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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on September 21, 2006, at 1:02:38
to be born w/no self esteem?
I was watching my 7 yr old in brownies yesterday. Interacting w/the other kids, and they were playing a game, and I remembered as a kid, I felt the emotions (I have very little actual memories). I felt like maybe how I proly felt in brownies, confusion, terror. I felt like a leper. That noone would come near me. I was afraid of them.
I could only have been 6-7 or so, cuz I only did brownies a few months I think. It was weird standing there, and reliving the sketchy feelings. And then it was worse later cuz I thot I had no memeories, but I must, cuz where did those come from?
So I dunno, I think I had no self esteem pretty young?
Is that the way it was for most people you think?
I dunno.
I just kinda worried some.
I'm finding raising my daughter kindof hard sometimes.
She sets stuff off sometimes.
I DON'T want her to be like me :-(
I want her to make a LIFE for herself, not waste away the years like I have......
Muffled
Posted by Racer on September 21, 2006, at 10:29:36
In reply to Do you think its possible..., posted by muffled on September 21, 2006, at 1:02:38
I could tell you all the reasons I don't think so -- from animal models to my own memories of what excised mine -- but I think it's easier and clearer just to say, "No, I don't believe it's possible to be born without self esteem. I believe that self esteem is strengthened or weakened by experiences in life, and that it's possible to have quite threadbare self esteem by the age of 7 or 8."
I'm sorry things were and are rough for you, Muffled.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2006, at 13:36:29
In reply to No, I don't » muffled, posted by Racer on September 21, 2006, at 10:29:36
Racer's right. The erosion of my self esteem happened when I was very young, 4 or 5 for me. My family photos show a smiling happy little girl until that time. Proof enough for me.
Posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 16:06:56
In reply to Re: No, I don't, and neither do I., posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2006, at 13:36:29
People are born with temperaments though. It was only when I'd had my own kids that I realised how much this is true. But self esteem is the kind of concept/mental structure thingo that a new born could not be expected to have or not have. But kids are born with temperaments, likes and dislikes. It's how we manage to make the best of these that makes the difference between self-esteem and not having it.
Posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 16:16:20
In reply to Re: No, I don't, and neither do I., posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 16:06:56
Sometimes it's just bad luck, as for example when the mother is depressed or having difficulties and just can't find a way to make it work with one kid where she might be able to do so with another. What one kid likes won't work on another sometimes.
Posted by muffled on September 21, 2006, at 17:51:26
In reply to No, I don't » muffled, posted by Racer on September 21, 2006, at 10:29:36
Posted by muffled on September 21, 2006, at 17:53:21
In reply to Re: No, I don't, and neither do I., posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2006, at 13:36:29
Posted by muffled on September 21, 2006, at 17:54:33
In reply to Re: No, I don't, and neither do I., posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 16:16:20
Posted by Poet on September 21, 2006, at 21:06:02
In reply to Do you think its possible..., posted by muffled on September 21, 2006, at 1:02:38
Hi Muffled,
In every baby picture of me I am either crying or frowning. In grade school I forced a smile. I still do that forced smile.
Your daughter will make a life for herself. She seems to like being a brownie and must like that her mom was there with her, too.
Poet
Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 5:05:32
In reply to Re: Do you think its possible... » muffled, posted by Poet on September 21, 2006, at 21:06:02
I don't think people are born with a sense of self (or with a self) for them to have self esteem.
I guess babies are kind of narcissistic. I mean... they are pretty helpless. They are wet they cry. They are hungry they cry. They are sick they cry. Gotta get someones attention cause they can't change themselves or feed themselves or whatever.
Sometimes needs get frustrated... And they aren't happy campers. If your needs are frustrated a lot (because others don't and / or can't meet them) then you aren't going to be a happy camper.
When do we become self conscious?
I think around 2yrs old kids start showing an interest in their own bodies and self consciousness begins to emerge.
I guess we take our cues from others... If others tell us we are cute and give us lots of hugs when we need them and stuff then we learn to feel good about ourself.
If others tell us we are ugly and hit us and stuff then we learn to feel bad about ourself.
:-(
Posted by muffled on September 22, 2006, at 13:49:08
In reply to Re: Do you think its possible... » muffled, posted by Poet on September 21, 2006, at 21:06:02
Thanks poet, you are kind.
I hope my kids do ok....
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by muffled on September 22, 2006, at 13:50:54
In reply to Re: Do you think its possible..., posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 5:05:32
That makes sense Alex.
Guess if kids don't get what they need, and I reckon diff kids have diff needs (I notice that in my irl kids).
Well I guess it pretty much screws them up, cuz our family of origin teaches us alot, cu its all we know......
Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 19:41:44
In reply to Re: Do you think its possible... » alexandra_k, posted by muffled on September 22, 2006, at 13:50:54
Yeah. I think it sounds like you needed some more reassurance than you got when you were a kid. I remember feeling the same. Like people wished I wasn't around. Like they would prefer it if I wasn't there. Mostly I just wanted to fall through the floorboards. So self conscious and awkward.
And all I needed was a smile. Some kind of reassurance.
I can't remember the age...
When kids start to toddle I guess... You kind of start to wander. You see a kid toddling along. It gets to somewhere then looks for attachment figure. Attachment figure smiles and toddler is happy and proud. If attachment figure doesn't look and smile sometimes toddler starts to cry.
Reassurance.
Kids bring up all kinds of feelings in me too.
I think mostly kids need what all of us need. To feel loved and accepted for who they are.
If you want your kids to feel loved and accepted... Tell them how you love them and offer / give them hugs and smiles when they need them.
You are a great person muffled. Nobodies perfect... But your kids are doing alright aren't they?
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 22, 2006, at 20:13:33
In reply to Re: Do you think its possible..., posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 19:41:44
Muffled,
I have worked with kids looking at different aspects of temperament and self-esteem. I guess the youngest that I've seen a kid have insecurities was at about age 3 (almost 4). Certainly by age 4, a lot of kids will have insecurities. That's pretty natural I think.One thing that parents can do to help their kids get a healthy self-esteem is to give praise on things that children have control over. If you praise their beauty or their innate intelligence, all is well when they suceed on a task. But when they fail (and failure is part of life) they will blame their failure on some part of them that is immutable. They failed because they are stupid or ugly. If you give praise because they worked hard, then when they fail, they will attribute it to lack of effort (which is something that they can control). These children are also more likely to seek out challenges. Children who believe that some internal essence is causing them to fail may be more likely to seek out toys and games which provide good feedback (easy tasks). They may be reluctant to take risks in which they may be judged harshly, or which may lead to criticism (or a bad grade).
The good news is that even adults can change the way they motivate themselves. Are we motivated because we want to tackle a challenge? Or are we motivated because we want to reinforce some idea of ourselves as "perfect"? Isn't that why a lot of us are in therapy?
Also, these personal styles may not extend to all domains- some kids may be more challenge-oriented for certain things (like math or gymnastics) and more success-oriented for other things (like piano and meeting new people)
Of course, children seem to be born with more anxious or more rambunctious temperaments. Sensitive caretakers, teachers, and coaches know that what is considered a harsh criticism to an anxious kid may bounce right off a rambunctious kid.
Muffled, I bet you do pretty well. Remember that kids go through their little phases with their in-groups and cliques, and the classes and activities that they find enjoyable or stressful. It will all be okay. I wonder if my parents ever gave 5 seconds worth of thought to my self-esteem. I think a lot of LOVE will make up for most parenting boo-boos. Kids are pretty resilient. (I submit Lindenblüte as evidence for that... degrees and happily married and ... totally PsYcHo!!! lol )
-Lindenblüte
Posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2006, at 22:14:24
In reply to Kid's self-esteem, posted by Lindenblüte on September 22, 2006, at 20:13:33
I was never kissed or hugged as a child and constantly criticized. Doesn't help with self-esteem. I was taught to smile with my mouth closed. Muffled just hug and kiss them and praise all the good things they do and tend to ignore the bad things. Love Phillipa
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 20:30:21
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem, posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2006, at 22:14:24
Ya I DO try and show my kids that they important to me.
But they kinda clingy cuz they know I a little screwed up.
And I tell them its ME not them.
Sigh.
Anyhow, I'm finding it very hard to follow multiple boards, so I think I will go back and hang mostly on psychology.
Thank you all,
Muffled
Posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 10:14:29
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem, posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 20:30:21
> Ya I DO try and show my kids that they important to me.
Thats great :-)
> But they kinda clingy cuz they know I a little screwed up.
> And I tell them its ME not them.
> Sigh.Kids can be kinda clingy at times... Adults too. Maybe it isn't because they know you are a little screwed up maybe it is because... They love you so much muffled.
Posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 10:27:58
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem » muffled, posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 10:14:29
> > Ya I DO try and show my kids that they important to me.
>
> Thats great :-)
>
> > But they kinda clingy cuz they know I a little screwed up.
> > And I tell them its ME not them.
> > Sigh.
>
> Kids can be kinda clingy at times... Adults too. Maybe it isn't because they know you are a little screwed up maybe it is because... They love you so much muffled.
>
***Ah sh*t Alex, you probably right.
I always figger its more that they dependant on me.
But my7 yr old daughter leaves me this phone message on my cell the other day, in her squeeky little girl voice, 'love you mom'....
I was gonna save it, but it got erased.
I get so confused...
Thanks for pointing that out Alex.
Muffled
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 25, 2006, at 11:25:45
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem » alexandra_k, posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 10:27:58
(((Muffly)))
that's SO sweet!There's such a thing as healthy attachment. You want your kids to feel that they can come to you when they have a problem, or when they want to share their success, or if they just need a hug. On the other hand, they also need to know how do laundry and where to buy soap when the go off to college :)
I bet your kids do just fine :)
-Li
Posted by alexandra_k on September 26, 2006, at 7:16:02
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem » alexandra_k, posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 10:27:58
> I always figger its more that they dependant on me.yeah. emotionally dependent. attached. that means they love you. they care about you. they feel good when you are enjoying their presence. like how... you want your t to care about you... they want you to care about them. only... they don't push you away because they haven't been hurt like you have. treasure them muffled... kids can be kinda beautiful. maybe your inner kids could play with them?
Posted by muffled on September 26, 2006, at 9:39:27
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem » muffled, posted by alexandra_k on September 26, 2006, at 7:16:02
I do treasure them Alex. Sometimes so much I don't understand it.
Strangely my Ikids don't play w/them much.
The only one who does mostly is toughie ans she is too rough for them and not a good example for them.
Go figger.
Take care Alex,
Muffled
Posted by muffled on September 26, 2006, at 23:28:52
In reply to Re: Kid's self-esteem » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on September 25, 2006, at 11:25:45
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Self-Esteem | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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