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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by verne on March 16, 2006, at 10:30:28
I took about six grams of Kanna powder and the bad outweighed the good. There may have been a "high" in there somewhere but I mostly felt queasiness and slight agitation. My stomach bothered me for a couple days, too.
Next, I'm putting ashwagandha and albizzia through a series of extremely imprecise "sea trials".
Basically, I just take massive quantities of anything with psychotropic promise until I feel something.
verne
Posted by nolvas on March 16, 2006, at 16:45:36
In reply to Bad Reaction to Kanna, posted by verne on March 16, 2006, at 10:30:28
Kanna reputedly works to enhance Serotonin like SSRIs. Usually dosage is something like 50mg to 100mg of raw Kanna. So 6 grams is a huge dosage.
I hope you have more success with Ashwaghanda. I tried a quality brand standardised to 1.5% withanolides but I just felt more anxious. Possibly it was psychological as I'm a wary and phobic of taking new things. I believe you are taking a larger amount of withanolides so this may work for you. Keep us posted will be great to know your results.
Posted by LOOPS on March 16, 2006, at 20:34:36
In reply to Re: Bad Reaction to Kanna, posted by nolvas on March 16, 2006, at 16:45:36
Hi -
I also feel more anxious on ashwagandha. I feel great on a strong extract of siberian ginseng though (imperial elixir is good, but you can get cheaper and stronger extracts too). I like Holy Basil as well for anxiety. Ginkgo makes me anxious but full of ideas, and also makes me eat lots of food.
Loops
Posted by verne on March 16, 2006, at 21:07:43
In reply to Re: Bad Reaction to Kanna, posted by LOOPS on March 16, 2006, at 20:34:36
Loops, novalis:
I have some Holy Basil gel caps made by New Chapter that I hope to try soon.
I noticed a kind of dwarf Morning Glory included in some anxiety formulas. Anyone try this? Here's a link, scroll down: http://www.allayurveda.com/topic_month_march2004.htm
I find ginseng too stimulating. Same is true for bacopa, gotu gola, and fo-ti. I could add more to this list but I'm so spaced out tonight I can't remember their names.
Anxiety is still my biggest concern and a key component of my atypical depression and near agoraphobia.
I hope the albizzia flowers work out better than the bark. I took massive doses of the bark powder with no effect. I'm so sick of tea but not sure how else to ingest the albizzia flowers. If I grind them into a powder would there be any benefit? Don't I have to "extract" the active ingredients somehow?
The jury is still out with ashwagandha. I've been too distracted to really know whether I've experienced anything good so far. I hope to get more organized soon.
this is what i be hoping.
verne
Posted by nolvas on March 16, 2006, at 21:31:46
In reply to Holy Basil, posted by verne on March 16, 2006, at 21:07:43
My experience with Ashwaghanda so far is that it makes me feel more anxious, this was quite depressing as it's supposed to have the opposite effect. I only use a 1.5% standardised extract. I tried it for a week. I hope to trial it for a month but I couldn't stand feeling more anxious.
I've just bought 10lbs (4.5KG) of whey protein concentrate. I hope to do some moderate exercise and gym work. I'm also hoping this whey concentrate has enough alpha lactabulmin which is a potent source of tryptophan. There have been positive results with people saying they felt better after taking whey protein. This won't suit anyone who is lactose intolerant however I'm not and I see to tolerate this stuff well so far. I'm going give it a couple weeks before I evaluate if it's had a calming or anxiolytic effect.
Posted by Declan on March 16, 2006, at 22:08:54
In reply to Re: Holy Basil, posted by nolvas on March 16, 2006, at 21:31:46
had a good effect on my digestion, and I think I remember that there was a fraction of lactoferrin that contained a lot of tryptophan.
Declan
Posted by nolvas on March 17, 2006, at 20:33:02
In reply to Re: Bad Reaction to Kanna, posted by LOOPS on March 16, 2006, at 20:34:36
LOOPS I was wondering what brand of Holy Basil you used? I plan to get some from iherb next time I order some GABA Relaxer from them.
iherb have a few brands but I'm not sure which is good.
Posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 0:16:56
In reply to Re: Holy Basil - LOOPS, posted by nolvas on March 17, 2006, at 20:33:02
I took a few gel caps of New Chapter's Holy Basil before bed last night and had a rougher than usual nite. Got up hours later, heart pounding, unable to sleep.
I probably shouldn't experiment with herbs right before bed.
I have a big container of whey powder and hope to try that soon. Perhaps I'll order the milk protein hydrosolate too. Money is no object when it comes to anxiety. (although I later feel anxious about my spending)
Meanwhile, I still take herbs like Yellow Dock, Goldenseal, and Feverfew occasionally for anxiety. Painkillers like Feverfew tend to settle me down - but I can't take them every day.
Yellow Dock is a "cooling" herb and is calming in that sense. Valerian, by contrast, is heating and just makes me agitated. I feel jazzed up and sluggish at the same time. It's as though my body fights it. So more and more I'm exploring cooling herbs for my brand of anxiety - the "runaway train on fire" model.
I'm still looking for something as good as valium (or pot). I'm glad we are comparing notes on what's working and not working for anxiety.
verne
Posted by nolvas on March 18, 2006, at 6:25:37
In reply to Holy Basil, posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 0:16:56
I haven't found anything that works as well as valium so far. Then again I haven't tried a decent quality Kava Kava and can't because it's banned here in the UK.
Milk Protein Hydrolysate in studies has been found to work as well as valium. (I think that's too good to believe) Maybe I'll try some Trypotozen as well from iherb or go for the cheaper option of a trial pack of Dolisos Seriane which has the same ingredients. Whey protein should contain some milk protein hydrolysate I would think, although whey's anxiolytic properties seem to come from Alpha Lactalbulmin which is rich in Tryptophan.
What does seem to work a little is GABA Relaxer by country life. I plan to get some more from iherb as it's cheaper to get it there than in the UK and you get 3 times more pills as well. I also take half the dosage as too much GABA makes me more anxious and breathless. Half the dose seems to work better for me (1 pill).
Posted by Declan on March 18, 2006, at 18:19:49
In reply to Re: Holy Basil, posted by nolvas on March 18, 2006, at 6:25:37
For Cooling.....Baicall scullcap?
For calming.....Scullcap, zizyphus?Passionflower makes me react.
Valerian is contraindicated in the depressed.So people find Withania stimulating, in spite of the name?
Declan
Posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 18:44:25
In reply to Herbs, posted by Declan on March 18, 2006, at 18:19:49
I just discovered some Nature's Way Skullcap in the back of the cupboard. I've brought it to the front and hope to get it into the lineup.
According to "The Yoga of Herbs" skullcap is a super herb for meditation - helps open the sixth chakra or "third eye" I think. It's either that or the crown chakra. I'm too lazy to look it up -probably because half my chakras are down and I have poor connectivity with the rest.
Yoga of Herbs is an excellent reference book for herbs. The author has an ayurvedic perspective.
verne
Posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 21:19:49
In reply to Skullcap, posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 18:44:25
This is the best I've felt in months. I took about 4 caps of Nature's Way "premium extract" Feverfew about 7 hours ago and I've felt wonderful all day. Calm, with spirits lifted and able to concentrate, I cleaned the entire kitchen - happily.
I've been more and more impressed with Feverfew. I usually take so many supplements it's hard to know what's doing what, but everytime I feel a kind of calm euphoria, I remember having taken Feverfew earlier.
I googled the words "feverfew" and "anxiety" and came across a lot of reports about "post feverfew syndrome" - when long-term, heavy users stop abruptly. This may actually be a good sign. Valium works, and it, too, has a withdrawal syndrome. (I hope I put enough commas into that sentence)
And I also came across positive reports of Feverfew's use in anxiety. On one message board a young woman with sudden onset of panic attacks after a car accident, discovered Feverfew was the only thing that worked for her anxiety.
Some herb sites list it along side the usual suspects like valerian and passion flower, although it's better known as a headache remedy.
Remember, "Premium Extract" if you go with Nature's Way. Not sure how it compares to other brands in efficacy and price.
Verne
Posted by nolvas on March 19, 2006, at 5:23:10
In reply to Feverfew, posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 21:19:49
Feverfew is a 5HT antagonist according to the study below. However it's also said that Feverfew helps the brain release more Serotonin.
Feverfew is a popular herbal remedy for the prevention and mitigation of migraine headaches. It may help the brain to release more serotonin and reduce the inflammation response associated with migraines.
I don't mind admitting that feverfew confuses me at the moment. That study shows feverfew has antiserotonergic activity, yet other sites say it helps the brain increase Serotonin. I hope some one can explain it :(
btw the best brand (it's been used in studies) of Feverfew is Tanacet. My ex g/f takes it to prevent migraines. It works really well, she's currently on Cipramil for depression/OCD and it still works whether she is using an SSRI or not.
http://www.herballaboratories.com/
Posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 8:39:46
In reply to Feverfew, posted by verne on March 18, 2006, at 21:19:49
Hi there Verne.
Feverfew is really helping me with my migraines (thanks for the recommendation!) and it does ease my anxiety as well. I think I have been anxious partly because of the recurring pain from the migraines...ClearSkies
Posted by verne on March 21, 2006, at 8:50:25
In reply to Re: Feverfew » verne, posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 8:39:46
That's great. I had just taken my morning dose of Feverfew before I saw your post.
Anti-inflammatories and pain killers, like advil and aspirin, have always made me sleepy. Feverfew works in a more subtle way to calm me, yet without the side effects.
Feverfew is now in my cupboard's starting line-up.
Verne
Posted by verne on March 21, 2006, at 15:21:04
In reply to Re: Feverfew » ClearSkies, posted by verne on March 21, 2006, at 8:50:25
I should have added that nothing, even Feverfew, works every time. It seems like my favorite few supplements work better when taken periodically (once or twice a week)
So I'm still looking for the ultimate cure for anxiety. I just ordered TryptoZen and Gaba Relaxer at iherb.com
Verne
Posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:05:13
In reply to Tryptozen and Gaba Relaxer, posted by verne on March 21, 2006, at 15:21:04
I have had great results with MaxSed for anxiety alone. I think that tolerance builds rapidly, though, based on my personal experience.
ClearSkies
Posted by LOOPS on March 21, 2006, at 16:32:18
In reply to Re: Tryptozen and Gaba Relaxer » verne, posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:05:13
I use Source Naturals Holy Basil - but also have tried NOW brand and that seems to be good too.
Right now I'm still fiddling with Ca/Mg dose. Oh, and I'm still having really good results using valerian/passiflora for sleep (apart from last night but that was a real exception).
I just feel if I could get this Ca/Mg thing right, everything else would be much better. Dang it - too much Ca makes me depressed and tired, and too little makes me adged.
Soooo sensitive to stuff. Pass the wine.
Loops
Posted by linkadge on March 25, 2006, at 16:43:07
In reply to Holy Basil, posted by LOOPS on March 21, 2006, at 16:32:18
Yeah, feverfew was a good herb for me too. It acts as a 5-ht2a/b receptor anagonist I believe which may confer the anti-anxiety effects.
I found that feverfew was able to reduce some of the side effects of SSRI's, namely anhedonia, and cognitive problems.
I mixed the two herbs feverfew (2a antagonism) and dong quai (5-ht1a agonism) which seemed to work in synergy. I think that some of the newer atypical antipsychotics derive their benefit from a combination of these two actions.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on April 7, 2006, at 18:10:55
In reply to Holy Basil, posted by LOOPS on March 21, 2006, at 16:32:18
I'm drinking holy basil and green tea this morning. Is this holy basil good stuff? I feel spooked. Will it help?
Declan
Posted by Johnny Baklava on April 1, 2009, at 15:54:36
In reply to Holy Basil, posted by verne on March 16, 2006, at 21:07:43
I took Holy Basil for about two weeks. Initially, I was amazed! It felt like Zoloft. I started by splitting a capsule, taking half in the morning and half in the afternoon. I felt like myself for the first time in a long time. Then, after about two weeks, for some reason, I began getting sad and anxious, usually at noon. I have a lot of things going on now, just lost my job for one, so I wasn't completely sure if it was the HB or not. I tried reducing it, but still had this weird sad anxiety at noon. I'm going to stop it altogether and see what happens. It makes me sad because I felt like, for the first time in a while, I found an herb that really worked for me. Now I feel that it may be just another thing that didn't work for me. Makes me kind of hopeless, actually.
This is the end of the thread.
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