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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2008, at 12:27:32
In reply to Re: Bullies, posted by TexasChic on July 12, 2008, at 21:03:10
It also occurs to me, although I admit total ignorance on the topic, that there is a lot of talking going on in your office about what's going on in your office. Perhaps my husband's stance of obliviousness is a wise one to make in action, even if it can't be accomplished in feelings or thoughts. If others in your office are talking about office politics or your boss, maybe the best part of valor would be to feign ignorance and change the topic to last night's tv or some project you're working on? If your coworkers are talking a lot about your boss and other coworkers and various relations between them, I wouldn't count on them not talking about you to, for example, your boss. Not even directly, but just let something slip. Maybe even third hand.
I have discovered even in my small office that coworkers are coworkers, not friends really. They might be friendly coworkers, but it's a different dynamic. It could be painful to look upon them as friends and have them turn out to be just friendly coworkers. Their main purpose in being there is to earn their pay and do their jobs. Friendship is secondary. I wouldn't put too much reliance on friendships forged under those conditions.
I'm not suggesting that you be paranoid. Most people aren't malicious. Most people mean well and try to be helpful and friendly. But it might be a good idea to be wary of interoffice talk.
One thing I do remember about my books on bullies is that bullies thrive in an environment of alliances. So it might be a good idea to steer clear of them as much as possible.
And, like I said, I've never worked in a big office, so I may be totally ignorant of what goes on.
Posted by TexasChic on July 13, 2008, at 12:36:00
In reply to Okay, I've had a good cry, posted by TexasChic on July 12, 2008, at 15:51:52
This is the letter I wrote her but didn't send.
For the last two years, you and I have discussed our numerous problems with our boss. You are the one person who REALLY knows how unreasonable she is, what these past two years have been like, and what I have gone through. You even told me your husband calls her psycho bitch because of all he has heard from you about her.
I told you two months ago that I felt like our boss was planing to write me up, and nothing I could do would change that. You told me to be sure and document everything. Unfortunately I was too busy trying to live up to our boss's unreasonable demands to do much documenting. I told you when I saw she went to HR that it was about me. You said you would try to find out what was going on.
She then took you out to an early impromptu lunch without saying anything to me. I was sitting there for 30 minutes waiting for you two to come back in so I could go. Since I found that suspicious I called you later that day. You never returned the call.
Then I find my action plan on the public printer (when our boss has one in her office) just laying there for who knows how long for everyone to see. There were several copies, and somebody had put one of them on the table where we lay stuff that has been setting on the printer for a long time without being picked up. Once again I tried to remain the professional and just went back to my work.
After this our boss starts acting especially nice to me, although it was transparently fake. I couldn't help but wonder what you would think of all this. Then I see you at the store and I wait for you to say something about it. You never did, so I thought you must not know about it! So I tell you what happened, and you nonchalantly say, "Oh yeah, [our boss] told me about that." You knew all that time that I had found my action plan on the printer, and not only did you never bother to contact me and maybe see how I was, you pretend nothing was going on when you did see me! I was so shocked I turned around and walked out. I almost got to my car when I realized I needed to act professionally, go back in there, and make it through that lunch. So I did, and I got to sit there and hear all about you and our boss going out and getting drunk. It took every bit of my self control to remain there.
I feel completely betrayed by you. I can't believe I was ever stupid enough to trust you! When I think of all those times I confided in you - you probably told our boss everything! Its obvious to me now that you are just as fake as our boss. But you're even worse, because you're not only two faced, but you're also a coward who won't stand up for a person you know is being mistreated, when you are the one person who could confirm everything. You have hurt me way worse than our boss ever could, because I trusted you.
I needed to tell you these things. I needed to express how I felt about you. I can still work with you, but I don't have to like you. Don't pretend to be my friend when you obviously aren't.
Posted by TexasChic on July 13, 2008, at 13:00:14
In reply to Re: Bullies, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2008, at 12:27:32
No, everything you said makes sense. I really only completely confided in my coworker that I wrote the letter to above, but its obvious now I shouldn't have trusted her. But its so hard when you're being mistreated and somebody acts compassionate! But other than her I have kept this all to myself until recently, when I felt I may need some witnesses, which is why I've started speaking to others about it. But yeah, it sounds like your husband has the right idea. But it seems like its easier for men to get away with that attitude. However, I could probably do it if I really tried. In fact I really did try at first. I didn't tell my coworker anything personal for the entire first year we worked together. It was her that finally came to me to talk about the problems she was having with our boss.
I'm so confused right now. I think I should get out of there and get another job, but then I think I need to stay and stand up for myself rather than go somewhere else only to have it repeat all over again.
I decided yesterday I was going to go do something today, like go to the bookstore and Walmart, and try to stop obsessing. I have a little money set aside to spend, and I have gotten into the bad habit of never leaving the house when I'm off work. So that's what I'm going to do now. Thanks everyone for your advice and for listening. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
-T
Posted by Kath on July 13, 2008, at 19:50:16
In reply to Re: Bullies, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2008, at 12:27:32
Posted by Kath on July 13, 2008, at 19:55:57
In reply to Re: Bullies, posted by TexasChic on July 12, 2008, at 21:03:10
TC - I think your going in as though nothing's bothering you is a great strategy.
I DO hope you get some of that anger out out out :-)
I personally doubt that your boss wants to work anything out, however, I think it's important to try to get to a place where you care as little as possible about that.
I say keep those 'highly sensitive radar waves' tuned to doing whatever you can to keep the process fair. Is there any way that you can memorize those things that you & the other girl don't know off by heart? About what % do you think you know now? I'm just thinking that if there's any way you COULD memorize them, it'd be great, as it would be a very tangible 'improvement'. Pisses me off that you have to prove yourself, as it sounds like you work really really hard & are an asset to the organization! Oh well.
I'm sending SUCH supportive thoughts & vibes your way, you couldn't even believe it!
Much love, Kath
PS - how will the "boss-putting-things-in-writing" thing come about, do you think?
Posted by Kath on July 13, 2008, at 20:01:49
In reply to The letter I didn't send to my so called friend, posted by TexasChic on July 13, 2008, at 12:36:00
Way to GO!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW - although you don't need to post it & it would probably be filled with so many ******'s that we wouldn't be able to read it anyway - NOW - I think you need to get the really angry stuff out TC.
Not one you'd send her, but one where you say all the little-kid-foot-stamping stuff that is the RAW EMOTION of you having been betrayed, hurt, disrespected, etc, etc.
love & hugs & maybe it's just me who would need to get THAT stuff out, but you've certainly been treated in a way that warrants having BIG outraged stuff that probably would need alot of ****'s to post here!
Love YOU, Kath
Posted by Kath on July 13, 2008, at 20:03:05
In reply to The letter I didn't send to my so called friend, posted by TexasChic on July 13, 2008, at 12:36:00
Way to GO!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW - although you don't need to post it & it would probably be filled with so many ******'s that we wouldn't be able to read it anyway - NOW - I think you need to get the really angry stuff out TC.
Not one you'd send her, but one where you say all the little-kid-foot-stamping stuff that is the RAW EMOTION of you having been betrayed, hurt, disrespected, etc, etc.
love & hugs & maybe it's just me who would need to get THAT stuff out, but you've certainly been treated in a way that warrants having BIG outraged stuff that probably would need alot of ****'s to post here!
Love YOU, Kath
Posted by TexasChic on July 14, 2008, at 19:12:15
In reply to Re: The letter I didn't send to my so called friend » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 13, 2008, at 20:03:05
It was pretty non-eventful today. She's still being all nicey nice. At the end of the day she scheduled a meeting with me, her and her boss for Wed. I had requested it last week, and just today she responded and said she wanted to wait until next week because we were so busy, but I believe her boss may have initiated it as a result of the last email I sent him. So we'll see what happens!
I have a lot of things going around in my mind, so I'll have to write down what I want to say. I think I'm more worried about saying what I shouldn't say. I don't think it would be a good idea to go in there and start telling her off. It would be satisfying, but probably not smart.
I can't help but wonder if her boss has told her some of what I've said, like about the ADD thing. He swore on his CHILDREN lives (or was it their names?) that he wouldn't repeat anything I said. But I'm just not completely convinced. For one thing I find saying you swear on your children's lives (or even names) is a deplorable thing to say. He certainly didn't make me believe he was more honest because he said that. In fact, I can't believe anybody would say that and actually mean it, which means they're lying to you, which kind of defeats the purpose. But I digress... I've always wanted to say that. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything else to say!
-T
Posted by Kath on July 14, 2008, at 19:43:24
In reply to Meeting scheduled for Wed morning, posted by TexasChic on July 14, 2008, at 19:12:15
yeah - I digress is a pretty cool thing to be able to say. I must remember to say it while talking to my daughter on the phone. We are word-lovers......
That seems like a VERY strange thing for him to say, doesn't it! Weird.
Yes, I think you're right to be very aware of what you want to say, and also perhaps of what you DON'T want to say!
Keep us posted please.
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on July 15, 2008, at 9:19:11
In reply to Meeting scheduled for Wed morning, posted by TexasChic on July 14, 2008, at 19:12:15
http://www.howtohaveabullyfreeworkplace.com/?gclid=COjagtGJwpQCFQJtFQodwhFjFg
Just saw this as an onscreen 'ad'.
Putting it here in case it's of help or interest.
xoxo Kath
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
In reply to Meeting scheduled for Wed morning, posted by TexasChic on July 14, 2008, at 19:12:15
And hoping it went well.
Posted by Kath on July 16, 2008, at 14:30:22
In reply to I'm thinking of you » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 21:42:05
In reply to I'm thinking of you » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
They just blew off everything I said. My bosses boss completely flipped sides from the last time I talked to him. He said I was just not doing as well as the others in my position, even one who had been there a shorter time than me. I started to say something because the others in my position have both been there over 10 years, but he interrupted me and said he wasn't going to get into that. I also tried to point out that my boss had never brought up any of this stuff I'm supposedly sucking at until about 2-3 months ago (the HR lady even made a point of saying that when I met with her), but my boss said she HAD written stuff like that on my review and she could show it to me. At that point I didn't even want to continue. I knew she would just twist something to fit what she wanted. And believe me, I was sick to death of both of them by that time.
Its ridiculous because everybody who works with me and actually knows something about what I do (which believe me, my boss doesn't) thinks I do a better than average job. I'm the one who everybody comes to with questions for crying out loud!
As for the ADD stuff, they said if it interfered with my job then I needed to find another one. I didn't even get to the part about her putting things in writing. At the end I was just like, okay, then I have nothing else to say. Then I got to work until 9PM tonight. Nice, huh? I cried the whole last 3 hours (nobody else was there - my boss was in the building but elsewhere).
I have a doctor's appointment first thing in the morning, maybe she'll say I'm unfit for work. Then later I have an appointment with HR (that I made). I don't expect anything to come of it, but I figured I could at least tell her what happened at the meeting, and maybe find out what's going on with the investigation. I also called the employee assistance line that is a benefit from my insurance, which provides three free visits with a T. I could choose pretty much whoever took my insurance. So I have an appointment on Saturday.
I'd still like to go to my bosses bosses boss. He's really nice and seems to like me. But I just don't think I can go through it again. I am really bottoming out here. I'm not in the mind to do myself hard, but I'm feeling really bad.
I didn't talk to my coworker who works with me under my boss and she didn't talk to me. I think she just knew to leave me alone. Eventually we'll have to talk since we work together, but I just don't know what I'll end up saying.
Time to start the heavy duty job hunt I guess. Did I mention that I've applied to over 50 jobs online in the last month and a half? Maybe something will come through for me.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:04:03
In reply to Thanks, it went terribly, posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 21:42:05
I thought my title came out like, gee thanks, which I didn't mean for it to.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:13:27
In reply to I'm thinking of you » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
I think its time to go smoke one of my stale *ss cigarettes. I save them for stressful times and believe it or not the pack is really old. But I think tonight qualifies.
I'm never going to be able sleep tonight!
-T
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 22:20:26
In reply to Re: I'm thinking of you, posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:13:27
I'm so sorry. :(
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:37:14
In reply to ((((((((((TC))))))))))))), posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 22:20:26
Thank you Dinah. I'm just so sick of it all. Just everything.
-T
Posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 14:36:12
In reply to Thanks, it went terribly, posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 21:42:05
Oh hunnee,
I am so very sorry. WHAT an ordeal. I would have thought there'd be an HR person at the meeting. Maybe there was & I misunderstood.
I wish you could go to the next level boss up.
Oh TC.
(((((((((((((((((((((you))))))))))))))))))))))
much much love, Kath
PS - let me know if there's anything I can do. I'll "hold light" for you for sure.
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 19:51:40
In reply to Re: Thanks, it went terribly » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 14:36:12
T me too so sorry it went poorly any responses from the online job search? Love Phillipa
Posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:11:11
In reply to Re: Thanks, it went terribly » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 14:36:12
Thanks yall. Actually its when she writes me up that there will be an HR person present. This was a meeting I asked for. Even though I feel she is the problem, I thought some things may have been exasperated by the ADD stuff. So I thought by sharing it and asking for her help, it might be a situation in which she could still feel superior, by helping poor little me. Obviously THAT didn't happen, but I still think it was a good plan.
Today was weird, she was really mean & I cried the whole first half, but after I had a meeting with HR that I had requested, I realized what was worrying me the most was the thought that I might do something wrong and get fired on the spot. But it turns out it doesn't quite work that way. It all has to go through HR. So after that, I felt way less vunerable, and even though she totally bitched me out for something, I was like, okay, okay, I'll never do it again, okay. THEN weirdly enough, she started being nice again! I was like, whatever, psycho bitch.
I still don't know how long I can hang in there. Although I feel fine now, this morning I had to fight the urge to walk out. It was a terrible, hopeless, all encompassing panicky feeling. I felt I just might go running down the halls screaming or something.
Oh, the thing I got in trouble for I had written an email to the next level boss but hadn't sent it because I wanted to take a few days to think about it, but while I was reading it over she came up behind me! I don't know if she say who it was to or if she just thought I was reading personal email, but she said she, "Highly suggests I not do something like that again". So I went ahead and sent it. I really don't know what I've got to lose at this point. I mean, I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm following the chain of command. And I really just told him about the problems I was having and asked if he would give me some advice. So we'll see what happens. The drama continues... God, what stupid boring storyline this would be!
-T
Posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 20:33:02
In reply to So, so today, posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:11:11
Hang in there hun & maybe try to read up on how to best deal with bullies.
I think that link I posted above had some free advice apart from buying the book.
I think the more matter-of-fact & less upset you are with her the better probably.
love, Kath
PS - keep us up to date hun. We care. xoxo K
Posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:34:01
In reply to So, so today, posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:11:11
Posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 22:28:57
In reply to Re: So, so today » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 20:33:02
> Hang in there hun & maybe try to read up on how to best deal with bullies.
> I think that link I posted above had some free advice apart from buying the book.I read that link and it described me to a T!!! I actually copied part of it and emailed it to a friend because it stated how I felt so well.
> I think the more matter-of-fact & less upset you are with her the better probably.
I know that's the right way to handle it, I'm just worried about my emotions getting away from me. Everybody tells me the way I hold things in is really bad. I just get so upset sometimes I can't find any words. Also, I think it dates back to my childhood there was a lot of out of control yelling and fighting going on. I guess deep down I'm afraid of turning into that. Oh well, more things to discuss with the T I guess!
> PS - keep us up to date hun. We care. xoxo KThank you, that means a lot to me.
Posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 17:09:50
In reply to Re: So, so today, posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 22:28:57
Yep, got the write up today. Of course, they call it an "opportunity", which is pretty hard not to laugh in their faces about. I completely kept my cool and DID NOT CRY!!! It was hard to sit through though, because it was all just so ridiculous. One of the things she wrote as an example of my misusing my time was how yesterday she came up and saw that email I had written to the big boss. She said I took 45min to an hour writing a personal email on work time. I think I may have actually laughed then. I said, "First of all, the email was to --- --- (big bosses name), and second of all, I had written it at home and forwarded it to myself. I was waiting for my computer to finish processing something, so I pulled it up and was reading it over when she came up behind my back and saw it". Her boss made a gesture that seemed to mean, oh, well that's okay then. I didn't point out then that she had obviously completely fabricated how I was writing it for 45min to an hour. I probably should have, but I was just trying to get through the damn thing.
I went on then to ask for time limits for when she requested I pull up a picture (something she had said I was inefficient at). They all kind of just looked at me. I said, if I'm going to be judged on my efficiency, then I need an actual time limit. The HR lady said,"Nobody is going to be standing over you with a stop watch, this is a matter of how well you know your job." I said, "Yes, and if I'm to judged on something so vague as 'efficiently', then I need a time limit in order to defend myself". Finally my bosses boss said, "Okay, what do you want, 5 minutes?" We both looked at my boss, and I think maybe for once in my life I had stumped her - she just shrugged. So as I was writing it down I said, "Okay, then! 5 minutes for locating photos". This is a ridiculously large amount of time for this task, so it was hard to keep a smirk off my face.
Next I addressed the other thing she said I didn't know, which were our editorial rules, which are a 2 page list of rules we are all supposed to go by. I said. "Okay, she says I don't know my editorial rules, but some things she says are in the rules, aren't". She said in a short clipped voice, "Like what! Give an example!" I said, I cant think of an example, I just know that many, many times when she says I have missed a rule, I go back and look but am unable to find it on the sheet. So she grudgingly said she would write up some common rules. I should have pushed to get something more specific, but by then I was loosing steam (keep in mind I had to first listen to my boss read two pages of idiocy talking about how horrible I was at my job before I could respond).
The last thing they said was me and my boss have to meet each week to discuss how Im doing. FINALLY, I got to leave. A few minutes later my boss came up and puts her hand on my back and says in a syrupy voice, Are you okay? I replied in a sarcastic voice, Um, yeah. Then she said, Do you need to go home? in the same voice. I said, somehow even more sarcastically, Um, NO. Then she said something like shes doing this to help me, and I said, Whatever you say. Finally she left me alone. I was livid.
I then wrote an email to the HR mediator telling her how I REALLY felt and giving the example of how my boss had lied about my spending an hour writing an email when she wasnt even there during that time (she had just come back from a meeting when she walked up behind me). I told her I would continue to do my job to the best of my ability, just as I always have, and I would always remain the professional, just as I always have. But, I said, I dont believe she has any intention of working with me, and think instead she is just going through the motions to get rid of me. I said shes a bully and a liar. But I would have no problem proving myself competent at my job, so thats what I will do.
Then I finished my work and came home, and I found myself thinking, why on earth did I stay there all this time??? I think it was pure stubbornness! I dont I just dont like to quit.
The bad thing is now I just cant imagine going back in everyday and having her act all fake nice while I try to keep a neutral face. But tomorrow I will talk to the T, and I think I will first address my anger issues about all of this (I noticed one of her specialties was anger management). Normally this isnt a problem for me, but I think as I slowly become more assertive, my anger is being uncovered as well.
Well, this is an insanely long post, so Im going to stop now. Ill end this by saying for the first time, I actually feel some excitement about a new job!
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 21:15:18
In reply to 90 Days to get another job, posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 17:09:50
After I made my post here, I checked my email. I had gotten a response to a job I applied for in the Art division of an extremely prestigous University. They asked three questions: how soon can you start, what attracted you to this job, and if $$ (an amount of money that is substantially more than what I'm making) would be adequate! I mean, how weird is that to get this on the day I got written up. I've always wanted to work for an University, and to top it off its an Art School??? And to top THAT off its way more money??? I was like, Universe, are you KIDDING me??? Because, come on now! I don't think I could take it if you were!
Of course, I realize its highly unlikely that I will get it, not that I'm going to be all no confidence girl or anything, but for that much money, there's got to be something more to it. I've got to stay at least somewhat realistic here. But I'm going try my absolute best, and I'm going to take the weekend to come up with an exceptional response!
Thank you Universe!!!
-T
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