![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 461 to 485 of 795. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2014, at 9:49:55
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2014, at 21:38:53
> > A. Do you think that you have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to see if what is in a posted link here is in accordance with your rules here?
>
> True. Maybe I was irresponsible in that case.
>
> > B. There could be another reason that I did not sanction the post for the anti-Semitic statements because I wrote that {maybe} I assumed that there were not.
>
> True. There could be, I'm not sure, it was a long time ago.
>
> > D. The anti-Semitic statements could put down Jews and you as a Jew here, Lou, and lower the opinion of you here because I am allowing the statements to stand which could mean that a subset of readers could think that anti-Semitism is supportive by me and not against my rules.
>
> I don't know. I haven't read them carefully.
>
> > E. I agree with you, Lou, that there is not any exception to allow statements that could put down Jews and will post something that repudiates the statements to show that the statements that are anti-Semitic are not supportive and they are not in accordance with my rule to not post links that have anti-Semitic statements, period.
>
> True, there isn't any exception in the FAQ. False, I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived...].
The grammatical structure of your statement could lead a subset of readers to think that you are reneging on the terms and conditions that we agreed on for this discussion on the basis that you are saying that you have a justification for not posting a repudiation to a post here that has anti-Semitic statements which is that the post in in the archives.
But the post here was also in the archives.
I would like for you to post any difference between the two posts as that you did post some sort of repudiation to the one and you are now saying that you are justified to not post a repudiation to the other because it is in the archives where the other post was in the archives. If you could post your rationale, if any, for the posting of a repudiation to the one and not the other, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou Pilder
Here is the link to the post where you did post a repudiation and it was in the archives.
[ faith, 1050644 ]
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 21, 2014, at 3:01:58
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-jmpbkihndahaly » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2014, at 9:49:55
> > I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived.
>
> The grammatical structure of your statement could lead a subset of readers to think that you are reneging on the terms and conditions that we agreed on for this discussion on the basis that you are saying that you have a justification for not posting a repudiation to a post here that has anti-Semitic statements which is that the post in in the archives.
> But the post here was also in the archives.
> I would like for you to post any difference between the two posts as that you did post some sort of repudiation to the one and you are now saying that you are justified to not post a repudiation to the other because it is in the archives where the other post was in the archives. If you could post your rationale, if any, for the posting of a repudiation to the one and not the other, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.There, I wanted to repudiate my earlier post, to clarify the guidelines. Here, I haven't posted anything I feel should be corrected.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2014, at 9:24:23
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 21, 2014, at 3:01:58
> > > I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived.
> >
> > The grammatical structure of your statement could lead a subset of readers to think that you are reneging on the terms and conditions that we agreed on for this discussion on the basis that you are saying that you have a justification for not posting a repudiation to a post here that has anti-Semitic statements which is that the post in in the archives.
> > But the post here was also in the archives.
> > I would like for you to post any difference between the two posts as that you did post some sort of repudiation to the one and you are now saying that you are justified to not post a repudiation to the other because it is in the archives where the other post was in the archives. If you could post your rationale, if any, for the posting of a repudiation to the one and not the other, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
>
> There, I wanted to repudiate my earlier post, to clarify the guidelines. Here, I haven't posted anything I feel should be corrected.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...Here I haven't posted anything I feel should be corrected...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean as to why a post being archived that you say that you have not posted anything that you feel should be corrected.
In order to understand this I am asking that we examine the following two posts where you posted a repudiation {to what the post could purport as being anti-Semitic in that what is posted could be read by a subset of readers as putting down Jews.}
Lou Pilder
Here are the two posts. I need to know what the difference is in these two from the post that you say you will not post a repudiation to because it has been archived, for both of these are in the archives and there was discussion between us on the admin board concerning the statements in question and you posted,[...it would be more civil to say..] which is a repudiation of what the statement in question says as that by you saying it would be more civil, the original statement in question could not be in accordance with your rules here as being below the standard of acceptance to be conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive.
[faith, 1055722 ]
[faith, 1056834 ]
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2014, at 10:37:36
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-ekspoezph » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2014, at 9:24:23
> > > > I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived.
> > >
> > > The grammatical structure of your statement could lead a subset of readers to think that you are reneging on the terms and conditions that we agreed on for this discussion on the basis that you are saying that you have a justification for not posting a repudiation to a post here that has anti-Semitic statements which is that the post in in the archives.
> > > But the post here was also in the archives.
> > > I would like for you to post any difference between the two posts as that you did post some sort of repudiation to the one and you are now saying that you are justified to not post a repudiation to the other because it is in the archives where the other post was in the archives. If you could post your rationale, if any, for the posting of a repudiation to the one and not the other, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> >
> > There, I wanted to repudiate my earlier post, to clarify the guidelines. Here, I haven't posted anything I feel should be corrected.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...Here I haven't posted anything I feel should be corrected...].
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean as to why a post being archived that you say that you have not posted anything that you feel should be corrected.
> In order to understand this I am asking that we examine the following two posts where you posted a repudiation {to what the post could purport as being anti-Semitic in that what is posted could be read by a subset of readers as putting down Jews.}
> Lou Pilder
> Here are the two posts. I need to know what the difference is in these two from the post that you say you will not post a repudiation to because it has been archived, for both of these are in the archives and there was discussion between us on the admin board concerning the statements in question and you posted,[...it would be more civil to say..] which is a repudiation of what the statement in question says as that by you saying it would be more civil, the original statement in question could not be in accordance with your rules here as being below the standard of acceptance to be conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive.
> [faith, 1055722 ]
> [faith, 1056834 ]Mr. Hsiung,
You wrote, [...There, I wanted to repudiate my earlier post, to clarify guidelines...]
Now in our discussion about this post that you say you will not post something now, you wrote,[...but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39...].
That could be seen IMHO by a subset of readers as that you were giving a {guideline} that gave immunity to the statements that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, on the basis that verse 39 is highlighted. But that does not annul the fact that your rule is to not post links with anti-Semitic statements, period, so that there is not an exception to your rule.I see this as being about guidelines and about your earlier post so I do not see any difference at all and I would like for you to point out what I am missing, if I am missing anything about this here.
So what I am asking is that you post in the thread where the post appears so that readers could know that the antismitic statements are not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and are not supportive and are not in accordance with several of your rules, such as to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths, and that anti-Semitic statements are not supportive even if one is quoting someone else in a link. The statements that put down Jews in the post in question now can be seen unrepudiated by readers that IMHO could induce a mind-se in a subset of readers, that anti-Semitic statements are conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of your community here and are supportive and will be good for this community as a whole by the nature that you say that unsanctioned posts have statements in them that are not against your rules. This could IMHHHO create a community where the leader could be thought to be sponsoring hatred toward the Jews.
Never again.
Lou PIlder
[admin,1060775 ]
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 26, 2014, at 10:42:55
In reply to Lou's reply- ehygenz » fayeroe, posted by Lou Pilder on February 6, 2014, at 8:49:20
> > Lou, I've been lurking around for the past 3-4 months. I will surf through here about every 3 weeks.
> > I would like to express my feelings about your position here and your "issues".
> > Lou, I've never seen anyone write a post that would be against your heritage and religion.
> > I came here in 2002. In that length of time, I've never seen you post one supportive post to anyone here. Perhaps I've missed it but I don't think so.
> > You and I emailed for a long time about 5 years ago. I was pleased to read your emails as you wrote in a normal manner and never mentioned your feelings of not being accepted here.I even tried to get you to support others and you were quite rational and appropriate in your emails.
> > I'd like to give you some advice and hopefully some insight in what you are doing now and doing it well. I want you to stop beating a dead horse about being discriminated against. Lou, I'm just enough Choctaw indian that I am occasionally discriminated against. I am subjected to it especially if I am with other indians who are darker than I am. White people always want to know what I'm doing travelling with "injuns". I don't take it personally. I don't beleive that you are truly as invested in the 'discrimination' against you as you put in your posts. I believe that it keeps you front and center and you like that very, very much.
> > Lou, the site needs you as a positive influence. I believe that you could be an very effective leader if you could see a way to stop posting about being jewish and take the time to offer support to other posters. Posters certainly have written some very nice and caring messages to you. I hope you can see a way to do a complete turnaround and be a help to the site so it can continue to go on and perhaps attract new posters.
> > I have one more issue that I do want to address. Lou, I don't believe it is fair to the posters here for you to rail against the meds that people need and take. NO ONE criticizes anyone else's choice of meds and I would like to see you completely quit it. I don't think that it makes you look like an expert. I think it has other effects upon posters and especially new posters.
> > I hope you can find it in your heart to change your approach to the regular posters. Some are quite nice to you and certainly others show a tolerance that not a lot of people could do. I hope you are thankful for those posters.
> > There are lots of people in pain in this world and I believe that you could revitalize the site and I think you could completely turn things around by being invested in others and offering an helping hand. Sincerely, Fayeroe (Pat)
>
> Pat,
> You wrote,[...I've never seen a post that would be against your heritage and religion...].
> Would this post be that I wrote a response to here?
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20131217/msgs/1060234.html
fayeroe,
Here is another post that could be seen by a subset of readers as putting down Jews, which constitutes anrtisemitic content here being seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole by the nature that Mr Hsiung states that unsanctioned posts have content that is not against his rules, and then the statements could be considered to be supportive because he also states that being supportive takes precedence.
In this post, the author offers a link at the end of the post to John 5. The rule here by Mr Hsiung is to not post a link that has anti-Semitic content, period. That means that there are not exceptions. Yet today, the post stands unrepudiated so that a subset of readers could think that Mr Hsiung and all of the deputies of record then are validating what the statements could purport. That type of ratification that a subset of reads could think, could IMHO cause, let's say, a young Jewish person that came here in depression to go further into depression and kill themselves by the nature that they could feel humiliation and ridicule when they read the post, as being Jew. For verse #23 puts down not only Jews , but all other faiths that reject the honoring of the son, but do honor the Father.
Lou
Here is the link to the post in question:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/656322.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 28, 2014, at 2:58:52
In reply to Lou's rply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-psteytspon, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2014, at 10:37:36
> > Yes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
> That could be seen IMHO by a subset of readers as that you were giving a {guideline} that gave immunity to the statements that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, on the basis that verse 39 is highlighted. But that does not annul the fact that your rule is to not post links with anti-Semitic statements, period, so that there is not an exception to your rule.
True, it could be seen that way by a subset of readers, and that's what my rule is, and there isn't any exception in the FAQ. Another issue with other sites is that content there can change without notice.
How about if we move on?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2014, at 10:30:36
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 28, 2014, at 2:58:52
> > > Yes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
>
> > That could be seen IMHO by a subset of readers as that you were giving a {guideline} that gave immunity to the statements that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, on the basis that verse 39 is highlighted. But that does not annul the fact that your rule is to not post links with anti-Semitic statements, period, so that there is not an exception to your rule.
>
> True, it could be seen that way by a subset of readers, and that's what my rule is, and there isn't any exception in the FAQ. Another issue with other sites is that content there can change without notice.
>
> How about if we move on?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...that's what my rule is...(not to post links with anti-Semitic statements , period)...]
Yet today, you ask, [...How about if we move on?...].
Moving on could mean that we leave the issue here of that the anti-Semitic statements in the post are allowed to stand by you, un repudiated by you, allowed to be seen as being good for this community as a whole by you, allowed to be seen as supportive by you, allowed to be seen as that the statements that put down Jews in the post are conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community by you. Allowed to be seen to stand by you even though your rules say that anti-Semitic statements are not in accordance with the rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths by you.
By you allowing the anti-Semitic statements to be seen by you in this manner, Jews could be depicted here by you allowing the statements to be seen as not against your rules, by a subset of readers as being allowed to be insulted and humiliated and ridiculed. This could induce the thinking in a subset of readers to inflict harm to Jews here and outside of this forum, for they could think that anti-Semitism is supportive and will be good for their community as a whole as it is in your community since you state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 28, 2014, at 19:40:47
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-gudphoar » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2014, at 10:30:36
> Moving on could mean that we leave the issue here of that the anti-Semitic statements in the post are allowed to stand by you, un repudiated by you, allowed to be seen as being good for this community as a whole by you, allowed to be seen as supportive by you, allowed to be seen as that the statements that put down Jews in the post are conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community by you. Allowed to be seen to stand by you even though your rules say that anti-Semitic statements are not in accordance with the rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths by you.
> By you allowing the anti-Semitic statements to be seen by you in this manner, Jews could be depicted here by you allowing the statements to be seen as not against your rules, by a subset of readers as being allowed to be insulted and humiliated and ridiculed. This could induce the thinking in a subset of readers to inflict harm to Jews here and outside of this forum, for they could think that anti-Semitism is supportive and will be good for their community as a whole as it is in your community since you state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole.Yes, moving on could mean that for a subset of readers. My guess is the probability of that is low. How about if we move on?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2014, at 22:05:08
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 28, 2014, at 19:40:47
> > Moving on could mean that we leave the issue here of that the anti-Semitic statements in the post are allowed to stand by you, un repudiated by you, allowed to be seen as being good for this community as a whole by you, allowed to be seen as supportive by you, allowed to be seen as that the statements that put down Jews in the post are conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community by you. Allowed to be seen to stand by you even though your rules say that anti-Semitic statements are not in accordance with the rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths by you.
> > By you allowing the anti-Semitic statements to be seen by you in this manner, Jews could be depicted here by you allowing the statements to be seen as not against your rules, by a subset of readers as being allowed to be insulted and humiliated and ridiculed. This could induce the thinking in a subset of readers to inflict harm to Jews here and outside of this forum, for they could think that anti-Semitism is supportive and will be good for their community as a whole as it is in your community since you state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole.
>
> Yes, moving on could mean that for a subset of readers. My guess is the probability of that is low. How about if we move on?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote that you are guessing that the probability of what could happen by you allowing the anti-Semitism in the post to stand un repudiated by you, could be "low".
The chances of something happening as a result by the nature of readers seeing that you are allowing antisemitic statements to be seen as supportive and civil, can not be ruled out according to what you wrote here as that the chances are "low". But even with low probability of something happening as a result of antisemitism posted un repudiated by you here is "low", that does not justify allowing anti-Semitism to be seen as supportive here by the nature that you state that if something is not sanctioned, it is not against your rules. This is because you have stated that one match could start a forest fire so that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down or accuse another, and the probability of if something could happen as being low, is not in your rules to allow statements that could put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements. This is further stated by you that it is your thinking that if something is not supportive, that it should not be posted, for being supportive takes precedence.
But it is much more than that. You also state that even a small statement can lead one to feel put down or accused and that posters are to be civil at all times.
You say that you used guessing to write that the chances are small. This could mean to a subset of readers that you do not really know. But if you agree that a subset of readers could see the anti-Semitism unsanctioned by you and your deputies of record, that they could think that you are validating the hatred toward the Jews that the anti-Semitic statements could foster, then I say to you that you do know that at least there could be some readers to think that you are ratifying the insults to the Jews, and I do not think that those readers have to guess about that. For here is a reason why.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101201/msgs/973909.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 1, 2014, at 22:01:16
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-rvregyp » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2014, at 22:05:08
> > > Moving on could mean that we leave the issue here of that the anti-Semitic statements in the post are allowed to stand by you, un repudiated by you, allowed to be seen as being good for this community as a whole by you, allowed to be seen as supportive by you, allowed to be seen as that the statements that put down Jews in the post are conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community by you. Allowed to be seen to stand by you even though your rules say that anti-Semitic statements are not in accordance with the rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths by you.
> > > By you allowing the anti-Semitic statements to be seen by you in this manner, Jews could be depicted here by you allowing the statements to be seen as not against your rules, by a subset of readers as being allowed to be insulted and humiliated and ridiculed. This could induce the thinking in a subset of readers to inflict harm to Jews here and outside of this forum, for they could think that anti-Semitism is supportive and will be good for their community as a whole as it is in your community since you state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole.
> >
> > Yes, moving on could mean that for a subset of readers. My guess is the probability of that is low. How about if we move on?
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote that you are guessing that the probability of what could happen by you allowing the anti-Semitism in the post to stand un repudiated by you, could be "low".
> The chances of something happening as a result by the nature of readers seeing that you are allowing antisemitic statements to be seen as supportive and civil, can not be ruled out according to what you wrote here as that the chances are "low". But even with low probability of something happening as a result of antisemitism posted un repudiated by you here is "low", that does not justify allowing anti-Semitism to be seen as supportive here by the nature that you state that if something is not sanctioned, it is not against your rules. This is because you have stated that one match could start a forest fire so that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down or accuse another, and the probability of if something could happen as being low, is not in your rules to allow statements that could put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements. This is further stated by you that it is your thinking that if something is not supportive, that it should not be posted, for being supportive takes precedence.
> But it is much more than that. You also state that even a small statement can lead one to feel put down or accused and that posters are to be civil at all times.
> You say that you used guessing to write that the chances are small. This could mean to a subset of readers that you do not really know. But if you agree that a subset of readers could see the anti-Semitism unsanctioned by you and your deputies of record, that they could think that you are validating the hatred toward the Jews that the anti-Semitic statements could foster, then I say to you that you do know that at least there could be some readers to think that you are ratifying the insults to the Jews, and I do not think that those readers have to guess about that. For here is a reason why.
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101201/msgs/973909.htmlMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...How about if we move on...].
There are many posts already in this thread that you could choose from and if you would like another, here is one.
In this post, in the second line it reads,[..No non-Christian can...].
The statement insults not only Judaism, but Islam as well, and all other religions that are not Christian that can enter heaven according to their religion, by not being a Christian.
But it is much more than that. For your rules state that one is not to post what could be disrespectful to another religion. Yet today, this post stands un repudiated by you and your deputies of record then, and there could be a subset of readers that think that you and your deputies of record then, are validating the insult to Judaism and Islam and the other religions that are not Christian that have in their belief that they can go to heaven as not being a Christian.
I am asking you to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears with something like:
[...please respect the faiths of others that are not Christian that include those people as that they have in their belief that they can go to heaven without being a Christian...]
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/612282.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 3, 2014, at 14:47:21
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-nhonon, posted by Lou Pilder on March 1, 2014, at 22:01:16
> > No non-Christian will enter heaven.
> The statement insults not only Judaism, but Islam as well, and all other religions that are not Christian that can enter heaven according to their religion, by not being a Christian.
> But it is much more than that. For your rules state that one is not to post what could be disrespectful to another religion. Yet today, this post stands un repudiated by youI did remind her of the civility guidelines later in that thread:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/613321.html
Next?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 3, 2014, at 20:05:38
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 3, 2014, at 14:47:21
> > > No non-Christian will enter heaven.
>
> > The statement insults not only Judaism, but Islam as well, and all other religions that are not Christian that can enter heaven according to their religion, by not being a Christian.
> > But it is much more than that. For your rules state that one is not to post what could be disrespectful to another religion. Yet today, this post stands un repudiated by you
>
> I did remind her of the civility guidelines later in that thread:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/613321.html
>
> Next?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I did remind her of the civility guidelines later in that thread...].
Now I don't claim to be an "A" student, but I do not see what you wrote is relevant to that the statement in question could cause a subset of readers to feel humiliation and ridicule and shame when they read that their religion will not allow them into heaven as not being a Christian and that the statement is not sanctioned by you and your deputies of record then which could lead them to think that you are validating the insult toward Jews and Islamic people and all other religions that are not Christian that in their faith they can go to heaven without being a Christian. They could also think that you are leaving the insult unsanctioned so that it will be good for this community as a whole and that they could think that you are allowing a forest fire of hate to spread because you say that one match could start a forest fire.
I do not see that your reply annuls the fact that there is disrespect to Jews, Islamic people and others in that the statement precludes non-Christians from entering heaven and you are allowing it to stand un repudiated. Your statement, if it is a rationale by you to leave the insult to stand, does not address the insult but addresses a word in another post that is not allowed by you. The word is in a rule of yours to not post what could be language that could offend others as a vulgar word. That rule is disjoint from the rule of yours to not post what could be disrespectful to another's faith. And worse, you say that you reminded her of the civility guidelines. What you reminded her about was only one guideline, the guideline concerning vulgar words, for you to allow to stand un repudiated which is not what is in question in the statement that I am objecting to .
Your rule is to not post anything that is not supportive, for being supportive takes precedence. As long as you allow the statement in question to be un repudiated by you, readers could think that it is supportive here to insult other faiths that are not Christian that do have in their belief that they can enter heaven without being a Christian. This could lead a subset of readers to feel more depressed when they come here and go into deeper depression, for they could get feelings of inferiority by thinking that you and your deputies of record then are ratifying the insult to their God that can lead them to The Promised Land, to heaven. You will allow people to say that non-Christians can't, and that could lead a subset of readers to think that you as the community leader are validating a statement that could mean that Jews, could be precluded from entering heaven and it will be good for this community as a whole.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 1:45:12
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-valhey » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 3, 2014, at 20:05:38
> Now I don't claim to be an "A" student
Why not? I think you're one of the best students here. :-)
> but I do not see what you wrote is relevant to that the statement in question could cause a subset of readers to feel humiliation and ridicule and shame when they read that their religion will not allow them into heaven as not being a Christian and that the statement is not sanctioned by you and your deputies of record then which could lead them to think that you are validating the insult toward Jews and Islamic people and all other religions that are not Christian
It's indirectly relevant. IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2014, at 7:58:15
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 1:45:12
> > Now I don't claim to be an "A" student
>
> Why not? I think you're one of the best students here. :-)
>
> > but I do not see what you wrote is relevant to that the statement in question could cause a subset of readers to feel humiliation and ridicule and shame when they read that their religion will not allow them into heaven as not being a Christian and that the statement is not sanctioned by you and your deputies of record then which could lead them to think that you are validating the insult toward Jews and Islamic people and all other religions that are not Christian
>
> It's indirectly relevant. IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...It's indirectly relevant...I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements...].
I do not see any such thing. The rule here is that what {could} be seen. And it could be seen that since the statement in question is not repudiated by you, that a subset of readers could think that you think that it is not against your rules. Now I do not know if there could be another subset of readers to agree with you. I think that they would have to {jump to a conclusion} to arrive at that, for you do say that you didn't {necessarily} validate the anti-Semitic statement as to what it could purport, but then, that means that you could be validating the hatred that the statement could purport toward Jews and Islamic people and all the other people that have in their religion a way to heaven that are not Christian.
It is the {could} that overrules the {will} in your TOS here. And if it {could}, then one match {could} start a forest fire regardless if the fire starter curses at the trees. For if there is a person cursing at the trees, that does not mean that they will start a fire. But if there is a person saying that Jews can not enter heaven because they are not Christians, and the leader of the community will not repudiate the claim, that could stoke the furnace of hatred toward Jews as the historical record shows.
Never again
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 22:47:31
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-jmptukun » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2014, at 7:58:15
> > IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
>
> I do not see any such thing. The rule here is that what {could} be seen. And it could be seen that since the statement in question is not repudiated by you, that a subset of readers could think that you think that it is not against your rules. Now I do not know if there could be another subset of readers to agree with you.I do believe another subset of readers could agree with me.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2014, at 8:14:34
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 22:47:31
> > > IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
> >
> > I do not see any such thing. The rule here is that what {could} be seen. And it could be seen that since the statement in question is not repudiated by you, that a subset of readers could think that you think that it is not against your rules. Now I do not know if there could be another subset of readers to agree with you.
>
> I do believe another subset of readers could agree with me.
>
> BobMr, Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I do believe another subset of readers could agree with me...].
That may be, but that does not annul the fact that there could also be a subset of readers that see that you have not posted a repudiation to what could lead Jews and Islamic people and all other people that have in their faith that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian to feel put down when they read the statement. For they could know of your rule that if a post is not sanctioned, then the statements in the post are not against your rules according to you. This could lead those readers to think that you and your deputies of record the are validating what the statement could purport.
That, then, could foster hatred toward the Jews and the others that have a faith that could allow them to enter heaven as not being a Christian. This is also because there could be a subset of readers that see that you did sanction, according to your rules, the use of a vulgar word. But you have allowed to stand what could insult Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. Your policy is that anything that is not supportive is to not be posted, for being supportive takes precedence. So a subset of readers could think that you and your deputies of record are ratifying what puts down Jews by not sanctioning the statement in question, which is anti-Semitism that could be seen by a subset of readers as being encouraged by you and your deputies of record. And does it matter that you sanctioned the statement that has a vulgar word, that by you doing that, it annuals what the insult to Judaism and Islam and the others could purport?
If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours. But even if you say that there could be a subset of readers that could go along with you, I say to you that your rule is to not to post anything that could put down those of other faiths and that unsanctioned posts have statements in them that do not break your rules. And since the post with the statements that put down Jews is unsanctioned, a subset of readers that came here in depression, looking for support, could feel humiliation, ridicule and dehumanization when they read the post in question and go deeper into depression, which could lead them to kill themselves. I do not see how if there is a subset of people that could agree with you, how that overrules your rule to not post what could lead someone to feel put down by reading a post that is disrespectful to Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. For even if there is that subset of people that agree with you, there is still the subset of people that see what is plainly visible. Your rule is to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths, and the statement is not sanctioned directly, so there could be a subset of readers that think that you and your deputies of record then are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that are not Christian that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian.
If you wanted to, you could post a link in the thread where the post appears something like:
[...Please be advised that myself and the deputies of record do not think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and it is not in accordance with our rule to not post anything that could be disrespectful to other faiths. But because the poster used a vulgar word in another post, since we sanctioned that post, that means to us, that we can leave the statement that puts down Jews and others unsanctioned so that the readers that could feel put down when they read the insult to their faith, should not feel that way because we sanctioned a statement by the poster later in the thread that used a vulgar word. We also know that we could sanction the statement in question if we wanted to, but we choose to allow it to stand. We also realize that there could be readers that do not see that by us sanctioning another post by the poster, that all other statements by that poster in other posts, are also unsupportive. We also know that one match could start a forest fire. We say that we will take the chance of the fire of hatred toward the Jews and Islamic people and the others identified in the statement in question being spread from here by the nature that there could be a subset of readers that think that we are validating what the statement in question could purport because we are leaving it unsanctioned. Be advised that I do what in my thinking will be good for this community as a whole. So I am going to leave the statement in question un repudiated by me even though there could be those that feel shamed, or ridiculed or defamed because they are a Jew or Islamic or belong to a faith that could allow them to enter heaven by not being a Christian.
Dr. Bob...]Lou PIlder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 11, 2014, at 10:48:36
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-quntmleep » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2014, at 8:14:34
> If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2014, at 19:53:10
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 11, 2014, at 10:48:36
> > If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
>
> I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole. In leaving the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by you, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that you sanctioned the statement in another post that used a vulgar word that is against your rules as what I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or false:
A. The statement could foster anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings as well as being insulting to other faiths that are non-Christian.
B. There are readers that could think that since you state that what is not sanctioned is not against your rules, that the anti-Semitism is being ratified by you, so that those readers could think that you are advancing anti-Semitism by leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you.
C. It is good for this community as a whole for you, Mr. Hsiung, to leave the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, un repudiated by you even though there could be readers that feel put down, humiliated, ridiculed, insulted and be cast into a deeper depression when they read it as being un repudiated by you.
Fill in:
D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lou Pilder
insult to Judaism
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2014, at 18:11:27
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-duhgud » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2014, at 19:53:10
> > > If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
> >
> > I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole. In leaving the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by you, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that you sanctioned the statement in another post that used a vulgar word that is against your rules as what I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> True or false:
> A. The statement could foster anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings as well as being insulting to other faiths that are non-Christian.
> B. There are readers that could think that since you state that what is not sanctioned is not against your rules, that the anti-Semitism is being ratified by you, so that those readers could think that you are advancing anti-Semitism by leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you.
> C. It is good for this community as a whole for you, Mr. Hsiung, to leave the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, un repudiated by you even though there could be readers that feel put down, humiliated, ridiculed, insulted and be cast into a deeper depression when they read it as being un repudiated by you.
> Fill in:
> D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Lou Pilder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> insult to JudaismFriends,
I have examined more closely the situation here with Mr. Hsiung saying that he sanctioned the statement {indirectly}. My concern is if there is really any such thing as an indirect sanction. Now I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster. And even more, if intelligence is what leads those to go along with Mr. Hsiung, what about all the rest of the readers that are just plain dumb? do not they also count as people in the {whole} that Mr. Hsiung says that he does what will be good for the whole?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2014, at 18:33:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- eyetinklushdbee » Lou Pilder, posted by fayeroe on October 3, 2013, at 1:59:27
> Lou, I've been lurking around for the past 3-4 months. I will surf through here about every 3 weeks.
> I would like to express my feelings about your position here and your "issues".
> Lou, I've never seen anyone write a post that would be against your heritage and religion.
> I came here in 2002. In that length of time, I've never seen you post one supportive post to anyone here. Perhaps I've missed it but I don't think so.
> You and I emailed for a long time about 5 years ago. I was pleased to read your emails as you wrote in a normal manner and never mentioned your feelings of not being accepted here.I even tried to get you to support others and you were quite rational and appropriate in your emails.
> I'd like to give you some advice and hopefully some insight in what you are doing now and doing it well. I want you to stop beating a dead horse about being discriminated against. Lou, I'm just enough Choctaw indian that I am occasionally discriminated against. I am subjected to it especially if I am with other indians who are darker than I am. White people always want to know what I'm doing travelling with "injuns". I don't take it personally. I don't beleive that you are truly as invested in the 'discrimination' against you as you put in your posts. I believe that it keeps you front and center and you like that very, very much.
> Lou, the site needs you as a positive influence. I believe that you could be an very effective leader if you could see a way to stop posting about being jewish and take the time to offer support to other posters. Posters certainly have written some very nice and caring messages to you. I hope you can see a way to do a complete turnaround and be a help to the site so it can continue to go on and perhaps attract new posters.
> I have one more issue that I do want to address. Lou, I don't believe it is fair to the posters here for you to rail against the meds that people need and take. NO ONE criticizes anyone else's choice of meds and I would like to see you completely quit it. I don't think that it makes you look like an expert. I think it has other effects upon posters and especially new posters.
> I hope you can find it in your heart to change your approach to the regular posters. Some are quite nice to you and certainly others show a tolerance that not a lot of people could do. I hope you are thankful for those posters.
> There are lots of people in pain in this world and I believe that you could revitalize the site and I think you could completely turn things around by being invested in others and offering an helping hand. Sincerely, Fayeroe (Pat)fayeroe,
You wrote,[...never seen..a post.. against your heritage and religion...].
To identify what a post is that has a statement that is against the Jewish heritage and religion, we could use several methods to make that determination. Mr. Hsiung uses ,[...do not post anything that could lead one to feel put down or accused..] as one way of determining if a statement is not in accordance with his rules. He then states that anything that could put down another's faith is also against is rules.
Now if something written here insults another's faith, then that could be {against} that faith and against the {heritage} of those that belong to that faith. The religion of Judaism describes how the followers of the God that they give service and worship to could lead them to heaven. The idea of {heaven} could be depicted in literary manners that may be different from the religions of others, but the concept can include being resurrected from the dead as in the scriptures that the Jews use.
Now for a post here to be allowed to stand un repudiated (directly) that states as a subset of readers could think that Jews can not enter heaven, insults the heritage and religion of Judaism, for the statement is false and could arouse anti-Semitic feelings. The tragic consequences that could happen here to a subset of readers that see that post as not being directly sanctioned by Mr. Hsiung or his deputies could lead a subset of readers to feel humiliation and scorn and ridicule and commit suicide because they could know that Mr. Hsiung states that posts that are not sanctioned have in them statements that are not against his rules.
Now what is in question here that I would like for you to post from your perspective, is the last posts in this thread concerning a post. The post has an insult to Judaism and the other faiths that are not Christian that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian and Mr Hsiung states that he sanctioned the post (indirectly}. His rationale is that there is a post by the poster many days after the post in question where Mr. Hsiung sanctioned the post for having a vulgar word in it and so indirectly sanctions the post that has the insult to Judaism and Islam and the other faiths that can be seen. I was wondering what your thought could be on this?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 9:34:18
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-duhgud » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2014, at 19:53:10
> > > If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
> >
> > I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole. In leaving the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by you, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that you sanctioned the statement in another post that used a vulgar word that is against your rules as what I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> True or false:
> A. The statement could foster anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings as well as being insulting to other faiths that are non-Christian.
> B. There are readers that could think that since you state that what is not sanctioned is not against your rules, that the anti-Semitism is being ratified by you, so that those readers could think that you are advancing anti-Semitism by leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you.
> C. It is good for this community as a whole for you, Mr. Hsiung, to leave the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, un repudiated by you even though there could be readers that feel put down, humiliated, ridiculed, insulted and be cast into a deeper depression when they read it as being un repudiated by you.
> Fill in:
> D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Lou Pilder
>
>
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> insult to JudaismMr. Hsiung,
The statement that you sanctioned for the vulgar word appears in the same post as the insult to Judaism, Islam and all the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. I apologize for writing that it was in another post by that poster. But does it matter? I say not. In fact, there could be a subset of readers that could think that it was of a greater degree of concern to you to sanction a word than to sanction the insult to Judaism, Islam and the other faiths involved in the statement in question. This could also lead those to think that you could be using your sanctioning of the word as a pretext to allow the hatred toward the Jews and others to stand as being not against your rules and supportive and will be good for this community as a whole on the basis that those readers could know of your policy that if something is not sanctioned, then it is not against your rules.
But it is much more than that. For the statement in question could be felt as an insult to those in those religions that do have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. That includes a great many of readers verses those that could feel offended by the poster using a word that a dictionary says is vulgar. And when you examine the population of readers, I think it could be more likely that Jews, Islamic people and the others depicted in the statement in question could feel insulted than the number of readers that could feel offended by seeing the sanctioned word. This could lead to having a subset of readers feel humiliation, ridicule and dehumanized and fall down into a vortex of depression and commit suicide because there are readers that come here via a search that are in depression and those readers could think that you are validating the insult to their faith because the statement is not sanctioned by you or any of your deputies.
So I think that it could be worse for a subset of readers to see that you sanctioned the word in question , but not the insult to the faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being Christian, that are in the same post. This is because they could see that your policy and rules state that you do not wait to sanction something because one match could start a forest fire and that you also state for posters to be civil at all times. Those readers could have taken you at your word for that, and not know of anything that they think could be a strategy by you to allow you to circumvent your own rules to allow what insults Judaism, Islam and the other faiths to be seen as unsanctioned which could mean to them that what is in question is not against your rules. They could also think that you now want to keep what could arouse anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings and anti-other feelings going on the board as that it will be good for this community as a whole for you to allow the statement to continually stand un repudiated by you. I am asking that you post something right there in the thread that negates any thinking that anti-Semitism is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community. A way could be to post something like this attached to that post there:
[...Statements that a subset of readers could think is a claim that only people of their religion can enter heaven are statements that are not in accordance with my rules here as to not post what could be disrespectful to another's faith.
Dr. Bob...]
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 14:29:49
In reply to Lou's clarification to readers-justaliddlebit, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2014, at 18:11:27
> D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
> I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 19:09:34
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 14:29:49
> > D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
>
> The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
>
> > I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
>
> I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
>
> BobFriends,
You can see one of the arguments that Mr. Hsiung presents here to leave the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by him. What he is using is called an analogy.
An analogy can be true or false. I would like for readers to follow what I will present here in relation for you to determine on your own if the analogy put forth here by Mr. Hsiung is a false analogy or not.
The stakes are high. For if the analogy is true, then anti-Semitic statements could at Mr. Hsiung's will, be allowed to be immune from his own rules to not post what is not supportive because being supportive takes precedence. And by leaving the insult to Judaism un sanctioned, a subset of readers could think that the statement is not against Mr. Hsiung's rules and is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community. That could arouse antisemitic feelings and stoke the furnace of hate toward the Jews and could lead to the murder of Jews and also lead a subset of readers to feel humiliation, ridicule and scorn and could be dragged down onto a vortex of despair which could lead one coming here in depression looking for a way out, to kill themselves.
Now let's look at the literary aspect of what an analogy is. The use of an analogy is reasoning from parallel cases comparing different things in order to persuade readers to be led to some point of similarity. A false analogy is when the two things being compared are not similar enough to warrant the comparison and then can be seen as an intentional attempt to persuade readers to what misleads them. The psychology of the false analogy is that the false analogy attempts to accept that if two things are similar in some respect, they are similar in some other respects.
An analogy works like this:
A and B are shown to be similar
A has property P
so also B must have that property
In a false analogy, A&B are different in a way which affects whether they both have property P
In a false analogy, there could be also false facts presented in the reasoning that could influence the uninformed.
Now let us look at what is 'A" and what is "B" and what is "P".
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 19:34:14
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-phalz?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 19:09:34
> > > D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
> >
> > The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
> >
> > > I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
> >
> > I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Friends,
> You can see one of the arguments that Mr. Hsiung presents here to leave the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by him. What he is using is called an analogy.
> An analogy can be true or false. I would like for readers to follow what I will present here in relation for you to determine on your own if the analogy put forth here by Mr. Hsiung is a false analogy or not.
> The stakes are high. For if the analogy is true, then anti-Semitic statements could at Mr. Hsiung's will, be allowed to be immune from his own rules to not post what is not supportive because being supportive takes precedence. And by leaving the insult to Judaism un sanctioned, a subset of readers could think that the statement is not against Mr. Hsiung's rules and is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community. That could arouse antisemitic feelings and stoke the furnace of hate toward the Jews and could lead to the murder of Jews and also lead a subset of readers to feel humiliation, ridicule and scorn and could be dragged down onto a vortex of despair which could lead one coming here in depression looking for a way out, to kill themselves.
> Now let's look at the literary aspect of what an analogy is. The use of an analogy is reasoning from parallel cases comparing different things in order to persuade readers to be led to some point of similarity. A false analogy is when the two things being compared are not similar enough to warrant the comparison and then can be seen as an intentional attempt to persuade readers to what misleads them. The psychology of the false analogy is that the false analogy attempts to accept that if two things are similar in some respect, they are similar in some other respects.
> An analogy works like this:
> A and B are shown to be similar
> A has property P
> so also B must have that property
> In a false analogy, A&B are different in a way which affects whether they both have property P
> In a false analogy, there could be also false facts presented in the reasoning that could influence the uninformed.
> Now let us look at what is 'A" and what is "B" and what is "P".
> Lou
>
Friends,
Now let us designate "A" as being the civility code by Mr. Hsiung and
"B" the tax code. Both are codes so there is similarity. In an analogy, the presenter of such attempts to make you believe that if A and B are similar in some respect, they will be similar in "P" also. The issue is that there is a statement allowed here to stand that puts down Jews. The tax code does not have a statement that puts down Jews in it.
There could also be "P" in that if one accepts the tax code, then the Hsiung code could also be accepted even if one dislikes part of it.
more to come...
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 15, 2014, at 9:00:43
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- eyetinklushdbee » Lou Pilder, posted by fayeroe on October 3, 2013, at 1:59:27
> Lou, I've been lurking around for the past 3-4 months. I will surf through here about every 3 weeks.
> I would like to express my feelings about your position here and your "issues".
> Lou, I've never seen anyone write a post that would be against your heritage and religion.
> I came here in 2002. In that length of time, I've never seen you post one supportive post to anyone here. Perhaps I've missed it but I don't think so.
> You and I emailed for a long time about 5 years ago. I was pleased to read your emails as you wrote in a normal manner and never mentioned your feelings of not being accepted here.I even tried to get you to support others and you were quite rational and appropriate in your emails.
> I'd like to give you some advice and hopefully some insight in what you are doing now and doing it well. I want you to stop beating a dead horse about being discriminated against. Lou, I'm just enough Choctaw indian that I am occasionally discriminated against. I am subjected to it especially if I am with other indians who are darker than I am. White people always want to know what I'm doing travelling with "injuns". I don't take it personally. I don't beleive that you are truly as invested in the 'discrimination' against you as you put in your posts. I believe that it keeps you front and center and you like that very, very much.
> Lou, the site needs you as a positive influence. I believe that you could be an very effective leader if you could see a way to stop posting about being jewish and take the time to offer support to other posters. Posters certainly have written some very nice and caring messages to you. I hope you can see a way to do a complete turnaround and be a help to the site so it can continue to go on and perhaps attract new posters.
> I have one more issue that I do want to address. Lou, I don't believe it is fair to the posters here for you to rail against the meds that people need and take. NO ONE criticizes anyone else's choice of meds and I would like to see you completely quit it. I don't think that it makes you look like an expert. I think it has other effects upon posters and especially new posters.
> I hope you can find it in your heart to change your approach to the regular posters. Some are quite nice to you and certainly others show a tolerance that not a lot of people could do. I hope you are thankful for those posters.
> There are lots of people in pain in this world and I believe that you could revitalize the site and I think you could completely turn things around by being invested in others and offering an helping hand. Sincerely, Fayeroe (Pat)Pat, you wrote,[... the discrimination against you...].
Discrimination could pump poison in reader's minds here. The poison of hate could drag a subset of readers into a vortex of depression downward into a pit of despair to kill themselves. The statements here that I am taking one post at a time that if a repudiation by Mr. Hsiung is posted to those that could foster anti-Semitism, could stop any thinking that this site is a promoter of hatred toward the Jews and others. As long as the posts that you see here are allowed to be seen as supportive and not against Mr. Hsiung's own rules, then there could be a subset of readers to think that anti-Semitism is supportive and not only that, but anti-Semitism will be good for this community as a whole, for that is what is stated by Mr. Hsiung as in what he does in his thinking here.
A way that hatred toward the Jews can be fostered in a community is to allow the depiction of Jews as being in an inferior religion, or to depict Judaism as inferior to Christianity in that a depiction of Christianity is superior to Judaism which insults Judaism. The rule here is to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths or to not post anything that is disrespectful to another's faith. If that rule is not enforced to allow Judaism to be ridiculed or insulted, while the foundation of Judaism as revealed to me is not allowed to be posted, then discrimination could happen here. And discrimination is an abuse of power.
Lou
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