![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Francesco on November 18, 2003, at 4:17:06
How to mix them well ?
I found that both helped me in different ways but I've been told that tyrosine cancels the benefits of taking triptophane.
I've also experienced muscle-ache problems with triptophane. It is normal ?
Thanks
Posted by tealady on November 18, 2003, at 5:28:48
In reply to Tyrosine Triptophane ? , posted by Francesco on November 18, 2003, at 4:17:06
>
> I've also experienced muscle-ache problems with triptophane. It is normal ?
Hmmm I would stop the tryptophan if I had that reaction...
Here's my post before to Mathhh when I was concerned about the comments implying one could safely take unlimited amounts of this stuff ....
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/263032.htmlIf you click on the link there you get "The Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome
The eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS) afflicted thousands, killed dozens and lingers in hundreds of victims to this day. It resembles a chronic autoimmune disease, with ACHING JOINTS AND MUSCLES, elevated white blood cells (eosinophils), fever, skin rash and fibrosis (hardening), swollen limbs, weakness and such long-term complications as lung disease (including pulmonary hypertension) and cognitive impairment"Note the aching joints and muscles?
Personally I don't know enough to really comment , but I'd be stopping it if It was me.I do have a few other concerns wuth tryptophan that I didn't mention at that time. Perhaps I should put them up for discussion now
This is a comment I saw from a doc a while ago...
(http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=6675.139)"Abnormalities in individual metabolism result in highly charged metabolic byproducts....indicans, xantheurenic acid, kyneurenic acid, which interact with cell membranes causing them to "leak.""
Here's some references
http://bmc.ub.uni-potsdam.de/1472-6793-1-7/
"Xanthurenic acid is formed upon tryptophan degradation by indoleamine-2,3 dioxygenase (IDO). The end products of this degradation pathway are, alternatively, nicotinate and xanthurenic acid. IDO activity is stimulated by superoxide radicals, liposaccharides and interferon-γ [1]. Kynurenine aminotransferase (KAT), the enzyme directly responsible for xanthurenic acid formation from 3-hydroxykynurenine, is found in the cytoplasm and mitochondria, and is highly expressed in the retina [2,3]. Xanthurenic acid is present in blood and urine at concentrations of 0.7 and 5-10 μM, respectively [4,5]. A several - fold increase is observed in vitamin B6 deficiency and some diseases such as tuberculosis [6,7]. Xanthurenic acid's presence in the blood is linked to malaria development, and in the lenses to senile cataract formation [8,9,10]. Xanthurenic acid binds covalently to proteins, leads to their unfolding, and to cell death [11]. Here, we report that xanthurenic acid induces cell death associated with caspase-3, -8, and -9 activation, nuclear DNA cleavage, and cytochrome C release"
"The results indicate that xanthurenic acid is an important factor involved in aging and disease development. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11867954&dopt=Abstract
"Tryptophan metabolism via the kynurenine pathway in experimental chronic renal failure.Pawlak D, Tankiewicz A, Mysliwiec P, Buczko W.
Department of Pharmacodynamics, Medical Academy of Bialystok, Poland. dariuszpawlak@poczta.onet.pl
BACKGROUND: Kidneys are involved in tryptophan (TRP) metabolism in two ways. They eliminate TRP derivatives on the one hand, and they produce several enzymes taking part in TRP metabolism mainly via the kynurenine pathway on the other. The aim of the present study was to examine the time-course of changes in the peripheral kynurenine products degradation during experimental chronic renal failure in rats. METHODS: Tryptophan, kynurenine, 3-hydroxykynurenine, kynurenic acid, xanthurenic acid, anthranilic acid and quinolinic acid were determined in plasma using high-performance liquid chromatography technique with UV, fluorescence and electrochemical detection. RESULTS: A decreased TRP level and significant increase in kynurenine pathway metabolite concentrations in plasma of uremic rats were found. CONCLUSIONS: Substantial disturbances in the peripheral kynurenic pathway were observed in experimental chronic renal failure. They may contribute to several symptoms of uremia. Copyright 2002 S. Karger AG, Basel"
google for lots of info on
Also note kynurenine acid levels and schizophrenia are linked
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11684348&dopt=AbstractThat's why so far, I'm sticking to the foods..even if they ain't working too good so far
Jan
>
Posted by Francesco on November 19, 2003, at 15:20:31
In reply to TRYPTOPHAN some concerns with » Francesco , posted by tealady on November 18, 2003, at 5:28:48
Thanks for all the links and comments.
I didn't understand reading the links if tryptophan is supposed to be the cause of "interstitial cystitis" or if patient with it shouldn't take it.I'm asking because in the last three months I have had sever problems with polyuria (I'm going to see an urologist next monday) while I beginned to take tryptophan only one week ago.
In the recent past I tried also to begin to take Prozac and Anafranil (in two different occasions) and experienced similar syntoms (Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome).
Once again: is this syndrome supposed to be caused by tripthophan assumption or tripthophan assumption can “unmask” it ?
In the last two weeks I tried several different supplements and I seem to over-react (compared to the average of users) to every of them. I’m wondering if all this can be a sign of a renal problem.
Posted by tealady on November 19, 2003, at 20:27:33
In reply to renal problem ? » tealady, posted by Francesco on November 19, 2003, at 15:20:31
> Thanks for all the links and comments.
> I didn't understand reading the links if tryptophan is supposed to be the cause of "interstitial cystitis" or if patient with it shouldn't take it.No..that doc specialised in IC for a while...treated thru amino acids and diet etc.,researched, wrote many papers,and a book on it. ( I "think" her IC diet is very different to the higher protein, tyrosine supps I'm on, not sure though)
She was only referring to when she did treat these patients she did amino acid profiles...and that she personally is uncomfortable with using tryptophan because some individuals(not all) may metabolize it into undesirable byproducts...as well as the EMS thing.
>
> I'm asking because in the last three months I have had sever problems with polyuria (I'm going to see an urologist next monday) while I beginned to take tryptophan only one week ago.
>Did you change anything 3 months ago? Start any new supps/drugs/ aminos? around that time? Anything change in the past 4 or 5 months even as it can take a while for levels to build up?
> In the recent past I tried also to begin to take Prozac and Anafranil (in two different occasions) and experienced similar syntoms (Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome).
Perhaps you have highish serotonin levels anyway?
>
> Once again: is this syndrome supposed to be caused by tripthophan assumption or tripthophan assumption can “unmask” it ?
>I don't think it's an unmasking thing.
I would THINK that EMS could be detected by a blood test for elevated eosinophils?...only guessing though.
And just from reading it seems it is saying that excess serotonin levels is dangerous in itself...
> In the last two weeks I tried several different supplements and I seem to over-react (compared to the average of users) to every of them. I’m wondering if all this can be a sign of a renal problem.I think that is probably jumping to conclusions, but ask your urologist when you see him for reassurance.
Some here are using larger doses than most would..as in orthomolecular psychiatry..but not everyone tolerates or metabolizes these supps the same.
Personally I can't tolerate more than 500mg tyrosine broken into 2 doses per day for example...and B6, I used to only be able to take around 25mg or I'd trigger a migraine. I also think a lot is about balance.
Having adequate magnesium and a multiB ( with say at least 25mg B5, B3 and 15mg B1,B6...or that level) helps. The B's are needed in helping your body utilize the serotonin/trypt. Probably some extra niacinamide and perhaps TMG?..then you could take LESS of the tryptophan and utilize it better. Have you tried taking a much lower amount?
I would also assume the levels would build up in your body?I really don't know much about this, just put it up for discussion. I do know I'm lowish on serotonin at present from symptoms, and I'm still considering tryptophan. I've just got other things to try first.
My personal view on the effects of pdrugs on my body is even more negative.
Jan
Posted by francesco on November 20, 2003, at 1:24:40
In reply to Re: renal problem ? » Francesco , posted by tealady on November 19, 2003, at 20:27:33
>
> She was only referring to when she did treat these patients she did amino acid profiles...and that she personally is uncomfortable with using tryptophan because some individuals(not all) may metabolize it into undesirable byproducts...as well as the EMS thing.Thanks. Now it's clear : )
> Did you change anything 3 months ago? Start any new supps/drugs/ aminos? around that time? Anything change in the past 4 or 5 months even as it can take a while for levels to build up?I changed a lot of stuff in the last months.
I began to have polyuria on July (so 5 months ago, exactly) in the short period I was taking Wellbutrin (I took Wellbutrin only for 10 ten days). Of course I can't be sure Wellbutrin is the cause. I took Wellbutrin for a couple of days, then I quit it for another couple of days and then I start it again for another week. In this second period, if my memory is correct, I began to have polyuria.> > In the recent past I tried also to begin to take Prozac and Anafranil (in two different occasions) and experienced similar syntoms (Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome).
> Perhaps you have highish serotonin levels anyway?
I have thought about it. What are according your knowledge the signs of an high serotonin level ?
The further problem is that I'm taking supplements for ADHD-like syntoms and the concentration seems better targeted by tryptophan than tyrosine. The same happened in the past for Anafranil which was terribly useful for concentration. (I mean for concentration ability to read, watchings movies and so on without being distracted).
> Personally I can't tolerate more than 500mg tyrosine broken into 2 doses per day for example...
Yeah, it was the same for me. I have never taken more than 500mg of tyrosine and for me was also more than enough !
> Having adequate magnesium and a multiB ( with say at least 25mg B5, B3 and 15mg B1,B6...or that level) helps.I have to check the content of my multivitamin-mineral complex. Thanks for all these precious info.
I do know I'm lowish on serotonin at present from symptoms, and I'm still considering tryptophan.
... and wich are the syntoms of low serotonin levels ? : )
In these days I've been trying EPA-DHA. So far it has been the best suplements I've taken in terms of cost/benefits and it helped with connection with others, energy level, mood and motivation.
Have you have tried it ?
Posted by DSCH on November 20, 2003, at 1:35:15
In reply to Re: renal problem ? » tealady, posted by francesco on November 20, 2003, at 1:24:40
I thought you were going to e-mail me or somefink? *quizzical look*
;-)
Good to hear the omega-3's are working out for you.
Posted by Francesco on November 20, 2003, at 16:53:36
In reply to Re: renal problem ? » francesco, posted by DSCH on November 20, 2003, at 1:35:15
Here you are know : )
I'm going to write you in the next half an hour
See you "in the mailbox" ;-)
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.