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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 4, 2008, at 18:31:08
During my session this week, she asked me if I noticed that I sounded like a child talking for just a few comments. I didn't notice anything. I think she asked me how I felt when some certain relatives didn't believe me about my abuse. I said something like they are stupid. I don't care what they think.
Okay so I was using simpler words than usual, but what was she trying to get at? Do you think she thinks I am dissociating or something? I will ask her, but wondering what you all thought.
Kinda feels like she is reading too much into the way I said something. Now I feel kinda self conscience.
Posted by Racer on December 4, 2008, at 18:56:57
In reply to I am puzzled, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 4, 2008, at 18:31:08
Could she have been suggesting that the topic is one which triggers a regression to an earlier stage of development? My therapist likes to talk about moving through developmental stages -- "that's your adolescent self -- what would your adult self have to say." What you've just reported sounded similar to me.
Posted by no_rose_garden on December 4, 2008, at 23:48:15
In reply to Re: I am puzzled, posted by Racer on December 4, 2008, at 18:56:57
I talked to my counselor like I was a little girl...and now I think my T too. My counselor even called me "little girl" once...it was nice.
I think for me it's that I want them to be my father and I don't want to be an adult and I want them to take care of me.
Posted by muffled on December 4, 2008, at 23:51:07
In reply to I am puzzled, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 4, 2008, at 18:31:08
> During my session this week, she asked me if I noticed that I sounded like a child talking for just a few comments. I didn't notice anything. I think she asked me how I felt when some certain relatives didn't believe me about my abuse. I said something like they are stupid. I don't care what they think.
> Okay so I was using simpler words than usual, but what was she trying to get at? Do you think she thinks I am dissociating or something? I will ask her, but wondering what you all thought.
> Kinda feels like she is reading too much into the way I said something. Now I feel kinda self conscience.*We all dissociate. We all have ego states. Some are just more separated than others. Its a logical and clever coping mechanism. You were remembering session, and what she said, so you might have been regressed perhaps. Don't worry bout it and try and just relax. What will be will be. Your the same person you have always been.
Maybe your inner kid just needs to be heard. Mebbe she hurting and just wants to be beleived. Proly a smart kid.
Mebbe I all wet.
Often am.
I just wish you well and don't want you to worry or nothing, cuz you got enuf on your plate.
I sure glad you ghot a T you can work with, and that she is female and thats OK :-)
Your an amazing woman.
M
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 0:20:15
In reply to Re: I am puzzled, posted by muffled on December 4, 2008, at 23:51:07
Muffled to me you're amazing and so logical and grounded. Love Phillipa
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 5, 2008, at 4:52:03
In reply to Re: I am puzzled, posted by Racer on December 4, 2008, at 18:56:57
That makes sense Racer, I just have never had a T who really talked about that kind of stuff. She is always asking me if I am being present when we are talking about difficult memories. I always am, and sometimes it just feels like she is looking for things that aren't there.
She says most trauma victims she works with usually doesn't feel "there" in the room when talking about the hard memories. I may not "feel anything emotionally", but I do feel present and in the room.
All I know is that she pays a lot of attention to me, my reactions, and stuff. She asks a lot questions about how I am feeling. All of this I don't mind, I feel like she is doing a great job with me. Maybe she is seeing things in me that I have never noticed before or maybe she is looking too hard too? I don't know.
Posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2008, at 7:08:40
In reply to I am puzzled, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 4, 2008, at 18:31:08
Sometimes even the best therapists are wrong. Sometimes, as you suggest, they make a mountain out of a mole hill.
It sounds like your T is very in tune with you and may see/hear things that you are not aware of.
I very happy that you have a T that is willing to listen to you, both your words and how you say them.
Sometimes there is a lot of truth in the things we don't explicitly say.
All in all, however, you rock.
Just thought that needed to be said.
Seldom.
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2008, at 11:50:18
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » Racer, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 5, 2008, at 4:52:03
Maybe T just can't beleive you didn't fragment somehow as your abuse was horrific.
And actually, when you don't feel the feelings, that in itself is a form of dissociating.
No, not DID, but dissociating.
Best wishes.
M
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 6, 2008, at 13:45:23
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2008, at 7:08:40
Thanks Seldom,
She is very tuned into me, and she is still trying to put the story together she said, so I am just going to let it go. She asked me if I noticed, and I said no.
For myself, I don't believe in different ego states, I just don't believe in that theory. I have always felt like me, no matter my age, I have always felt the same. I don't have an inner child and all that sh*t, even though so many believe that. I just don't define myself as that. To me all ages and people need the same basic emotional needs, age really doesn't separate it to me.I do believe there are things we say even when the words don't come out, and she is watching very closely. I guess it is better to have someone watching too close than not enough. But I really like she remembers VERY well session to session. Plus she does the directing of the session which is fine with me.
I am not sure why you think I "rock" but it was sweet for you to say, I will accept you comment. lol
Posted by muffled on December 6, 2008, at 20:27:33
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » seldomseen, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 6, 2008, at 13:45:23
"For myself, I don't believe in different ego states, I just don't believe in that theory. I have always felt like me, no matter my age, I have always felt the same. I don't have an inner child and all that sh*t, even though so many believe that. I just don't define myself as that. To me all ages and people need the same basic emotional needs, age really doesn't separate it to me."
I glad you defined, that, 'for myself'.
You do not beleive in that theory.....
I wish so bad I could explain it to you :(
Its a REAL problem for some dissociative people that some T's do not beleive in ego states :(
I just want to say, for me, they exist. They are very real to me most of the time.
LOL, but not ALL of the time.! There are times I am absolutely convinced there are no other parts.
But for the most part, dissociattion is about hiding, blending in, staying safe, escaping. So its not surprizing its not that noticable for the most part.
We hide it very very well.
I too think we all have the same basic emotional needs. But where therapy is diff for dissociatives, is that we need to relate to the more split off parts, on THEIR level. And that MAY be that of a child. Finally truly (mostly) understanding that was extreemly helpful to me. Bizarre though it still seems to me.
I don't mean to lecture you.
Its just I know your were T training, and I wanted you to have the whole story.
It IS real, very very real.
I am glad you don't have parts. Its amazing you didn't split off. Maybe that is a sign of your strength.
I dunno.
Anyhow, I guess you don't wanto talk to me, and thats OK, I don't babble much anymore.
I will respect that.
Just know I do have a great deal of respect for you and your journey.
Best wishes,
M
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 6, 2008, at 22:05:16
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by muffled on December 6, 2008, at 20:27:33
Muffled,
I do believe in DID, I have friends who have it and I do understand DID.
But what I do believe that all ages in your life you need certain things emotionally, and age doesn't separate different needs. We all need love, security, and for someone to help take care of ourselves, for example, but that doesn't have to be only "child" needs. When I speak of ego states, I am not talking about DID. There are many ego state theories and they are not all related to DID. They are two different things, maybe they get confused with each other.I just don't see the "little me" and the "adult me" as 2 separate things. I believe our needs are universal from person to person, from age to age and are contained within the same body for the entire lifetime. In other words what you needed emotionally as a child isn't all that different from what you need as an adult.
To me DID, can relate to many separations of time during a lifetime but the needs you need as a child are usually very similar to the needs of an adult. So if as an adult, you feel the need to be held, it doesn't mean it is a child ego state. It is just a need we all have our entire lifetime. Hopefully you are also held by someone as an adult. So wanting to be held isn't just a child's need it is a person's need no matter what age.Don't know if that helps what I am thinking relating to my therapy. When I talk using simpler words, it isn't me regressing, it is just simpler words, because adults use simpler words too.
So I don't believe in "little girl needs" because they are not all that different than my woman needs.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 6, 2008, at 22:25:14
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » muffled, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 6, 2008, at 22:05:16
don't talk down to my kids because they are kids. I support their emotional needs, but I believe those needs are not "young needs" so I treat them with mutual respect, not as an older person talking to a younger one. I didn't use baby language either, to talk to them, even when they were very young. Yes, I hugged them when they were upset and talked to them gently, but I would do that with anyone no matter what age.
So when says that they need someone to relate to them at a certain ego state age, it can mean something different to each of us. Plus I think there is an "expectant" way for one to talk to a child, that is truly a myth. Not all parents do this, and they are still very good parents. So I wonder how much a DID client expects from a T, has a lot to do with their beliefs of how a parent should be, it could be misguided.
We have all grown up with different culture standards of parenting, and one isn't better than another one. So there are no certain ways to parent, and the way a T talks to a client in a DID regression, can differ so much from client to client, from T to T. There is no standard. So if a T doesn't understand your needs, it may not be just be because you are DID.
Posted by seldomseen on December 7, 2008, at 8:34:50
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » seldomseen, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 6, 2008, at 13:45:23
I'm not sure the ego state theory is for me either. However, for others I've seen that model and application of that model be very helpful with their therapy.
I would definately let your therapist know about your beliefs.
I've been amazed at some of the things my therapist remembers as well - like the names of college professors that I may have mentioned once or twice in passing.
It's funny the things that they register as important.
Seldom.
ps. I'm in San Francisco and I LOVE this town. I'm not homesick a bit!
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 9:11:34
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by seldomseen on December 7, 2008, at 8:34:50
Hi Seldom!
I have always wanted to go to San Fran, I hear it is so wonderful. I have been to San Diego and saw the most beautiful sunset of my life. Plus it is better than being in a foot of snow right now. lol Better soak up some of that sunshine to save it for the winter.
I should tell my T I don't believe in that theory of therapy, in case she starts with it. Mainly this thread was about MY therapy, I didn't mean to offend anyone else who believes in that theory for themselves, but then again I was talking about my therapy. Different things work for different people and I can only speak for myself and what I believe. When I speak of ego state therapy, it has NOTHING to do with DID. One is a type of therapy and one is a mental condition.
Ego state therapy stated with a form of hypnosis therapy, and psychoanalyst training, my old man T practiced it at one time. He no longer practices this because he believes other therapies are more useful to him and his practice.
For me, I am more into the humanistic model of therapy (Carl Rogers). I believe we all have in us our own answers of how to heal, we just need to be guided time to time to come to our realizations. When given unconditional positive regard with our T's, we feel safe enough to go through the process. I believe in other theories too of course, but this is the main one I believe in.
I just looked up my T on Psychology Today, and she listed that her theory is the Roger's method, among others. But when I start to practice, and a client(thank Carl Rogers for that term instead of patient)needs the age regression therapy, I will be trained to do it.
Enjoy that sunshine!
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 10:00:44
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » seldomseen, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 9:11:34
Perhaps the problem is different understanding of the same term? You're thinking of ego state therapy, which is a well defined mode of therapy.
While others may be thinking of their own experiences, where they use the same terminology, but mean something entirely different. I *know* I've read about ego states as a fragmentation less extensive than alters. I'm working from memory here, but that's vaguely what I recall.
Which would be something very different.
Speaking for myself only, I tend to be very sensitive to the whole dissociation issue. There is so much negativity out there, although frankly some of the proponents distress me as much as the naysayers. I really honor my therapist for respecting my experiences as my experiences, and not trying to dismiss them, but also not trying to squeeze them to fit something they really don't fit.
So perhaps your concern with your therapist on the topic isn't so different from Muffled's? The issue being that a therapist is not being respectful of your experience as you understand it, and you maybe feel she is trying to apply a theory that does not fit you?
I think it's fair to tell her that. Although I do believe in ego states (while I have no particular opinion on ego state therapy), I do think that sometimes therapy can create phenomenon that do not benefit the client. If you consider it, and find it does not fit, it's worthwhile discussing it with her. Perhaps when you talk about it without labels being applied, you'll find out what her thinking is and gain some insights, without every having to be forced into a box.
Do you think that there might be any underlying truths to what she says, even if you don't care for the conceptualization? You can think of things in many ways. For example, if she notices swift changes in your attitudes, and is thinking in terms of ego states, you might point out that what she's observing may be accurate, but that her conceptualization doesn't match yours. You might think of it as coping mechanisms kicking in, or that you express certain emotions in certain ways.
I say my therapist is respectful of my experiences, and that is true. But when I first tried to tell him about how I experienced myself, I had to talk in huge circles because I sensed his reluctance and disapproval. I eventually had to point out that his attitude was keeping me from being totally honest with him, he shared his concerns, and things really turned around. I think it's really important to have those conversations. I thought my therapist was inhibiting my ability to be open with him. Perhaps you think your therapist is pushing you to fit certain molds, which would also inhibit your ability to be open with her. It's early days yet, and you're getting to know each other and how each of you think.
From what you say about her, she seems very open to theories and experiences. Which is great! She can be open to *your* experiences, and to using a vocabulary and set of conceptualizations that suit your own experience.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 12:27:10
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 10:00:44
I know this is getting way off topic of my intended post, but who cares, it doesn't bother me. I think a lot of theories have steps or separations, like Freud's id, ego and super ego. There are so many theories of personality development and modes of therapy.
When I mentioned that my T said that she noticed I used more child like words, when I answered a question, I truly believe that was her perception. I don't always sound intellectual, especially when I am not feeling well ( I had a migraine that session that I treated with my meds, but they weren't working very well) or when I am tired.
She respects my option very much because that is why she asked me if I noticed I used more child like words. I didn't notice and asked her what she meant.
She says we do therapy together as a team, that she is not the authority over me, that we work together to figure things out. So I have no problems asking her about this. I know she is the T and will notice things about me, so I think it is cool she is actually putting me in the focus. She is still trying to put together the puzzle she says, she says everyone has a different puzzle. That my path may be different in what I need to recover that may not be with the norms of usual child abuse since I am unusual as an adult survivor. Sp I know she is looking for dissociating in me, she is always asking me if I am present in the room. I am and I find the question kinda annoying, but I know it is appropriate.
I did dissociate at the time of abuse, in it's truest form, that is in the actual time of actual harm. But I don't dissociate when talking about what happened to me or any other time in my life, even as a child. It was just during the actual abuse. But that is just me. Many of my T's say I am unusual for survivors, I am in the minority.
I didn't go on to abuse my children, I didn't turn to drugs, I didn't get admitted to a mental hospital for mental problems, and many usual ways abuse effects others. But it did harm me in other ways. Ways that me and my T are just beginning to discover. One of my T's said my intelligence probably saved me, it keep me sage from more abuse. I hide away, I got away from home.
My brother was not so lucky, his abuse he suffered caused brain damage. He was very smart though, but the damage effected other area's of development. I do have arthritis of the neck, caused from being banged around, I have a cracked tailbone that healed wrong, that caused a huge amount of pain during childbirth of my 2 kids. I hoard food because I grew up being hungry and it wasn't because my family was poor, we were middle class.I have scars all over my body and other stuff too. But I didn't split off, most victims do not become DID. I do have PTSD, but then again not all abuse victims have that either. So we are all different and my T says you can't apply generalities to child abuse victims. So maybe I should be more messed up, it amazed all my T's that I am actually pretty normal functioning in life. I do carry some of the signs though.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:41:19
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by muffled on December 6, 2008, at 20:27:33
>
> I don't mean to lecture you.
> Its just I know your were T training, and I wanted you to have the whole story.I am being very well trained, and I know more than you realize, but a total picture of a lot of theories not just one.
> It IS real, very very real.
> I am glad you don't have parts. Its amazing you didn't split off. Maybe that is a sign of your strength.I know you feel this way, you have brought it to my attention many times over the past years. But I don't split off, and it is getting difficult to hear this when I write about my therapy.
> I dunno.
> Anyhow, I guess you don't wanto talk to me, and thats OK, I don't babble much anymore.I never implied this. I don't know if you remember but it was usually me that asked about how you were doing on the boards because you have been gone a lot.
> I will respect that.
> Just know I do have a great deal of respect for you and your journey.
> Best wishes,
> M
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:50:11
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » muffled, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:41:19
> >
> > I don't mean to lecture you.
> > Its just I know your were T training, and I wanted you to have the whole story.
I just want to say that I am going to school to be a forensic psychologist, but when I am posting on the boards, it is just as a client, like everyone else, unless I say so otherwise.
Posted by Racer on December 7, 2008, at 20:19:01
In reply to Re: I am puzzled » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by seldomseen on December 7, 2008, at 8:34:50
>
> ps. I'm in San Francisco and I LOVE this town. I'm not homesick a bit!
>
>{ahem}
And shall I remind you of something?
Better go finish clearing my throat...
:-)
This is the end of the thread.
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