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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 8:15:39
In reply to MY thots » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on February 17, 2008, at 22:10:31
> > > WHY won't you pull a post when its obvo ongoingly harmful and triggering to all, not JUST the dissed poster????
> >
> > Dissing is part of life, even here. I'd like to encourage ways of dealing with it besides trying to make it disappear.
> I also know there is a poster(blocked) who visits from time to time and spews some on the boards towards Bob(you) and the posts are usus at late night and are quickly removed....why? maybe we could learn from you accepting gracefully these seeming attacks on yourself????
These posts are deleted because the person is posting while they are blocked, which is against the site guidelines. That's the only time (that I know of) when posts are routinely deleted. If they had been made after the block had been over, they would remain in the archives like any other post, even if they were uncivil and resulted in a new block. I don't believe that the reason the posts were deleted has anything to do with the content, but rather that they were made while the poster was already blocked.Hope that clears up that particular confusion there.
ClearSkies
Posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
In reply to Re: MY thots » muffled, posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 8:15:39
in this case the poster was posting while VERY obvo they would have been blocked, just not yet cuz of time lapse.
Time lapse ONLY reason poster not yet bolcked on addtle posts.
But I bout f*ck*d bout all this sh*t.
M
Posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:21:28
In reply to well, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
I am crazy.
F*ck*d in the head.
But I MUST go on as I procreated.
Damn.
Just f*ck*d.
The whole world is f*ck*d.
Me too.
I could go on and on with the sickness thats fermenting in my brain.
But I don't wanna mess noone
Just wanna die.
Can't do that either.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
F U C K.
There now block me.
I AM AN *SS.
Posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 9:26:27
In reply to well, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
Yeah, it's a chicken and the egg case? Which came first? Is that what you're saying?
The instances I'm referring to, the poster had been blocked for a long time and re-registered under a different name in order to make the posts - that's what had been deleted. Maybe a fine distinction but one that's important IMO.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 9:29:38
In reply to well, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
Muffled, I'm very sorry if in my attempt to explain my understanding of the guidelines that I triggered you. It wasn't at all my intention. I feel badly that I screwed this up and wish I hadn't said anything, yet again, on an Admin thread.
Take care.
CS
Posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 10:14:27
In reply to Muffled, posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 9:29:38
Know you was trying to help.
No worries to you.
I feel sames you.
Sorry you got caught.
Just all this hurt stuff is so hard for me, and you too I know, and we try and help, and its so hard, and it hurts.
Sorry to send any hurt your way.
:-(
This why I stay away too.
Just sometimes I wish it could feel better here.
Lotsa good people.
((CS))
M
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 20, 2008, at 14:27:04
In reply to You'll have to excuse me babbleworld*trigger*, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:21:28
> F * C K
...by not bypassing the automatic asterisking system to use language that could offend others.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by muffled on February 20, 2008, at 14:31:36
In reply to Please be civil/ follow site guidelines.... » muffled, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 20, 2008, at 14:27:04
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
In reply to Re: pulling posts, posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2008, at 2:09:54
>
>
> I haven't been posting to those who may feel hurt when I block someone. Maybe I should. My hope is that they see the block as validating, and that other posters support them directly.
>
> BobI am very concerned that you can "hope that a banned memeber can see the block as validating."
Explain that to PB members, please. I know that others must be puzzled over your MO concerning blocking posters. Man, I was "blocked" many times when I was growing up. It sucked then and for some, it sucks now.How do other posters support them directly? I see that some people are scared to post and show support as it might compromise their positions here.
Why don't you write to those who feel hurt? Did I not understand you when you said that this is a support forum? If you have time to block, it stands to reason that you have time to babblemail the "blockee".....
I don't see how you can say one thing and do another. I am very puzzled about the administrator not taking the time to let the person know that being hurt is taken into consideration and validate that by contacting the poster yourself.
Trust me when I say that the statement that you make about "this doesn't mean that I think you are a bad person???????? I always get a hole in my stomach when I see you post that. I think it does cause some posters to feel that they are bad, after all they got the rug pulled out from under them.
I oppose the blocks, obviously. (I am not all that bothered to be blocked as I withdrew my deep investment in PB a long time ago.And when you do block me, my investment reduces even more.
That doesn't mean that other more vulnerable posters detach and remain comfortable knowing that they have are being denied their support system that they have placed so much trust in.
What is that saying? "out of sight, out of mind"?
I feel that it is apparent that you have adopted that MO and that sort of does away with the idea that anyone can be here and be safe.
Lots of people, myself included, can be in a dreadful spot and say something that they ordinarily wouldn't say. Wouldn't it be beneficial (for you and the poster) if a personal inquiry was made, via babblemail, to try to find out what the "heck is going on" with the poster?
Faye
Posted by 10derHeart on February 28, 2008, at 13:33:04
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
> > I haven't been posting to those who may feel hurt when I block someone. Maybe I should. My hope is that they see the block as validating, and that other posters support them directly.
> > Bob> I am very concerned that you can "hope that a banned memeber can see the block as validating."
I think there is a misunderstanding about who (whom?-I never know) Dr. Bob was talking about. The way I read the thread, muffled was asking about not deleting certain kinds of posts (that have led to a block) - the kind in the FAQ called "particularly inappropriate," so that posters hurt by those posts wouldn't have to continue to see them on the boards.
When he answered, I understood him to be talking about the "victim" who was likely hurt by the words in the post (as the uncivil words were directed at them personally), and that he hopes issuing the block will be seen as validating by *that* person, not the "blockee." And that he hopes other posters support the "victim" of any hurtful words in the uncivil post(s), but maybe he ought to consider saying something to them himself.
At least that's the way I read it. I don't think anyone asked, or that he addressed, actions, emails, etc. toward the person who has been blocked - not in this thread, anyway.
Which of course, doesn't make any of your comments or questions invalid or unimportant in any way. I just thought maybe it would clear up confusion to see which posters Dr. Bob was actually referring to in his post above.
Actually, I thought they were thought-provoking questions, and that others here would also like to hear Dr. Bob's answers to them.
Posted by muffled on February 28, 2008, at 14:28:45
In reply to MY thots » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on February 17, 2008, at 22:10:31
Posted by Kath on February 29, 2008, at 10:59:05
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
Hi you.
Maybe this explains your "very missed" by me & probly others absence of posts at Social. I've been missing you there.
I'm sorry so many people are upset & I appreciate that people post here about it & I hope it can get resolved.
(((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))))
luv, Kath
Posted by fayeroe on February 29, 2008, at 14:31:36
In reply to Re: pulling posts » fayeroe, posted by 10derHeart on February 28, 2008, at 13:33:04
Posted by fayeroe on February 29, 2008, at 14:33:02
In reply to Re: pulling posts » fayeroe, posted by Kath on February 29, 2008, at 10:59:05
> Hi you.
>
> Maybe this explains your "very missed" by me & probly others absence of posts at Social. I've been missing you there.
>
> I'm sorry so many people are upset & I appreciate that people post here about it & I hope it can get resolved.
>
> (((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))))
>
> luv, KathI've missed you!! Thanks, Faye
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2008, at 22:09:21
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
> of course people get hurt and you try to reduce that, but I just don't feel that leaving and ECEPTIONALLY hurtful post is worth the educational value....
Hmm, maybe not. It might be a can of worms, what exactly to consider exceptionally hurtful, but we could try. Or maybe we could leave the post, but delete the most hurtful sections of it.
> And in the interests of encouraging 'dealing' with stuff, then why eg(this is just one example) does a poster get blocked, as opposed to PBC'd re: defending another poster? ... how are we to learn to curb ourselves?
That's a good question. If someone is interested in learning to curb themselves, they could ask for help?
> in the case where there has been multiple harmful posts ... it would be nice it the transgression was noticed by you or a dep in the OTHER THREAD(s) affected AS WELL, by posting something like, I dunno, but say "Blocked PosterX" then in the post you could say this poster is already previosly blocked and provide a link.
> Its just that in this way, the hurt poster feels like they have not been ignored or unnoticed etc which can be triggering on a board such as this. The blocked poster would have been(and in fact HAS been) blocked for hurting them ALSO...they are not less important, they count too...
> I hope I have explained this in a logical way. I am not good at explaining things.
>
> muffledThanks for the suggestion! I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the deputies and I discussed it and agreed that to do that. For example:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080303/msgs/817316.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080303/msgs/817317.html--
> How do other posters support them directly? I see that some people are scared to post and show support as it might compromise their positions here.
I can see how people might be concerned that if they support blocked posters, then we might see them as not supporting us. But direct forms of support, for example, saying you care about them and look forward to their return, are fine. Support is the goal here.
But indirect forms of support, for example, saying I went overboard and should've blocked a different poster instead, might be considered uncivil.
> Lots of people, myself included, can be in a dreadful spot and say something that they ordinarily wouldn't say. Wouldn't it be beneficial (for you and the poster) if a personal inquiry was made, via babblemail, to try to find out what the "heck is going on" with the poster?
>
> FayeIt could be beneficial if other posters reached out to them, too, and we'd be open to hearing what was going on, but in our administrative roles I think we need to act on what was posted.
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on March 28, 2008, at 10:31:33
In reply to Re: pulling posts, posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2008, at 22:09:21
*******> Lots of people, myself included, can be in a dreadful spot and say something that they ordinarily wouldn't say. Wouldn't it be beneficial (for you and the poster) if a personal inquiry was made, via babblemail, to try to find out what the "heck is going on" with the poster?
>
> FayeIt could be beneficial if other posters reached out to them, too, and we'd be open to hearing what was going on, but in our administrative roles I think we need to act on what was posted.
Bob
I was thinking of the "intervention" before they got blocked or PBCiviled.
Would the administration hold off for a certain amount of time so another poster could zip a babblemail off to the "offender" offering to talk? If you waited X amount of minutes and no one notified a deputy or you that they knew what was going on, then you could take action?
You may be able to offer another scenario that would work better for the deputies and you and still protect the poster for a bit.
Pat
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 11:52:46
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on March 28, 2008, at 10:31:33
I like the idea in theory.
And in fact practice it as much as I can. If something flares up between two posters, I try to wait a bit to see if they can reconcile it between them.
Or if I think a situation is best handled by other posters diffusing it, or reaching out, I tend to wait on that as well. Although it makes it difficult for me to diffuse or reach out myself, since admin action might be necessary at some point.
What actually happens, in my experience, is that while it works sometimes, other times I wish I had acted sooner because it catches fire and other posters respond uncivilly to the provocation and then are angry when admin actions come to them as well.
And frankly, while I understand the reasons why uncivil responses to provocation are against the rules, I don't like better than anyone else for someone to get in trouble for responding to provocation.
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 16:19:07
In reply to Re: pulling posts, posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2008, at 22:09:21
> Hmm, maybe not. It might be a can of worms, what exactly to consider exceptionally hurtful, but we could try. Or maybe we could leave the post, but delete the most hurtful sections of it.*well there has been some instances where its been pretty damn obvious that the post is above and beyond...there's a couple now I'd rather see gone...but I am tired.
As to deleting hurtful sections, its often the whole post that is bad as its anger.
Perhaps deletion of posts could be based on a similiar premise of reporting a post. If more than 2 people wish it pulled(either via report a post or on admin), and it is deemed pretty bad, then perhaps that would work?
> > And in the interests of encouraging 'dealing' with stuff, then why eg(this is just one example) does a poster get blocked, as opposed to PBC'd re: defending another poster? ... how are we to learn to curb ourselves?
>
> That's a good question. If someone is interested in learning to curb themselves, they could ask for help?*sigh, when I off on a tangent I am generally not clear enuf to ask for help...
BUT a PBC might help bring me back....kinda a friendly 'watch out! your pushing it', sort of thing...
> > in the case where there has been multiple harmful posts ... it would be nice it the transgression was noticed by you or a dep in the OTHER THREAD(s) affected AS WELL
> It could be beneficial if other posters reached out to them, too, and we'd be open to hearing what was going on, but in our administrative roles I think we need to act on what was posted.* I think this is a case where the report a post feature could be used as well, in a report in a supportive way....to keep admin 'in the loop' as it were....
Hmmm, this report a post is growing on me!? It COULD be a useful tool for MANY things, not just a thing to rat out others...
M
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 16:22:00
In reply to Re: pulling posts » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 11:52:46
> I like the idea in theory.
>
> And in fact practice it as much as I can. If something flares up between two posters, I try to wait a bit to see if they can reconcile it between them.
>
> Or if I think a situation is best handled by other posters diffusing it, or reaching out, I tend to wait on that as well. Although it makes it difficult for me to diffuse or reach out myself, since admin action might be necessary at some point.
>
> What actually happens, in my experience, is that while it works sometimes, other times I wish I had acted sooner because it catches fire and other posters respond uncivilly to the provocation and then are angry when admin actions come to them as well.
>
> And frankly, while I understand the reasons why uncivil responses to provocation are against the rules, I don't like better than anyone else for someone to get in trouble for responding to provocation.*I wonder if something like this post could be included in the FAQ cuz it does explain well where the deps are comming from....
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 20:11:04
In reply to wonderful post-ADMIN » Dinah, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 16:22:00
I guess maybe my theory of mind is poor in some ways. I always think of those things as something everyone realizes, since it's so clear in my own mind.
You really are good at pouring oil on troubled waters, Muffled. Although I've never really understood that expression.
Posted by Kath on March 28, 2008, at 21:17:46
In reply to Re: wonderful post-ADMIN » muffled, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 20:11:04
I wonder what that does mean?
Does it mean pouring soothing oil to calm the waters?
Kath
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 21:27:17
In reply to Re: wonderful post-ADMIN » Dinah, posted by Kath on March 28, 2008, at 21:17:46
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288150.html
:-)
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 22:37:32
In reply to phrase meaning link, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 21:27:17
Posted by Kath on March 29, 2008, at 18:46:34
In reply to phrase meaning link, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 21:27:17
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 14:05:23
In reply to wonderful post-ADMIN » Dinah, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 16:22:00
> there's a couple now I'd rather see gone...but I am tired.
If you feel up to it later, notify us, and we'll discuss them. It'll help to have specific examples in front of us.
> > If someone is interested in learning to curb themselves, they could ask for help?
>
> a PBC might help bring me back....kinda a friendly 'watch out! your pushing it', sort of thing...Other posters could also help bring them back without being asked. And might be perceived to be friendlier, too. :-)
> the report a post feature could be used as well ... in a supportive way....to keep admin 'in the loop' as it were....
> Hmmm, this report a post is growing on me!? It COULD be a useful tool for MANY things, not just a thing to rat out others...That's a great point. It's a way to communicate and to work together. To keep it safe and civil here.
> I wonder if something like this post could be included in the FAQ cuz it does explain well where the deps are comming from....
Good idea, I added a sentence to:
Why do you have deputy administrators? What do they do?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#deputiesand linked directly to Dinah's post.
Bob
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