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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mila s on October 7, 2006, at 21:12:57
I took 800mg of SAM-e twice a day along with B vitamins and 1000mg TMG for several months, and it really helped. Since SAM-e is so expensive (especially at my high dose of 1600mg/day), I would like to try taking TMG instead to increase my SAM-e levels as has been often suggested on this site.
However, I have no idea how much to take for this purpose and whether I should be taking anything else. If anyone has advice or can direct me to information about this I would be much obliged. Thanks.
Posted by nolvas on October 8, 2006, at 5:10:12
In reply to How to substitute TMG for SAM-e?, posted by mila s on October 7, 2006, at 21:12:57
"The main disadvantage of SAMe supplementation is its very high cost. It is possible to stimulate the body’s endogenous production of SAMe by using supplemental Betaine (Trimethylglycine) + Folic Acid + Vitamin B12.
Trimethylglycine (TMG) is 100% Betaine and is purported to be the optimum form of Betaine for all uses other than correcting Hydrochloric Acid deficiency.""Anti-depression: By raising level of beneficial SAM (S-Adenosyl-Methionine).
Dose range: 500-1,500 mg daily"
http://www.raysahelian.com/trimethylglycine.html"Q. You have mentioned in your book, Mind Boosters that DMG and Trimethylglycine are possibly capable of providing much of the same anti-depressant actions as SAM-e, for less cost. I read somewhere that the action of a dose of SAM-e may be enhanced by taking some MSM at the same time. My guess is that would be due to an increase in methylation. Do you think that taking some MSM along with DMG or Trimethylglycine would likewise increase the effects of the DMG or Trimethylglycine? Do you agree with the concept of adding the MSM to the SAM-e?
A. You ask a good question. I have tried finding scientific studies on MSM but the published information on this nutrient is extremely limited. I don't know too much about MSM's cognitive effects, although it is known that it can easily cross the blood-brain barrier. My brief personal experience with this nutrient for a few days did not indicate that it had much effect on mood--unlike DMG, Trimethylglycine, and SAM-e--but I need to emphasize that my experience was very limited. If you do try the combination of MSM with other methyl donors, please let me know if you find a synergistic effect. In the meantime, if I come across any other information, I will make sure to post it."
Posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 10:53:48
In reply to How to substitute TMG for SAM-e?, posted by mila s on October 7, 2006, at 21:12:57
> I took 800mg of SAM-e twice a day along with B vitamins and 1000mg TMG for several months, and it really helped. Since SAM-e is so expensive (especially at my high dose of 1600mg/day), I would like to try taking TMG instead to increase my SAM-e levels as has been often suggested on this site.
>
> However, I have no idea how much to take for this purpose and whether I should be taking anything else. If anyone has advice or can direct me to information about this I would be much obliged. Thanks.There was a previous long thread on this you may find interesting, particularly because Larry Hoover participated (and provided multiple chemistry links). http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031104/msgs/278142.html
This was from Dr. Walsh from the Pfeiffer Clinic as posted on Alternative Mental Health:
"A quick way to test for need for methylation therapy is to carry out a cautious trial of SAMe. Within a week or two you should have your answer. If she clearly is improving on the SAMs (which is frightfully expensive)..... you can get usually the same benefits (albeit more slowly) using methionine plus calcium, magnesium, and B-6..."
I'd forgotten taht methionine was part of Dr. Walsh's "poor man's SAMe" formula. But is it really necessary to take in supplemental form? Perhaps food is enough.
Larry's response to my "poor man's SAMe" post was interesting. One comment:
"Note that cyanocobalamin *consumes* SAMe. That's why methylcobalamin is the preferred form of B-12."
Another poster said that magnesium "switched on" TMG for him. The last time I took TMG I got extremely irritable until I took extra magnesium. (Magnesium has helped me more with depression than anything so I always take it.)
I was concerned that Dr. Walsh seemed to be warning against folic acid, which didn't make sense to me based on other things I've read and Larry agreed.
Another of Larry's interesting comments:
"SAMe turns into homocysteine when its used up. Deal with the homocysteine, by turning it back into methionine, and maybe you don't need SAMe supps at all."
Another poster's comment:
"SAMe is bad if you have high homocysteine levels because the supplemental SAMe, once it donates its methyl-group, becomes more homocysteine in your system. You need to address the homocysteine first (via TMG or methylcobalamin), only adding on SAMe if the problem lies in converting methionine to SAMe. Magnesium and things to boost the body's production of ATP (NADH?) would be worth considering first as these are what are needed to convert methionine to SAMe."
Later, I asked,
"Ok, I know I have to experiment with how it feels but wrt homocysteine, what if there is an imbalance between the homocysteine-increasing effect of methionine and the homocysteine-lowering effect of TMG? Iow, do I have to make sure to take "x" amount of TMG if I take "xx" amount of methionine?"
Larry said,
"If you're otherwise "normal", you will not develop hyperhomocysteinemia (high blood homocysteine) because the B12-dependent pathway back to methionine dominates. I would just monitor the psych effect of TMG, and not worry about homocysteine."
There was more info in those posts, but that was some of the highlights. I tend to slack off on my vitamins occasionally but now I am inspired to be more diligent about that B12, B6 and folate.
JL
Posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 11:34:01
In reply to Re: How to substitute TMG for SAM-e? » mila s, posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 10:53:48
The Life Extension Foundation magazine has a cover story on homocysteine this month as well as other articles such as this one: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/oct2006_report_homocysteine_01.htm
Excerpts:
Ways to Lower Homocysteine Naturally ...
Your choices for controlling homocysteine include:
• Folic acid. Folic acid is the most important factor in controlling homocysteine. Although the US recommended daily allowance (RDA) for adults is only 400 mcg,47 extensive survey data showed that an extraordinary 88% of US adults have a folic acid intake below the RDA.48 Low folic acid intake by pregnant women carries a particularly dire risk, causing devastating neural tube defects in newborns. Low folic acid intake from diet is a growing problem because of food processing. This prompted the FDA to mandate folic acid fortification in enriched grain products.
Fortification provides an estimated extra 100 mcg of folic acid daily for most adults and does indeed result in modest reductions of about 0.5 µmol/L in homocysteine. Nonetheless, obtaining sufficient quantities of folate (the food form of folic acid) from foods is difficult, and the majority of Americans not taking folic acid supplements have sufficiently low blood levels that allow higher homocysteine levels.49 Keep in mind that folic acid supplements are twice as bioavailable as folate from food.50 For example, 200 mcg of a folic acid supplement (as an individual supplement or added to grains) provides the same active quantity as 400 mcg of naturally occurring folate from food.51 If you do not eat grain products or you have a higher level of homocysteine, specific folic acid supplementation beyond that in your diet will be necessary. A daily folic acid dose of 800 mcg may lower homocysteine by around 25%.52-53 However, some doctors prescribe folic acid doses up to 5000 mcg for highly elevated homocysteine levels.
• Vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 deficiency is common and can contribute to rising homocysteine, particularly in people over 65. In rare cases, replacing folic acid alone can mask a latent B12 deficiency, resulting in nervous system disorders.
As a general rule, vitamin B12 and folic acid should be replaced together to maximize their homocysteine-lowering effects. Absorption of B12 is a little tricky, and in the past, physicians simply injected B12. However, more recent data suggest that a dose of 500-2000 mcg is every bit as good as an injection.54 A recent dose-exploring trial established that even 500 mcg of B12 achieves the same effect in correcting B12 deficiency as injectable forms. If you are not B12 deficient (discuss this with your doctor), then lesser doses are sufficient. Our clinic commonly advises patients to take 250 mcg of B12 along with folic acid, a dose that provides about two thirds of the effectiveness of the higher doses.54
• Vitamin B6. Taken along with folic acid, vitamin B6 is effective in blocking post-meal surges of homocysteine, particularly when methio-nine-rich meats are part of the meal. Low blood levels of B6 are common, especially in people with higher homocysteine levels.55 The precise dose of B6 required for maximum homocysteine lowering has been controversial, with doses of 2–50 mg commonly used in clinical studies. However, Dutch researchers who have extensive experience with homocysteine-lowering therapies routinely use 250 mg of B6 without ill effect.43,56,57
High-dose vitamin B6 (100-500 mg per day) has been used successfully in managing perimenstrual symptoms and carpal tunnel syndrome.58 However, in rare cases, higher doses may cause nervous system dysfunction (peripheral neuropathy).58 Most reported cases of neuropathy associated with vitamin B6 supplementation involved intake of 500 mg or more daily for two years or more.59 Vitamin B6 doses higher than 100 mg should therefore be used only under medical supervision. The vast majority of people obtain substantial homocysteine-lowering effects with 50-100 mg per day, provided folic acid is at optimal levels.
• Trimethylglycine (TMG). Also commonly known as betaine, TMG is a constituent of food. The average American ingests 500–2000 mg of TMG a day. Supplemental TMG reduces homocysteine starting at a dose of 1000 mg a day, up to a maximum 20% reduction at 6000 mg per day, the dose often used in severe homocysteine disorders.60TMG is the most effective nutritional agent for suppressing the after-meal surge in homocysteine, slashing levels up to 50%.60-62 We commonly use 2000 mg per day as a starting dose for fasting homocysteine levels that do not fully respond to the three B vitamins, using higher doses for the after-meal surge seen with methionine loading. Spinach and wheat germ are two particularly rich food sources of TMG. Be aware that the 6000-mg dose of TMG has been found to raise LDL by around 10%,63 and LDL should therefore be monitored when using this high dose of TMG.
• Choline. Choline is directly converted to TMG in the body. Choline is readily available in various foods and also as a nutritional supplement. Most people ingest 300-1000 mg a day from dietary sources. Choline has recently gained acceptance as an essential nutrient. To avoid deficiency states, the National Academy of Sciences and the US Institute of Medicine recommend a daily intake of 550 mg for men and 425 mg for women. Higher doses are required to obtain the full benefit of lowering homocysteine. Like TMG, choline has modest effects on fasting homocysteine and a larger effect on the after-meal surge of homocysteine.64 A common dose is 2000-4000 mg per day.
• Avoiding methionine-rich foods. Methionine is an amino acid found in food, particularly red meats and dairy products. Although methionine is an essential amino acid, it is also suspected to cause atherosclerotic plaque growth, both directly as well as indirectly by increasing homocysteine levels.65 The US RDA for methionine is 900 mg a day, but the average American takes in a greater quantity of around 2000 mg a day.37 If excess methionine is available in the diet, more homocysteine is produced. This provides the basis for one of the tests for hidden homocysteine excess, the “methionine-loading” test. The after-meal surge in homocysteine is prevented by vitamin B6 availability, along with choline and TMG.
• Fish oil. Along with its other remarkable benefits such as lowering triglycerides, reducing fibrinogen, and stabilizing abnormal heart rhythms, fish oil may lower homocysteine. Homocysteine reductions of 36-48% have been reported,66,67 though practical experience suggests a more modest drop of 1-2 µmol/L can be expected.
• Taurine. This amino acid and byproduct of methionine meta-bolism is emerging as a promising agent for reducing the dangers of homocysteine.68 However, further human data are needed to assess its effects.
• Exercise. In a cardiac rehabilitation program following bypass surgery, angioplasty, or heart attack, 76 participants experienced a modest 12% reduction in homocysteine just by engaging in a modest program of regular exercise. How or why exercise results in such a reduction is unclear, but this is yet another example of how physical activity yields broad health-promoting benefits.69 ...
Foods Rich In Choline And Trimethylglycine (Betaine)
Choline and trimethylglycine (TMG) both reduce homocysteine, particularly the surge of homocysteine that occurs after a methionine-rich meal (of meat, for example). Maximum lowering of homocysteine occurs when choline and trimethylglycine are combined with folate-rich foods or folic acid supplements. Below is a list of foods rich in choline or TMG. We confine our list to healthy foods that are rich in these two nutrients and exclude choline- or TMG-rich foods (such as sausage) that are clearly unhealthy for other reasons.To avoid liver disease from choline deficiency, the US Institute of Medicine recommends a daily choline intake of 550 mg for men and 425 mg for women. The precise dose of choline for lowering homocysteine is not well known, but our clinic has had success with 2000-4000 mg a day. TMG lowers homocysteine starting at a dose of 1000 mg a day, with full effect at 6000 mg per day. As noted previously, high-dose TMG intake may elevate LDL levels, which should be monitored with your doctor’s help.63"
I didn't list the food tables, but it's worth clicking on the article to see them. There's lots more other info in there too.
From that, I take that it's not necessary to take methionine in amino acid form, so once again Dr. Walsh of the Pfeiffer Clinic was wrong.
Interesting that fish oil may reduce homocysteine.
If I could afford to get tested for homocysteine, I would. It would be interesting to see if it was related to one's own depression symptoms as it went up or down.
JL
Posted by mila s on October 8, 2006, at 19:00:47
In reply to Re: How to substitute TMG for SAM-e? » mila s, posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 10:53:48
Thanks for the comprehensive information!
I think I will try 1500-2000mg TMG, plus a B-complex vitamin of 500mcg B12 (the methylcobalmine version), 800mcg folic acid, and the other Bs. I eat dairy regularly so I won't take methionine.
I will also add magnesium. However when I tried magnesium taurate by Cardiovascular Research, even just 125mg a day gave me mild diarrhea, so I stopped it. Can anyone recommend a different form of magnesium (and dosage amount) to try?
And I would still like to continue taking some SAM-e because I doubt the Bs plus TMG will be enough to give me the amount that direct 1600mg/day supplementation was giving. In fact I took the Bs and TMG along with the SAM-e previously. I would take higher doses now, but I'm concerned about overstimulation wiht TMG and other harms with respect to high doses of Folic acid or the other B vitamins (I'm not quite sure how high once can go with the various Bs).
The dilemma I now have with regard to the SAM-e however, is that the form of SAM-e I was taking was 1,4 butanedisulfonate made by Pharmaton. It has been discontinued for quite some time now and I can only find other brands offering the disulfate tosylate form which gives me severe stomach aches (I tried taking it with and without food to no avail). So I am looking for the butanedisulfonate form of SAM-e. If anyone knows of a brand that makes this form and where to buy, I would love to have the info. THANKS!
Posted by nolvas on October 8, 2006, at 19:22:33
In reply to Re: more questions: magnesium and SAM-e Forms, posted by mila s on October 8, 2006, at 19:00:47
Nture Made and GNC both sell the butanedisulfonate form of SAM-e.
http://www.familymeds.com/familymeds/product.asp?sku=03160401618&quantity=
" Active Ingredients
Per 2 Tablets: S-Adenosylmethionine 400 mg; 1,4-Butanedisulfonate; Cellulose; Sodium Starch Glycolate; Methacrylic Acid Copolymer; Talc; Polyethylene Glycol; Silica; Magnesium Stearate; Polysorbate 80; Sodium Hydroxide; Iron Oxide Simethicone "
Posted by mila s on October 8, 2006, at 21:07:34
In reply to Re: more questions: magnesium and SAM-e Forms, posted by nolvas on October 8, 2006, at 19:22:33
> Nture Made and GNC both sell the butanedisulfonate form of SAM-e.
Oh thanks, that is interesting. I read in some places online that Nature Made and GNC used to make that form but have now stopped. When I did a search, all I could find under these brands was the other formulation of SAM-e. I will call the online store you linked and make sure about expiration dates. Unfortunately it looks like that box of twenty only contains 200mg per tablet.
>
> http://www.familymeds.com/familymeds/product.asp?sku=03160401618&quantity=
>
> " Active Ingredients
> Per 2 Tablets: S-Adenosylmethionine 400 mg; 1,4-Butanedisulfonate; Cellulose; Sodium Starch Glycolate; Methacrylic Acid Copolymer; Talc; Polyethylene Glycol; Silica; Magnesium Stearate; Polysorbate 80; Sodium Hydroxide; Iron Oxide Simethicone "
>
>
Posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 22:45:10
In reply to Re: more questions: magnesium and SAM-e Forms, posted by mila s on October 8, 2006, at 19:00:47
> I will also add magnesium. However when I tried magnesium taurate by Cardiovascular Research, even just 125mg a day gave me mild diarrhea, so I stopped it. Can anyone recommend a different form of magnesium (and dosage amount) to try?That's a very modest amount of magnesium to be giving you diarrhea. It could be the type of magnesium, but I wonder also about "leaky gut syndrome". See the discussion about that in connection to magnesium, taurine and depression on George Eby's page about magnesium, depression and stress: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#leakyg
Later on he says:
"Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) has been reported by some people to minimize the loose bowels normally found using large amounts of magnesium. Very little information concerning this effect has been found in the literature, but the effect to those that have tried 100 mg CoQ10 with each dose of magnesium has been remarkable. Here is a link to "Altered Immunity & The Leaky Gut Syndrome" by Dr. Zoltan P. Rona MD, MSc, that goes into the biochemistry of leaky gut syndrome and what can be done about it better than any other article that I have found. CoQ10 is mentioned here, but little emphasis is placed on it. Looking into the relationship between yeasts and CoQ10, one finds that ubiquinones (in the human it is CoQ10) are essential for oxidative phosphorylation in both yeasts and humans. The human coenzyme Q, CoQ10, is also administered orally for the treatment of heart disease and other disorders. Some patients, however, require much higher doses than others to attain a therapeutic CoQ10 blood level. C. A. Krone et al. proposes that one possible explanation for this variability is excessive Candida colonization of the human GI tract. Many common medical treatments including antibiotics and anti-hyperchlorhydric agents increase the risk of GI tract Candida colonization. Subsequent uptake and utilization of supplemental CoQ10 by excessive yeast could diminish availability for the human subject. Data from one patient and an in vitro pilot study using two pathogenic strains of C. albicans supported Krone's hypothesis. If C. albicans in the GI tract can hinder availability and interfere with therapeutic effects of CoQ10, it could be of clinical significance for large numbers of depressed people having loose bowels from magnesium. Consequently, one can see a cause and effect relationship between ingestion of large amounts of CoQ10 and relief from loose bowels and diarrhea, thus improved recovery from depression due to improved absorption of magnesium. Consequently, the yeasts get fed their CoQ10 before we do, and sometimes we starve!"
Do you already take probiotics?
There are also some herbal formulas available for anti-Candida. NOW brand has one that includes oregano oil and pau d'arco that I've tried.
I also read somewhat recently that biotin is effective against the byproduct of candida, acetaldehyde, which is what is the problem.
Other good forms of magnesium are magnesium glycinate (well absorbable, chelated with amino acid glycine -- but may be sedating) magnesium orotate (considered especially good for the heart), magnesium citrate, magnesium malate, and magnesium chloride.
Contraindicated for depression are magnesium aspartate, and magnesium glutamate.
And don't forget the option of a nice long bath soak with Epsom salts -- magnesium sulfate.
JL
Posted by mila s on October 9, 2006, at 12:12:09
In reply to Re: magnesium » mila s, posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 22:45:10
Thanks JLx, I will try magnesium again wiht CoQ10, and probiotics. I have been taking biotin for over a year now (usually 1000 to 1500mcg). I may also try adding taurine as has been suggested on that site.
>
> That's a very modest amount of magnesium to be giving you diarrhea. It could be the type of magnesium, but I wonder also about "leaky gut syndrome". See the discussion about that in connection to magnesium, taurine and depression on George Eby's page about magnesium, depression and stress: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#leakyg
>
> Later on he says:
>
> "Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) has been reported by some people to minimize the loose bowels normally found using large amounts of magnesium. Very little information concerning this effect has been found in the literature, but the effect to those that have tried 100 mg CoQ10 with each dose of magnesium has been remarkable. Here is a link to "Altered Immunity & The Leaky Gut Syndrome" by Dr. Zoltan P. Rona MD, MSc, that goes into the biochemistry of leaky gut syndrome and what can be done about it better than any other article that I have found. CoQ10 is mentioned here, but little emphasis is placed on it. Looking into the relationship between yeasts and CoQ10, one finds that ubiquinones (in the human it is CoQ10) are essential for oxidative phosphorylation in both yeasts and humans. The human coenzyme Q, CoQ10, is also administered orally for the treatment of heart disease and other disorders. Some patients, however, require much higher doses than others to attain a therapeutic CoQ10 blood level. C. A. Krone et al. proposes that one possible explanation for this variability is excessive Candida colonization of the human GI tract. Many common medical treatments including antibiotics and anti-hyperchlorhydric agents increase the risk of GI tract Candida colonization. Subsequent uptake and utilization of supplemental CoQ10 by excessive yeast could diminish availability for the human subject. Data from one patient and an in vitro pilot study using two pathogenic strains of C. albicans supported Krone's hypothesis. If C. albicans in the GI tract can hinder availability and interfere with therapeutic effects of CoQ10, it could be of clinical significance for large numbers of depressed people having loose bowels from magnesium. Consequently, one can see a cause and effect relationship between ingestion of large amounts of CoQ10 and relief from loose bowels and diarrhea, thus improved recovery from depression due to improved absorption of magnesium. Consequently, the yeasts get fed their CoQ10 before we do, and sometimes we starve!"
>
> Do you already take probiotics?
>
> There are also some herbal formulas available for anti-Candida. NOW brand has one that includes oregano oil and pau d'arco that I've tried.
>
> I also read somewhat recently that biotin is effective against the byproduct of candida, acetaldehyde, which is what is the problem.
>
> Other good forms of magnesium are magnesium glycinate (well absorbable, chelated with amino acid glycine -- but may be sedating) magnesium orotate (considered especially good for the heart), magnesium citrate, magnesium malate, and magnesium chloride.
>
> Contraindicated for depression are magnesium aspartate, and magnesium glutamate.
>
> And don't forget the option of a nice long bath soak with Epsom salts -- magnesium sulfate.
>
> JL
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 13, 2006, at 14:19:20
In reply to Re: magnesium » mila s, posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 22:45:10
Hiya.
> And don't forget the option of a nice long bath soak with Epsom salts -- magnesium sulfate.
My mother goes on about the health benefits she receives from swimming in (finnish) lakes... she maintains that the minerals etc get absorbed into her skin...I always thought she was talking gibberish, but maybe she has a good point.Kind regards
Meri
BTW, you're probably sick to death of this, but can you give me a very brief guide as to how magnesium helped you and specically which type?
Posted by Jlx on October 13, 2006, at 15:16:35
In reply to Re: magnesium, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 13, 2006, at 14:19:20
> Hiya.
>
> > And don't forget the option of a nice long bath soak with Epsom salts -- magnesium sulfate.
>
>
> My mother goes on about the health benefits she receives from swimming in (finnish) lakes... she maintains that the minerals etc get absorbed into her skin...I always thought she was talking gibberish, but maybe she has a good point.She very well might. Traditional healing spas where there are hot sprngs and the like, are full of magnesium and other minerals. http://commongroundmag.com/2006/10/springs0610.html
> BTW, you're probably sick to death of this, but can you give me a very brief guide as to how magnesium helped you and specically which type?
I was on Zoloft and Provigil -- and still suicidally depressed -- when I stumbled across George Eby's website about depression, magnesium and stress. I thought it was worth a try. (I had already ordered some when I asked my psychiatrist about it! Who, incidentally, did say that fish oil "might help" when I asked him about that too.) Eby was recommending Carlson's brand magnesium glycinate then, so that's what I bought. I took either 600 or 800 mg the first day, don't remember exactly. The next day I felt enormously better, as in brighter, not depressed, more energy, more hopeful -- as if my black and white world was switched overnight to color. I actually could hardly believe it. I was expecting magnesium glycinate to be like every other supplement I'd tried -- no effect, or "can't be sure" even after a month. I felt so good, so much better, I couldn't bring myself to take those meds again.
I also cut out my usual dairy foods, which I think was key to my magnesium success because it was probably not just the magnesium I was deficient in but the imbalance of calcium to magnesium that was the problem. I had had a calcium kidney stone previously from taking supplements and had quit taking them, so it was just food that I was getting too much calcium from.
I felt great for about 2 months, then some depression came creeping back but in general, I would say that magnesium helped me feel about 50-60% less depressed over the approx 3 years I've been taking it.
Now I usually take magnesium taurate and/or magnesium orotate or magnesium malate, and much less than I did at first -- 200-600 mg as opposed to 600-1,000 mg.
I still notice a direct effect in that if I'm particularly irritable or if I am having very dark self-tormenting thoughts, I take more magnesium and it helps.
I think magnesium (with tyrosine and selenium) also helped clear up some thyroid problems and also my dry skin. I had this horrible dry itchy skin that was mostly impervious to bath oil and lotion. The very next day after my first day of magnesium glycinate, I woke up and reached up to scratch my forehead as usual and found soft moist skin instead of the usual dry scales! I also sat up in bed and stretched like a cat, like my muscles and joints were eased.
Naturally I've taken quite an interest in magnesium since then, reading "The Miracle of Magnesium" by Carolyn Dean, M.D., and "The Magnesium Factor", by Mildred Seelig, M.D. for instance. (I see on Amazon that Carolyn Dean, who is also a doctor of naturopathy, is coming out with a new book on magnesium in Dec.)
While the connection of magnesium to depression is not clear cut, there are some reasonable scientific explanations for why it would be helpful. Magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker into the cell, for instance, and too much calcium can be excitotoxic to the brain. Magnesium also expands blood vessels and is related to the relaxant function of muscles (while calcium, the contracture). It's also involved in over 350 enzymatic functions in the body so it's not unreasonable to think that nothing works right without it, especially considering the stress response which depletes magnesium.
Well, that wasn't brief, was it? :)
JL
Posted by teejay on October 19, 2006, at 19:26:49
In reply to Re: magnesium » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Jlx on October 13, 2006, at 15:16:35
Great post and quite spooky really as I found a posting of yours from 2003 talking about the cold cure site and raving about your magnesium success and had intended asking you how you felt it had benefited you now it was 3 years further on.
Seems I dont need to ask now :-)
Thanks
Teejay
This is the end of the thread.
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