![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 20:53:33
In reply to Guys, really....., posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 19:31:53
or anything like that.
Posted by Jost on September 30, 2006, at 21:02:42
In reply to It's not going to be like the prefect's carriage.., posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 20:53:33
Wow, muffy. I guess you're right.
Okay, I won't get too worried about what they're saying in Room 2.Thanks for that.
Jost
Posted by alexandra_k on September 30, 2006, at 21:51:30
In reply to It's not going to be like the prefect's carriage.., posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 20:53:33
Ah.
Interesting take, Dinah.
You don't see an analogy with private boards?
Posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 21:55:42
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by alexandra_k on September 30, 2006, at 21:51:30
Nope. Not at my understanding anyway. Dr. Bob might understand it differently tho, and it's his gig, so I'll let him explain.
But I hope you won't mind if I'm a bit annoyed with him for setting us up in this situation again. :(
Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 22:00:46
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 21:55:42
Our preacher didn't communicate well with the elders....
and he got the boot.....
It was sad.
Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 22:02:07
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 21:55:42
and the thing is, just watch the controversy of even HAVING a place to talk in peace....
Posted by alexandra_k on October 1, 2006, at 0:10:34
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 21:55:42
a 'bit' annoyed...
i can't believe this
i feel dirty
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2006, at 0:32:36
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by alexandra_k on October 1, 2006, at 0:10:34
And I feel sick. And not annoyed with Dr. Bob at all anymore.
Posted by Jost on October 1, 2006, at 1:17:12
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by alexandra_k on September 30, 2006, at 21:51:30
I'm not sure I follow about the private board. Maybe has some particular significance or reference?
It doesn't strike me as a bad thing for Dr. Bob and the people who work as deputies to have a convenient meeting area.
Is a private board so bad, if we assume that the intentions of the people in the meeting are to work things out?
Maybe it will evolve in ways that we don't presently foresee.
Jost
Posted by gardenergirl on October 1, 2006, at 2:23:52
In reply to Re: what's a private board? » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on October 1, 2006, at 1:17:12
Working teams and groups function well when there is consistent and clear communication between the members and the leader. Issues surrounding processes, policies, areas of concern, etc. can be discussed by the whole group at one time in a meeting. That way, no one misses a memo/email. Some organizations have daily meetings, some weekly, some monthly, quarterly, etc.
We've never done this. The primary method of communication among the team members has been via emails on a listserv. What comes up comes up as it does, and we all try to respond as needed. If there were an agenda of things to review, we might actually make some progress on fixing some of the stuff that needs doing, might become more consistent among ourselves in how we perform our roles, and perhaps most importantly, we might get a block of Dr. Bob's time to discuss with him the various questions and/or concerns that may have come up in the past week or more. Things are less likely to slip through the cracks, imo.
If a team needs to hold a meeting, they need somewhere to meet, right? Dr. Bob could have tried a conference call instead, but this "room" is already "in the building", so to speak.
I suppose seeing admin. in chat might feel similar to seeing all the managers go into the conference room and close the door when there was no meeting scheduled and you don't know what it's about.
gg
Posted by 10derHeart on October 1, 2006, at 12:35:32
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2006, at 0:32:36
And I am utterly and completely confused as to the meaning of almost everything anyone has written here.
??
:-(
Posted by Jost on October 1, 2006, at 23:34:22
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by 10derHeart on October 1, 2006, at 12:35:32
I was perplexed by the prefect's carriage-- still am to some degree-- but it's in one of the Harry Potter movies. Apparently somewhere the prefects got together and talked.
About what I'm not sure-- but I infer that they may have gone off topic and started talking about other students--unless that was where they talked about other students? or is this my own slightly fevered mis-reading?
Jost
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 2, 2006, at 0:31:12
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by 10derHeart on October 1, 2006, at 12:35:32
> And I am utterly and completely confused as to the meaning of almost everything anyone has written here.
>
> ??I thought it might help the deputy team and me work together if we met from time to time. That would be hard to do in person, and since we have this new chat function, I thought we'd try using it. So I added a "room" just for us.
Some posters happened to be there when I was working on it and found out about it that way.
Actually there are a total of 3 rooms now: "room 1", "room 2", and "reserved". 1 and 2 are both open. Whether we should keep both of them and, if so, differentiate them further are open, so to speak, questions, and I'll be interested in what you all think.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2006, at 0:44:42
In reply to Re: utterly and completely confused, posted by Dr. Bob on October 2, 2006, at 0:31:12
I think it might be nice to keep one of the rooms for light hearted distracting chat and use another of the rooms for more serious stuff.
I mean in the sense that if discussion is getting heated and / or triggering (because of subject matter, say) then people in room 1 should have the perogative to ask people if they wouldn't mind taking it to room 2 (for example.
I guess people will tend to initally enter room 1 (by default) and thats why I suggest room 2 for more serious issues.
Is the limit 15 posters all up in Babble chat or 15 posters per room?
Are all the posters in Babble chat listed regardless of room?
Does it say which room babblers are in?
I just mean... When you are in room 1 it would be nice to know who is in room 2 and vice versa.
I don't know what I think about knowing when people are in restricted chat. If people can't login to chat because the 15 person limit is reached (if that is for all chatters regardless of room) then I guess people will figure how many people there are in restricted chat anyway.
I'm still not that happy about restricted chat...
But done done can't be undone etc etc.
Whatever...
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 2, 2006, at 0:54:18
In reply to Re: utterly and completely confused » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2006, at 0:44:42
> I think it might be nice to keep one of the rooms for light hearted distracting chat and use another of the rooms for more serious stuff.
That sounds like a reasonable suggestion...
> Is the limit 15 posters all up in Babble chat or 15 posters per room?
Hmm, good question, I'm not sure.
> Are all the posters in Babble chat listed regardless of room?
>
> Does it say which room babblers are in?
>
> I just mean... When you are in room 1 it would be nice to know who is in room 2 and vice versa.Whenever you're in a room, the other people in that room are listed. And the initial login page lists everyone in the open rooms. I don't think there's a way, at least right now, to find out who's in room 2 if you're in room 1...
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2006, at 1:04:52
In reply to Re: utterly and completely confused, posted by Dr. Bob on October 2, 2006, at 0:54:18
> > Is the limit 15 posters all up in Babble chat or 15 posters per room?
> Hmm, good question, I'm not sure.
test16 should let you know.
> Whenever you're in a room, the other people in that room are listed. And the initial login page lists everyone in the open rooms. I don't think there's a way, at least right now, to find out who's in room 2 if you're in room 1...Dinah suggested that you could look at the login page and infer that whoever wasn't in your room was in the other open room. I guess one would need to refresh the login page periodically to check whether anyone had logged on since you.
It would be nice if after listing the chatters in your room it listed the chatters in the next room. But since there is a way to find out (and since one could just go take a look) I guess it doesn't really matter.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 2, 2006, at 8:23:15
In reply to Re: utterly and completely confused » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2006, at 1:04:52
I looked in on it when there were about seven or so people in chat. The log in page listed who was chatting and had (room 1) or (room 2), or something like that listed after the screen names.
Regarding the restricted chat room, do you think that all Babblers should be able to view and/or participate in administrative meetings? I wasn't involved in the discussion, so I don't know the basis of your concerns.
gg
Posted by Dinah on October 2, 2006, at 10:05:46
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria » 10derHeart, posted by Jost on October 1, 2006, at 23:34:22
The prefect's carriage (and prefects bathroom) were sort of privileges granted to prefects in Harry Potter. Harry felt left out when Ron and Hermione went to sit in the prefect's carriage, and he had to find other people to sit with. Although he made a new friend in Luna Lovegood. Which is neither here nor there, but was important in plot development.
At any rate, a deputy chat room, the equivilant of a prefect carriage, is not what this is. As gg says, it's more of a conference room. Which is not to say that I approve of Dr. Bob's choices in how to go about this, and think he could have made choices more sensitive to the feelings of others.
I think the two room idea is not necessarily a good one. It's not only confusing, but we've seen the kind of hurt that can arise when people retire there and are less than joyfully welcoming to others that might enter.
Prior experience already would seem to suggest that there should only be one room.
But that's just my opinion, based on what I've seen thus far.
Posted by muffled on October 2, 2006, at 11:38:40
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by Dinah on October 2, 2006, at 10:05:46
Well I am amazed, and glad I stayed thru the 'discussion', about the rooms.
It was sort of horrible cuz usus. I run, or flap around madly trying to make it stop.
But it was ok in the end, much to my amazement.
It was sorta like a trust thing.
Like I was trusting that people I cared about would come round in the end.
That they wouldn't destroy each other.
And they didn't.....
I am amazed.
Completely delightfully amazed.
So I learned lots.
And it seems to have blown over mostly?
Though I still a little twitchy and afraid the fight will start again....
I think having a private place for admin discussions is very logical, and should proly be very useful to aid in the running of the site.
So I think it will be ok to try two rooms.
I think we need to try and be sensitive of each other in moving from room to room.
I'm not sure how that will work to be honest, but the IDEA seems good.
To have a more serious room, and a room where we can just be silly cuz we trying NOT to feel, and we can do it mostly safely there.
Thanks all.
Muffled
Posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2006, at 11:05:59
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by muffled on October 2, 2006, at 11:38:40
> Well I am amazed, and glad I stayed thru the 'discussion', about the rooms.
> It was sort of horrible cuz usus. I run, or flap around madly trying to make it stop.
> But it was ok in the end, much to my amazement.
> It was sorta like a trust thing.
> Like I was trusting that people I cared about would come round in the end.
> That they wouldn't destroy each other.
> And they didn't.....
> I am amazed.
> Completely delightfully amazed.
> So I learned lots.Thats great Muffled.
:-)> And it seems to have blown over mostly?
> Though I still a little twitchy and afraid the fight will start again....It might do... But if it does... You can avoid the threads - right? Like how if there are people in chat and the conversation gets heated then you might be able to find some people to chat with you in another room. I'm glad you stuck around too. ((((Muffled))))
> I think we need to try and be sensitive of each other in moving from room to room.
I agree...
But I also think some kind of sensitive honesty would be even better.
Assertiveness...
I guess people struggle with that too (I know I sure as hell do)
But maybe... It saves more hurts in the long run?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2006, at 11:13:10
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by Dinah on October 2, 2006, at 10:05:46
> The prefect's carriage (and prefects bathroom) were sort of privileges granted to prefects in Harry Potter.
Like how restricted chat is a sort of priviledge granted to deputies?
> Harry felt left out when Ron and Hermione went to sit in the prefect's carriage
Like how people might feel left out when the deputies go to restricted chat?
> and he had to find other people to sit with. Although he made a new friend in Luna Lovegood. Which is neither here nor there, but was important in plot development.
lol. Still seeing analogies...
> At any rate, a deputy chat room, the equivilant of a prefect carriage, is not what this is.It isn't? So non-prefects (deputies) can go there too can they?
> As gg says, it's more of a conference room.
Oh. So if we call it 'conference room' instead of 'gated community' instead of 'private chat' instead of 'exclusive chat' instead of 'small group' instead of 'prefects carriage' then that makes it completely different?
> Which is not to say that I approve of Dr. Bob's choices in how to go about this, and think he could have made choices more sensitive to the feelings of others.
I was pissed...
But I'd rather know upfront than have even more go on behind the scenes...
I seem to be about the only person upset about it at any rate...> I think the two room idea is not necessarily a good one.
Two rooms or three?
> It's not only confusing, but we've seen the kind of hurt that can arise when people retire there and are less than joyfully welcoming to others that might enter.
Kind of like following the link to restricted chat and finding BAM! One can't enter? How much of a 'less than joyful welcoming' is that?
> Prior experience already would seem to suggest that there should only be one room.One room, or two?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2006, at 11:19:28
In reply to Re: utterly and completely confused » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on October 2, 2006, at 8:23:15
> Regarding the restricted chat room, do you think that all Babblers should be able to view and/or participate in administrative meetings?I guess I thought the admin board was for dealing with admin issues / concerns etc.
People do tend to check the posts regularly - don't they?
Posted by gardenergirl on October 3, 2006, at 14:08:23
In reply to Re: utterly and completely confused » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2006, at 11:19:28
>
> > Regarding the restricted chat room, do you think that all Babblers should be able to view and/or participate in administrative meetings?
>
> I guess I thought the admin board was for dealing with admin issues / concerns etc.I think that's generally true.
But I can't imagine it would be an effective process or all that meaningful to the community if I (or another deputy) were to post here that I encountered an error or some other kind of glitch in the adminstration system while I was trying to complete a deputy task. Or to say, "Heads up. I noticed X, but I won't have time to do Y until Z. Anyone else available?" Or to say, "In the next X weeks, days, months, etc., I'm planning on or have to do Y IRL, so I will not be as available or will be gone until Z." Or, "Gee, Dr. Bob. I wish we had an easier way to do X."
I'm a very curious person by nature, and I prefer being "in the loop" versus "out of the loop" in organizations and groups. So I can relate to feeling outside and how that can feel yucky in a number of different ways.
But I don't know of any large organization or group that is perfectly flat in organizational structure. I'm not sure I could imagine how a perfectly flat organization or group of any signficant number could function effectively for any period of time.
Levels of structure in groups/organizations do foster inclusion and exclusion. I guess I've always experienced this as an artifact of group process and a "necessary evil" of sorts so that groups can function efficiently and effectively.
>
> People do tend to check the posts regularly - don't they?Sorry, I'm not sure I follow. ??
gg
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2006, at 14:46:32
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2006, at 11:13:10
I think I've explained my position enough times for me, Alex.
Not going to do it again.
Period.
I'm sorry if you don't agree/understand, but I don't see how repeating myself will help.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 3, 2006, at 16:32:45
In reply to Re: It's not going to be like the prefect's carria, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2006, at 11:13:10
> > The prefect's carriage (and prefects bathroom) were sort of privileges granted to prefects in Harry Potter.
>
> Like how restricted chat is a sort of priviledge granted to deputies?It's a tool, alex. It's not the only one. It's no different from email, listservs, IM's, phone calls, conference calls, etc. It's just a different medium. If you'd like to use "privilege" versus "tools", that's up to you. Either way, it's still about deputies having what they need to best fulfill the obligations we volunteered to take on. Is a firefighter "privileged" to have access to water? If she also has access to infrared imaging to aid in locating victims inside a burning building, is she a "privileged" firefighter? Or is she outfitted well by the department so she can best do her job? (In no way am I equating the importance of firefighters with being a deputy...just a metaphor).
> > Harry felt left out when Ron and Hermione went to sit in the prefect's carriage
>
> Like how people might feel left out when the deputies go to restricted chat?Feeling left out sucks. I don't know what else to say about this that wouldn't be some sort of platitude or would seem otherwise invalidating.
>
> > At any rate, a deputy chat room, the equivilant of a prefect carriage, is not what this is.
>
> It isn't? So non-prefects (deputies) can go there too can they?I'm going to assume that's a rhetorical question. Not having read or watched any Harry Potter (gasp!), I have no idea whether it is or isn't equivalent to a prefect's carriage. I do know that it's a space on the internet where members of a group can go to communicate with each other in real(ish) time. One of a gazillion (exaggeration for effect-- I'm not about to start counting). It is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't. And as a mostly "empty space", I suppose it's ambiguous enough for multiple interpretations and assumptions.
So is the issue that the members of a group communicate with each other privately? That's not okay? Or that a "place" exists where not everyone can go? Something else?
> > As gg says, it's more of a conference room.
>
> Oh. So if we call it 'conference room' instead of 'gated community' instead of 'private chat' instead of 'exclusive chat' instead of 'small group' instead of 'prefects carriage' then that makes it completely different?What do you think, alex? Are you saying there's no difference at all between those different terms? Is there anything inherently wrong with the existence of any of those?
You and I have had private chats. Via email. Via private messages. Via telephone. Was there something wrong with that? Were we being exclusive? Private? Did it indicate something about anyone else that you and I chose to speak privately?
> I was pissed...
I hear that you were/are pissed, even if I don't understand it.
> Kind of like following the link to restricted chat and finding BAM! One can't enter? How much of a 'less than joyful welcoming' is that?
Ouch. That would be aggravating. It doesn't say anything about being restricted until you try to enter?
>
> > Prior experience already would seem to suggest that there should only be one room.
>
> One room, or two?sigh, why does it always take me so danged long to compose replies to you?
gg
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.