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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 36 to 60 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:00:46
In reply to Re: Scott's response to Solstice - Hijacking Threads » SLS, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 9:57:40
I can't see where anything I post has any effect whatsoever.
My sympathy is now decidedly split. I am a wee bit angry about that.
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:03:30
In reply to I give up, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:00:46
> I can't see where anything I post has any effect whatsoever.
>
> My sympathy is now decidedly split. I am a wee bit angry about that.Dinah, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean that your posts receive no attention and deliberation.
I'm sorry that you feel ignored and perhaps hurt. Your posts carry great weight with me, and I very rarely skip over them.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:11:32
In reply to Re: I give up » Dinah, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:03:30
It's not that, Scott.
I just meant that they're not doing any good. They aren't effective. People don't agree with me. It's not that I'm hurt. I just don't see the point of expending effort and time where it has no effect. I can better husband my limited resources.
So I'll just wait for Dr. Bob to come along, and hope that he's as laid back as he has been lately. Because I think I'm more in agreement with Dr. Bob than I am with posters on this matter.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:19:59
In reply to Re: I give up » SLS, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:11:32
At least the historical Bob.
Who knows what current edition Bob thinks. :)
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:21:42
In reply to Re: I give up » SLS, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:11:32
> It's not that, Scott.
>
> I just meant that they're not doing any good. They aren't effective. People don't agree with me. It's not that I'm hurt. I just don't see the point of expending effort and time where it has no effect.Join the club.
I don't feel that you really paid much attention to my last post. I could be wrong, of course.
"Dinah, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean that your posts receive no attention and deliberation."
People didn't agree with Charles Darwin at first.
> So I'll just wait for Dr. Bob to come along, and hope that he's as laid back as he has been lately. Because I think I'm more in agreement with Dr. Bob than I am with posters on this matter.
How can you be in agreement with someone who is absent and hasn't voiced an opinion?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:22:44
In reply to Re: I give up, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:19:59
> At least the historical Bob.
>
> Who knows what current edition Bob thinks. :)Oops - a cross-post.
I agree.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:25:30
In reply to Re: I give up » Dinah, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:22:44
Sorry. I misspoke. It wasn't a cross-post.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:30:41
In reply to Re: I give up » Dinah, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:21:42
It's sometimes hard for me to disengage, Scott. And I do have very limited resources right now. If I felt I was making, or could make, a material difference on a concrete level, I wouldn't mind the time and effort.
It's not personal. It's something I'm trying to do for myself. To not get sucked into Admin again. I haven't posted on Admin in a very long time before this. I rarely even read it.
I followed this over from the Meds board.
Posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 13:24:54
In reply to Re: Scott's response to Solstice - Hijacking Threads » Solstice, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 9:30:23
> And to be clear, I don't think I have any problem seeing distinctions.
Didn't mean it to sound like I thought you had a problem making distinctions.. that's why I said no one is 'either/or' - it's just that we each tend to lean more one way than the other.
> I see any number of distinctions in matters of civility. I just may not see them the same way you do.
And a lot of the time, the distinctions you make are very helpfully enlightening for me. You are very wise.. I love that about you.. it's powerfully attractive to me. but still.. I just want to be able to seek assistance without the concern I posted being overwhelmed and drowned in a sea of implications that I'm probably killing my child.
Solstice
Posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 13:32:11
In reply to Re: I give up » Dinah, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 10:03:30
> > I can't see where anything I post has any effect whatsoever.
> >
> > My sympathy is now decidedly split. I am a wee bit angry about that.
>
> Dinah, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean that your posts receive no attention and deliberation.
>Ditto from me on this.
> I'm sorry that you feel ignored and perhaps hurt. Your posts carry great weight with me, and I very rarely skip over them.
>
Same here. Dinah - over the years, you have had a tremendous and positive impact on me. I may not respond to things in precisely the way you would have hoped, but you pretty much always impact me... for the better. Believe me, your words are not lost. maybe not translated in a Dinah replica.. but they are not lost :-)Solstice
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 16:09:50
In reply to Re: » gardenergirl, posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 0:50:34
> >
> > > I would absolutely Not be responsible for anyone's death if they failed to receive information as a result of rules that are put in place to protect my thread from being swallowed up by warnings of death and life-ruination if my child takes medications.
> >
> > I was once told something along the lines that I would be responsible for starting the next Holocaust if I didn't carry out the demands then being made of me. It's exactly that type of escalation that signals to me that further dialog with someone who would make such a statement is of no value to me. I empathize with your predicament, Solstice.
> >
> > gg
>
>
> Thanks gg.. it means a lot to me to know that you 'get it.' And.. until now, there hasn't been a need to dialogue.. and I haven't. But now, it's like if I want to get help from the community while I go through this difficult situation with my daughter's medication, I have to proactively protect the flow of information to me. It has been very discouraging for it to be so hard, when things are very difficult in my world right now.
>
> It's really a shame that behavior that is disruptive to the purpose of the forum is not being addressed by administration.
>
> SolsticeFriends,
If you are considering posting in this thread, I am requesting that you read the following post from hhere. If you could, then I thhink tthat you could have a better understnding of some of tthe issuess here and post accordingly.
Lou
To see the post in question:
A. Go to the bottom of this page to the search box
B. Type in:
[Racer, admin, 528411]
usually first.
Posted by sigismund on February 27, 2012, at 16:12:34
In reply to Lou's request--luzdhefenz, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 16:09:50
Is there a reason for not providing a direct link, Lou?
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 16:28:03
In reply to Re: Lou's request--luzdhefenz » Lou Pilder, posted by sigismund on February 27, 2012, at 16:12:34
> Is there a reason for not providing a direct link, Lou?
I believe that this is a clever work-around to avoid posting direct links to posts that are to be used when questioning their civility. Doing so is considered uncivil. Also, direct links to uncivil websites are proscribed. However, suggesting keywords for search engines is not (yet).
I could be wrong about some of this.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 16:37:13
In reply to Re: » Solstice, posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2012, at 0:17:02
>
> > I would absolutely Not be responsible for anyone's death if they failed to receive information as a result of rules that are put in place to protect my thread from being swallowed up by warnings of death and life-ruination if my child takes medications.
>
> I was once told something along the lines that I would be responsible for starting the next Holocaust if I didn't carry out the demands then being made of me. It's exactly that type of escalation that signals to me that further dialog with someone who would make such a statement is of no value to me. I empathize with your predicament, Solstice.
>
> ggFriends,
If you are considering posting in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following pos.
Lou
To see the post in question:
A. Go to the search box at the bottom of this page
B. Type in:
[gardenergirl, admin,527627]
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 16:49:29
In reply to Re: Scott's response to Solstice - Hijacking Threads » Dinah, posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 9:19:45
> > I'd hate to see a policy about hijacking threads.
> >
> > I've seen website where any deviation from concentration on the originating poster is considered a hijacking. Where originating posters jealously guard their thread like a mama bird with just one chick. Where threads aren't allowed to develop as conversations, and the site doesn't feel much like a community at all.
> >
> > I don't like it.
>
>
> There is a big difference between a thread developing and morphing into things other than the original subject, and hijacking. A thread that evolves into other things happens fairly naturally, and is participated in by the group of people involved in the discussion. The thread originator may or may not be participating as well, but their original purpose has run its course. Hijacking is all about the hijacker. That's where it is rude and uncivil. The hijacker is focused on substituting the original subject with their own agenda, which is usually in opposition to the original poster's subject. People can increase their power by just overwhelming the original poster.
>
> I don't think being assertive about not wanting a thread I initiated where I am earnestly seeking information due to a medical crisis in my family is the equivalent of a mama bird jealously guarding a thread. I just didn't want my need to be sidelined by outrageous claims that imply I am killing my daughter. A poster with the characteristics of that mama bird would need to be reigned in just like a hijacker needs to be reigned in.
>
> My therapist told me once about what she called "Sharpeners and Levelers." Fascinating way to look at group dynamics. Anyway, she said I am a 'Sharpener.' Dinah, you seem to be a 'Leveler.' It's characteristic of a 'Sharpener' to see clear distinctions between things, whereas 'Levelers' tend to be more focused on the common ground between things. People are not necessarily one or the other - they just tend to lean more toward being a 'Sharpener' or a 'Leveler.' The world functions best with both :-) One is not more important than the other - and they both keep each other in balance. You keep my sharpening in check, but I have learned to be comfortable with the value of my sharpening, and I see danger in allowing a hijacker to become dominant in threads. That's not a 'conversation'... it's someone who has taken control and has sidelined the person who started a thread to get help on a mental health board.
>
> Solstice
>
>
> Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following post.
Louu
To see this post,
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/967900.html>
Posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2012, at 16:54:34
In reply to Lou's request-Luzdhefenz-boathsydznow, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 16:49:29
Lou,
I respectfully request that you try to just say what it is that you want us to consider, rather than providing search terms and links. I've looked at the posts you linked to and gave search terms for, and I don't get it. I realize that it may be difficult for you, but please try. My brain is not up to solving puzzles, searching for deeper meanings, and/or reading others' minds.gg
Posted by sigismund on February 27, 2012, at 18:31:10
In reply to Re: I'm not sure, but... » sigismund, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 16:28:03
If I could read something uncivil by going through that labourious process it would be worth it, but to read something that is not itself uncivil but linking it is is not :)
Posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 18:32:37
In reply to Lou's request-Luzdhefenz-protek, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 16:37:13
I did what Lou suggests here, and looked at the post. But I clicked on 'show all.' So if you look at the post he wants you to look at here, be sure and go to the post that follows it. In this post from 2005, Racer is very articulate in describing the same difficulties with disruptive behavior that I've had trouble with during the last week. We're talking seven years ago. wow.
Sol
> Friends,
> If you are considering posting in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following pos.
> Lou
> To see the post in question:
> A. Go to the search box at the bottom of this page
> B. Type in:
> [gardenergirl, admin,527627]
Posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 19:13:26
In reply to Re:, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 8:13:40
> There are already rules in place, and I've described them. Admittedly a more active administrative presence, at times, would be welcome.
>
> I think once matters start to get complicated, with violations on more than one side, it's harder for Dr. Bob to find the time to deal with it. That's just my observation based on seeing him come deal with minor matters while leaving an all out board war untouched.
>
> I get it too. Or at least I did originally. After a while, the pendulum on the board starts to swing, and with it my sympathy.
>
> I think any comparison to Nazis, any suggestion that one's actions on Babble could lead to death to millions of Jews, or any assertations that any complaints about any one person are the result of that person's ethnic origin (in the absence of any evidence that this is the case) is on the face of it uncivil and accusatory and should be dealt with under existing Babble rules.
But it is not (dealt with). It is repeatedly allowed to flourish. And all I can say with respect to my experience in coming to the med board absolutely desperate with concern about my child, is that the hijacking and the content of the hijacking had me in tears as I tried to pick through the posts to find the ones that applied to the subject of my thread.
>
> But it also upsets me when people act together towards one poster. And I tend to lose any sympathy I had for the original cause when it continues too long or becomes spread over many threads. Particularly when it deals with behaviors Dr. Bob has already explicitly approved. And I don't think Dr. Bob is wrong.
I do not mean anyone harm. I didnt post my medication concern in order to disrupt anyone. I just needed help. And all the while that I was trying to get help, I was under siege. It should not be like that here.I don't think people here acted together toward one poster, as much as it was multiple people objecting to a particular behavior that at this time only one poster exhibits.. and exhibits on a frequent basis.I initially felt very alone.. like I was under siege while trying to get information about medications and bipolar that would help me navigate my daughters medical crisis. I used the notification buttons to no avail. I emailed Bob to no avail. And whats important to say here is that what helped me survive that situation were the people here.. well respected people.. who came to my aid.. who did what they could to stand with me.. which left me feeling surrounded by the warmth of friends.. which made me feel somewhat protected in the midst of what felt to me like an assault (the hijacking and its implications that I am probably killing my child or causing her life-ruination).
And I want to say that Scott is absolutely right. These things should be dealt with by Bob. But he doesnt. It requires tremendous effort on the part of Babblers to exert enough social pressure to contain disruptive behavior. And I just cant tell you how grateful I am that some people here invested their time and energy into standing with me as I tried to keep my head above water.. even at the cost of putting themselves at risk for being considered 'uncivil' in their efforts to call attention to the escalation of behavior that clearly violated existing rules.
My deeply felt gratitude to all of those who cared..
Solstice
Posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 19:35:34
In reply to Re: My gratitude... » Dinah, posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 19:13:26
Posted by Willful on April 24, 2012, at 12:08:49
In reply to Re: My gratitude... » Dinah, posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 19:13:26
Solstice I feel really bad that you had to go through this on the med board.
I've long felt that something should be done about certain issues and the repeated actions by certain people here, and have tried at various times to let Bob know privately and also to say on the board that I take great exception to certain things.
But when you're repeated rebuffed, you tend to give up.
Your experience convinces me that it is always worth getting involved, as long as you can keep your calm and stay clear. It's hard to do that, but I guess we all have a responsibility toward one another to try.
Willful
Posted by Solstice on April 25, 2012, at 21:54:35
In reply to Re: My gratitude..., posted by Willful on April 24, 2012, at 12:08:49
> Solstice I feel really bad that you had to go through this on the med board.
>
> I've long felt that something should be done about certain issues and the repeated actions by certain people here, and have tried at various times to let Bob know privately and also to say on the board that I take great exception to certain things.
>
> But when you're repeated rebuffed, you tend to give up.
>
> Your experience convinces me that it is always worth getting involved, as long as you can keep your calm and stay clear. It's hard to do that, but I guess we all have a responsibility toward one another to try.
>Thanks Willful. In the absence of Dr. Bob's intervention, the community standing with someone who is under siege is very effective. There is something about a respectful but strong and unified multi-voiced objection that diminishes the impact of a verbal bully. It sure worked in my case... it's what made it possible for me to continue forging ahead to get the help I needed.
Solstice
Posted by zazenducke on April 26, 2012, at 8:26:43
In reply to Re: Lou's request » Lou Pilder, posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2012, at 16:54:34
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 3, 2012, at 9:22:53
In reply to Lou's reminder to the administration-nieghnmoar, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2012, at 16:17:11
> Mr. Hsiung and his deputy,
> In regards to your reminder provision, there are 9 more outstading notifications from me.
> Lou PIlderMr. Hsiung and his deputy,
In regards to your provision to keep remimdinding you, the above.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2013, at 13:38:29
In reply to Lou's reminder to the administration-nieghnmoar-B, posted by Lou Pilder on July 3, 2012, at 9:22:53
> > Mr. Hsiung and his deputy,
> > In regards to your reminder provision, there are 9 more outstading notifications from me.
> > Lou PIlder
>
> Mr. Hsiung and his deputy,
> In regards to your provision to keep remimdinding you, the above.
> Lou PilderMr Hsiung,
In regards to your reminder policy, the above.
Lou Pilder
This is the end of the thread.
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