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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:45
In reply to Re: Barely got any studying done today :-( *trig*, posted by Deneb on October 1, 2005, at 20:33:52
Deneb, you must call your doc. This has been bothering you a long time. Are you still taking the resperidol? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:45
In reply to Barely got any studying done today :-(, posted by Deneb on October 1, 2005, at 19:49:02
Hi there, Deneb,
Phillipa is right. It's important to call your doctor for several reasons, one of which is that you might need an adjustment or "tweaking" of your medications. Although they are helping you, it's also possible that your current meds MIGHT be having unwanted side effects, such as apathy and fatigue. That can happen with either of those drugs, and the combination of the two might increase those side effects. That doesn't mean you can't take those meds. It might mean that the doctor can adjust the dosages or add something that can help energize and motivate you. Please explain to the doctor what you've told us, i.e., that school and science are VERY important to you, you want and need to do well, but because of the procrastination, amotivation and fatigue, you've been going through some pretty scarey moments, feeling desperate and panicky. Be sure to tell him how you just feel like sleeping all day, yet this is a very important point in the semester, so he must help you NOW!
I'm really sorry that Hammy isn't opening his eyes. Maybe he got some saw dust or dirt in them and developed an infection? Perhaps the vet can rx some ointment to put on his eyes.
Please take good care of yourself and call the doctor PRONTO! Don't blame yourself for symptoms that might very well be side effects of the medicines.
S.
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:45
In reply to Re: Deneb, yoo-hoo. . .listen to me. . . » Deneb, posted by Sarah T. on October 1, 2005, at 23:00:11
> Hi there, Deneb,
>
> Phillipa is right. It's important to call your doctor for several reasons, one of which is that you might need an adjustment or "tweaking" of your medications. Although they are helping you, it's also possible that your current meds MIGHT be having unwanted side effects, such as apathy and fatigue.Hmmm...maybe you are right. When I did really well in the fall of 2004, I wasn't on any medication. I was much more anxious, but I found that it motivated me to study. Then I got *too* anxious the next semester because my social anxiety went through the roof, turning into paranoia at times.
I just experimented on reading posts on this suicide newsgroup and I don't feel the same obsession I usually have with death. That's good. So, right now I have less anxiety overall and don't think about killing myself or feel the urge to die, but I still have some very poor coping mechanisms.
I really don't want to die, I just get desperate when I don't study and procrastinate. I'm not worried most of the time about studying and do other things that are more enjoyable at the moment. Then suddenly comes the realization that I really need to study and then I get anxious.
You're right Sarah, I'll tell my p-doc about this procrastination thing, but I don't have to call him right away. I have an appointment on Weds.
I'm still running out of options, I think I will go to the urgent care clinic tomorrow morning and tell them I have thoughts of harming myself (which is the truth). I'm prepared to be locked up again, but I don't care, as long as this stress goes away. I just hope I will recover quickly enough to do some actual studying.
Deneb
P.S. Hammie just woke up not too long ago and his eyes are much much better. His left eye is completely open and clear now. His right eye is still a little closed, but it is a lot better than yesterday. I think he is OK. He is playing and eating as usual and doesn't seem to be in any pain.
Posted by lynn970 on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:45
In reply to Re: Deneb, yoo-hoo. . .listen to me. . . » Sarah T., posted by Deneb on October 1, 2005, at 23:32:11
Just wanted to give you a hug.
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: ((((Deneb)))), posted by lynn970 on October 1, 2005, at 23:34:34
Hopefully I will be able to get a note tomorrow. If I don't and I don't come back, you can probably assume that I'm in the hospital.
I need more help than I'm getting for school. I think after this ordeal I will go to the peer help centre and maybe request a study partner or tutor or anything...I know that will help me study on a regular basis. I'm determined to graduate next year.
It is a very strange thing...anxiety. I don't know if I have too little or not enough of it right now.
Deneb
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: What will happen, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 0:42:43
can i say "snap out of it" without being uncivil deneb?
go to the hospital..but school will still be there...you want to graduate? hang tight ..hang tight...
are you terrified of failing..or terrified of becoming something you do not wish to be?
"should i stay or should i go now"...what a question...can anyone truely answer?
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb, yoo-hoo. . .listen to me. . . » Sarah T., posted by Deneb on October 1, 2005, at 23:32:11
Hi Deneb,
It's important for the doctor to fully understand that you're in school, taking a full load of interesting but difficult science classes, and they are very important to you. The doctor must know that although the current meds are alleviating some of the ruminating thoughts, the meds might also be aggravating your tendency to procrastinate, and when that happens, your anxiety returns in full force. When that happens, you start having those negative thoughts for which those meds were prescribed, and the whole thing becomes a vicious cycle. Tell him exactly what you just told me about studying well last year when you weren't on any meds, but then, later, your anxiety got the better of you. I think it's possible that the doctor could substitute one drug for another. For example, perhaps he can rx something that will deal with your anxiety WITHOUT causing the apathy and amotivational syndromes that are characteristic of many SSRI's, including Celexa. There are other anti-depressants and anti-anxiety agents that can address your symptoms without causing that, "Ah, what the heck, Who Cares?" attitude. A few years ago, I read a journal article about this problem with ssri's. The writer kept referring to the "lack of appropriate anxiety" that often occurs while on them. He wrote about a patient who'd gotten several traffic tickets and was in danger of losing his license, but he had NO worry or anxiety about it. There should have been some concern. This "What, Me Worry?" attitude was totally out of character for the patient before he was placed on an ssri.
It's important for you to have some of those intrusive, negative thoughts alleviated, but if the medications are going to prevent you from doing what you love to do (science, studying, etc.), then, in the long run, not studying will create more anxiety and panic, and you might feel bad about yourself. You need to feel good about yourself, and it seems that you are able to do that when you are actively engaged in your courses. Ask the doctor if he can think of something that will cut back on the intrusive thoughts but that WON'T interfere with your schoolwork or your motivation to do it.
As you know, Celexa is a very selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Unfortunately, when serotonin increases in certain parts of the brain, dopamine is often decreased in the parts of the brain involved in motivation and long-term planning, etc. There's just something about the mechanism of ssri's that causes this problem. But there are other antidepressants that can affect serotonin without causing the simultaneous lowering of dopamine. There are also anti-anxiety agents (anxiolytics) that can calm your nerves without turning you into a wimpy couch potato.
One other thing. . . I know Hammy is very important to you because I have pets, and I love them so much. However, right now, your most important duty is to yourself. You need to get your meds straightened out so you can do the things you want and need to do. I'm not telling you to ignore Hammy. I just think you need to have a list of priorities and try to keep those priorities in mind.
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb, yoo-hoo. . .listen to me. . . » Deneb, posted by Sarah T. on October 2, 2005, at 0:57:29
I will refer to myself in the third person so as to minimize triggers.
Deneb did it, and she's a manipulative bitch for doing so.
Deneb basically threatened to OD unless she got a note. She got extremely upset... hyperventilated etc. She almost got sent to the hospital. The doc was really conflicted...Deneb doesn't think she knew what to do. Deneb had to sign a "no harm contract".
Deneb got her note, but she feels like crap. Deneb is so manipulative she doesn't deserve to ____. Deneb doesn't even care about the note anymore, she can't believe she did such a horrible thing. She's having thoughts of ending it all now.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Almost got sent to the hospital :-( *trigger*, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 13:17:47
I'm going to study now. My Mom and aunt are here. I think I'm going to write the molecular biology midterm. I don't have that much more to study for in that class.
This way I will feel less guilty about my note.
I'm going to try to study for the organic chem as much as possible, but I think I will have to use the note for this class.
Hmmm...actually I didn't even get a note. The doctor said she was going to send the note over to the faculty. I think I'm OK now...I started getting bad thoughts again, but they are gone now. I'm going to the peer help centre tomorrow to see if they can provide study partners or something. I need a lot of help.
In my "no harm contract", I promised to see my p-doc on Weds. I don't see the point of "no harm contracts."
Deneb
Posted by holymama on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 13:50:39
I don't understand why the doctor who saw you didn't get you some counseling.
I know the mental health system is screwed up, but it really disturbs me when I hear that doctors don't deal with mental health issues appropriately.
Going in with a threat to OD is a sure cry for help and that doctor should know that.
I'm sorry, Deneb, I feel like you are not getting the help that you need. I know what it's like to be young and have your mind feel chaotic and not know what to do about it. This is when others should step in and help. Especially professionals and especially when you are making an obvious call for help.
I hope the note at least relieves some anxiety so you can focus.
~Autumn~
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now » Deneb, posted by holymama on October 2, 2005, at 18:22:39
Deneb feels extremely guilty for what she did today. Deneb was manipulative and put the doctor in a horrible position. Deneb feels like she needs to be punished for her behaviour. Deneb feels like she needs to OD again. Deneb has ruined her life. Deneb is never going to make anything of herself. Deneb will never graduate if this goes on. Deneb is a horrible person for being so manipulative all the time.
No one should believe Deneb when she says she wants to kill herself. Deneb is always manipulative. Deneb is a horrible person. There is only on way to prove that Deneb is really suffering. Deneb has ruined her life with her manipulations of people. Deneb doesn't deserve to life.
Deneb feels very very bad right now. Does Deneb really want to die? Deneb doesn't think so, but how is Deneb going to get rid of her guilt? How can Deneb get rid of her guilt?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now?, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 19:04:12
Methinks Deneb can be Deneb's own worst enemy...
When crisis hits...
It can be really very hard to figure out what to do.
That is why it can be helpful to have a crisis plan that is worked out between you and your doctor during a time when things are going well.
I know that the absolute last thing you want to do is think about hard times when times are good.
But it really can be worthwhile because it is so much easier to come up with a sensible plan when you are not in crisis.
Because when you are not in crisis you can think very sensibly indeed and are in a really good place to help figure out a best course of action for when things get bad.Now in the past...
When you were in a similar crisis situation...
You took an OD.
This time...
You didn't take an OD.
You went to see the doctor.
And so I really have to sayWELL DONE YOU!!!!!
Really :-)
Okay... So things didn't go as well as they might have been able to go... But things have improved a WHOLE HEAP. And you can see that things could be able to go a lot better... And for that WELL DONE YOU!!!!! Again.
:-)
So...
How can you be rid of your guilt???
I guess the first step is appreciating that YOU are feeling guilty for your actions.
But please don't let the guilt lead you to do something stupid because this time around you have been around a million times smarter than last time around.So that is progress.
Really.
I think that you would have the right to feel pleased with yourself for seeing the doctor over ODing.
And that you can feel pleased with yourself for that WHILE AT THE SAME TIME appreciating that things didn't go exactly perfectly... And that next time around you want the situation to go better still.
But for it to go better the next time around...
You really are going to have to have a look at what happened when this feeling has passed.I would say...
That in reparation...
You could write a note to the doctor.
About how sometimes you feel really panicky about things...
And about how very important it is to you to get through this...
And about how you think you have improved because you didn't OD this time - instead you contacted him.
And about how you appreciate that things didn't go perfectly.
And about how you would like to figure out a plan of action for crisis situations so that next time around things can go better still.Hang in there...
And remember...
Sometimes Deneb is Deneb's own worst enemy...
:-)
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 19:29:43
I must agree with Alex, good for you for going to the doctor!!
Hang in there
Posted by Tamar on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now?, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 19:04:12
> I will refer to myself in the third person so as to minimize triggers.
>
> Deneb did it, and she's a manipulative bitch for doing so.I don’t think you’re a manipulative bitch.
> Deneb basically threatened to OD unless she got a note. She got extremely upset... hyperventilated etc. She almost got sent to the hospital. The doc was really conflicted...Deneb doesn't think she knew what to do. Deneb had to sign a "no harm contract".
It may be a good thing that you signed a ‘no harm contract’. In a way it means you have to think about it before you seriously consider harming yourself. Oh yeah, and also it means people want you to live.
> Deneb got her note, but she feels like crap. Deneb is so manipulative she doesn't deserve to ____. Deneb doesn't even care about the note anymore, she can't believe she did such a horrible thing. She's having thoughts of ending it all now.
To be honest, Deneb, I don’t think you were manipulative. You have been having suicidal thoughts because of the stress of the forthcoming midterms. What you did wasn’t horrible; it was a re-enactment of how you have really felt on occasion in the last few days. It wasn’t a lie. It was true. So you’re not manipulative.
But the payoff is (in my humble opinion): you need to listen to yourself. The question is this: do you deserve help? And the answer is: Yes. You deserve help. You haven’t asked for anything outrageous. You have only asked for what you need. Now the hard part: accepting that you need help. Accepting that it’s OK to get help.
I hope you feel better soon. I want to hear great things in ten years about how you’ve discovered a new galaxy or something like that!
Tamar
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 19:29:43
I'm thinking about this now, of what I did before and what I did this time...and you are right...I did better.
I still did a bad thing, but I didn't do as bad a thing as last time. Last time I hurt a lot of people. This time I didn't hurt as many people. Last time I wasted precious hospital resources for 6 days....this time it cost the health care system only 1 doctor's appointment. Last time I ruined my semester, this time I didn't.
:-) I feel a little less guilty now. Compared to what I did last time, this time I should feel less guilty.
I feel like it is unfair to the other students, but I think maybe I shouldn't feel as bad about this anymore....because, I've been punished enough by my disorder. It is not nearly as bad as cheating (which I've never done). I think, I need to make the best of my situation...to try to find the path which leads to the most favourable outcome for all people.
ODing will not alleviate my guilt...it will make me feel more guilty in the end because I will hurt people if I OD. I will hurt myself, my family, my doctors, and the other patients in the hospital if I OD.
I'm going to try hard to find a study partner tomorrow. I don't have any friends so I will try the peer help centre. Last resort I'll have to pay for a tutor to be my study partner. I have to make the best of my situation.
Thanks Alexandra, I'm amazed at how helpful you are to me.
Deneb
Posted by JenStar on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now?, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 19:04:12
Deneb,
from what you write, it sounds like you believe that you are manipulative, and that you are trying to come up with an excuse to avoid finals/studying.If it's true that you're manipulating the situation, I think you need to consider why you are doing this, and how you got into this position?
I'd also consider -- what will happen next time you have tests/finals? What will happen when you get a job in the "real world" and face a deadline? What will happen when you are in a tough position to deliver some work projects?
If you don't learn now how to deal with stress appropriately, you won't be able to succeed in the real world. As you get older and more responsible, people will cease to be tolerant of these "episodes" and will stop giving you second chances when they happen.
You need to develop coping skills NOW, and time management skills NOW, so that you don't run yourself into a corner and worry about "saving face" by doing something drastic.
It seems that you feel that you'll either be labeled "stupid" b/c you failed a test, or "crazy" for OD'ing. And it seems that you're really afraid of doing poorly in school, so you'd rather suffer the stigma of a mental disorder.
I think the ideas you brought up before -- study partner, etc. are good ones. I'd also encourage you to read books on time management, or discuss ways to better manage your time (studying especially!) with your therapist or p-doc.
It sounds, and I know I could be wrong, that you're feeling hysterical because you didn't study as much as you KNOW you could have, and now you're trying to find a way out without having to take the tests. I don't think this is the right way!
I hope you are doing OK. If you fail tests, you can retake the clases. It's not ideal, but you can still pass and get a good job. It's not the end of the world. If I were an employer, I'd rather hire an employee that did poorly initially but fixed the issue by studying and eventually doing well, than someone who procrastinates and then develops huge issues and monumentous self-inflicted illnesses to deal with it. The former would, in my opinion, be more reliable.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but in the real world that's the kind of decision people are going to make! And it seems as if you're still at the point where you're testing out various methods of coping. I'm just really, really encouraging you NOT to do the self-harm method, because in the long run that's not going to be good for you.
I hope you're well. take care.
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » Deneb, posted by JenStar on October 2, 2005, at 22:19:19
I don't think I'm entirely OK yet. I'm getting quite upset on and off.
I think right now I have to concentrate on not ODing and studying. I can't face analyzing the situation right now.
I know you are really trying to help me JenStar, the length of your reply shows me that. I just don't think I'm stable enough right now to concentrate on the things I did wrong.
I'm sorry I'm not good at handling "tough love."
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » JenStar, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 22:38:29
I don't know what happened to me.
I'm trying to avoid life.
I don't want to live...it is too scary...the real world is too scary.
I can't face the real world. I don't want to live long.
I just realized that I will never fit into the real world. It *is* hopeless for me. I don't want to live anymore.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: I wasn't always a procrastinator *trig*, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 23:00:14
> I don't want to live...it is too scary...the real world is too scary.
> I just realized that I will never fit into the real world. It *is* hopeless for me. I don't want to live anymore.
I agree, the world is a scary place...
Thats why I take refuge here
And in academia
Because there are some nice people over there.
And it is those nice people
Who make life worth living for me.When I was going through a really hard time
A really bad patch
And I really didn't believe in myself
And I really didn't believe in my ability to ever create a life worth living for myself
I had a terrific DBT therapist.
For 8 months.
And then she was gone...
But she helped me immensely
And I still carry her around as a little voice in my head
And she still talks to me
And sometimes she talks to you
Because I have to pass that foward...For me...
It is the people
The random acts of kindness
Because they careIt won't always seem this way
Really
And this first semester will be the hardest
Because next time around you will be able to say
'I did it last time so I KNOW I can do it this time'
And you will get there
Really
:-)
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: I wasn't always a procrastinator *trig* » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2005, at 0:00:29
I'm starting to lose hope that things will ever be OK for me.
I marvel at just how little meds do for me. Why is that? Why is BPD is darn difficult to treat? What is wrong with me? Is there anything wrong?
Please give me hope that things are going to get better.
I gotta go to bed now...still depressed. It's 2:39 am right now.
Deneb
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 1:43:14
Deneb, in the post above, you wrote, "I marvel at just how little meds do for me." That is most likely because you are not on the right meds yet or perhaps your current meds or med dosages need some adjustment. I do hope you will read or re-read my post above, the first one I wrote on October 2nd in this thread. It's very important for your doctor to understand what's going on with you. He needs a complete picture in order to help you.
As for diagnostic labels, frankly, I'd stay away from them, or just let your doctor use them for insurance purposes (or whatever they do in Canada). What's most important is that you find a really good therapist who can help you to deal with your feelings in more appropriate, constructive ways. The next most important thing, after finding a therapist, is to find a good psychopharmacologist (it might turn out to be the same person as the talk therapist) who can work with you to find the right medicine cocktail so that you can focus on your studies and do the things that make you feel good about yourself. In the post above, I spoke about the apathy and amotivational syndromes characteristic of ssri's. One of the problems associated with that side effect (apathy and amotivation) is that the very nature of the problem makes it less likely that the patient will report it to the doctor!
I'm hoping this week is better for you. When in doubt, study!
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 1:43:14
> I marvel at just how little meds do for me.
You have only just started on them...
You don't know how things would be going if you weren't taking your meds... Maybe taking those meds is what enabled you to make the wise decision to go see your doctor vs the ultimately unhelpful decision to take another OD... Whether they help or not will only emerge with time...>Why is that? Why is BPD is darn difficult to treat?
Because you need some therapy sweetie. Meds are only of limited effectiveness. More effective still is the right combination of meds and therapy together.
Sometimes... You find that people off the boards say things that really help you. Help you see things a bit differently. Help you with some practical suggestions of things to do. Help you with some coping strategies. The boards are wonderful, but there is only so much that we can do. If you were able to get yourself a DBT therapist then you would get MORE stuff like that. And not only suggestions for coping strategies but also radically new ones that people have to SHOW you how to implement.
>What is wrong with me? Is there anything wrong?
Sometimes you spin out a little with stress / pressure. Most people respond to stress like that. It is just that some people respond more intensely and have trouble returning to emotional baseline.
> Please give me hope that things are going to get better.
Other people can't give you hope...
That is something YOU have to muster...
But that being said sometimes other people can help YOU find it...You have been here before
You have been places that were worse than where you are at now
And you pulled through those times
Things got a lot better
And you started saying that there wasn't anything wrong with you (or your ability to cope)
That there wasn't anything wrong at all.
And the moral is...
That things do get bad sometimes
And that when things get bad it feels like they always (or mostly) are that way
That things will never properly get better
That there isn't really any hope
But things do get better
They always do
And when they are better one forgets that times get so very hard at other times
State dependent memory
Everybody has that
But it is more pronounced when the states are more extreme / intenseThings will get better
Couple of days...
If you can just hang in there for a couple of days...
Exams are stressful for everyone
But when you get through this semester
That will be a major milestone towards what it is that you really want
And you CAN do it
It is just that sometimes...
You can be your own worst enemy
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2005, at 3:13:13
be gentle with yourself
do something nice for yourself
and try to remember...
that you CAN do this
that other people believe in you
and that one day...
you will come to believe in yourself
Posted by 10derHeart on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2005, at 3:14:23
Dear Deneb,
I really, really believe you are ultimately going to be much better.
I really do.
I hope you can take a LOT from alex's words, and Sarah T's also. They are both giving you some wonderful advice and support.
I see you as this bright, caring sweet person - a bundle of beautiful potential in this world. I see the promise there, that just needs some extra help.
I am SO impressed with your choices lately! You went to the doctor. You kept posting here. You're trying to take your meds. You've done some great studying. You've reached out for help with Hammy, even during all this stress. You've dealt with your mom- who can be a big challenge! I say - wow! Deneb has come a long way. Please don't forget all the good that's happening.
You hang in there. Talk to that pdoc and tell him very specific things about your feelings and patterns, like Sarah T. said. Perhaps the Celexa (that's right, isn't it?) is totally the wrong med for you. There are many ADs out there, and many combos. Give this guy a chance to help you - I'll bet he want very much to do that :-)
Continuing in the tradition of the third person...;-)...Deneb is getting better!
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by 10derHeart on October 3, 2005, at 10:35:16
(((((((Everyone))))))))
Thanks everyone for supporting me these couple of days. I know I've been a little draining on the community. I hope to be able to help others really soon.
I don't have time right now to respond to everyone, but I will later on today. I'm feeling a bit better now. I'm at school, printing out notes for my class in 15 mins.
((((((((((((Everyone))))))))))))))
Deneb
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