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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sonya on October 9, 2005, at 19:03:04
I wake every morning at either 2:15 or 3:15. My pdoc last Friday rx'd Trazodone (Desyrel) for sleep. I took the first 50mg pill last night and still woke at 3:15 and with symptoms of akathasia (especially restless legs). I used to experience akathasia alot on SSRI's so I recognize it for what it is.
I don't want to get dependant on Ambien or similar drug. Any suggestions?
My other meds: Wellbutrin 225mg, Depakote 500mg.
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2005, at 22:01:04
In reply to Sleep Aids, posted by Sonya on October 9, 2005, at 19:03:04
Lunesta non habit forming. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 10, 2005, at 0:54:49
In reply to Sleep Aids, posted by Sonya on October 9, 2005, at 19:03:04
Hi, Trazadone did the same to me and increasing the dosage didn't help. I take a low dose of Thorazine when I can't sleep and it helps. I take 25 mg. Patients used to take up to 1000 mg of this med so you can see, 25 mg isn't much ... Anyhow, I have tried a lot of meds for sleep and this one works the best for me. I don't use it every night ... only when I can't sleep. Often I just put up with my insomnia because I have been an insomniac since I was a child.
Maxime
> I wake every morning at either 2:15 or 3:15. My pdoc last Friday rx'd Trazodone (Desyrel) for sleep. I took the first 50mg pill last night and still woke at 3:15 and with symptoms of akathasia (especially restless legs). I used to experience akathasia alot on SSRI's so I recognize it for what it is.
>
> I don't want to get dependant on Ambien or similar drug. Any suggestions?
>
> My other meds: Wellbutrin 225mg, Depakote 500mg.
Posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 11:49:51
In reply to Sleep Aids, posted by Sonya on October 9, 2005, at 19:03:04
If Sleepness is stuffing up your life, perhaps a course of the, still available Seconal (Secobarbital) 100mgs(Red caps)is the answer
SECONAL-the gift of sleep
Posted by Tom Twilight on October 10, 2005, at 15:35:56
In reply to Seconal-the gift of sleep!, posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 11:49:51
Hey Sonya
Sorry your suffering from insomnia
It's a very annoying and depressing disorder, which I also have.I understand your concerns about becoming deppendent on Ambien, I take Zolpiderm occasionaly, but am also scared of deppendency.
I had a horrible time with Trazadone, and I don't understand why its such a popular drug for insomnia.
Fortunatly there are lots of other none deppendency forming options out there.
Lunesta sounds like a good option, although I haven't tried it.
My former favourite for insomnia is Remeron/Mirtazapine, it needs to be started at a very low dose, 7.5-15mg.
For me Remeron was a good sleep med, it intially caused a bad hangover but this does diminish with time, it not only improves sleep but also sleep quality.I started off using Remeron as a sleep aid, but ended up using it as an AD.
I quickly developed tollerance to its sedating effects when I took it on a continious basis, and it now doesn't work for me.Other options included the TCA Trimipramine, and Antipsychotics such as Seroquel.
Posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 15:47:28
In reply to There's loads of options, posted by Tom Twilight on October 10, 2005, at 15:35:56
> Hey Sonya
>
> Sorry your suffering from insomnia
> It's a very annoying and depressing disorder, which I also have.
>
> I understand your concerns about becoming deppendent on Ambien, I take Zolpiderm occasionaly, but am also scared of deppendency.
>
> I had a horrible time with Trazadone, and I don't understand why its such a popular drug for insomnia.
>
> Fortunatly there are lots of other none deppendency forming options out there.
>
> Lunesta sounds like a good option, although I haven't tried it.
> My former favourite for insomnia is Remeron/Mirtazapine, it needs to be started at a very low dose, 7.5-15mg.
> For me Remeron was a good sleep med, it intially caused a bad hangover but this does diminish with time, it not only improves sleep but also sleep quality.
>
> I started off using Remeron as a sleep aid, but ended up using it as an AD.
> I quickly developed tollerance to its sedating effects when I took it on a continious basis, and it now doesn't work for me.
>
> Other options included the TCA Trimipramine, and Antipsychotics such as Seroquel.Seroqual an AP-will knock you the f*ck out, expect to come round lunch time the following day!!
Posted by Sonya on October 10, 2005, at 18:12:03
In reply to Re: There's loads of options, posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 15:47:28
Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions.
I cut the Trazodone in half last night so took 25mg and it worked well. The only problem it seems to cause is (perhaps because I also take Wellbutrin SR) in the morning I have noticeable hand tremors and am uncoordinated. That's gone by afternoon.
I've been on Seroquel in the past and it worked wonders for sleep but I hate AP's because of risk of TD and weight gain. I'm also afraid of Remeron because of possible weight gain. I like the idea of Trazodone because of it's weight-neutral profile. Lately I'm pretty phobic about weight gain. Hopefully it'll keep working.
Sonya
Posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 20:24:03
In reply to Re: There's loads of options, posted by Sonya on October 10, 2005, at 18:12:03
> Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions.
>
> I cut the Trazodone in half last night so took 25mg and it worked well. The only problem it seems to cause is (perhaps because I also take Wellbutrin SR) in the morning I have noticeable hand tremors and am uncoordinated. That's gone by afternoon.
>
> I've been on Seroquel in the past and it worked wonders for sleep but I hate AP's because of risk of TD and weight gain. I'm also afraid of Remeron because of possible weight gain. I like the idea of Trazodone because of it's weight-neutral profile. Lately I'm pretty phobic about weight gain. Hopefully it'll keep working.
>
> SonyaIf insomnia is f*cking up your life, then you need a good sleep med. Forget APs or sedating ADs, you need a decent sleep med, like Seconal,(longer lasting than halcion) or a smilar decent decent sleep med!!
Demand a suitable solution!!!
Posted by rjlockhart98 on October 10, 2005, at 20:31:29
In reply to Enought!!, posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 20:24:03
Klonopin at 5-6mg will knock you near uncousiosness. VERY mentally potent. I took 6mg in one dose one time, i was so sedated to NOT even be depressed! NEVER DRIVE on that dose.
But the only problem, you get knocked out, but then wake up during the night around 5:30 and cannot go back to sleep.
Paul is right, seconal is a good sleeping pill but it has too many danm past blackboxes! Numbutal is heavan's awnser.
But anyways. Ask your doctor about Klonopin
Posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 21:02:47
In reply to Re: Enought!!, posted by rjlockhart98 on October 10, 2005, at 20:31:29
> Klonopin at 5-6mg will knock you near uncousiosness. VERY mentally potent. I took 6mg in one dose one time, i was so sedated to NOT even be depressed! NEVER DRIVE on that dose.
I was scripted Clonaz 2mg tabs at 1-3 daily. Sure it helped initially, but over time caused depression and other nasty effects. It's f*cking effective for panic, and maybe insomnia.Googluck
Posted by craiggetty on October 11, 2005, at 1:51:52
In reply to Clonazepam, posted by Paulbwell on October 10, 2005, at 21:02:47
I never felt rested with Trazodone - felt like I had a hangover. Plus, if I took it at the same time as a Wellbutrin, I would get very dizzy.
My doc just switched me to Sonata - 10mg. I haven't formed an opinion yet.
Posted by Sonya on October 11, 2005, at 7:44:45
In reply to Re: Enought!!, posted by rjlockhart98 on October 10, 2005, at 20:31:29
Hi, Matt
I used to take Klonopin for anxiety and sleep. Since my OD on Klonopin and Ativan last year, my pdoc won't rx any more sedatives. Actually I'm surprised he rx'd Trazodone because I know that's dangerous if OD'd on. It's stupid, but I like hording meds. I always think they're my safety net, that I'll need them some day if life becomes too unbearable.
Sonya
> Klonopin at 5-6mg will knock you near uncousiosness. VERY mentally potent. I took 6mg in one dose one time, i was so sedated to NOT even be depressed! NEVER DRIVE on that dose.
>
> But the only problem, you get knocked out, but then wake up during the night around 5:30 and cannot go back to sleep.
>
> Paul is right, seconal is a good sleeping pill but it has too many danm past blackboxes! Numbutal is heavan's awnser.
>
> But anyways. Ask your doctor about Klonopin
Posted by Sonya on October 11, 2005, at 7:47:01
In reply to Re: Clonazepam, posted by craiggetty on October 11, 2005, at 1:51:52
I used to take Sonata, but found it didn't last a full 8 hours. Does it seem to be working for you?
Posted by ed_uk on October 11, 2005, at 16:08:15
In reply to Sleep Aids, posted by Sonya on October 9, 2005, at 19:03:04
Hi,
Do you still take hydroxyzine? Does it help you sleep?
~Ed
Posted by Sonya on October 11, 2005, at 18:41:21
In reply to Re: Sleep Aids » Sonya, posted by ed_uk on October 11, 2005, at 16:08:15
> Hi,
>
> Do you still take hydroxyzine? Does it help you sleep?
>
> ~EdHi, Ed
I was taking hydroxyzine fairly regularly and it did help for sleep, but pdoc said Trazodone would be a better choice even though he also said the hydroxyzine is very safe. I didn't really understand his logic. Do you think Trazodone is safer? Maybe he thought I could use the additional AD to supplement Wellbutrin? I should ask him.
Sonya
Posted by Paulbwell on October 11, 2005, at 23:21:29
In reply to Re: Enought!!, posted by rjlockhart98 on October 10, 2005, at 20:31:29
> Klonopin at 5-6mg will knock you near uncousiosness. VERY mentally potent. I took 6mg in one dose one time, i was so sedated to NOT even be depressed! NEVER DRIVE on that dose.
>
> But the only problem, you get knocked out, but then wake up during the night around 5:30 and cannot go back to sleep.
>
> Paul is right, seconal is a good sleeping pill but it has too many danm past blackboxes! Numbutal is heavan's awnser.
>
> But anyways. Ask your doctor about KlonopinI was scripted Clonazepam up to 6mgs daily!!-amazing.
Barbiturates are heavily fought against-hysteria from the past.
Instead of all this crap about using sedating APs (risking EPMse) or sedating ADs. A barbiturate in the right case can be the ticket.Nembutal was the best, but no longer available. Secconal (100mg Red caps) are, or if that doesn't work, Tuinal (Seconbarbital+amytal)may.
these meds may be surpassd by newer hotshot pills, but have their place.
Posted by med_empowered on October 12, 2005, at 3:30:59
In reply to Barbiturates-Seconal- Tuinal, sleep, posted by Paulbwell on October 11, 2005, at 23:21:29
hey! Sorry your doc won't rx sedatives b/c of an overdose. Its a little weird, though--I've had friends who have done similar things, and once they're stable docs re-instate sedatives if needed. It seems kind of punitive to with hold them like that. Anyway, I f*cking hate trazadone...it doesn't work well as an antidepressant, the sleep isnt very good, and it causes priapism. Sedating antipsychotics just seem ridiculous. The drugs are expensive as hell, cause problems, and arent even intended for sleep...its stupid. Barbiturates can be helpful, if your doc is willing to prescribe them...there's seconal, tuinal, and I think alurate and phenobarbital are used as well. In benzo-land there's prosom, doral, halcion, restoril, and dalmane; usually, restoril is the one that's used. Remeron might actually be a good option; it can actually improve sleep (and possible help with sleep apnea) and the weight gain thing isn't as big a deal at higher doses (30-45mgs). Benadryl really is sometimes a good option. Personally, I hate the stuff, but if you responded well to hydroxyzine, 50-100mgs benadryl might do the trick (the antihistamine thing is probably what makes low-dose seroquel so sedating as well). Sometimes "alternative" stuff helps people...I've found that valerian+5-HTP+25-50mgs Benadryl works really well, without the side-effects of high-dose benadryl or hydroxyzine for sleep. Sonata and Ambien are good options; the only thing I dislike about sonata is its super fast action. Lunesta might be worth while, as well. Good luck!
Posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 3:42:23
In reply to Re: Barbiturates-Seconal- Tuinal, sleep, posted by med_empowered on October 12, 2005, at 3:30:59
> hey! Sorry your doc won't rx sedatives b/c of an overdose. Its a little weird, though--I've had friends who have done similar things, and once they're stable docs re-instate sedatives if needed. It seems kind of punitive to with hold them like that. Anyway, I f*cking hate trazadone...it doesn't work well as an antidepressant, the sleep isnt very good, and it causes priapism. Sedating antipsychotics just seem ridiculous. The drugs are expensive as hell, cause problems, and arent even intended for sleep...its stupid. Barbiturates can be helpful, if your doc is willing to prescribe them...there's seconal, tuinal, and I think alurate and phenobarbital are used as well. In benzo-land there's prosom, doral, halcion, restoril, and dalmane; usually, restoril is the one that's used. Remeron might actually be a good option; it can actually improve sleep (and possible help with sleep apnea) and the weight gain thing isn't as big a deal at higher doses (30-45mgs). Benadryl really is sometimes a good option. Personally, I hate the stuff, but if you responded well to hydroxyzine, 50-100mgs benadryl might do the trick (the antihistamine thing is probably what makes low-dose seroquel so sedating as well). Sometimes "alternative" stuff helps people...I've found that valerian+5-HTP+25-50mgs Benadryl works really well, without the side-effects of high-dose benadryl or hydroxyzine for sleep. Sonata and Ambien are good options; the only thing I dislike about sonata is its super fast action. Lunesta might be worth while, as well. Good luck!
I have taken many of the meds you have mentioned. THE BEST SLEEP I EVER HAD was after takng 2 100mg Seconal Caps-i awoke the next morning, with a rested brain. I believe Nembutal and Tuinal CAN be more effective. I havn't taken Ambien or Sonata.
Cheers
Posted by ed_uk on October 12, 2005, at 14:07:52
In reply to Re: Sleep Aids » ed_uk, posted by Sonya on October 11, 2005, at 18:41:21
Hi Sonya,
>Do you think Trazodone is safer?
No, I don't!
~ed xx
Posted by Sonya on October 12, 2005, at 14:40:09
In reply to Re: Sleep Aids » Sonya, posted by ed_uk on October 12, 2005, at 14:07:52
> Hi Sonya,
>
> >Do you think Trazodone is safer?
>
> No, I don't!
>
> ~ed xxEd, can you tell me why? Now I don't know what to do. My quality of sleep was really much better on hydroxyzine. On Trazodone 25mg I wake frequently but am able to go back to sleep. I didn't even wake up on hydroxyzine. Plus I'm pretty sure the Trazodone in conjunction with my other meds makes me dizzy and feeling uncoordinated in the morning.
I see pdoc next week and will tell him hydroxyzine worked better.
I'm pretty certain pdoc won't rx barbiturates if he won't rx benzos. He knows I have an addictive personality. I admit I did overuse benzos in the past but that was because I was always chasing the d*mn anxiety.
Posted by ed_uk on October 14, 2005, at 16:27:36
In reply to Re: Sleep Aids » ed_uk, posted by Sonya on October 12, 2005, at 14:40:09
Hi Sonya,
>Ed, can you tell me why?
On the contrary, I'd ask....... why not? There's no reason to believe that trazodone would be safer. Hydroxyzine is simply an antihistamine.
~Ed x
Posted by craiggetty on October 17, 2005, at 3:01:31
In reply to Re: Clonazepam » craiggetty, posted by Sonya on October 11, 2005, at 7:47:01
Hi Sonya,
For the past week I've been taking 10mg of Sonata at bedtime (around 1am). I wake up at around 5am, read for half an hour to an hour, and then go back to sleep until 10am. Before Sonata I would wake around 4am and wouldn't be able to go back to sleep (until my several naps throughout the day). I should mention that I recently increased my Wellbutrin from 200mg to 300mg so that is probably decreasing the effectiveness of the Sonata.
Craig
> I used to take Sonata, but found it didn't last a full 8 hours. Does it seem to be working for you?
This is the end of the thread.
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