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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 17:22:10
I'm going to try not to pick, scratch, hit, cut or hold my breath.
So far, I have not done any of that. Not even this morning when I was putting on makeup or bandaids.
Jost inspired me to make my living area safe- removing tweezers and clippers, and scissors, and pins, and pointy things. Kind of like packing my carry-on bag, now that I think of it.
Jost also convinced me to take out all the bulbs from my vanity mirror, and adjust my grooming routine to include application of band-aids, ointment and no magnifying mirrors or close-up applications.
Thanks Jost. Already, I have caught myself a dozen times absentmindedly walking into the bathroom to flick on the extra brightlights. When they don't come on, I catch myself- hey! wait! I'm not in here for a good reason!
1) self-awareness: can't change a habit if you don't even notice when you are engaging in it
2) pre-awareness: learn to recognize the feeling immediately before I engage in habit
3) inhibit: don't do that bad thing
4) direction: find a new direction to engage yourself. Maybe like playing with a piece of beach glass, or washing dishes, or babbling, or playing violin?
hope I don't mess up too many times
-Li
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on September 30, 2006, at 9:07:51
In reply to trying to keep SI promise to myself **trigger**, posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 17:22:10
This is quite controversial, but I find SI rather a good way to deal with *very* painful emotions. I, personally, don't find anything wrong with it. But then again with me, it has never got out of hand and I only have short bouts of it when I'm very bad.
Of course, others may SI and decide that they want to stop and its a bad thing for them. Of course, I respect that.
But I just want to say that I don't think SI is all bad, and for me personally, it can be a helpful way to avoid a build up of emotions that could lead to something more danergous, eg a suicide attempt or running away.
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 30, 2006, at 9:37:55
In reply to Re: trying to keep SI promise to myself **trigger*, posted by Meri-Tuuli on September 30, 2006, at 9:07:51
Yes,
I have felt that way before. That is how I have justified my little hangnail pickings and stuff like that over the years.The problem for me is that the SI is becoming more and more of a daily ritual. Occupying at least 30-60 minutes a day on a normal day. And on an abnormal day, well... I cannot see that as some adaptive mechanism. If I'm trying to numb myself and keep me going on a steady stream of beta-endorphins, well, I might as well get a script from the pdoc, and save myself some scarring or infections, huh?
Maybe the SI on an abnormal day is seen as preferable to drinking myself into a stupor, going on a walk in the middle of the night in my urban neighborhood, attempting suicide or whatever other "escape" I can fathom. That's entirely possible. I wish it didn't have to come to that.
Thanks for your input, though, Meri-Tuuli. I'm happy to hear from Finland. Are you feeling finnish right now? enjoying the last few days after the Autumn equinox?
-Li
Posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 10:32:02
In reply to trying to keep SI promise to myself **trigger**, posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 17:22:10
Those sound like immensely healthy ways of coping. :)
I promised my therapist not to SI, and except for extreme cases I generally keep my promise (even when I'm mad at him).
But I've generally substituted very unhealthy ways of coping. I commend you.
I know you can do it.
Posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 11:59:36
In reply to Re: trying to keep SI promise to myself **trigger* » Lindenblüte, posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 10:32:02
Yup my cuticles are a mess I pick at them constantly. And I commend you highly for your coping mechanisms Li Love Phillipa
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 30, 2006, at 18:32:35
In reply to Re: trying to keep SI promise to myself **trigger*, posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 11:59:36
okay, it's been 24 hours since my original promise to myself.
confession. I have removed a flake of dried skin from my face. and a very old scab that was tiny and ready to come off. a little nibble of one cuticle must have happened when I was on the phone a while ago and i just now noticed it :(
other than that. pretty good.
thank you all for your support.
-Li
Posted by Jost on September 30, 2006, at 23:31:14
In reply to update 24 hrs later SI **trigger*, posted by Lindenblüte on September 30, 2006, at 18:32:35
I'm glad you took my advice (if I do say so myself..if I may be allowed to), because I hate to think of you picking at your face, which I know will hurt later.
And your cuticles. I went through a spate of the cuticle thing-- I never thought of it as SI, but maybe it was.
A couple of my cuticles never recovered. I remember it felt good while I did it, but hurt so much later. And now I look at them and think, grrrr-- why did you do that?
I know sometimes I start looking at something and get transfixed by the awfulness of it and necessity of doing something-- which often aggravates the situation.
It's so fascinating to hear that you find yourself going into the bathroom and trying to put the light on. Do you ever know what stimulated you to go in that time? Interesting also that the lower lights are like an alert that you're doing something, which you might not noticed until you were doing it, when you don't think about it so much as get invested in the immediate satisfaction of doing it.
Anyway, I don't want Linden to be having scars on her face. Not at all.
Which doesn't mean that I think SI is bad, in the sense of immoral, only inthe sense that it somehow hurts when I hear that someone has done it. But I do know that when it's done, it doesn't necessarily hurt, but can feel somehow good. So I'll try to remember that, too.
Jost
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 1, 2006, at 10:07:11
In reply to Re: update 24 hrs later SI **trigger* » Lindenblüte, posted by Jost on September 30, 2006, at 23:31:14
> I'm glad you took my advice (if I do say so myself..if I may be allowed to), because I hate to think of you picking at your face, which I know will hurt later.
Your advice was REALLY REALLY good. Please feel proud of it.
Jost- it's bad. I have a couple of permanent scars :(> And your cuticles. I went through a spate of the cuticle thing-- I never thought of it as SI, but maybe it was.
>
> A couple of my cuticles never recovered. I remember it felt good while I did it, but hurt so much later. And now I look at them and think, grrrr-- why did you do that?I've been doing this since forever, but at some point I stopped chewing my nails down to nubbins. I KNOW i can do that, I just don't understand why the cuticle chewing is SO hard to kick.
> I know sometimes I start looking at something and get transfixed by the awfulness of it and necessity of doing something-- which often aggravates the situation.
I've heard of these things as being almost like an instinctive grooming thing. When I see my husband's raggedy hangnails, I want to get started on him too, or if he has a zit on his back... It's all I can do to stop myself. I'm such a freak. I really like the part of it that goes like this "find a scratchy/flaky/bumpy bit. ATTACK!. Now it's all better" But that's only the tiny bit of the story. Most people have a bit of this. Almost everyone is annoyed by a chipped nail or a hangnail or a scab. That's not pathological. But I've turned it into this whole OCD routine several times a day. Worse still, it gets REALLY bad when I couple THIS with some SI instincts.
> It's so fascinating to hear that you find yourself going into the bathroom and trying to put the light on. Do you ever know what stimulated you to go in that time? Interesting also that the lower lights are like an alert that you're doing something, which you might not noticed until you were doing it, when you don't think about it so much as get invested in the immediate satisfaction of doing it.
>
> Anyway, I don't want Linden to be having scars on her face. Not at all.
>
> Which doesn't mean that I think SI is bad, in the sense of immoral, only inthe sense that it somehow hurts when I hear that someone has done it. But I do know that when it's done, it doesn't necessarily hurt, but can feel somehow good. So I'll try to remember that, too.
>It's all good Jost. I don't even understand 100%. I know you don't judge me for this bad habit, and I'm impressed that you want to get involved, even when it's something you might not completely "get". Thanks. It's nice to know you care. :)
I need to get an Rx though, for the really bad crisis times when I really don't give a crap about doing serious damage, for when I will gladly suffer some scars just to keep the terrible memories at bay.
-Li
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 1, 2006, at 23:19:02
In reply to Re: update 24 hrs later SI **trigger* » Jost, posted by Lindenblüte on October 1, 2006, at 10:07:11
bad. could have been worse. but bad.
INSERT GIGANTIC FROWNIE FACE HERE.
I injured the crouton.
(hangs head in shame)
now go away. I'm bad again.
Posted by muffled on October 2, 2006, at 11:50:35
In reply to :o( :o( :o( :'o( :o( » Lindenblüte, posted by Lindenblüte on October 1, 2006, at 23:19:02
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 2, 2006, at 12:22:46
In reply to Whats a crouton? (nm) » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on October 2, 2006, at 11:50:35
hmm. that is difficult to articulate.
It is a word for a name of a friend.
A friend who cannot always watch over the skin on the inside of my left forearm
I may occasionally use a marker and write CROUTON on this spot, just to remind myself of promises made.
Were I to do so now, I would only be reminding myself of promises broken. :(
Posted by muffled on October 3, 2006, at 23:56:01
In reply to Re: Whats a crouton? » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on October 2, 2006, at 12:22:46
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 4, 2006, at 7:45:52
In reply to sigh...yeah,now I get it. Scars suck. (nm) » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on October 3, 2006, at 23:56:01
Hi all,
well, I'm going to kind of take it easy on the guilty feelings for the daily kind of routine picky picky.I think I should spend my energies on trying to figure out which mental states and behaviors are related to the more pathological kind of picky picky cutty scratchy icky icky.
I just hate it that my own skin is a trigger for me to attack it! what a terrible state of affairs :(
I will see my pdoc tomorrow. hope he has some ideas. In the meanwhile. gloves. I suppose. I should go online and try to find a source of thin cotton gloves. maybe i need 5 pairs, so that there will always be some clean ones available.
ugh.
-Li
Posted by Jost on October 4, 2006, at 18:24:19
In reply to **S.Injury trigger** Scars suck., posted by Lindenblüte on October 4, 2006, at 7:45:52
Did you see the Pdoc?
The idea of an rx is really good. I hope he has some suggestions (and a handy prescription pad). Xanax (my favorite), or maybe something else?
You're doing really well. But it's good to prevent the scars, and possible discomfort.
{{{Linden}}}
Jost
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 4, 2006, at 18:38:46
In reply to Re: **S.Injury trigger** Scars suck. » Lindenblüte, posted by Jost on October 4, 2006, at 18:24:19
I see pdoc tomorrow! I sent him an update email on me, with all my recent crazinesses. He says we have a lot to talk about and he'll give me some options...
Oh goody. I can hardly wait. At least, well, at least I have a good pdoc and a good T. I'm kind of stressed out about me. I hate being stressed out about me. Its been pretty rough lately :( I can't
even imagine how hard it would be if I didn't have so many good-hearted and incredibly talented people helping me (like you!)-Li
Posted by Phillipa on October 4, 2006, at 18:52:49
In reply to Re: **S.Injury trigger** Scars suck., posted by Lindenblüte on October 4, 2006, at 18:38:46
Yes it really helps this board is my salvation. Never alone. Love Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on October 4, 2006, at 20:36:43
In reply to Re: **S.Injury trigger** Scars suck. » Lindenblüte, posted by Phillipa on October 4, 2006, at 18:52:49
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2006, at 11:21:58
In reply to sigh...yeah,now I get it. Scars suck. (nm) » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on October 3, 2006, at 23:56:01
I went to get my shots at the health clinic after Katrina, with my husband and son present, and the nurse commented on the nearly invisible thin white scars that my son nor my husband have ever probably noticed.
I think I told some story about rosebushes. But really, why would someone do that?
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 7, 2006, at 13:53:45
In reply to Scars, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2006, at 11:21:58
At Target, in the spa section, I found a bunch of thin cotton gloves. They come with various pretty patterns. They are designed so that you can put lotion on your hands and then wear the gloves. at 4 dollars a pair, I bought 2 pairs. I hope this will help keep my macerated cuticles from triggering futher attacks.
If anyone ever comments on my mutilated cuticles. (they are as bad as they have ever been) then I will just look down at them nonchalantly and say , "Oh, wow! i never noticed that. Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention." Icy voice is optional, however, it's very important to maintain firm eye gaze with the person who demands to intrude on your SI secret.
wonder woman and her truth lasso.-Li
Posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 23:37:42
In reply to Gloves » Dinah, posted by Lindenblüte on October 7, 2006, at 13:53:45
On occasion, I've put a thin layer of gauze and a medical-type bandage that you can wrap around my thumb, to let it heal and stop myself from biting at it (yuck--sorry).
I've always--until recently, actually--??? I guess--I noticed at the beginning of the thread that I must not be doing it right now-- have pulled unconsciously on my thumb and sometimes it got kind of raw.
That might not work for cuticles, but if it goes beyond that-- you can keep it on for several days, once you get it in place-- during the day too-- at least I can-- but then I'm not "with people"--
It's more adaptable than gloves.
Jost
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 7, 2006, at 23:55:20
In reply to Re: Gloves, posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 23:37:42
bandaids work fine during the day. i found a tip on lifehacker for getting bandaids to stick on fingers.
you put a single longitudinal slit on each of the adhesive ends. now your band aid looks like a dragonfly with 4 wings!! now you apply the gauze pad to to fingernail area, and then you wrap one set of wings around your finger, and the second set of wings criss-crosses on top of that. It works better than a rectangular bandage, because most fingers are tapered, rather than cylindrical.
i also have found some clear biomedical adhesive tape that i can stick on in a pinch.
still, though, sometimes nothing replaces the wonderful feeling of a nice... trigger!
-Li
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 22:30:56
In reply to Re: Gloves » Jost, posted by Lindenblüte on October 7, 2006, at 23:55:20
1. Okay- first of all. no cutting that's good news. Cutting usually happens when I feel un-real. not like myself. "depersonalization"
2. Have definitely found that klonopin reduces the urge to pick. this morning I picked my poor earlobe scab wide open, and realized that I hadn't had my klonopin yet. hmm.
3. Have found that wearing cotton gloves at night with hand cream makes my cuticles plump and smooth and shiny and healthy pink. This removes a trigger- the dreaded hangnail/flakey bit
4. Have found that wearing gloves during potentially triggering tasks- like talking on the phone, watching TV/movie/ typing/ working/ reading... heck- LIFE!@#$$!@#$@ greatly reduces not only the cuticle destruction but ALSO the ability to use my fingernails to pick and scratch.
5. Have developed a strategy for times when I know I want to pick all my facial blemishes. I keep the lights off in the bathroom and try and get in, wash my face, brush teeth, smear on lotion, and get out as fast as possible.
6. Waxing- tonight I waxed my eyebrow region. Wow- this was quite lovely. I think I could make a habit of this, except that it's gloppy and messy! So, next time I get in the urge, maybe I'll pop my waxing stuff in the microwave, and wax my upper lip or between my eyebrows or something.
7. Ice cubes- I haven't tried this out yet, but supposedly using an ice cube to self "injure" is a great way of causing physical pain without damage. Has any one tried this yet?
8. Figured out my biggest trigger- talking on my mom on the phone. she called me today. she dared ask me how my depression was going. (um, fine). In retaliation, I told her that she should consider counselling for herself and for dad, and then systematically destroyed each and every one of her lame excuses. Whatever. by the end of our pleasant chat, my 10 beautiful nails and cuticles were 70% affected with 4 bleeders. Damn. Well, at least now I know to grab my gloves (my boxing gloves?) whenever my mom calls me.
Anybody else working on this stuff?
-Li
Posted by Phillipa on October 15, 2006, at 22:37:51
In reply to 2 Weeks of trying really hard- update *SItrig*, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 22:30:56
Li congratulations at finding your biggest trigger. And you have managed to do wonderful things this week for yourself and others. Love phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on October 15, 2006, at 23:24:39
In reply to 2 Weeks of trying really hard- update *SItrig*, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 22:30:56
> 8. Figured out my biggest trigger- talking on my mom on the phone. she called me today. she dared ask me how my depression was going. (um, fine). In retaliation, I told her that she should consider counselling for herself and for dad, and then systematically destroyed each and every one of her lame excuses. Whatever. by the end of our pleasant chat, my 10 beautiful nails and cuticles were 70% affected with 4 bleeders. Damn. Well, at least now I know to grab my gloves (my boxing gloves?) whenever my mom calls me.
>
> Anybody else working on this stuff?
>
> -LiYou have developed some great strategies. I imagine in time you may not need to practice all of them, but you have given yourself a safe place and reduced so many of your triggers.
How wonderful!
My own mum continues to be my biggest trigger. Not for what we say to each other, but for what she doesn't say to me. She's as tight lipped as a pre-Restayne Hollywood wannabe, and she is vacuous and superficial. Well, nice to meet you , too, m'am!
Again, good on you for doing so well, It is great to have one less thing to weigh us down on our journey to recovery.
((((Linden))))ClearSkies
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