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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 18:49:04
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » pseudoname, posted by Poet on October 10, 2006, at 18:21:00
Truly, after all this, you want to live forever? What's so bad about dying? It's the only way out and you don't want to stay here forever (do you?). There's this brief flash of light in a dead universe (us!).....and look at what we make of it; there's something to be depressed about.
Posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 18:52:39
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 18:49:04
Maybe suffering (in the sense of 'allowing') is good for the soul.
Posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 19:10:39
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 18:52:39
That Servan-Schreiber book ("Instinct to Heal") says that it's the limbic system that gives us our will to live, a little putt-putt motor that keeps us going… & going… & going… I supposed it empowers those fault-excusing biases.
Antonio Damsio's "Descartes' Error" apparently says the limbic empowers our cognitions, too, but I haven't been able to get through it. (I can't believe it was a best seller; did all the buyers really read it? It seemed like tough going to me.)
When the frontal, cognitive brain becomes unhooked, sorta, from those limbic drives, then you've got problems, I guess. Servan-Schreiber suggests all these various ways to connect them back together.
The Deep Brain Stimulation also supposedly silences overactive areas that interfere with that, I guess. I wish DBS and not Vagal Nerve Surgery were available now.
I can't pretend that this has much to do with self-esteem anymore, except that I've got very little. Sorry.
Posted by Jost on October 10, 2006, at 21:17:12
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 16:30:15
hey, guys! you're depressing me. yikes. this is the self-esteem board, not the "life sucks and then you die" board.
brrrrr. (head in hands)
Jost
Posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:31:20
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 19:10:39
That's a perfectly good excuse, pseudoname (the no self esteem thing).
Talking about myself again, I divided the world up into 2 of everything, so Descartes is bad (unkind to cows) and Pascal is good ('too much light darkens the mind').
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2006, at 21:35:27
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » pseudoname, posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:31:20
I for one am kicking and screaming trying to beat depression anxiety and all from low self-esteem . It ties in cause I'm getting older don't look sexy etc, and I don't want to die. I want to live and love life like I used to. And this has a lot to do with my self-esteem and how others view me. Love Phillipa ps yes I know it's supposed to be inside what if it's not?
Posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:38:19
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » pseudoname, posted by Jost on October 10, 2006, at 21:17:12
I was just amazed by (for want of a better expression) the strength of character of the classical pianist bloke, and it made me think that it's important that you live a life that you can respect.
Life sucks and then you die? Maybe. But isn't that the first noble truth, the truth of suffering, and the fact of impermanence? Anyway, I don't like those suburban representations of eternal life. I'd feel trapped.
Posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:42:59
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2006, at 21:35:27
PJ, it says something about this society we live in, where only what can be bought and sold is seen as having value. Most previous societies valued the old as having wisdom. In this society the old are right to be fearful. What do they have to look forward to? Party hats at Christmas and outdoor excursions to the hairdresser.
love
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2006, at 22:03:47
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:42:59
Declan that's depressing. No traveling to Australia to visit you!!!!Love PJ
Posted by Declan on October 11, 2006, at 7:19:01
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Declan, posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2006, at 22:03:47
That's what it was for my mother.
Posted by Jost on October 11, 2006, at 17:22:05
In reply to How can we cheer up » Jost, posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:38:19
Perhaps.
but I don't live in the suburbs.
Jost
Posted by Declan on October 11, 2006, at 18:49:32
In reply to Re: How can we cheer up, posted by Jost on October 11, 2006, at 17:22:05
I don't imagine you as a country boy. Perhaps you're from the big city?
Posted by Phillipa on October 11, 2006, at 19:47:38
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 11, 2006, at 7:19:01
What happened to your Mother? Was she ill? Love Phillipa
Posted by pseudoname on October 11, 2006, at 21:42:35
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » pseudoname, posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 21:31:20
> That's a perfectly good excuse, pseudoname
Thanks, Dek. As I think I've mentioned to you before, that's really all I want out of life.
I guess I shouldn't talk about self-esteem here because my problems with it are not any kind of natural deficit. I am moderately confident of my abilities, such as they are.
What looks like my poor self-esteem is, I think, just fiendish, crazy, intrusive, obsessive self-criticism that somehow carries with it the glory of Real Truth. Take that away and I'd be as healthfully biased as the next 41-year-old under-employed twerp.
All I need is an excuse that's good enough to drown out the insane criticism in my head. (It would have to be believable to other people, too.)
Posted by pseudoname on October 11, 2006, at 21:58:47
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » pseudoname, posted by Declan on October 10, 2006, at 15:46:20
I don't find stories like that pianist with the brain tumor encouraging. The problem is exactly what you say: "in the end he was more or less resigned to handling his lot as well as he could"
I have not handled my lot as well as I could. I *do* not handle it as well as I can. I handle it badly; I do nothing. People do not admire me or write it up in the paper how bravely I bear my troubles. They see me as pathetic, merely. What's left in that life is not satisfying to me as a human being.
The pianist still had something in his life that could give him pleasure; there's a huge gulf between my cancer-free head and his.
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 3:44:58
In reply to that pianist bloke » Declan, posted by pseudoname on October 11, 2006, at 21:58:47
Yes, but you have to handle your head. If at the end you feel that, in your view, you handled a difficult situation as well as you could, you may derive from that a measure of self respect. I haven't handled my life well either, but there was a 'weight of inherited sorrow' that I had. Everyone who came near it was damaged, it wasn't just me. Einstellung, maybe, is a word meaning making a concious choice to see things from your own point of view. I think we can do that.
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 3:49:41
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Declan, posted by Phillipa on October 11, 2006, at 19:47:38
She died 5 years ago. She developed agitated depression. When that was kinda over she just wanted to go into an 'aged care facility', as we say these days. Then she got cancer and died a couple of years later. She bore the party hats and excursions to the hairdresser with grace. Cancer was a piece of cake compared to the depression.
Posted by Dinah on October 12, 2006, at 8:37:19
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 3:49:41
I'm sorry Declan. :( I had somehow gotten the impression that your mother was still alive.
I hope I never am so gracious as to bear party hats and trips to the hairdresser.
But I honor your mother for her greater forbearance.
Posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 18:59:57
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 3:49:41
Ahhh Declan I'm sorry. Couldn't they treat the depression? It must have been awful to suffer with depression and then cancer. So sorry. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 19:11:19
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Declan, posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 18:59:57
She had ECT then Effexor. All up she spent 9 months in a psych hospital, then it was off to the aged care facility.
Things had simplified for her by then and she was really just waiting to die.I tell you one thing I like about myself.......I can comfort people, and I was able to comfort her. I don't suppose I'm so easy to comfort myself.
Posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 20:04:48
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 19:11:19
Come on over you can comfort me. And I'll comfort you too. I truly am sorry about your Mom. If it's not rude how old was she when she got depressed and was the ECT any better then. If she was on effexor it can't be that long ago. Love Jan
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 23:58:06
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Declan, posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 20:04:48
74 when she cracked up and 78 when she died. I thought ECT was appalling, but it's difficult to be sure. Effexor worked, I think, and the passage of time. She spent the last 7 months of her life on low doses of morphine which helped a lot.
Posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 19:51:21
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?) » Declan, posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 20:04:48
Declan you mean she was emotionally fine til age 74? Was there a contributing factor? Sounds strange to be fine til that age. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 26, 2006, at 12:32:45
In reply to “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 14:06:19
Hey!
Yeah, I've often noted my unamazing ability to see things how they really are. I was just thinking this to myself the other day -- my flatmate has truely great self esteem (I actually instinctively dislike anyone with high self esteem) and I was trying to imagine the fibs she must tell herself to bend the truth round to her reality, ie she's the greatest living thing on this planet. There must be some serious mental distortions going on there!
Perhaps people with high self esteem 'discount the negative' whereas low self esteemers 'discount the positive' or whatever it is that CBT uses. It would be really interesting to hear the mental dialogue that high self esteemers have about themselves....
Like imagine two people with the same event happen to them, how the one reacts with high self esteem and the one with low self esteem.
Aren't depressives supposed to be 'realists'? I read that somewhere. I would like to think that its fairly accurate.My mother always talks about buddist stuff about accepting your fate and trusting in the world to look after you and such things. There's some truth in that.
Anyway for some reason I'm dead keen to have kids. I see them as my link to the future or to give me a reason to live or something. Anyone care to comment about this who's had kids? I suppose then they just grown up and reject everything you try to instill in them. Oh well.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 19:53:59
In reply to Re: “Everyone should be depressed” (?), posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 26, 2006, at 12:32:45
Merri I think it depends. As small children is was lovely. Now as teen one good, one abused drugs, one I sent to private school to avoid the drugs. As adults I see that I have produced very intelligent motivated and great career wise children. But here maybe not there they tend to move away when they get good jobs as my kids have. All have at least four year college degrees. One is a VP of the Bank for trusts(can't say the name) in Stuart Florida, and has a Masters in Minestry for the future but no kids and a husband doing well also, one has two grown kids , and my youngest hasn't had kids and doesn't think she will as she feels the things happening in the world don't lend itself to fostering healthy kids. And that is their decision. I barely see them as they have their own lives. They are only ours til they leap forward and live their own lives. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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