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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 15:54:11
When I take Magnesium Oxide right before bedtime, I have disturbing vivid dreams up to the time I wake up. If I take the Magnesium in the morning, I am sleepy during the day and my dreams aren't as disturbing but just very vivid and bizaare. I am also taking SJW 3/day. I am taking the Magnesium because I am also taking Calcium and have a strong family history of Osteoporosis and I'm PMSing real bad again already.
Posted by tealady on October 22, 2004, at 16:17:41
In reply to Magnesium is giving me nightmares, posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 15:54:11
Do you always take the magnesium with the calcium? What type of calcium do you take?
What symptoms of PMS are you getting?..migraines, swelling, anxiety, depression, irritability, tired etc?
Also do you take anything else?
Any other symptoms..like white spots in fingernails? (that usually means you need to add in some zinc)
I used to PMS bad too and lost a lot of bone..but didn't have the vivid dreams..think that was caus I was low on oestrogen and you need that to dream
I had a patch of vivid dreams lately, I can't recall what I was taking now to start that?
You may need to take some B6 to help process the magnesium. It also helps with PMS swelling and possibly with migraines too.
And you may need the P5P form for absorption (enteric coated) as well as a good overall multiB or multiB C in about say a 10 -25 dose for most ingredients. Sometimes taking one "B" ..like a B6 needs all the others for balance.Hope this helps in some way
Jan
Posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 20:35:53
In reply to Re: Magnesium is giving me nightmares » laurie_lu, posted by tealady on October 22, 2004, at 16:17:41
My PMS symptoms : intense depression & moodiness, fatigue, severe abdominal bloating with 5lb + weight gain, painful breasts, arthritic type pain in hips, pressure in my eyes. This sets when I ovulate and is full force at 10 days prior to my period.
Currently taking: Tums for calcium(750mg), multivitamin, lutein, B-Complex 50mg, magnesium oxide 250mg, St. John's Wort. Calcium and magnesium are not taken at the same time.
Dreams this bad disappear once I stop taking the magnesium. I've tested this theory a few times and they always happen when I'm taking the magnesium.
Posted by jujube on October 23, 2004, at 8:54:33
In reply to Re: Magnesium is giving me nightmares, posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 20:35:53
I recently started taking 500 mg of magnesium before bed, along with 500 mg of Taurine, to help me sleep. Last night I had the worst night terror I have had in a long time. I used to have really bad night terrors frequently, but in recent years, they seemed to have pretty much disappeared. Last night, I awoke in such a fright. My heart was pounding and I was shaking. I was sure I was actually screaming out loud, but, since my dog wasn't freaking out, I must have just been screaming in the dream. It took about 10 - 15 minutes to calm down. I will take the magnesium again tonight to see if it happens again. If so, then I guess I will either stop the magnesium or take it during the day. Thanks for the tip.
Tamara
> My PMS symptoms : intense depression & moodiness, fatigue, severe abdominal bloating with 5lb + weight gain, painful breasts, arthritic type pain in hips, pressure in my eyes. This sets when I ovulate and is full force at 10 days prior to my period.
>
> Currently taking: Tums for calcium(750mg), multivitamin, lutein, B-Complex 50mg, magnesium oxide 250mg, St. John's Wort. Calcium and magnesium are not taken at the same time.
>
> Dreams this bad disappear once I stop taking the magnesium. I've tested this theory a few times and they always happen when I'm taking the magnesium.
Posted by tealady on October 23, 2004, at 17:07:15
In reply to Re: Magnesium is giving me nightmares, posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 20:35:53
Thanks.
In your multi how much zinc is there ..elemental zinc prefereably?I looked back at when I had those vivid dreams (not nigtmares, just a weird dream).
It was end of September.
I found out it was the day my estrogen levels were highest..so for starters I had enough estrogen. So it looks like you probably have enough estrogen <g>Also that night before bed I'd taken some liquid iron and a multi..normally I'd only take these in the morning, but I was trying to lift myself out of a deep depression..that bit worked, but I got the dreams<g> (not that I minded)
So if you take your multi at night..swap it to morning. ...also with any iron(there may be some in your multi)..morning preferably.
Also I'd run out of my P5P about 2 weeks before.
As I said in my last post, I think you need some P5p B6 maybe.
In the US you can buy this from a lot of places.
Iherb have a one I was taking.
http://www.iherb.com/p5p1.html
but there are others.
You have to get one that is enteric coated or one you dissolve under your tongue should also work.If you try the one I was taking..just drop all the other magnesium. (its got enough in it for you daily dose).
So if I it was me, I'd drop the magnesium and go and buy some P5P like this and try that with your other things.
Let me know if you do and it works!I'm unsure what lutein does as I've never tried it.
SJW could possibly cause nightmares,..I think I had some when I was on it, but its too long ago for me to remember. Perhaps some others who have tried it can comment on whether they had nightmares on it:)
Also I thinks its fine to take calcium and magnesium together..but iron(as in a multi) should be taken at least 4 hrs away from calcium.
I always take my calcium before bed for this reason..plus it does help with sleep too, then the multi in the morning.
B6 is something we females tend to lack..we pee it out a lot more than males in our urine apparently (told this by a gyno-urologist)
So maybe give that a go? andlet me know how it goes? There are other thigs you can try to lift your depression as well if that doesn't work.
Also the B6 (P5P form preferably) should stop that bloating..it is a mild diuretic. It ALWAYS for me like that.
Jan
Posted by JLx on October 23, 2004, at 19:31:16
In reply to Magnesium is giving me nightmares, posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 15:54:11
> When I take Magnesium Oxide right before bedtime, I have disturbing vivid dreams up to the time I wake up. If I take the Magnesium in the morning, I am sleepy during the day and my dreams aren't as disturbing but just very vivid and bizaare. I am also taking SJW 3/day. I am taking the Magnesium because I am also taking Calcium and have a strong family history of Osteoporosis and I'm PMSing real bad again already.
Hmm...that's a puzzler. I have heard of Vit B6 causing nightmares but not magnesium. My guess is that it's likely something that the magnesium is affecting rather than the mg itself. I looked around on the web and found a couple ideas:
About HTP: "Higher doses may lead to a greater number of disturbing dreams and nightmares due to abnormally prolonged REM sleep." http://www.holistic-online.com/Remedies/Sleep/sleep_ins_nutrition.htm
This site also notes bizarre or strange dreams as a side effect of tryptophan. http://www.healthrecovery.com/
Perhaps the magnesium is increasing the serotonin effect of the SJW?
Or histamine, too much copper?
Nightmares: Suspect a magnesium deficiency and/or histamine reactions (rule out food sensitivity). http://www.myvits.com/html/doctortips.asp#23
"Unfortunately, too much copper causes nightmares. Don't eat chocolate, peanut butter or grapes before bedtime if you want to have sweet dreams." http://www.cyber-nation.com/livingston/healthstores/meltdown2/snooze.html
Estrogen increases copper: http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C514620.html
I wonder if another form of magnesium might have a different affect? If you eat a lot of whole grains, veggies, nut and seeds and such or drink hard water you might not even need magnesium.
I agree with tealady though that you can take the two together, or nearly so, as the Tums might reduce stomach acid too much so that the mg wouldn't dissolve. I don't know, just guessing.
You might also just try reducing the magnesium incase you are over a saturation point or something like that.
I'm going to watch my copper intake from now on to see if it coincides with any nightmares.
JL
Posted by JLx on October 23, 2004, at 20:04:19
In reply to Re: Magnesium is giving me nightmares, posted by laurie_lu on October 22, 2004, at 20:35:53
> My PMS symptoms : intense depression & moodiness, fatigue, severe abdominal bloating with 5lb + weight gain, painful breasts, arthritic type pain in hips, pressure in my eyes. This sets when I ovulate and is full force at 10 days prior to my period.
> Currently taking: Tums for calcium(750mg), multivitamin, lutein, B-Complex 50mg, magnesium oxide 250mg, St. John's Wort. Calcium and magnesium are not taken at the same time.
>
> Dreams this bad disappear once I stop taking the magnesium. I've tested this theory a few times and they always happen when I'm taking the magnesium.Thinking about this some more, I'm wondering if something is happening with the calcium magnesium ratio. I Googled "calcium nightmares" and some people seem to think that calcium prevents nightmares. My understanding of the two is that they're not really antagonistic directly, but are somewhat indirectly, while they also potentiate each other. So maybe you need to either take a more absorbable form of calcium, or take more of it and less magnesium. Or conversely, if you're taking too much calcium and not enough magnesium to help the absorption of that amount of calcium, then maybe you aren't getting even the amount of calcium that you think you are. So, perhaps taking them in even amounts or tipping the balance the exact opposite way would be worth the experiment.
Some interesting stuff on PMS, including a breakdown into different types:
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C296815.html
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C52340.html
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C53229.html
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C54118.htmlJL
Posted by laurie_lu on October 23, 2004, at 20:17:35
In reply to Re: Calcium magnesium ratio/PMS, posted by JLx on October 23, 2004, at 20:04:19
Thanks everyone. You've definately given me lots to think about. Maybe the SJW in the mix is the culprit too. The SJW doesn't seem to be helping my depression at all. I had high hopes for it. I wonder if I should cut it out and rely on healthy supplements to keep me leveled and balanced. It gets so confusing.
Posted by JLx on October 23, 2004, at 20:24:55
In reply to Re: Calcium magnesium ratio/PMS, posted by laurie_lu on October 23, 2004, at 20:17:35
> Thanks everyone. You've definately given me lots to think about. Maybe the SJW in the mix is the culprit too. The SJW doesn't seem to be helping my depression at all. I had high hopes for it. I wonder if I should cut it out and rely on healthy supplements to keep me leveled and balanced. It gets so confusing.
It is confusing and frustrating too. But sometimes the experimentation can pay off. Have you ever tried tyrosine or DLPA? Perhaps you don't need a serotonin booster as much as something for dopamine and norepinephrine. The good thing about amino acids is that generally they work pretty fast.
Dr. Slagle, from The Way Up site, has a free ebook that I found helpful on on the amino acids and neurotransmitters: http://www.thewayup.com/ebook/ebook.htmJL
Posted by tealady on October 23, 2004, at 21:37:43
In reply to Re: Calcium magnesium ratio/PMS, posted by laurie_lu on October 23, 2004, at 20:17:35
> Thanks everyone. You've definately given me lots to think about. Maybe the SJW in the mix is the culprit too. The SJW doesn't seem to be helping my depression at all. I had high hopes for it. I wonder if I should cut it out and rely on healthy supplements to keep me leveled and balanced. It gets so confusing.
I was going to comment on tyrosine too..like JL did!<g>
I thought though, you need good B6 levels to handle that too..and your bloating is a huge indicator you haven't got good B6 levels..dead givaway usually. It is with me!
So that is why I suggested the B6 (preferably P5P B6 to make sure you really absorb it!) to try first..and then let me know how it goes.
Also The reason I suggested dropping your magnesium, .is like JL says,
Mag Oxide is known to be not that absorbable a form so I thought if you got that Now brand P5P I linked to, you would get a really good form of magnesium as well.. that would fix any magnesium malabsorption problems creating any calcium/magnesium imbalance problems to..that's why I specified that on in particular.
JL is right about Mag Oxide needing good stomach acid levels to be absorbed..and the TUMS will reduce your stomch acid levels..It did occur to me too, but like I said, if you drop that magnesium oxide and take that P5P brand all is covered<g>
I'm just lazy in typing..I'm a very slow, poor typist, mostly hit the wrong keys in all knind orders, a post can take me hours really<g>Also I did note(Like JL) the form of calcium (TUms) you are taking will reduce acidity in your stomach. And even maybe make you a alkaline..heard that but not sure on..but I wanted to it getting too complicated.
So I thought if you tried that Now brand P5P first..and if it didn't work..
then switch your calcium to a different type..suggest Calcium Citrate if you can get it maybe as one to try..or calcium phosphate ..there are a few different good ones
Also the calc carbonate form may possibly increase depression...or stop it lifting maybeand then if your depression/nightmares were still hanging in there I was going to suggest dropping the SJW maybe and trying trysoine..but you'd need good B6 P5P levels as well as a good form of magnesium probably for this to work (DLPA(as JL said to) may work instead of tyrosine but its a step more required by your body)
and to finish off I was going to ask about how heavy your menses are..and if heavy suggest you get a ferritin level blood test done(and if below 50) ..try liquid iron...like ferrous gluconate every morning to relieve the depression
Grin..didn't want to throw too much at ya, best to try one cahnge at a time to see how each affects ya
Jan
PS if all that didn't work, I got even more ideas <grin>
Posted by laurie_lu on October 23, 2004, at 22:03:38
In reply to Re: Calcium magnesium ratio/PMS » laurie_lu, posted by tealady on October 23, 2004, at 21:37:43
I checked out the link to the P5P and it says the magnesium is 70% Magnesium oxide. While only 25% is Magnesium Taurinate. So don't I want magnesium that is more the 'taurinate' type?
My B6 I am taking is 50mg pyridoxine hcl. The P5P brand is only 33 mg as Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate. Is there an important difference in the types of B6?
Could I take my Tums in the evening so that it doesn't interfere with the absorption of the Magnesium that I take in the mornings now?
My periods are fairly light and not long in duration. The PMS 10 days prior is much worse due to the depression and bloating. I've only been on SJW for a little over 6 weeks. If I decide to stop using it, do I need to taper off of it like perscription ADs?
I am truely impressed with the amount of knowledge you guys have in reguards to this stuff. Thanks!
Posted by tealady on October 23, 2004, at 23:19:42
In reply to Re: Calcium magnesium ratio/PMS, posted by laurie_lu on October 23, 2004, at 22:03:38
> I checked out the link to the P5P and it says the magnesium is 70% Magnesium oxide. While only 25% is Magnesium Taurinate. So don't I want magnesium that is more the 'taurinate' type?
>Yes but at least this provides some of the taurinate type and more importantly it provides The P5P in an enteric coated form at a reasonable price
> My B6 I am taking is 50mg pyridoxine hcl. The P5P brand is only 33 mg as Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate. Is there an important difference in the types of B6? You could just add in the P5P type, If it makes a difference , you'll know within one cycle..or 6 weeks at the most..greatly reduced bloating for starters?
DEFINITELY, you can only try it and see.
It may not be your problem, as you seem to have dream recall, Just thought it was worth a try.Some folks have trouble-converting pyridoxine into P5P. Those susceptible to a deficiency include women on estrogen-containing oral contraceptive pills.
It is primarily in the liver that P5P is synthesized from pyridoxine with the help of enzymes this requires Vitamin B2, zinc and magnesium for their activity. P5P is associated with numerous enzymes, many of which are involved in amino acid metabolism.
>
> Could I take my Tums in the evening so that it doesn't interfere with the absorption of the Magnesium that I take in the mornings now?Yep, that's one point I was trying to make. as in previus post..worth a try , but if that doesn't work, might be worth trying different forms
>
> My periods are fairly light and not long in duration.well that's good..that makes you are probably OK with iron/ferritin levels
The PMS 10 days prior is much worse due to the depression and bloating. I've only been on SJW for a little over 6 weeks. If I decide to stop using it, do I need to taper off of it like perscription ADs?
it's usually wise to..I did and so did some others.
Some of us had trouble withdrawing from it..but I think SJW takes a while to work too so hopefully you will get to hear from others. I forget how long it was before SJW started working with me
>
> I am truely impressed with the amount of knowledge you guys have in reguards to this stuff. Thanks!Maybe we have been thru it b4? :)
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