![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 17:08:57
I was so apathetic and self-hating for a long time. I also didn't care what happened to me. I didn't care to wear nice outfits and do my nails. Heck, it was an accomplishment for me to take a shower and wash my hair. I didn't take care of myself well, and I had bigger problems.
Now my mood is pretty good. But I'm starting to notice all kinds of flaws. Things that haven't bothered me in a long time, because I was such a lump of moaning misery. I dont' like my body. I don't like my skin. I don't like my habits. I don't like... me? I feel like a waste of carbon. And I don't think that it's depression. I think that I have shifted my mind away from paying attention to inner misery so that now I have resources to pay attention to my outside. Not much liking what I see, either.
The worst thing is that if I work on myself- exercise and eat healthier food- will I feel better about me, or will I just become obsessed with my number on the scale/pant size/# of visible ribs? I've been there in the past. Obsession, never disorder. I don't like it much. To think in units of body morphology. To evaluate people relative to my BMI, automatically. To judge my good days by the amount of exercise and self-improvment and diet I suffered?
I'm not sure what to do. The better I feel, the higher my expectations of myself. Ergo- no progress in the self-esteem dept.
-ll (do I sign this one? I don't even like myself enough to sign my own post)
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2006, at 18:50:23
In reply to Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 17:08:57
lurpsie I had my husband read your post he said it sounds just like me. But now I'm really confused as I'm "supposed to be majorly depressed". But I've always done my nails, washed hair daily, and showered. Could it be that I don't know what real depresion is? Hence why the AD's don't work for me and only benzos? As my anxiety of getting older, wrinkles, gaining a few pounds, and the guilt I feel when it rains outside and can't excercise make me feel so inadequate, lazy, stupid, ugly. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 20:36:30
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » llrrrpp, posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2006, at 18:50:23
I bet everyone responds to depression in different ways. It's kind of like how everyone gets different symptoms from the same flu virus.
Well, I guess one of the big topics in my psychotherapy these days is that my expectations of others and myself are too high, and too unrealistic.
This leads to perpetual dissapointment in how others treat me.
It also leads to interpreting almost anything I do as a failure, a lack of accomplishing the goal. Am I a failure because I am not an MD? Well on a good day, I'd say- no way! you don't wanna be a doctor. And on a bad day, I'd say- you're smart enough to be an MD, if you had any kind of work ethic, you would have made a great doctor; you just chickened out because you thought grad school would be easier. hahaha. Now my college friends are wrapping up their residencies and finally earning some money, having no problems finding jobs, or any of that stuff.
phillipa, do you do any kind of therapy? Is there anything that works for you?
-ll
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2006, at 20:49:10
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » Phillipa, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 20:36:30
Excercise? Love Phillipa ps I've tried many therapists and they are only concerned with today. When what I need is to grieve my not having a well Mother who died when I was l7. A cheating first husband that said I would die a lonely old woman. And my loss of my best friends Brandy and Sheeba. I have Chloe and Teddy but not the same as you're first dogs.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 21:24:38
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » llrrrpp, posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2006, at 20:49:10
Wow Phillipa,
I think T should try to understand past, because it influences today and the future too. The best predictor of someone's future behavior is how they behaved in the past in similar circumstances...Have you ever worked with a T that had a psychodynamic approach?
My T uses a lot of different strategies. He's been avoiding any CBT work. I think I'm starting to understand why. I bet that if I set myself up with little exercises to do, and I don't do them, I will feel worse than if I had no therapy at all.
I appreciate how T interprets my interactions with other people too. Sometimes he'll point out a motive for how someone acted that didn't even occur to me. MANY times he has totally figured out someone's strengths and weaknesses based on my sketchy description. And while the best T cannot change the facts of our past, they can help us understand our role in it, and how it might affect our relationships and dreams today. But, that's the kind of work that takes a bit of time-- and it's not fun at all. (see my post on psychology board.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20060826/msgs/681576.html
here's one of the responses.I don't know how much you can invest in this kind of therapy, but I think that it has really helped me. The drugs made the therapy more bearable, and made me want to stick around for a while. Maybe I got a little more motivation. But I think that the therapy has actually made me figure out better ways of reacting to things, interpreting other people's behavior, and ultimately changing my own beliefs about myself.
It's not going to change who you are, but T might help you make a better selection from the possibilities of who you can be.
That sounds like a bunch of hooey from a therapy addict. Well. give it a shot. it can't hurt any more than crippling depression and anxiety, right? Plus, you have so much energy to do the biking and the psychobabble. I think you'd do well with a therapist that takes some time to get to know you.
-ll
Posted by Jost on August 30, 2006, at 22:50:53
In reply to Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 17:08:57
Ll, are you sure you aren't more depressed, or feeling a sense of loss, about your Mom and Dad, and leaving home than about weight?
I mean weight is something you might feel is wrong with you, not with someone else, so it doesn't hurt as much-- Even though you feel bad about yourself, it's for being overweight (supposedly overweight, I should say)-- it's not because you can't make it better for others-- or stop the losses that they and you will suffer. Those are so much scarier and sadder (more tragic) than a few pounds. And by reducing what's at stake to a physical dimension, you made it possible to know--to tell if you've lost the weight-- it's nice and concrete-- measurable, achievable-- even if you don't feel good about yourself anyway-- or in the process (which may be part of the point?)
Maybe I'm off-base-- There's not anything that wrong with exercise or losing weight-- if you want to.
But it seems so much as if this has come over you in the last few days. As if it's being stirred up by something.
It's very sad that your Dad isn't well, and that your Mom lost her job-- very shocking and strikes at your heart-- but your love and presence in their lives and the world means a tremendous lot to both of them-- your being there and caring. It sounds trite, and overworked, but it's true. You give them what really counts, by being you--
No, it doesn't make all the other things go away--- if only it could. -- But it's such a precious thing.
Try to remember that. A few pounds here and there--- don't change the things that matter---
Terrestrial white whales are an incredibly rare species, and I personally wouldn't want one to be worried about how it looks-- it's a beautiful thing.
Jost
(Don't forget that. )
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 23:30:51
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » llrrrpp, posted by Jost on August 30, 2006, at 22:50:53
Jost,
wishing there were an emoticon that was a spontaneous smile through flowing tears.yes, rare and special is the terrestrial white whale.
And of course you're right, that weight is not my main issue right now.
I just can't organize myself to write about my main issue right now, because it would require about 4 years and 8.7 terabytes of storage on Dr. Bob's server.
I just feel really alone right now. And I'm being incredibly self-critical about everything in life. Weight is one of many things, but basically peripheral to my main doubts of being a whole human being. I'm so tattered and disorganized in everything that the merest attempt to recognize success is struck down at once by the world's most giant glaring hiliter pen circling every flaw I've ever had. All my it's instead of its. All my trains of thought that took off too late and never made it to their final destination. All the time I've spent here only to be incredibly frustrated that I will never know, or be known. and the realization that it's not just a limitation of the "online support group" medium, but probably one of life in general.
lonely. yep. you bet.
And husband and i are once again in different states. And that is also a factor to consider. But how to consider it without becoming an emotional wreck?
f*ck if I know.
-ll
Posted by Jost on August 31, 2006, at 10:45:08
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » Jost, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 23:30:51
That is one of life's mysteries/tragedies/sources of regret and maybe redemption
There are times when it seem so unbearable that I can't just get someone inside me-- or that they can't get me inside them-- forever-- that I can't reach in and make them happy, safe, warm, and know that they are, that nothing bad can happeninstead, it's always going to be that we're separate, and alone, unable to protect one another
I guess that's what keeps us going, too-- trying, failing, getting back hope, going for whatever it is, at that moment, that our hopes center on
I'm not good at dealing with this, either-- except to absolutely refuse to let myself be torn up-- to keep my mind's eye on the other person's presence in the world, even at a distance-- as if they're moving nearby, beyond my line of vision, in another room, just out of sight -- even if it's half way around the world
And to keep them in my thoughts, and mind. Not that I think of them all the time, but they are part of me, and what I'm doing-- especially the important things--
But that's only something I've barely learning to do-- there were many years when I would be torn apart by separations, disappearances.
Whales swim separately in the water, sometimes, but they hear the songs of other whales in the distance. And they sing their songs. Do terrestial white whales have songs that they sing?
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 11:26:45
In reply to Re: Being/not being known » llrrrpp, posted by Jost on August 31, 2006, at 10:45:08
> That is one of life's mysteries/tragedies/sources of regret and maybe redemption
Yep. All the great stories begin with tragedy and uncertainty.
> There are times when it seem so unbearable that I can't just get someone inside me-- or that they can't get me inside them-- forever-- that I can't reach in and make them happy, safe, warm, and know that they are, that nothing bad can happen
yes. And no matter how comforting a hug is, there's no hug in the world that will conquer all of the coldness and doubt in my heart. And I feel like I get addicted to them. The more I hug, the more I feel like making myself vulnerable, and when I show that rawness, it needs to be hugged too, and so on...
> instead, it's always going to be that we're separate, and alone, unable to protect one anotheryeah. Often unable to protect even ourselves. Another one of my delusions is that I can master the situation. Sometimes better to just go with the current. When you fall out of the raft in a swift dangerous rapid- just point your feet downstream and try to float it out. Don't stand up. Don't try to swim. Just let the water accelerate you through the path of least resistance. And then, sputtering to catch my breath in the eddy downstream, I wonder why I'm not going anywhere. But when I'm ready again, I can move back into the current, or wait for my raft captain to come and pick me up.
> I guess that's what keeps us going, too-- trying, failing, getting back hope, going for whatever it is, at that moment, that our hopes center on
>
> I'm not good at dealing with this, either-- except to absolutely refuse to let myself be torn up-- to keep my mind's eye on the other person's presence in the world, even at a distance-- as if they're moving nearby, beyond my line of vision, in another room, just out of sight -- even if it's half way around the world
>
> And to keep them in my thoughts, and mind. Not that I think of them all the time, but they are part of me, and what I'm doing-- especially the important things--
>
> But that's only something I've barely learning to do-- there were many years when I would be torn apart by separations, disappearances.
>
> Whales swim separately in the water, sometimes, but they hear the songs of other whales in the distance. And they sing their songs. Do terrestial white whales have songs that they sing?Well, there are a few songs that we share. They are not really audible, more like waves of pressure that impact the senses and affect the limbic system directly and subconsciously. We also share a lot of music, because we fell in love playing music together. Maybe Respighi: Pines of Rome. You have to hear the whole piece, but when you get to the movement of the clarinet solo, you'll hear the whales talking in their fragile, but sustained and persistent voices. I borrow this image from "Fantasia 2000", but it is apt, and moving.
Definitely Mahler's 5th Symphony. By the time you get to the Adagietto (4th movement) you've experienced all the emotions in the human repertoire, and your heart is tender and bruised. This movement starts slowly to coax your heart out of some place where you've been sheltering it. Perhaps the most powerful moment in classical music is when an orchestra is committed to sharing their raw emotions. And when an entire stage of strings dares to allow themselves to feel their own and their stand partners' and their colleagues dreams and hopes and fears... Well, it's enough to give you goosebumps. You realize that Mahler and the conductor are just organizing us to feel universal emotions simultaneously. Like additive waves that get stronger as more people on stage and in the audience commit themselves to revealing their humanity. This movement is proof of the bittersweet power of love.
-ll
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 20:45:26
In reply to Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 17:08:57
>
>
> Now my mood is pretty good. But I'm starting to notice all kinds of flaws. Things that haven't bothered me in a long time, because I was such a lump of moaning misery. I dont' like my body. I don't like my skin. I don't like my habits. I don't like... me? I feel like a waste of carbon. And I don't think that it's depression. I think that I have shifted my mind away from paying attention to inner misery so that now I have resources to pay attention to my outside. Not much liking what I see, either.Whoa! Lurpsie! You're starting to sound like me!
How on earth did you learn to be so hard on yourself? And do you notice that you're turning it into a character flaw, rather than a depressive disorder? Kewl, huh? You can make it even worse for yourself -- now it really is your fault! You can beat yourself up even more! Good plan.
>
> The worst thing is that if I work on myself- exercise and eat healthier food- will I feel better about me, or will I just become obsessed with my number on the scale/pant size/# of visible ribs? I've been there in the past. Obsession, never disorder. I don't like it much. To think in units of body morphology. To evaluate people relative to my BMI, automatically. To judge my good days by the amount of exercise and self-improvment and diet I suffered?You know I don't know how to answer this one, right? Even if I could, you'd be crazy to take me seriously... I guess all I can say is be very careful about it becoming a disorder -- and remember that I *still* have a hard time taking in that I wasn't just "pretending" to have an eating disorder. I know that I do, I know that I'm still very distorted -- hell, I gained more than 20 pounds overnight, after those hard sessions yesterday. Even I can tell that's distortion...
I guess I would suggest, though, that you maybe think about what it is that you would do for yourself if you loved yourself? Would you paint your toenails? Soak in bubblebath? Pull a shoelace for your cat? Whatever it is, that's what you "should" be doing. (Yeah, I used a bad word, didn't I?)
>
> I'm not sure what to do. The better I feel, the higher my expectations of myself. Ergo- no progress in the self-esteem dept.That's something I struggle with a lot, I think -- why do I need to be perfect? I guess I'm just not good enough as it is.
Are you good enough? You tell me I am, so what is it about me that makes me good enough when you aren't? (Or are you just saying that it's OK for me to be as awful as I am, simply because I'm not you? Hm...) What does good enough look like to llrrrpp? Exactly how perfect do you have to be, to satisfy yourself?
Eh, if you're anything at all like me, you don't know. But it's something to think about, isn't it?
For what it's worth, I think you're good enough. In fact, I think you're pretty darn good.
Posted by Phillipa on August 31, 2006, at 21:13:51
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » llrrrpp, posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 20:45:26
Yup I agree lurpsie is pretty wonderful. And Racer so are you. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 22:24:42
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » llrrrpp, posted by Racer on August 31, 2006, at 20:45:26
> Whoa! Lurpsie! You're starting to sound like me!
Am I supposed to take that in a bad way? Well, I don't like it when you are so hard on yourself, so . Yeah. I guess.
> How on earth did you learn to be so hard on yourself? And do you notice that you're turning it into a character flaw, rather than a depressive disorder? Kewl, huh? You can make it even worse for yourself -- now it really is your fault! You can beat yourself up even more! Good plan.
Ha- because I was the "healthy" one. It was a defining part of my identity. Mama's little girl, never gave her any problems while older brother went and landed himself in various combinations of hospitals for 2 years as an inpatient. (good news folks- complete remission of all illnesses). I thought brother was a bad person. He certainly treated me like an *ss. And I viewed his tenure in the "insane asylum" [his term] as proof of what a lousy specimen of humanity he was. I guess he turned out okay. Now he's rich, and we get along pretty well, considering my early torture at his hands.
> > will I feel better about me, or will I just become obsessed with my number on the scale/pant size/# of visible ribs? I've been there in the past. Obsession, never disorder. I don't like it much. To think in units of body morphology.
> You know I don't know how to answer this one, right? Even if I could, you'd be crazy to take me seriously... I guess all I can say is be very careful about it becoming a disorder -- and remember that I *still* have a hard time taking in that I wasn't just "pretending" to have an eating disorder. I know that I do, I know that I'm still very distorted -- hell, I gained more than 20 pounds overnight, after those hard sessions yesterday. Even I can tell that's distortion...
yes. I know. In the past my obsessive behavior has been largely peer-driven. My gay workout buddy had me bench pressing 80 lbs in college. that's so hilarious given current state of flabbiness! And my thesis advisor could only be found at the kickboxing class, as she was on sabbatical that year. So, if I wanted to touch base with her, had to go to kickboxing. And then there were the skinny girls at the dining hall, complaining about the calorie content/points/fat grams of the air that they were breathing. Add to that the stress of trying to be sexy when essentially I'm a nerd. It kind of forced my mind into comparison mode. All those bodies, so strong and athletic, and lo and behold, I made my body the same way. But it was an all-consuming project, and didn't leave me much emotional energy to deal with the exhaustion and fatigue.
See, I'm not a perfectionist, but I do enjoy a bit of suffering now and then.
> I guess I would suggest, though, that you maybe think about what it is that you would do for yourself if you loved yourself? Would you paint your toenails? Soak in bubblebath? Pull a shoelace for your cat? Whatever it is, that's what you "should" be doing. (Yeah, I used a bad word, didn't I?)
I guess what I'm going to do tonight is go to bed early. rest my brain and my heart.
> > I'm not sure what to do. The better I feel, the higher my expectations of myself. Ergo- no progress in the self-esteem dept.
>
> That's something I struggle with a lot, I think -- why do I need to be perfect? I guess I'm just not good enough as it is.
> Are you good enough? You tell me I am, so what is it about me that makes me good enough when you aren't? (Or are you just saying that it's OK for me to be as awful as I am, simply because I'm not you? Hm...) What does good enough look like to llrrrpp? Exactly how perfect do you have to be, to satisfy yourself?Racer, it's not myself I'm worried about. It's my husband, and my family. My advisor. My uterus. My fellowship granting institution. There are plans for me that I struggle to internalize and accept. And these plans demand that I finish what I started, and right now I'm on a path that could have me being a professor at an Ivy League University, which I DON'T want to do (that's what would make my professors happy). Obtain a job in the next 12 months in the region of my husband's job (that's what would make husband happy). Survive the next year and emerge with some kind of position that is fun and challenging, in the region of my husband's job (that's what would make ME happy). I'm torn. but I guarantee you, I'm not a perfectionist. If you can believe me, I'm privileged, and I've worked hard, but many times, I have also taken the path of least resistance. (can you believe that entering a PhD program was the path of least resistance? I promise it was so. no joke.)
> Eh, if you're anything at all like me, you don't know. But it's something to think about, isn't it?
you betcha
> For what it's worth, I think you're good enough. In fact, I think you're pretty darn good.
That means a lot to me Racer, but you've never seen the inside of a garment that I've sewn (groan). seriously, we all do what we can with what we've got. I'm just kind of pissed that my marketable asset (my mind) is so unreliable right now. I need an overhaul.
-ll
Posted by Jost on September 1, 2006, at 0:17:54
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » Racer, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 22:24:42
Waste of carbon. !
Shut yo'mouth. Don't you even say that.
I'm going to find Mahler's 5th. Gosh, I hope it's not the one I think it is.
I don't have the energy for that much emotion.
Jost
PS Not to inhibit your full expression --: but don't you even go there -- at least not while I can hear it.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 1, 2006, at 7:44:08
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery, posted by Jost on September 1, 2006, at 0:17:54
yes Mahler's 5th.
And yes. it's exhausting.
save it for a time when you have some excess of emotion. perhaps when you're feeling some rage, or frustration? It may just help to distribute it more evenly between rage,joy,mirth,gratitude, love,lust,anger,jealousy,woe,despair, hatred,pride,calmness,tranquility,redemption.
Please get one of the good recordings. This is the worst possible composition to be played with insipid technique. The public library probably has some of these recordings. Vienna Phil. Berlin Phil. Chicago Symphony (the trumpet solo is KEY). NY Phil (not so hot, unfortunately). Cleveland (fantastic strings)
-ll
do you understand Jewish musical quotations? I've always wondered how much Mahler I wasn't understanding because I don't know much about the Jewish music tradition.
Posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 12:32:38
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » Jost, posted by llrrrpp on September 1, 2006, at 7:44:08
Sorry, Lurps, I dont' understand Jewish musical notation. I'm pretty marginally Jewish. And marginally musically informed (or possibly not marginally any more)
I do love Mahler, but he takes too much out of me. It's kind of like I've been there, and done that, and it wasn't as good as it was for Mahler, but I'm still exhausted from my version.
I have to stick to Brahms symphonies.
Although, sadly, I don't listen to classical music. I grew up on it. When I got to a certain place (not sure what, exactly) I dropped what I grew up with--stopped reading and listening to classical music, and being generally at all cultured.
I don't have the emotional energy to experience things that way. It's something I don't understand, because if I do, I like it, but I don't think I will. I need it in small doses-- a whole evening of dance or music, or threater or even a museum is too much. And it seems as if you have to do an evening, not a half hour.
So I don't do it.
I can remember doing it, but that's about all.
So next time you hear Mahler, listen for a few minutes, for me.
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 13:18:50
In reply to Re: Self-Esteem suffering from depression recovery » llrrrpp, posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 12:32:38
> Sorry, Lurps, I dont' understand Jewish musical notation. I'm pretty marginally Jewish. And marginally musically informed (or possibly not marginally any more)
I went to a service last year at my friends' son's Bar Mitzvah. I had no idea that there was so much music involved. It was really amazing to hear recitations done in chants. I really do go to many religious services just for the music.
> I do love Mahler, but he takes too much out of me. It's kind of like I've been there, and done that, and it wasn't as good as it was for Mahler, but I'm still exhausted from my version.
Good, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I get kind of saturated sometimes. The worst is that music that I have just performed, I cannot tolerate to listen to, perhaps for a few years. Thus, Brahms 1. and 2. Symphonies are kind of "no-man's-land" for me. Regrettably. Would you believe me if I said that they were too triggering? That the music calls to mind the mistakes that I made, or the wicked conductor, or the fact that I miss my 3/4's of a quartet friends so dearly. Recently performed music just has too many strong associations.
> I have to stick to Brahms symphonies.
>
> Although, sadly, I don't listen to classical music. I grew up on it. When I got to a certain place (not sure what, exactly) I dropped what I grew up with--stopped reading and listening to classical music, and being generally at all cultured.that's okay. don't be sad!
> I don't have the emotional energy to experience things that way. It's something I don't understand, because if I do, I like it, but I don't think I will. I need it in small doses-- a whole evening of dance or music, or threater or even a museum is too much. And it seems as if you have to do an evening, not a half hour.
I understand completely. This is the beauty of me having an iPod. I can listen to 10 minutes waiting for my ride, 5 minutes walking to get coffee, 20 minutes doing my grocery shopping. I typically set my player to shuffle pieces randomly. Should one of those dreaded Brahm's movements be selected or PERISH THE THOUGHT: Debussy's Str. Quartet-- I will just click to hear the next song.
> So I don't do it.
That's okay. My friends have to force me to go to concerts, but once I'm there, I'm okay. I can pay attn. to the stage for part of the time. Sometimes I'm daydreaming, reading my program, or inspecting the conductor's buttocks, counting the number of women in the brass section, etc.
> I can remember doing it, but that's about all.
>
> So next time you hear Mahler, listen for a few minutes, for me.I will Jost. And when you listen to the 2nd mvmt of Brahm's 1st symphony (Andante sostenuto), think of me :o) and imagine playing that violin part. So delicate, so nuanced, so expressive, so intense, yets so transparent.
I played really well at the concert, but I am traumatized by all the rehearsals, where I couldn't focus, couldn't sustain the phrase, played a wrong note, or played out of tune/rhythm. Remember, being a violin in the orchestra demands a conformity of action and emotion that is very straining.
My God, I think it was amazing that I did as well as I did, considering the my psych-meds were giving me all the side-effects and none of the AD/AP effects at that point. I left one rehearsal early because I kept on having flashbacks to middle school (last time I played Br. 1) or was having mental fuzzies, couldn't concentrate, couldn't hear well, couldn't feel my own hands, started crying or shaking. Such a freak.
SO, YEAH- ! I understand when you say that you have to leave Mahler aside. But don't leave Mahler behind. You'll come back to him at some point in your life.
-ll
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