Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2005, at 18:22:40
In reply to Re: not that strong » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 7, 2005, at 18:00:08
> > I'm used to keeping arguments going
> > Not so used to being diplomatic
> > And sensitive to other peoples pov
> I don't understand. It appears to me that most of the discussions, or arguments you've had on admin have been about hypothetical situations or potential situations wherein people might be hurt.Well... Yes.
But I try to look at the situation
At the best arguments from either side
And make a decision from there as to what I think.
Sometimes people think of points that I hadn't thoguht of.
I add them and think about them and weigh what I believe again.
And so for me arguing (which is sort of a technical term) is a rational process.
But emotions and how people feel etc become part of that too.
When you have to weigh costs to some and benefits to others.
The 'strength' of the feeling factors in when weighing the costs and benefits.
And... It is rational to take 'irrational' (and even non-rational) responses into account if you can predict that they are likely to occur...> But if you aren't accustomed to being diplomatic, or sensitive to the person with whom you are discussing the subject, you're likely hurting someone in reality, while arguing how not to hurt people theoretically. It seems contradictory to me.
I'm used to arguing with people who are doing that same process... We use the same process and sometimes (actually most times) come to a different result.
So then we look at the factors that we considered before making our decisions.
Sometimes there is a relevant factor that someone didn't consider and once they are made aware of it they change what they think.
Sometimes there is a flaw in one of the arguments and once that is brought to the persons attention they change what they think.In philosophy we don't much go in for 'it is all subjective' or 'different people just have different values' because it PREVENTS arguments it rules them out. There is no point arguing because people are really talking about different things.
What you need to do is agree on a backdrop first. So xxx things count as polite and xxx things count as impolite and everyone agrees and everyone agrees that politeness = good and impoliteness = bad and then what is left to argue about is whether the particular thing you are discussing counts as being polite or not. How it is similar or different to the things that were agreed on as being part of the politeness or impoliteness list or whatever.
Getting to the heart of the dispute is the point.
Drag out the common ground and find the precise point of disagreement.It doesn't work out that everyone always agrees (philosophers have disagreed with each other for centuries) but it does work in a hell of a lot of cases...
But...
I buy into that process.
I think it is a worthwhile thing to do.
We think of it as a way of getting to the truth
Because 'the truth' is what interests us.
That is what the process of argument is about.But people don't talk just to argue.
There are other considerations than 'truth'.
Maintining friends is one.
And I have to remember that my world view is rather odd really.
Thats why I alienate most people.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:500533
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050530/msgs/509281.html