![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by JenStar on November 4, 2004, at 9:30:11
In reply to Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 15:51:52
Dr. Bob,
what about letting pregnant women participate? After the fact, it would be interesting to see if a "blind" reader (one who didn't know the procreative status of any responder) could discern who was & was not pregnant. Could also do a (very subjective) read-thru to see if pregnant women responded more positively, less positively, more ravingly (ha! I bet not!), or in more of a fragile manner.Are pregnant women generally banned from research studies such as this one, or is it something new that you decided to implement?
Thanks!
JenStar
Posted by Crazy_Charlie on November 4, 2004, at 10:26:55
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 18:21:29
I just discovered psycho babble while searching the internet for psychology related topics. I have been here only a few days. I find it interesting since I am a clinical psychologist, and for me it was valuable to read about other people's experiences with therapists. I feel that I can learn a lot from that.
I have been posting very actively lately, but that is due to the fact that I am sick and have a bit extra time at the moment. I will continue using the board also in the future, but not as much as I do now. The last days I have been exploring and getting to know this place, and learing includes also being active, so I have also been posting. Now I have been pretty much posting wherever I find an interesting subject, but in the future I think I will stick mostly to psychology and medical issues. That is my field of work, and when I have less spare time I must consentrate on that.
I am diagnosed for recurrent depression, usually with major episodes. I am currently not depressed. And due to proper treatment and therapy I have less frequent depressive episodes. Of medication I use cipralex 10mg daily (escitalopram). I am currently not in therapy since I have just moved to another country, but I will find one as soon as I can. Earlier I have been in different therapy situations (school psychologist at 12, a suicide expert when I was 14, humanistic therapy and cognitive therapy during studies, psychodynamic therapy on private basis). I don't have "my own" psychiatrists, but I am surrounded by that field of work when I work, and so far I have always been working in a very supportive environment and gotten free conversations with experts in my condition through the different jobs I have had. I am currently not working since I am studying further at the moment.
So far this online group has helpful in the awareness of bad and not bad behaviours from psychotherapists, and in understanding the effect and usefulness of potential addictive drugs in people who are using them without being addicted.
Posted by Squiggles on November 4, 2004, at 10:33:48
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Crazy_Charlie on November 4, 2004, at 10:26:55
Hi,
It's reassurring to have a professional
in the group.:-)
Squiggles
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 11:01:15
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups » Dr. Bob, posted by JenStar on November 4, 2004, at 9:30:11
> what about letting pregnant women participate?
That's already come up on a separate thread, so I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding that. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/410219.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 19:01:29
In reply to Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 15:51:52
My dx varies a bit over time but in general reads: generalised anxiety, dysthymia, borderline personality, post traumatic stress. First had contact with the mental health service in 1998. They tell me I'm chronic, though I have improved in my level of functioning and haven't SI'd or attempted for 2 years now.
I started posting to psycho-babble after searching for an online support group and liking the idea of a Dr. moderated as opposed to consumer moderated board. At the time I was in a strange country with no support for my mental health and I found babble to be something of a lifeline. While I was surrounded by people there was nobody that I could talk to about my mood or about certain problems that I was having. By reading other peoples posts I felt less alone and less crazy to see that there are other people in the world who struggle with the same or similar issues to me on a daily basis. I found peoples responses to my posts to be supportive and helpful and I have to say that I mostly find that people respond with good suggestions that I had honestly not been able to think up myself. I find it empowering when people respond positively to the suggestions and support that I offer. Oftentimes I find it easier to give advice to others rather than come up with good advice for myself. It is empowering to think that even when I am in a bad place with my own issues I may still have something helpful to say to another.
I then left babble for a period. I returned after I had returned to my home country and was experiencing problems with my clinicians. I found that I was able to post about things that I was too afraid or ashamed to talk to someone about face to face. Sometimes I would receive responses that let me know that I wasn't the only one going through that, and it would give me the strength and courage to tell my clinicians about it. I discuss things on babble that are helpful to my relationship with my clinicians, such as transference and boundaries.
I vary a bit in terms of the amount of time that I spend here. When I am low it really is my lifeline. When I was terminated by my last clinician I honestly believe that babble was what helped me to get through that relatively unscathed. When I am better I suppose that I do spend less time here, I guess that I tend to put more time into my own work instead. I still try to check out the boards, though, because the more time I spend here the more I see posters as individual people and the more I come to care about them and want to see how things are going with them. While I have friends and I can talk to them about my issues to a certain extent I find that talking about my mental health issues can put a strain on my real-world relationships. I find that babble takes care of my need to tell someone when things are going badly, and my need for a bit of support and that that improves my real-world relationships because it takes that pressure off them.
I don't often request factual information off the boards, but approach such information with a sceptical attitude (but then that is pretty much my approach to life as well!) I think that I fairly much trust babble, because I trust babblers to be critical and not let erroneous information go without comment. Sometimes it is helpful to get information, especially when google just gets too complicated... sometimes a simple answer is best and then one can check up on it to see whether it is correct.
Posted by annamaynot on November 5, 2004, at 7:34:28
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 19:01:29
The post by alexandra_k has hit home for me. Except of course that I never leave home. The feeling of isolation is familiar though, as is the loss or loosing of therapists. These posts are an avenue that may not lead anywhere in particular, but at least seem to have signs along the way. It is good to know that others travel through this world alone too. I'm getting old and tired which makes the trip seem useless. Why bother? These postings, and the vague thought that someone may be reading them and thinking about me for a brief moment gives me a comfort. I feel more like there may be a me. I don't get that much from my family, who care about me I suppose, but know so little about me. It is the strangers who can read that I am lost and alone, confused and confuddled by the world. There are a million pieces of me in my head, all scrambling to get out and run in different directions. It is my responsibility to hold them back for fear of...what? breaking the rules written in some book of life. The guide for the recently deceased. Maybe I am already deceased? Just a stranger in a strange land, waiting for my turn.
Posted by Fi on November 6, 2004, at 11:10:17
In reply to Stranger in a strange land, posted by annamaynot on November 5, 2004, at 7:34:28
Pros:
1. Wonderful to have support from people who really know what its like, and are OK with messages about difficult topics we cant talk to friends/family about.
2.Its free. The process of payment would be a barrier that might well have put me off (also trusting untried moderator with identifying and financial details). Very generous of Dr Bob to give his time free, and pay for the server time.
3. Dr Bob provides a safe and focussed setting for us to use. Its moderated, continuosly and consistently. Which must be a huge ongoing commitment.
There is the quiz at the beginning which makes the 'rules' clear.
He has the forum for challenging/discussing the boundaries, and has it on a separate board which helps leave the other boards to focus on their remit. He keeps monitoring that board and being active as required (endlessly).
4. I use PSB; the board has a nice range of topics- some nitty gritty, others more chatty. It has enough members/posters to keep it active, rather than the feeling of posting into the void which is possible in much quieter boards.
5. There is no issue about where you are in the world, from Dr Bob or other posters.
6. I dont know what its like in other countries, but in UK it can be hard to see a health professional quickly, unless you are actually definitely suicidal (and even then, they dont take you particularly seriously if you dont actually have a history of self-harm).
Seeing the GP who knows me means a wait of about 10 days for an appointment.So some support meantime helps. And fellow posters can be incredibly supportive, wise, and share very practical steps that they have found useful in their own situations. No hierachy- all in it together; no-one claiming extra expertise.
7. The actual site is well laid out and easy to use, which is quite an achievement given the complexity and interactivity. I had never used anything like this before- just email or surfing and reading pages. But after just one glitch, I got the hang of it.
8. Innovation and responsiveness to feedback (if he agrees!) eg adding other subject boards.
9.Email addresses not automatically displayed, as they are on some other interactive sites. Has put me off using another psychological support bulletin boards. There is a risk that someone could do some surfing from an email address and and easily find out who you are. For example, I post with my 'real' name on a work-related discussion list which has publically available archives.
Cons (more or less- some pros too) In no particular order:1. You have to have internet access, and in a situation where its private (my last 2 jobs and local public library and cybercafe all have screens which others can read easily). There can also be time pressures (eg half hour limit at library)
2. Posts inevitability give little information to go on, so messages can sometimes (often?) be misunderstood. Not necessarily in a confrontational sense, but misunderstanding so get replies on a different issue from the 'real' one.
3. Anyone in the world with internet access can read all the posts. This could also be a pro, as it can give people a clear idea of what is available, if they are wondering about joining. But there are lots of nasty people out there too, which can be easy to forget within the (generally) supportive atmosphere on the Boards.
We do well on maintaining our confidentiality, tho- dont give enough info about ourselves to be identified.
4. Its unpredictable if you will get any reply; when, if it will be from someone who understands your message; if it will be helpful. When I am really in crisis, the uncertainty and delay limit the usefulness. But then its not the ONLY route we have- there are also crisis lines (eg the Samaritans),our health profs.
It can also be soul-destroying if you post your problem/issue of considerable concern to you, and get few or any replies and none of them actually supportive.
5. It can be really frustrating that we dont have access to Dr Bob's clinical expertise sometimes(apart from the bit of providing a forum). I appreciate the risk of this turning into an 'ask the doc' type thing, with endless questions about medication. And the inevitable projections on a doctor- whether saviour or villain (financially or drug co or whatever).
Having occasional experts is a very good idea, tho it comes into the ongoing process at the time. So the posts can be moved away from straightforward discussion on their area of expertise.
The pharmaceutical info is maybe the area where professional expertise would be most useful- there is factual info which a pharmacist/psychiatrist will know how to source and also understand the jargon.They can provide a plain language version.
This is different from sharing experiences, where there isnt such a factual knowledge base.
6. There are usually far too many posts for me personally to read them all. Can sometimes loose track of threads. And people; I'm not good at remembering who is who and their issues. Better to have too many than too few,tho.
7. Dont know what happens to people who stop posting. May be like me, when all that happened was I lost home internet access, or could be that someone had commited suicide.
8. It can be very worrying when someone's posts are clearly very distressed and then there is a gap. That anxiety about someone's health can be very draining, particularly when it goes on repeatedly from one or more people.There was one particular day I can remember being really worried all day about a poster whose last post was desperate. Not that we can actively intervene, but you care about them. That's one of the reasons I have taken a break sometimes- come back when I am having problems again.
Not particular pro or con:
Its a curious situation; sharing the most personal thoughts and feelings with complete strangers who may be half way round the world.I've realised I have set myself the 'task' of giving a completely comprehensive list of features, which is getting to be v hard work!
Fi
Posted by Squiggles on November 6, 2004, at 13:29:20
In reply to Pros and cons, posted by Fi on November 6, 2004, at 11:10:17
That's very thoughtful Fi.
One of your points interests me very much:
- what happens to people who are desperate,
and maybe never heard of again?The paradox of internet help is that the really
sick may have less access than the not so sick;
unless a friend of theirs writes for them,
and asks a question.Who are the Samaritans, btw?
Squiggles
Posted by MKB on November 6, 2004, at 15:21:19
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 18:21:29
I can't help but be alarmed that you are taking Effexor XR. My own response to withdrawing even after taking a small dose for four weeks was so severe, that I don't think I could have survived anything more serious.
If you do decide to get off it, don't do it without warning loved ones so you can get their support and help. <www.petitiononline.com/effexor/>
I know this probably doesn't belong here, but I couldn't remain silent.
Posted by Fi on November 7, 2004, at 16:39:02
In reply to Re: Pros and cons, posted by Squiggles on November 6, 2004, at 13:29:20
Hi Squiggles (I do like that name!)
> - what happens to people who are desperate,
> and maybe never heard of again?
>
> The paradox of internet help is that the really
> sick may have less access than the not so sick;
> unless a friend of theirs writes for them,
> and asks a question.Very true- I really noticed the lack of easy access to the internet when I was an in-patient. There was a library that had it, but it was a bus ride or 20 minute walk away, then a wait and not private. There was a PC with internet access in a small room that was kept locked. I chatted with one of the other patients how it would have been good to have access to it, for emailing our friends as well as (for me) Psychobabbling. I expect that is common- has anyone had internet access within a psychiatric unit? Was it easy to access/equipment working/cheap or free? Were there limits on how you could use it or the sites you could see? I must say that I would be uncomfortable in an inpatient unit alongside disturbed men who were surfing violent porn everyday..
I think it is very much a reality that people will just disappear off the boards, sometimes after sending v distressed messages. There was one poster who committed suicide; we only knew this as there was someone else trustworthy who actually knew her and what had happened. There may have been others- we just dont know. We can hope that they got better and moved on from these boards. But we can, and will, never know. And need to live with that.
And if someone posts saying they are the friend (or relative) of a poster, we have no way of knowing if that's actually true, unless the poster has already mentioned them in some way. Even then we cant be sure (someone else malicious could have read that the poster had a brother called Ian, say, and use that in making the case that they are the brother).
Anyway, it boils down to having contact with someone in distress and then having absolutely no idea what happens to them.
> Who are the Samaritans, btw?
Started off many years ago as a source of confidential support from highly trained volunteers. They provide face-to-face, phone, text, and email support. UK and Republic of Ireland service; of course, there are other crisis services in other countries (see www.suicide-helplines.org ).
More about Sams:
http://www.samaritans.org.uk/or their FAQ at http://www.samaritans.org/talk/questions.shtm
Fi
PS Dr Bob:sorry if I should have been doing something with double arrows. I can never remember how to do it, and also expect people to be internet savvy enough to copy and paste a url into their browser...
Posted by Squiggles on November 7, 2004, at 17:53:06
In reply to Re: Pros and cons, posted by Fi on November 7, 2004, at 16:39:02
The Good Samaritans sound great Fi - i was
very releaved to see that they are not
religiously sponsored.I guess the more developed the country,
the more likely it is to have internet
service in hospitals. It's the way
of the world right now. We should consider
ourselves privileged with this kind of
service.Troubled and poor regions have so many
problems that internet chat about your
medical condition is a luxury. You're
lucky to have a medic to treat you there. I heard the sorry news that Doctors Without Borders are evacuating Iraq.Maybe the internet will spread to those
regions. Some people have the means and
are resourceful enough to do that -- e.g.
I just heard a story of a physicist,
who started a company ADAPTIVE EYEWARE,
to provide eye glass lenses filled with
water and distribute them to poor populations
free or really cheap.Think President Bush could get some
capital together and scientists to work
on projects like that ? :-}Well, enough of that.
Squiggles
Posted by Fi on November 8, 2004, at 14:52:12
In reply to Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 15:51:52
Health profs could learn a from these boards. In finding the words and way of saying them that will be meaningful, honest and supportive for people in distress. Of course, people vary a lot. And something about shared experience wouldnt make sense from a health prof.
It would need a bit of work which would probably need Dr Bob or equivalent. As it would need some picking thru the posts and there is a lot of repition, and also lots of posts that wouldnt be relevant. The best way of identifying the posts that were useful for people would be to work back from the 'thanks a lot for that post' to the post that the person was referring to.
That would be ideal, but even some browsing of the posts could give health profs some idea of what we go thru, plus how we can support each other. And hopefully show that at least some of us with psychological problems are actively fighting and trying our best to cope, rather than passive victims. And just how awful our experiences are.
Neat match with their knowledge of risk assessment, conventional diagnosis, and psychopharmacology, and adding to what they say re coping.
Fi
Posted by Poet on November 8, 2004, at 14:56:15
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups » Poet, posted by MKB on November 6, 2004, at 15:21:19
Thanks for the warning. So far I've had good experiences with it, but with a dose this high I know that withdrawl will be awful if or when I have to go through it. I'll check out the site.
Thanks for caring.
Poet
Posted by Poet on November 8, 2004, at 14:58:46
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Poet on November 8, 2004, at 14:56:15
Posted by alexandra_k on November 8, 2004, at 16:11:06
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by annamaynot on November 2, 2004, at 8:55:32
I have found that babble gives me the opportunity to practice responding rather than reacting to others. Because we aren’t face to face and we write rather than speak we have the opportunity to really think about our posts before hitting ‘submit’. Not that I think about them as much as I should sometimes, but I guess that we all do have that opportunity.
I have learned a lot from Babble. About validating others. About patience (students board), tolerance (faith board), forgiveness, and I suppose I have a constant struggle with rules / limits – especially understanding the civility rules. I don’t really have many interpersonal skills around conflict resolution and so I think it is good for me to learn how to deal with conflict appropriately in a more thoughtful setting, and hopefully it will become second nature and will generalise back to real time conversations.
There does seem to be quite a bit of conflict on Babble. Maybe it is inevitable given the size and nature of the group, or maybe not – I don’t know. I avoid conflict in the real world because I associate it with physical violence and verbal abuse. But physical violence and verbal abuse aren’t things that I have to worry about with Babble so I guess it is a relatively safe setting for me to get some exposure to conflict and hopefully learn some skills around conflict resolution.
Posted by trucker on November 9, 2004, at 16:36:01
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by MKB on November 2, 2004, at 22:22:08
i found this web site to be helpful.. i was prescribed a new med.. lexapro and had been taking it and didn't know what to expect. i had side effects that i didn't realize they were side effects. in fact i didn't know what they were so i researched it and came apon this site and i found that i was put at ease because it was all part of the lexapro beginnings. i was worried that i needed locked up cause i thought i was getting sicker.. i have been on lex for a year and a half or more.. and i like it. had i not found this site i would of drove my therapist nuts with questions and expectations.
trucker
Posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2004, at 23:25:27
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by trucker on November 9, 2004, at 16:36:01
I like Babble because nobody stares at my scars or my deformed feet.
After a while people get used to it, but when I first meet people, or when they first meet me in summer, I can see their eyes wander...
It is pretty obvious they are self inflicted.
It is a constant source of humiliation for me.
Posted by trucker on November 10, 2004, at 8:07:47
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2004, at 23:25:27
what happened to your feet? and i agree with you about being in a safty zone.. which is great when you are having issues with public. as for me i had a problem with shopping and various other public things i seem to have social anxiety amonst other things.. i am better than i was. thanks to communication on babble.. there were time when i needed companionship but couldn't leave the house. and i needed to talk desperately.. and a therapist can only spend so much time a visit with ya.. we need more .. and i am glad for babble. thank GOD for babble.. we can fit in with those in the same boat and know that we aren't alone..
trucker
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////> I like Babble because nobody stares at my scars or my deformed feet.
>
> After a while people get used to it, but when I first meet people, or when they first meet me in summer, I can see their eyes wander...
>
> It is pretty obvious they are self inflicted.
> It is a constant source of humiliation for me.
Posted by trucker on November 10, 2004, at 8:15:22
In reply to Re: Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 19:01:29
i also like babble because if i am headed for trouble people monitor us.. not only dr-bob but the friendships we make here and if we are in danger of hurting ourselves we are kept in check by the people here. and told to seek help asap.. and if we don't well there is ways to contact the officials to get help for those that are in danger..that makes me feel more secure.. esp since someone CARES!!!
trucker
Posted by trucker on November 10, 2004, at 8:19:20
In reply to Stranger in a strange land, posted by annamaynot on November 5, 2004, at 7:34:28
here we are equal and not looked at like we need to be locked up.. we can feel somewhat normal, and cared about and not be treated like we have cooties, or not be accepted by a clique.. here we help each other get well , remind ourselves where we came from and where we are going.. THANKS DR-BOB!!
trucker
Posted by trucker on November 10, 2004, at 8:24:33
In reply to Re: Stranger in a strange land » annamaynot, posted by trucker on November 10, 2004, at 8:19:20
people see warning signs here that help us to seek immeiate help when they are present
trucker
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2004, at 22:06:06
In reply to Help inform professionals about online groups, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 15:51:52
> Follow-ups posted to this particular thread during the next 2 weeks will be considered.
OK, thanks to all of you for participating, your feedback is very much appreciated.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 14, 2004, at 1:17:04
In reply to Re: thanks!, posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2004, at 22:06:06
> OK, thanks to all of you for participating, your feedback is very much appreciated.
FYI, here are the "slides" I presented last month:
http://www.dr-bob.org/talks/wpa04
Sorry, I had to leave a lot out. Any comments?
Bob
Posted by trucker on December 14, 2004, at 14:09:42
In reply to Re: slides, posted by Dr. Bob on December 14, 2004, at 1:17:04
well put DR-BOB.. i myself am glad to be a part of babble.. for when you have social anxiety and don't do well i public at least you can have contact with the outside world.. thanks for being there for us and watching out of us... and stop the abuse or put downs that occur.. thanks!
trucker
Posted by annamaynot on December 14, 2004, at 20:34:59
In reply to Re: slides, posted by trucker on December 14, 2004, at 14:09:42
The study was interesting. It was very comfortable, for lack of a better word. A nice little niche to cozy into without having to worry if I was smiling too much or if I would trip over myself. No one staring. Comfortable indeed.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.