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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
Let's ignore that Depression came first for me. I have found myself in a trap of sorts... benzos don't seen to help me through anxious situations anymore. What they do do is make me feel okay with avoidance. I wonder if I've developed avoidant pd... everything scares me. Things that are no logical threat at all give me terrible anxiety. Like calling to find out how much I owe comcast. What threat is that to me? I owe them the money. I spend hours agonizing over confronting each fear, then when I do something, I'm exhausted. If I don't treat my depression and anxiety now, it'll get worse. But I wonder if years of suffering have permanently wired me to be phobic. It used to be that benzos helped me to do things. Now they make it less hard not to. I wish the government would identify those of us with potential to get back to contribute to society and put up in a boot camp or something run by psychologists. I don't want a lifetime of hanging my head low and sleeping to avoid life, obsessively searching the internet for cures, only to discover that there is none. Maybe if I just confront my fears I'll be able to have them not wear me out, with time. This has been suggested in books. If true it's not going to be an easy fix. I hate anxiety.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 18, 2011, at 22:41:45
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
"Things that are no logical threat at all give me terrible anxiety. Like calling to find out how much I owe comcast. What threat is that to me? I owe them the money. I spend hours agonizing over confronting each fear, then when I do something, I'm exhausted"
God, that sounds so familiar, I think we're birds of a feather
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2011, at 23:59:08
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
Zonked exactly the same for me buy can't make phone calls either, be alone, or drive. But I can leave on my bike knowing someone here when get back. 35 years worked well the last what the last six it's been this way and keep going down? Don't get it? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 19, 2011, at 0:00:10
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 18, 2011, at 22:41:45
Three birds of a feather now lets colloberate. Phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on August 19, 2011, at 1:02:49
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
You and me are very similar. I read your post and couldnt help but not feel what your feeling. Buy anyways. This is what you can do: you can enter a program for mental health issues mainly dealing with fear. Test your self. Journal. Write what your feeling and record it down. Fear can cause anxiety and anxiety can degrade the quality of life. Take your benzos. Go for walks. Call people and tell them whats going on. Talk to your counselor. Get many counselors if you can and tell them your dealings with fears. I'm very sorry you have to go through this. There is a program called Teen Challange that you can google and it will confrount some of your problems. Post here. Talk to people. Don't let your fear control you. You need medication but don't let yourself be dependent on it because that leads to addiction. My benzos where taken away and I have to live everyday with out medication I need, but I'm a recovering addict.
Write stories, do exercise, get pro active. Your worth it.
Matt
Posted by morgan miller on August 19, 2011, at 4:01:21
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
How do you do on SSRIs?
I do think therapy-cognitive behavior, individual psychodynamic, and group psychodynamic-is absolutely necessary for the greatest amount of long term reduction in anxiety along with psychiatric treatment.
Then there is exercise(I prefer the intense stuff followed by a meditative stretch), yoga, meditation, and diet(paleo-like is best IMO).
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2011, at 5:41:22
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 18, 2011, at 22:41:45
> "Things that are no logical threat at all give me terrible anxiety. Like calling to find out how much I owe comcast. What threat is that to me? I owe them the money. I spend hours agonizing over confronting each fear, then when I do something, I'm exhausted"
MDD and BD depressions are inhibiting upon behaviors that require social interaction. Under these conditions, it is difficult to assert oneself. I think this is the product of a biological behvioral inhibition and a psychological reaction to the genuine challenge to communicate effectively while depressed.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2011, at 5:46:12
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by SLS on August 19, 2011, at 5:41:22
> > "Things that are no logical threat at all give me terrible anxiety. Like calling to find out how much I owe comcast. What threat is that to me? I owe them the money. I spend hours agonizing over confronting each fear, then when I do something, I'm exhausted"
>
>
> MDD and BD depressions are inhibiting upon behaviors that require social interaction. Under these conditions, it is difficult to assert oneself. I think this is the product of a biological behvioral inhibition and a psychological reaction to the genuine challenge to communicate effectively while depressed.I do think that exposure therapy can help create permanent change. However, this change is achieved best in the absence of depressive and anxiety disorders. Both pharmacological and psyhological strategies work well together.
Having said that, for some people, the behavioral inhibition resolves completely upon remission from depression or anxiety.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2011, at 7:33:15
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
I find myself avoiding things like phone calls too, even if I have no conscious awareness of being anxious about them. It's more like dread or a magnetic repulsion.
Exposure has definitely been found to work. However, it's my understanding that it needs to be done carefully in order to avoid further traumatization and added anxiety.
Posted by morgan miller on August 19, 2011, at 9:25:32
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by SLS on August 19, 2011, at 5:46:12
> > > "Things that are no logical threat at all give me terrible anxiety. Like calling to find out how much I owe comcast. What threat is that to me? I owe them the money. I spend hours agonizing over confronting each fear, then when I do something, I'm exhausted"
> >
> >
> > MDD and BD depressions are inhibiting upon behaviors that require social interaction. Under these conditions, it is difficult to assert oneself. I think this is the product of a biological behvioral inhibition and a psychological reaction to the genuine challenge to communicate effectively while depressed.
>
> I do think that exposure therapy can help create permanent change. However, this change is achieved best in the absence of depressive and anxiety disorders. Both pharmacological and psyhological strategies work well together.
>
> Having said that, for some people, the behavioral inhibition resolves completely upon remission from depression or anxiety.
>
>
> - ScottI agree, just taking care of the depression and anxiety for the most part pretty much resolves the inhibition issue in most cases.
I still think it's important to try to address possible psychological/emotional factors to help prevent inhibitory behavior and anxiety/depression from being as much of a problem in the future.
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 19, 2011, at 10:46:01
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by morgan miller on August 19, 2011, at 9:25:32
hey. I have somewhat similar problems. All I can say is...medicate, but don't overdo it (too many meds, in my experience, can block progress from other treatment modalities) and then pursue therapy, good diet, supplements (if you want to), self-help, and, yes, exposure to what provokes anxiety.
That's just my take on it.
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2011, at 12:51:12
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Christ_empowered on August 19, 2011, at 10:46:01
The key thing is to be able to use logic circutry instead of fear circutry.
the problem with benzos is that they supress the fear circutry but don't enhance the logic circutry.
take your benzo, but then add something that will give you the umph to desire to overcome your fears.
Linkadge
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 19, 2011, at 18:56:45
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
For myself I can say that exposure hasn't worked. I have had a lot of it. I guess I mean exposure to socially demanding situations. I still have A LOT of social anxiety.
That being said, if I do manage to avoid for a certain amount of time the anticipation anxiety is ridiculous.
Posted by Phillipa on August 19, 2011, at 20:07:54
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution? » Zonked, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 19, 2011, at 18:56:45
Didn't work for me either expose myself daily for years on end. When benzos worked was fine. Oh well Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2011, at 21:36:11
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution? » Zonked, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 19, 2011, at 18:56:45
There are some situations which are intrinsically fearful. The key is not to always eliminate the fear. Wanting the fear to shut off will not work because it necessarily requires focusing on the fear, not how to adress it - like wanting to shut off pain, not tend the wound. Oftentimes fear should be there, but it should be kept in tune by the ability to adapt to the situation, so that the fear is kept in perspective. In many anxiety disorders, its not that the fears are necessarily bigger, its that the adaptive capacity is hampered, thus letting the fear get out of proportion. The key is to find ways to adress the fear in a way that actually leads to resolution.
For instance, prior to entering university, I was terified about upcoming courses, workloads, demands. However, I used the summer prior to look up upcoming courses and study ahead. Did it eliminate all anxiety...of course not, but it did strenthen the circutry that could control the fear and put it to use. If I had just chalked up the "fear" as irrational, and one which shouldn't be there, thus necessating long term benzo use, I really wouldn't have been in the better position.
Do not fear the unknown, find a way to make it known.
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on August 20, 2011, at 13:19:55
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
What you describe does not sound to me like a psychiatric problem, though it makes itself obvious in psychiatric ways. What it looks like is an inability for your body to handle stress...any and all stress...no matter how small. The body has some rather spectacular stuff going on the allows us to deal with stress. It sounds to me like yours isn't working.
I disagree with your comment about obsessively searching the internet for cures only to discover there are none. Well, the obsessive part, yeah, I think we all do that or have done that. It comes with the territory no matter what the disease. But the cure part....I think you are wrong. There are cures. Well, let me back up, some diseases or problems can never be cured....but they can be greatly improved. Quality of life is the goal. We can't turn the clock back to the healthy carefree days. That just isn't reality. Life isn't that way. Many diseases aren't that way.
I do completely understand how all the info on the net can be overwhelming, which worsens the whole situation because then you become paralyzed and don't do anything at all, for simple lack of knowledge, lack of direction, or fear of ingesting anything besides food. Been there, done that, very familiar with that whole concept. It's ok.
But you have to take steps forward. No cure or improvement is going to happen if you don't. That is guaranteed.
Based on what little I know, what is in your post, I would start by aiming at the adrenal regulating plants, also called adaptogens. There are some good ones. In my own experience with them, the top 3 are rhodiola, eleuthero, and ashwaganda. Dosing is tricky with all of them....for example rhodiola is stimulating at low doses and can worsen anxiety, psychosis, etc, but is calming at higher doses. That's kind of scary...say you take a small dose to start with because you are afraid of the unknown, and it goes really bad, and then you are supposed to take a higher dose???? Wow, that's scary. But with rhodiola that's exactly what you want to do so as to get into the calming range and out of the stimulant range. The other herbs have their own little quirks as well. If you want something that is just naturally calming and good for adrenals and stress control and healing of the whole works, then I would go for ashwaganda. There are others, these are just the ones I personally found worthy. Many things are made to look like the next greatest miracle on the net....and I try them...but only those three actually met or surpassed what was said about them.
Lemon balm, valerian, passionflower, skullcap....a combo of any 2 or 3 of these is far better than any benzo.
I wish I could suggest a med to help with your problems, but if I am reading the situation correctly pretty much all of them will ultimately make the whole thing worse not better, with the lone exception maybe of parnate.
Posted by Chris O on August 21, 2011, at 13:10:54
In reply to Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution?, posted by Zonked on August 18, 2011, at 21:19:09
Zonked:
I'm right there with you in terms of the anxiety symptoms. One of my favorites is avoiding cashiers in grocery stores and other places after assessing their "threat level." For me, it all revolves around my inability to "keep up," speedwise, with conversing and interacting. I, too, am too exhausted by my anxiety to make much of an effort. I don't know about the boot camp idea. I just wish one of these meds would work and help me. I'm in the fourth week of my Viibryd trial, upped the dose to 60mg and it's just not happening. I don't expect much to change in the next two weeks, so, blah, another failed SSRI trial.
Chris
Chris
Posted by Lepus on August 23, 2011, at 21:14:38
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution? » Zonked, posted by Chris O on August 21, 2011, at 13:10:54
I'm exactly like you. I just got out of the hospital. I'm on Nardil now and will be continuing ERP therapy, which does work for panic and for anything on te anxiety disorder spectrum, particularly OCD.
Maybe there is a therapist near you who will help with this therapy? Well-trained therapists are hard to find.
But I learned this week that exposure really is the long-term solution. You (and I) have to learn to sit with the panic and eventually, all the panic will reduce. I'm really tired right now since I just got out of the hospital today so I'm not explaining this well. But, definitely see if you can find a therapist who uses ERP.
Posted by Lepus on August 23, 2011, at 21:18:45
In reply to Re: Anxiety: exposure the only permanent solution? » Zonked, posted by Chris O on August 21, 2011, at 13:10:54
If you can, look into Rogers Memorial Hospital in Wisconsin. They deal with horrible anxiety disorders. I was just there. Your insurance might cover residential treatment. Not sure what insurance you have, if any.
Just throwing ideas out there.
This is the end of the thread.
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