Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 7, 2005, at 21:42:59
In reply to Re: not that strong, posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2005, at 20:39:51
> > No Alex, frequently you are seeing an inconsistancy where there is none,
>
> frequently?
> i don't think i proclaim inconsistency all that often.
> i don't think i have proclaimed it in the small boards debateI suppose it's relative
>
> >and claiming "invalid" because it's something that is not understood by you.
>
> to say that an argument is invalid is to say that it is possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. thats what invalid means.I know what invalid means, I would not have used it in a sentance if I did not.
it applies to argument forms (ps and qs) rather than arguments in natural languages (ie english). it is true that there can be a problem of translation in translating arguments in natural language into their logical forms.Right, but that is not an aside, that's a huge component of internet communication, and certainly enough for there to be a great deal of doubt as to whether or not something is "invalid" or "contradictory"
Some things cannot always be explained, you will never truly know how an apple tastes to me.
> > As much as philosophy would like to concretize all forms of human expression, and understanding it cannot, and it will never discover a way to make all aspects of humanity math.
>
> you think this can't be done as a matter of principle?
> if the physical world, at base, is a mathematical function then why not human beings as well given that they are part of the physical world?If. I would have to ascribe to the premise in order to discuss the conclusion. I don't
>
> > Philosophy is a a drop in the bucket of awareness, perhaps one tool to be used in one's search further understanding, but to use little but a philisophical approach in order to declare an expression of both feeling and thought "valid" or "invalid" is like reading with your eyes closed.
>
> 'expressions of feeling and thought' are not candidates for validity and invalidity.But they are used in communication, communication is translated into argument.
It's the apple again.validity and invalidity applies to argument forms where an argument is a series of propositions (premises) offered in support of a conclusion. to say that an argument is valid is to say that if the premises are true then the conclusion must be true as well. it is to say that if one believes the premises are true then one should also believe the conclusion in order to avoid inconsistency. arguments are the only candidates for validity or invalidity. thoughts are not unless they are used to construct an argument. ideas are not unless they are used to construct an argument. sentances are not unless they are used to construct an argument.
I would love to see an argument constructed and communicated without thought, ideas, or feelings.
"Organized" Philosophy is very much a construct unto itself. When used right from the text I find it rather like shotput. If you aren't going into the olympics.. what application does it have?You use terms and methods that are specific to a Philisophical approach as if they are basic truths, or concepts. If I were a born again Christian, and conversed as if my truth was what everything stemmed from how palatable do you think you would find it?
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> up until the 60's it was fairly much thought that the function of language was to make truth evaluable claims about the world. philosophers fairly much assumed this. wittgenstein then talked about language games. he said that making claims about the mind independent world is one thing we do with language but we also do many other things with language. we give orders. we make requests. we ask questions. we express our experience. those aren't truth evaluable. they are not candidates for truth and falsity. though there is such a thing as speaking truely so it gets a little complicated...That was thought by philosophers, again one tiny aspect of things, hardly universal.
I simply don't believe it is up to you to declare a considered opinion invalid, contradictory, or illogical because they are unable to communicate the whole of their argument in a way satisfactory to you.
I am sorry that this has hurt you, but you can't have it both ways, you can't declare someone inconsistant (verging on hypocritical) completely discout their argumement, or finalize things by saying "And that's that" without expecting a response.
I don't think it's your ideas that are not appreciated, it's that you don't always come across as truly valuing the opinions or feelings of others.
>
poster:Gabbi-x-2
thread:500533
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050530/msgs/509416.html