help as I always felt that I was the one suffering, not them. Despite all of the years caring for others it didn't help me feel any better. I never had anyone ever care for me despite all the suffering I have had.
I know you are trying to help me feel better but I've reached an end point where there doesn't seem to be any way out using the ttypical routes I have already tried. I have nothing left to try.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 22, 2013, at 20:46:58
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 20:12:24
> Despite all of the years caring for others it didn't help me feel any better. I never had anyone ever care for me despite all the suffering I have had.
yeah. it would be nice to have a therapist who could care for you for a time. see if that experience could help you learn how to trust / learn how to develop relationships with people that are more meaningful for you.
this is something i'm still learning how to do...
what is up with your current therapist?
Posted by Twinleaf on December 22, 2013, at 21:14:10
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 20:12:24
But Star, there really are therapists who specialize in attachment problems now - I have one. Please don't give up without looking for one. It can make such a huge difference in how you feel about yourself.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2013, at 22:56:14
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 20:12:24
> I never had anyone ever care for me despite all the suffering I have had.
>
> I know you are trying to help me feel betterThe above struck me, and then I noticed the subject line, went back, and saw that you started this thread with:
> I am unable to form relationships easily with others and project an independence which excludes bonded with others.
Maybe this is something new? You're not projecting independence, and being cared for?
Bob
Posted by stargazer2 on December 23, 2013, at 8:16:37
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2013, at 22:56:14
I project, perhaps, an air of independence but in doing so that is typical of the avoidant attachment disorder. I am actally very dependent and independence is just a facade to keep people away.
I am so "independent" that I am verging on how to go on because I have no purpose in life, no need for others even though I know that is the reason most others are alive, right?
I'm not sure why I am alive anymore, it is the only thought that occupies my mind lately. This is how I always have felt and no amount of medication or therapy has convinced me that there is another choice left.
30 years of looking for an answer is no longer practical.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 23, 2013, at 11:29:31
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 23, 2013, at 8:16:37
No I'm not being cared for, have always cared for myself but lately have given up.
Avoidant Personality Disorder? Just read about this...looking for answers as to why I am the way I am and see if there is any help to change before I give up completely.
Posted by Ronnjee on December 23, 2013, at 14:15:49
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder/ Dr Bob, posted by stargazer2 on December 23, 2013, at 11:29:31
Posted by baseball55 on December 23, 2013, at 21:19:37
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder, posted by stargazer2 on December 23, 2013, at 8:16:37
> I project, perhaps, an air of independence but in doing so that is typical of the avoidant attachment disorder. I am actally very dependent and independence is just a facade to keep people away.
>
> I am so "independent" that I am verging on how to go on because I have no purpose in life, no need for others even though I know that is the reason most others are alive, right?That was my problem too. I projected this air of being independent and self-reliant and not needing anything. It cut me off from people. I didn't ask for things or share anything or allow myself to be vulnerable. Even with my husband and daughter, I took care of them rather then asking them to take care of me. I didn't even know what being cared for would feel like.
I'm so sorry you are feeling so desperate and exhausted. I hope you can hang on and find some love and care and peace in your life.
Posted by baseball55 on December 23, 2013, at 21:28:48
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder/ Dr Bob, posted by stargazer2 on December 23, 2013, at 11:29:31
> No I'm not being cared for, have always cared for myself but lately have given up.
>
> Avoidant Personality Disorder? Just read about this...looking for answers as to why I am the way I am and see if there is any help to change before I give up completely.I think if you had a avoidant attachment as a child, you would learn, as I did, to not need things from others. To not need anything that you couldn't give yourself. Becoming attached to my husband and daughter kept me going for a number of years. But my inability to ask for anything for myself led them to take me for granted and eventually I fell apart.
What helped me was finding a therapist to whom I became deeply attached and who made me feel cared for and heard for the first time in my life.
But like I said before, I don't know how much was about how good a therapist he is (and he is very good) and how much was about my desperation to be cared for.
When I first started seeing him, I continued to project this persona of independence and strength and to minimize my distress. He called me on this and I began to cry. I told him I was afraid that no one would take care of me. I was afraid that no one would care about me. I was afraid that no one would care what happened to me.
I didn't even realize I felt this until I said it to him.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 23, 2013, at 22:47:04
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder » stargazer2, posted by baseball55 on December 23, 2013, at 21:19:37
> > I project, perhaps, an air of independence but in doing so that is typical of the avoidant attachment disorder. I am actally very dependent and independence is just a facade to keep people away.
i am like this, too.
i don't get attached very easily... and some people i just can't seem to attach to... but when i actually do attach to someone i am a lot scared about just how small and frightened and needy and dependent and... helpless i feel.
i don't like feeling like that... so mostly i don't like to get attached. a lot of the time i feel that there is something wrong with me that i can't feel attached to people... like some therapists i've worked with, who were nice and all... but i just didn't quite click properly with them...
i found what baseball is saying... about attaching to a therapist. about feeling those feelings with them in... hopefully... what is a safe environment.
i think there is something in... well.. this idea of developmental delay or something like that. taking the time to feel those dependent feelings in an environment of safety and... seeing how those feelings develop and grow over time.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 25, 2013, at 13:47:27
In reply to Re: Avoidant Attachement Disorder/ Dr Bob » stargazer2, posted by baseball55 on December 23, 2013, at 21:28:48
Thank you BB.
I spend every waking minute evaluating how I relate to others and how they relate to me. All I know is that I don't share much interest or emotion and I can barely understand what they are saying either. It is almost that I minimize anything others ask for and wonder why everyone is so needy. I have very superifical interactions with people and never express anger, hurt or frustration.
It seems as though my brain is defective in knowing how to relate to others. I have no memory for anything in the past and say "i can't remember" constantly. I have sat in horror movies and fallen asleep, have no recollection of books I have read or moivies I have seen. My mind is not focused or able to stay on topic fo long. I'm not sure if the ECT made this worse but I think it did.
The only thing my brain registers is depression, and a lack of connection to others. I do not have good friends and have no idea how to be close to others. It has been a lifelong affliction, starting as shyness as a child.
This is the end of the thread.
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