Posted by SLS on November 12, 2009, at 7:35:06
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2009, at 17:30:44
> Depression is everything you and I know it to be, consistent with the symptoms listed in DSM. Either one symptom or multiple symptoms. The problem occurs when an unsusptected disease manifests itself primarily as depression, and yet that primary disease goes undiagnosed or unrecognized.
Ok. Then, for you, the word "depression" is a symptom or symptom cluster rather than a disease.
Now, you see, I believe that major depressive disorder (MDD) is a disease whose symptom cluster is approximated by the primitive diagnostic algorithm contained in the DSM IV. Do other diseases present similarly to MDD? Yup. Not too long from now, differential diagnostic procedures will use biomarkers to confirm MDD. This might be in the form of neuroimaging or the assay of gene activity as can be ascertained using microarrays.
> > > I think it will be 50 to 100 years before the theories...both pro and con...can be debated with any sense of scientific body.
> >
> > What theories? What do you mean by "pro and con"?
>
> By pro I mean some people strongly praise meds as the way to go, while the cons (like Breggin) attack them. You are a strong pro, I am a modest pro, Breggin is a con.This is where I think it is necessary to parse one declaration at a time. It would be informative to select one of Breggin's claims and detail the biological evidence that he uses to support it. I don't think we need to wait 50 - 100 years to be able to repudiate or confirm his assertions.
> > What about bipolar disorder (BD)?
>
> Borrelia and cousins, Candida and cousins, immune dysregulation, and toxic burden can all manifest as bipolar symptoms. Just off the top of my head as the most common and easy to explain why the symptoms occur, I am sure there are others.Drugs can do it, too. Prednisone can produce manic, depressive or schizoid reactions. Even clonidine (Catapress), a common hypotensive, is known to be depressogenic. As you say, bipolar "symptoms". Yes, other conditions can present symptoms that look like bipolar disorder. That does not make BD any less of a singular entity.
> > > but in the support of ADs, the right one can actually reverse the disease...
> >
> > What is the disease? Does major depressive disorder (MDD) count?
>
> I don't know. Is chronic diarrhea a disease?Since you are so quick to attribute mood symptoms to various diseases of miscellaneous biological systems, why are you so slow to acknowledge the existence of psychiatric disorders of the brain? I am sure you have seen the evidence for this described over and over on this forum.
Maybe I was not direct enough in the questions I posed you. Perhaps you could answer a few now? Regardless of how many different pathologies there are that might present with psychiatric symptoms:
1. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as major depressive disorder?
2. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as bipolar disorder?
3. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as schizophrenia?
- Scott
poster:SLS
thread:925110
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20091107/msgs/925450.html