Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 12:27:14
In reply to RE: SAMe, TMG, magnesium » tealady, posted by JLx on May 11, 2005, at 17:50:23
> I sure don't know. I thought that people there were suggesting that TMG is equivalent to SAM-e, so I thought if SAM-e helped you then that may too. BUT, there was also something there that had me thinking that if I wanted to duplicate SAM-e I should take methionine AND TMG.
TMG is a promoter of methionine formation from homocysteine. Taking methionine also would be redundant.
Either methionine or TMG would promote natural formation of SAMe, if and only if, the liver enzyme that does this job is up to the task. It could be defective. Or down-regulated for some reason. Or, you may be deficient in the coenzymes required to perform that synthesis.
In most people, TMG kills two birds with one stone. It restores the normal recycling of SAMe back to methionine via homocysteine, and, it reduces homocysteine concentrations that can cause circulatory damage and influence inflammatory responses.
The sulphur cycle has to function normally to maintain the supply of the materials needed for the trans-sulfuration pathway that terminates in taurine (via cysteine). It is my belief that depressed people suffer not only from SAMe-related problems, but also from taurine/cysteine deficiency-related problems.
> > I'd previously tried MSM and Glucosamine and Chondritin and it had no effect on me. I also tried 3 months of TAURINE at 500mg first thing in morning and I didn't notice much. I think it did help a little with anxiety..not sure. I tried this after the MSM and Glucosamine. I don't think there was any overlap..or not much.
>
> From what I remember about Larry's posts on the subject, that is not much taurine.No, it is not much taurine. Hardly enough to notice, IMHO, if you notice at all.
> > So that, to me, indicates I'm hitting on where my problem might lie.
> > I think having previously just taken the MSM and Glucosamine and taurine I might have had enough methyl stuff in my body?
>
> I don't think MSM is actually a methyl donor. Neither are glucosamine and taurine, are they?Don't see them on Sahelian's page on methyl donors: http://www.mind-boosters.com/chapter_10.htmlNo, none of those is a methyl donor. They share one characteristic: sulphur.
> It sounds like taurine, glucosamine and MSM are sulfur which can be used to increase synthesis of SAM-e, which is not the same thing even as a precursor.
I can't see any of those increasing SAMe in any way.
> When you took SAM-e then, it was a unique experience. I think I would definitely try the TMG.
>
> JLHere's a good review of the various essential sulphur compounds:
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/7/1/22.pdf
If that page won't open, go to: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11896744&query_hl=22
Just click on the button under the journal title.
The thing is, sulphur loves to oxidize. I think of depression as being characterized by excessive oxidation (oxidative stress). That's why antioxidants (e.g. polyphenols) and vitamins can have such effects as they do. That's why we need fish oil....our long chain PUFAs have been burned up (oxidized) long ago.Sulphur compounds are easy targets for oxidation. But sulphur bridges (or disulphide bonds across cystine residues) are essential for enzyme structure. Reactive sulphur aminos are in many enzyme active sites. Many antioxidants depend directly on sulphur activity (e.g. glutathione). Liver health depends on sulphur supply. Oxidation wrecks all this.
I think that sulphur supplementation is a good thing. It's in finding the balance.....too much too quickly makes you feel yucky, IMHO.
Perhaps a better angle is to unblock an internal logjam, i.e. homocysteine to methionine. TMG does that. B12 and folate do that together. A little cysteine (NAC) or taurine to smoothe out the load.
Hard to get it right, but really worth a try, IMHO.
Maybe a long-term SAMe supp is the answer for some.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:476058
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050510/msgs/500755.html