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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on March 25, 2007, at 22:13:46
Does anyone know if 40 mg of Zinc and 2 mg Copper daily is a dosage that might induce copper deficiency? Thanks...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 10:01:23
In reply to How much zinc is too much re: copper deficiency?, posted by saturn on March 25, 2007, at 22:13:46
Hey
Seems about right - the first two lines were taken from a good supplement maker and this is what their products contain, and the last line is yours:
15mg Zinc, 0.5mg Copper (1.67%)20mg Zinc (citrate), 1.25mg Copper (6.25%)
40 mg of Zinc and 2 mg Copper (5%)
So seems about right.Do you have any idea what some Copper rich foods might be? Apparently we get alot of copper from water pipes nowadays, but I have no idea if I live in a copper pipe building or not....
Posted by saturn on March 27, 2007, at 10:16:42
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 10:01:23
> Hey
Hey Meri
> Do you have any idea what some Copper rich foods might be? Apparently we get alot of copper from water pipes nowadays, but I have no idea if I live in a copper pipe building or not....
Here are some copper rich foods: Oysters, sardines, Sunflower seeds, crab, lobster, peanuts, mushrooms, dried Plums and almonds. Brewer's yeast is also allegedly rich in copper, though addmitedly I don't know what it's used for.
Thanks again for the info! Saturn.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 10:54:19
In reply to How much zinc is too much re: copper deficiency?, posted by saturn on March 25, 2007, at 22:13:46
>
> Does anyone know if 40 mg of Zinc and 2 mg Copper daily is a dosage that might induce copper deficiency? Thanks...Peace...Saturn.Most people get more copper in their diet than they require. Zinc deficiency is commonplace, however.
You're probably within the safe zone, statistically. Usually, it's thought that zinc starts hogging the shared uptake pumps at intakes of 50-80 mg/day, or thereabouts. Complete inhibition of copper uptake requires even higher doses, generally in the 150 mg ballpark.
I usually recommend 30 mg Zn from supps as the UL.
Lar
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 11:41:24
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficiency? » saturn, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 10:54:19
Lar,
30mg seems a very sensible number. I've been recently supplementing with ummm 5mg of sublingual zinc (as zinc citrate) - (don't ask - I have certain irrational fears). Do you think I need to worry about copper inferences? ie not getting enough copper? I doubt it, just checking.
Zinc is certainly very interesting.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by MoparFan91 on March 31, 2007, at 18:11:34
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc » Larry Hoover, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 11:41:24
If you're using good amounts of zinc over long periods of time, definitely supplement with copper.
High doses will deplete copper. I learned this the hard way.
Many using high doses of zinc to treat pyroluria must watch copper and prevent it from getting too low.
Supplementation of 1-3mg/day of copper is ideal to prevent copper deficiency due to usage of zinc supplements. The amount of copper to use depends on how much zinc you're using.
Posted by LOOPS on April 10, 2007, at 10:49:37
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc, posted by MoparFan91 on March 31, 2007, at 18:11:34
Hi -
I read that if you use a properly chelated form of a mineral, including zinc, that this prevented depletion/inhibition of copper. So you could take 30mg chelated zinc, or even more, and it wouldn't have any effect on copper.
Is this correct?
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 11, 2007, at 7:45:16
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc » Larry Hoover, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 11:41:24
> Lar,
>
> 30mg seems a very sensible number. I've been recently supplementing with ummm 5mg of sublingual zinc (as zinc citrate) - (don't ask - I have certain irrational fears). Do you think I need to worry about copper inferences? ie not getting enough copper? I doubt it, just checking.
>
> Zinc is certainly very interesting.
>
> Kind regards
>
> MeriI'm not sure if the same is true where you live, but copper plumbing can leach substantial amounts into water, particularly if the water table lies over igneous or metamorphic rock.
As you take your zinc sublingually, and even if swallowed, the dose is so low, uptake interference is a non-issue.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 11, 2007, at 7:53:26
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc, posted by LOOPS on April 10, 2007, at 10:49:37
> Hi -
>
> I read that if you use a properly chelated form of a mineral, including zinc, that this prevented depletion/inhibition of copper. So you could take 30mg chelated zinc, or even more, and it wouldn't have any effect on copper.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> LoopsNo, zinc chelation would not influence copper uptake one way or the other. There are at least four distinct cation uptake pumps that zinc can occupy. That's the entire issue. Zinc ions bully copper ions out of the way. 30 mg/day zinc is not likely to inhibit copper uptake to any substantial degree. There is a genetic disease leading to copper accumulation in the body (Wilson's Disease, analogous to hemochromatosis and iron), and treatment is simply to block copper uptake. Studies have clearly demonstrated that inhibition of copper uptake starts at around 80 mg/day zinc, and goes towards zero at 150 mg/day and above (statistically). Nota bene that no toxic effects of zinc occur at those intake levels, apart from blocking copper (and sometimes iron) uptake.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on April 11, 2007, at 9:02:03
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on April 11, 2007, at 7:53:26
How about taking zinc and vitamin C together? I have also read that vitamin C in largeish doses can lower both zinc and copper. So if you were to take a large amount of zinc and vitamin C would this lower copper? At what dose if so?
From personal experience I actually get sick more often taking zinc and vitamin C - apparently copper is very important for the immune system. I have also noticed this year I have some grey hairs and I am only 30 - apparently copper deficiency can make your hair go grey prematurely. Might be coincidence of course - but I have been supplementing both zinc and vitamin C before I came to the conclusion they weren't doing me that much good - but not in huge quantities - maybe a couple of grams of C and 30mg zinc.
For some people maybe even this amount is too much if copper is low?
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 15, 2007, at 15:37:45
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Larry Hoover on April 11, 2007, at 7:45:16
Actually, I do live on igneous/metamorphic rock - why does this increase the copper of the water? (I should actually know this!) Hmmm. There's a geochemical atlas of groundwater chemistry lying around the dept, I could take a peek at that. hmmm. Anyway they were doing some work on the pipes underground here - and it looked to be copper. They were pretty well insulated I have to say! I've always wondered why the water pipes don't freeze when the ground is -18C for weeks. And I guess its much harder to freeze flowing water.
But anyway, yeah.
Posted by tealady on April 15, 2007, at 23:34:50
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 15, 2007, at 15:37:45
> Actually, I do live on igneous/metamorphic rock - why does this increase the copper of the water? (I should actually know this!) Hmmm. There's a geochemical atlas of groundwater chemistry lying around the dept, I could take a peek at that. hmmm. Anyway they were doing some work on the pipes underground here - and it looked to be copper. They were pretty well insulated I have to say! I've always wondered why the water pipes don't freeze when the ground is -18C for weeks. And I guess its much harder to freeze flowing water.
>
> But anyway, yeah.I think it's more to do with not living in an area wher rock has a lot of dolomite/limestone etc.. like in England. Here the pipes get a lining of calcium which natrally stops the copper leaching into the water.
I think "hard" water causes less leaching than "soft" water.. hard water is so called as it contains lots of calcium I think?.. forget now exactlyThat's real intersting about your pipes not freazing, I always just thought they did!! .. and figured you'd just havta go out and melt some snow or sumthin... :-)
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:34:01
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficienc » Meri-Tuuli, posted by tealady on April 15, 2007, at 23:34:50
Oh yes of course! The limescale coating preventing the leaching of copper from the pipes into the water. And of course, igneous and metaphoric areas generally produce soft water.......
Thanks for the clarification.
Posted by sregan on May 23, 2007, at 15:12:46
In reply to Re: How much zinc is too much re: copper deficiency? » saturn, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 10:54:19
From Yasko's holistichealth.com website:
Zinc- This helps to block the flow of calcium into the neurons. Zinc works well for people who cannot tolerate magnesium. However, zinc is a double-edged sword; too much zinc will cause glutamate release. It is best to keep zinc at 25-40 mg per day.
This is the end of the thread.
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