![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by alchemist on November 8, 2005, at 15:14:04
In reply to Re: MAOIs and olive oil?, posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2005, at 7:40:11
And to think that she's been avoiding it unnecessarily for nearly 20 years!
I discovered this website and found all sorts of posts about people on MAOIs eating mozzarella, beer, and other forbidden foods.
It seems her doctor was more strict than most. For example, for all these years, she's been avoiding all beans except green beans. He told her she couldn't have lentils, kidney beans, black beans, etc. Now I'm reading that only fava beans and broad beans are forbidden. She was also told not to eat "exotic" fruits such as mango and kiwi. I haven't been able to find any information on this at all, though. Oh, and she was forbidden to eat pork of any kind. Anyone heard of these restrictions?
Of course, I keep finding things like soy sauce and sour cream on the forbidden list, and those are things she *does* eat!
Thanks for all your help.
My biggest fear, though, is telling her, 'Sure, you can eat this!' and then having her keel over dead.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on November 9, 2005, at 8:24:34
In reply to MAOIs and olive oil?, posted by alchemist on November 7, 2005, at 15:37:31
I take 90mg/day phenelzine. MAOI diet restrictions are rediculously overblown.
I have broken just about every rule including tap beer (I am not endorsing my lifestyle, keep in mind), and only had a mild reaction ONCE to a sauce heavy in fermented soy. The only things I do not eat:fermented soy products, air-dried sausages/beef jerky, "stinky" aged cheeses, brine from pickled herring (blech!), caviar (risk of spoilage too great), banana peels (yuck), tap beer from dive bars
That list works for me. In terms of drugs, I have used sensible dosages of d-amphetamine, cocaine (even intravenous cocaine posed no problems, though I can't say that I've done THAT enough for my experience to mean anything), and even MDMA (although only around 1mg/kg instead of 2mg/kg). I will not touch highly adrenergic sympathomimetic amines like ephedrine, PPA, and pseudoephedrine, however. DXM (Robitussin) is also a big no-no, as is Demerol (meperidine, pethidine). I suppose also SSRI drugs are highly contraindicated, but why would I want to take one of those?
In general, people are needlessly scared away from MAOIs, though all users of them should carry around an emergency antihypertensive--just in case. IV phentolamine is the best.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2005, at 8:52:52
In reply to Re: MAOIs and olive oil? » alchemist, posted by Chairman_MAO on November 9, 2005, at 8:24:34
> In general, people are needlessly scared away from MAOIs...
I disagree with the conclusion, notwithstanding my full belief in the truthfulness of the personal information just provided us.
The "cheese reaction" can kill. Individual sensitivity to tyramine (while under an MAOI) varies by about 100-fold. What one person eats with impunity, with reckless abandon, is a fatal dose for another. The difficult aspect of taking an MAOI is in learning about your tyramine sensitivity. Everybody's safety threshold lies in a different place. Rather than blindly living in fear, that tyramine threshold must be determined by experiment. If a person taking an MAOI finds that they are highly reactive to small doses of tyramine, they ought to discontinue the drug.
All users should carry with them an emergency anti-hypertensive agent, just in case.
Just a little of my opinion....
Lar
Posted by alchemist on November 11, 2005, at 14:56:00
In reply to Re: MAOIs and tyramine sensitivity » Chairman_MAO, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2005, at 8:52:52
I seriously doubt my mother's going to be shooting up cocaine anytime soon, but thanks for the info. (Or doing any other recreational drug, for that matter.)
I think that she must not have a high sensitivity to tyramine. She eats soy sauce all the time.
Even so, I suppose it will be best to start out slow trying new things.
Posted by SLS on November 12, 2005, at 6:55:27
In reply to Re: MAOIs and tyramine sensitivity » Chairman_MAO, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2005, at 8:52:52
> > In general, people are needlessly scared away from MAOIs...
>
> I disagree with the conclusion, notwithstanding my full belief in the truthfulness of the personal information just provided us.
>
> The "cheese reaction" can kill. Individual sensitivity to tyramine (while under an MAOI) varies by about 100-fold. What one person eats with impunity, with reckless abandon, is a fatal dose for another. The difficult aspect of taking an MAOI is in learning about your tyramine sensitivity. Everybody's safety threshold lies in a different place. Rather than blindly living in fear, that tyramine threshold must be determined by experiment.An additional confounding factor is that someone can find a contraindicated food that they eat on a daily basis for quite awhile, only to one day suddenly react badly to it.
> If a person taking an MAOI finds that they are highly reactive to small doses of tyramine, they ought to discontinue the drug.
I'll have to think about this. This might be a risk versus benefit situation. It may be the only drug for which an otherwise refractory depression responds to.
- Scott
Posted by katia on November 18, 2005, at 15:47:27
In reply to Re: MAOIs and tyramine sensitivity, posted by SLS on November 12, 2005, at 6:55:27
Howdy folks-
I'm getting ready to start Furoxone for a parasite. (it's an MAOI). Do any of you drink tea or coffee/caffienated? I'm worried about this. Also, is white wine ok? My pdoc said some are and some aren't. It varies on the wine. Any, any body found that are ok?
i'm also having to come off of Paxil for this. Very scary....
Thanks-
Oh, I had to laugh when you said you doubt your Mom will be doing any cocaine anytime soon. :-) LOL
Posted by Jedi on November 20, 2005, at 2:43:12
In reply to Re: MAOIs and tyramine sensitivity, posted by katia on November 18, 2005, at 15:47:27
> Howdy folks-
> I'm getting ready to start Furoxone for a parasite. (it's an MAOI). Do any of you drink tea or coffee/caffienated? I'm worried about this. Also, is white wine ok? ...Hi Katia,
Everyone is different but the food restrictions on MAOIs are way overblown. I drink lots of coffee, lots of black brewed tea, and also white wine. No problems with any of them.The best source for actual MAOI food restrictions I’ve found:
http://www.drbob.org/babble/20010814/msgs/75408.html This list was compiled by Elizabeth; “the guru of treatment resistant depression”. In my experience with MAOIs, I’ve found it to be very accurate.
Good luck with your treatment,
Jedi
Posted by Jedi on November 20, 2005, at 2:52:45
In reply to Re: MAOIs and tyramine sensitivity » katia, posted by Jedi on November 20, 2005, at 2:43:12
> The best source for actual MAOI food restrictions I’ve found:
> http://www.drbob.org/babble/20010814/msgs/75408.htmlMAOI diet short list
Posted by Elizabeth on August 17, 2001, at 13:43:12Hi. A couple of people have requested that I repost the dietary restrictions that I followed while taking MAOIs. Please don't take this as gospel; it's what worked for me and it's based on some fairly meticulous library research (I can provide a reading list for anyone who's interested). A lot of the "menus" that get handed out by pharmacies, hostpials, doctors, etc. are not very accurate because they are out of date and place extreme and unnecessary restrictions on what you can eat. This results in a number of problems. Many people are scared off by long, intimidating lists of restrictions. In other cases, a person will discover that s/he can "cheat" on some of the foods (the ones that really shouldn't be on the list) and will therefore take the entire list less seriously. There are some things that you definitely should avoid, but they are relatively few.
So, here it is -- a list of some things that I felt merited avoidance, and others that I felt were safe (and had no problems with, of course):
WINE is fine. Some people may get histamine-related headaches from it and think they are having a hypertensive episode when they are not.
BOTTLED BEERS are usually fine (American and Canadian ones are the best studied).
TAP BEER should be avoided.
Most AGED CHEESES are out. Of note, the mozzarella generally used on most pizzas has been found to be okay. So unless it's some weird exotic pizza with sharp cheeses (feta, cheddar, fontina) it should be okay to eat pizza. (In general, cheeses described as "sharp" are the most dangerous ones.) Ricotta cheese, cottage cheese, cream cheese, and "pasteurized process cheese food" (American cheese -- the cheesiest kind) are okay as well. In regard to the intermediately-aged cheeses, I personally had no problem with jack or brie in moderation. I would be careful if you're going to try this, though, and it's not something I'm willing to say is definitely safe.
OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS, such as milk, yogurt, and sour cream, are generally safe as long as they are fresh.
SOY FOODS are controversial: one sample of soy sauce was reported to have quite a lot of tyramine in it, but there aren't any documented interactions. My experience has been that a little bit of soy sauce is okay. I would avoid other soy products, such as soy milk and tofu. The Taiwanese dish called "stinky tofu" is probably right out. < g >
Similarly, SAUERKRAUT has been found to contain a large amount of tyramine in some analyses, but there aren't any reactions documented that were associated with sauerkraut.
PROTEIN-CONTAINING FOODS that have passed the expiration date or that may have been stored improperly should be avoided. Fresh milk, meat, etc. are okay. One exception that I make, just because there have been so many problems reported with it, is LIVER; it seems possible that the proteins in liver are especially readily broken down to tyramine (perhaps they include more tyrosine than other proteins do, or perhaps the bacteria that turn tyrosine into tyramine are fond of liver).
Certain AGED MEATS, such as salami, bologna, and some sausages, may be problematic. Err on the side of caution. Some telltale words to look for are "aged," "smoked," "air-dried," and "fermented."
PICKLED HERRING itself isn't a problem, just don't eat the brine (yuck!).
To many people's relief, CHOCOLATE is fine. (If my experience with carb cravings on phenelzine is any indication, it's fine in *huge* amounts!)
Some miscellaneous peculiar foods, such as FAVA BEAN PODS and BANANA PEELS, also cause problems. Shouldn't be a major issue for most people. Watch out for Middle Eastern cuisine, which sometimes contains fava beans. MISO SOUP and other Oriental soup stocks have also been reported to cause problems.
I hope that people find this helpful. As I said, I can provide a list of references if anyone is interested.
-elizabeth
Posted by katia on November 20, 2005, at 3:23:41
In reply to Sorry: Trouble with link, MAOI food restrictions, posted by Jedi on November 20, 2005, at 2:52:45
Hi Jedi-
Thanks for your messages. I have to say, it takes balls to write what Elizabeth wrote. I don't think I could err against medical judgment and give advice to people concerning something that REALLY could be death related. Hats off to her if what she says is accurate. But how are we to know? Honestly? No way would I take her advice after all I've read. I appreciate her efforts to relieve the strict dietary restrictions, but I can not go on someone named elizabeth's recommendations over many doctor's when it comes to life or death choices over food. Espe. b/c I'm only going to be on Furoxone ten days. I wish I could trust her recommendations b/c it's a helluva easier esp. in the holiday season.
Anyone else have input or experiences here?
Katia> > The best source for actual MAOI food restrictions I’ve found:
> > http://www.drbob.org/babble/20010814/msgs/75408.html
>
> MAOI diet short list
> Posted by Elizabeth on August 17, 2001, at 13:43:12
>
> Hi. A couple of people have requested that I repost the dietary restrictions that I followed while taking MAOIs. Please don't take this as gospel; it's what worked for me and it's based on some fairly meticulous library research (I can provide a reading list for anyone who's interested). A lot of the "menus" that get handed out by pharmacies, hostpials, doctors, etc. are not very accurate because they are out of date and place extreme and unnecessary restrictions on what you can eat. This results in a number of problems. Many people are scared off by long, intimidating lists of restrictions. In other cases, a person will discover that s/he can "cheat" on some of the foods (the ones that really shouldn't be on the list) and will therefore take the entire list less seriously. There are some things that you definitely should avoid, but they are relatively few.
>
> So, here it is -- a list of some things that I felt merited avoidance, and others that I felt were safe (and had no problems with, of course):
>
> WINE is fine. Some people may get histamine-related headaches from it and think they are having a hypertensive episode when they are not.
>
> BOTTLED BEERS are usually fine (American and Canadian ones are the best studied).
>
> TAP BEER should be avoided.
>
> Most AGED CHEESES are out. Of note, the mozzarella generally used on most pizzas has been found to be okay. So unless it's some weird exotic pizza with sharp cheeses (feta, cheddar, fontina) it should be okay to eat pizza. (In general, cheeses described as "sharp" are the most dangerous ones.) Ricotta cheese, cottage cheese, cream cheese, and "pasteurized process cheese food" (American cheese -- the cheesiest kind) are okay as well. In regard to the intermediately-aged cheeses, I personally had no problem with jack or brie in moderation. I would be careful if you're going to try this, though, and it's not something I'm willing to say is definitely safe.
>
> OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS, such as milk, yogurt, and sour cream, are generally safe as long as they are fresh.
>
> SOY FOODS are controversial: one sample of soy sauce was reported to have quite a lot of tyramine in it, but there aren't any documented interactions. My experience has been that a little bit of soy sauce is okay. I would avoid other soy products, such as soy milk and tofu. The Taiwanese dish called "stinky tofu" is probably right out. < g >
>
> Similarly, SAUERKRAUT has been found to contain a large amount of tyramine in some analyses, but there aren't any reactions documented that were associated with sauerkraut.
>
> PROTEIN-CONTAINING FOODS that have passed the expiration date or that may have been stored improperly should be avoided. Fresh milk, meat, etc. are okay. One exception that I make, just because there have been so many problems reported with it, is LIVER; it seems possible that the proteins in liver are especially readily broken down to tyramine (perhaps they include more tyrosine than other proteins do, or perhaps the bacteria that turn tyrosine into tyramine are fond of liver).
>
> Certain AGED MEATS, such as salami, bologna, and some sausages, may be problematic. Err on the side of caution. Some telltale words to look for are "aged," "smoked," "air-dried," and "fermented."
>
> PICKLED HERRING itself isn't a problem, just don't eat the brine (yuck!).
>
> To many people's relief, CHOCOLATE is fine. (If my experience with carb cravings on phenelzine is any indication, it's fine in *huge* amounts!)
>
> Some miscellaneous peculiar foods, such as FAVA BEAN PODS and BANANA PEELS, also cause problems. Shouldn't be a major issue for most people. Watch out for Middle Eastern cuisine, which sometimes contains fava beans. MISO SOUP and other Oriental soup stocks have also been reported to cause problems.
>
> I hope that people find this helpful. As I said, I can provide a list of references if anyone is interested.
>
> -elizabeth
>
>
>
>
Posted by Jedi on November 21, 2005, at 0:45:28
In reply to Furoxone » Jedi, posted by katia on November 20, 2005, at 3:23:41
Hi Katia,
Hey, for ten days, I would abide by the most restrictive diet information I could find. Ten days: skip the wine, skip the coffee, skip the tea, skip the chocolate, everything. Stopping and starting the Paxil is going to be a lot tougher than any diet restrictions for such a short time. Remember to abide by the reduced tyramine diet before and after using Furoxone. Ask your doctor for the proper amount of time and follow his instructions.Most all over the counter cold remedies are a no no with MAOIs. The only thing I can take is quaifenisin, an expectorant, and diphenhydramine HCL, an antihistamine.
I'm a lifer on Nardil. The information that Elizabeth gave out was for people like me with treatment resistant depression and long term users of MAOIs. It was my mistake for giving you that information out of context. Elizabeth posted to this board for several years. She knew more about treatment resistant depression than any PDOC or MD I have ever talked too. Google some of her posts, I think you will find it interesting. Please do not blame her for me quoting information out of context.
Take care,
Jedi
Posted by katia on November 21, 2005, at 12:49:40
In reply to Re: Furoxone » katia, posted by Jedi on November 21, 2005, at 0:45:28
Hey Jedi-
Thanks for your information. I'm not blaming anyone. I appreciate someone thinking outside the box.
Do you follow her recommendations? My pdoc said 14 days after my last dose, I have to follow the diet.
I know that migraine meds are out. Do you know if tylenol, ibuprofen, or aspirin are ok? Benzos ok? I suffer from migraines and with the w/drawal from Paxil and the no caffeine, I see one coming.
Anti-histamines are out too? No benadryl?Anyone know?
Thanks!
Katia> Hi Katia,
> Hey, for ten days, I would abide by the most restrictive diet information I could find. Ten days: skip the wine, skip the coffee, skip the tea, skip the chocolate, everything. Stopping and starting the Paxil is going to be a lot tougher than any diet restrictions for such a short time. Remember to abide by the reduced tyramine diet before and after using Furoxone. Ask your doctor for the proper amount of time and follow his instructions.
>
> Most all over the counter cold remedies are a no no with MAOIs. The only thing I can take is quaifenisin, an expectorant, and diphenhydramine HCL, an antihistamine.
>
> I'm a lifer on Nardil. The information that Elizabeth gave out was for people like me with treatment resistant depression and long term users of MAOIs. It was my mistake for giving you that information out of context. Elizabeth posted to this board for several years. She knew more about treatment resistant depression than any PDOC or MD I have ever talked too. Google some of her posts, I think you will find it interesting. Please do not blame her for me quoting information out of context.
> Take care,
> Jedi
Posted by Jedi on November 21, 2005, at 19:47:20
In reply to Furoxone and tyramine free diet » Jedi, posted by katia on November 21, 2005, at 12:49:40
> I know that migraine meds are out. Do you know if tylenol, ibuprofen, or aspirin are ok? Benzos ok? I suffer from migraines and with the w/drawal from Paxil and the no caffeine, I see one coming.
> Anti-histamines are out too? No benadryl?
>
>
Hi Katia,
Everybody is a little different, that's why I recommend you follow a strict diet for such a short time. If you have a good caffeine habit going, I would try to cut down over a few days. I quit caffeine cold turkey once, the 2nd day I had the worst headache of my life.I use all of the medications you list above with no problem. I don't get migraines, thank goodness. I take 1mg of clonazepam daily and have taken much higher does while on Nardil. I drink four or five cups of coffee per day. All of the pain killers you list are fine along with some of the narcotics. Straight Benadryl (diphenhydramine HCL) has never been a problem for me. And yes, Elizabeth's list is completlely accurate for me.
Get well soon,
Jedi
Posted by katia on November 22, 2005, at 0:33:47
In reply to Sorry: Trouble with link, MAOI food restrictions, posted by Jedi on November 20, 2005, at 2:52:45
Hi,
When you say narcotics, do you mean vicoden and the like?You drink 4-5 cups a day!? Wow. I'm terrified of quitting. I'm switching to a cup of black tea tomorrow for the next few days until I have stop altogether from caffeine.
Where are you?
Katia
Posted by Jedi on November 22, 2005, at 2:35:25
In reply to Re: Sorry: Trouble with link, MAOI food restrictions » Jedi, posted by katia on November 22, 2005, at 0:33:47
> When you say narcotics, do you mean vicoden and the like?
Yes; Vicodin(hydrocodone & acetaminophen), Percocet(acetaminophen & oxycodone) and codeine are all fine. If you need these, you will probably have to do some research to show your MD that they are OK. Especially if he does not work with MAOIs and believes everything he reads in the PDR. Any narcotic that potentiates serotonin is out of course. Demerol(meperidine) with MAOIs will probably give you the long dirt nap!
>You drink 4-5 cups a day!? Wow. I'm terrified of quitting. I'm switching to a cup of black tea tomorrow for the next few days until I have stop altogether from caffeine.
Yes, I use caffine as a mild stimulant with Nardil. Nardil causes afternoon somnolence in a lot of people. I have no side effects from caffeine with Nardil. When I tried Parnate, it was so activating for me that I could not drink coffee.
> Where are you?
I live in Washington State.
Jedi
Posted by katia on November 28, 2005, at 22:35:29
In reply to Re: Furoxone » katia, posted by Jedi on November 21, 2005, at 0:45:28
Hi all,
I have a question: I am so scared and clueless. I know all the normal dietary restrictions for MAOIs, i.e. aged cheeses and meats, soy, pickled things.I walked through the store today afraid to buy anything and I am hungry. I need to eat, but don't know what to.
my question:
Dried coconut, roasted buckwheat, quinoa (a whole grain), mayo, organic free range chicken stock in the liquid form without yeast extract, or butter?Is all of the above safe? Does anyone know?!
Thanks!
Katia
Posted by katia on November 28, 2005, at 22:40:56
In reply to MAOI diet question - HELP!, posted by katia on November 28, 2005, at 22:35:29
p.s.
pumpkin and pumpkin seeds and white vinegar ok??
Posted by Jedi on November 29, 2005, at 1:07:41
In reply to MAOI diet question - HELP!, posted by katia on November 28, 2005, at 22:35:29
> Hi all,
> I have a question: I am so scared and clueless. I know all the normal dietary restrictions for MAOIs, i.e. aged cheeses and meats, soy, pickled things.
>
> I walked through the store today afraid to buy anything and I am hungry. I need to eat, but don't know what to.
>
> my question:
> Dried coconut, roasted buckwheat, quinoa (a whole grain), mayo, organic free range chicken stock in the liquid form without yeast extract, or butter?
>
> Is all of the above safe? Does anyone know?!
> Thanks!
> Katia
> Also Pumpkin & pumkin seeds?Katia,
Don't stress so much over the diet. It is really pretty easy. I've eaten pretty much everything you've mentioned including chicken of all kinds.(I wouldn't eat the liver; Yech!) Most meat is fine as long as it is fresh. Grains, coconut, mayo are all fine. Most of the tyramine reactions are caused by aged chesse. Here is an article you may find interestig. It is dated but MAOIs have been around for almost 50 years.
Don't stress, you'll be fine.
JediMonoamine Oxidase Inhibitors: Adverse Effects
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.html
Posted by sdb on November 29, 2005, at 9:30:54
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP! » katia, posted by Jedi on November 29, 2005, at 1:07:41
Thanks for sharing information on Nardil.
Unfortunately there are not so much studies of phenelzine and there are a lot of questions left open for many people. If you share your longterm experiences, you help the people who want to treat a disorder.
Nardil was replaced by moclobemide which I consider as a placebo (Roche). They sell the moclobemide because Nardil is too old thus patent rights are no more protected and the phenelzine can be cheaply produced by generic chemical suppliers now. Poorly many pdocs now nothing about phenelzine and they prescribe moclobemide here, from which I have never heard a real success story.
sdb
Posted by katia on November 29, 2005, at 11:25:02
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP! » katia, posted by Jedi on November 29, 2005, at 1:07:41
Thanks Jedi. I already have a pounding headache from the caffeine w/drawal and who knows what from paxil w/drawal and sugar w/drawal and wine w/drawal and good food w/drawal. Ok, I'm feeling sorry for myself. so who knows if I do have a hypertension episode? Isn't it just headache and racing heart? Well, I should be a lot healthier at the end of this month.
Does anyone know about quinoa? Is it high in carbs?
Thanks-
katia> > Hi all,
> > I have a question: I am so scared and clueless. I know all the normal dietary restrictions for MAOIs, i.e. aged cheeses and meats, soy, pickled things.
> >
> > I walked through the store today afraid to buy anything and I am hungry. I need to eat, but don't know what to.
> >
> > my question:
> > Dried coconut, roasted buckwheat, quinoa (a whole grain), mayo, organic free range chicken stock in the liquid form without yeast extract, or butter?
> >
> > Is all of the above safe? Does anyone know?!
> > Thanks!
> > Katia
> > Also Pumpkin & pumkin seeds?
>
> Katia,
> Don't stress so much over the diet. It is really pretty easy. I've eaten pretty much everything you've mentioned including chicken of all kinds.(I wouldn't eat the liver; Yech!) Most meat is fine as long as it is fresh. Grains, coconut, mayo are all fine. Most of the tyramine reactions are caused by aged chesse. Here is an article you may find interestig. It is dated but MAOIs have been around for almost 50 years.
> Don't stress, you'll be fine.
> Jedi
>
> Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors: Adverse Effects
> http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.html
>
>
Posted by Jedi on November 29, 2005, at 17:44:55
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP!, posted by katia on November 29, 2005, at 11:25:02
> Thanks Jedi. I already have a pounding headache from the caffeine w/drawal and who knows what from paxil w/drawal and sugar w/drawal and wine w/drawal and good food w/drawal. Ok, I'm feeling sorry for myself. so who knows if I do have a hypertension episode? Isn't it just headache and racing heart? Well, I should be a lot healthier at the end of this month.
Katia,
Sorry you're not feeling well. Caffeine withdrawal alone would make me ill for a day or two. Lucky for me, I rarely get headaches. So, if I do get one, I immediately take my blood pressure. Since I'm on MAOIs long term, I purchased a monitor to have with me. My guess would be you are suffering from withdrawal from caffeine and Paxil. I've read that coming off Paxil can be a major problem for some people. If you get worried, I would go to the clinic that your doctor works, tell them the story, and have a nurse take your BP. If you feel it's an emergency, call 911 or get to the nearest ER to see if your BP is high.
Take care, you'll be fine.
Jedi
Posted by katia on November 29, 2005, at 21:05:28
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP! » katia, posted by Jedi on November 29, 2005, at 17:44:55
I appreciate your concern. I think my BP is fine. I'll go to Long's drugstore tomorrow and get it tested. I'm generally on the low side as it is. THis feels like a typical migraine exacerbated by the triple combo therapy drugs I'm on. I threw up in the sink today! I couldn't make it anywhere else while I was cooking. (I know - gross). The smells and thought of food... My cat went running.
So your caffeine headaches only last a day or two? I can handle that, but no more. I feel like I'm being tortured and I can't take migraine meds. If this last for the full ten days, I'll need ECT to jolt me out of the depression that will come when I can't run around and do things. Hurts when I stand, hurts when I lie, the house is a mess.
I have w/drawn from Paxil before and it was much worse than this time around.Do MAOIs generally give a sedating feeling? I feel sedated somewhat.
What is your dx and rx?
Katia
> > Thanks Jedi. I already have a pounding headache from the caffeine w/drawal and who knows what from paxil w/drawal and sugar w/drawal and wine w/drawal and good food w/drawal. Ok, I'm feeling sorry for myself. so who knows if I do have a hypertension episode? Isn't it just headache and racing heart? Well, I should be a lot healthier at the end of this month.
>
> Katia,
> Sorry you're not feeling well. Caffeine withdrawal alone would make me ill for a day or two. Lucky for me, I rarely get headaches. So, if I do get one, I immediately take my blood pressure. Since I'm on MAOIs long term, I purchased a monitor to have with me. My guess would be you are suffering from withdrawal from caffeine and Paxil. I've read that coming off Paxil can be a major problem for some people. If you get worried, I would go to the clinic that your doctor works, tell them the story, and have a nurse take your BP. If you feel it's an emergency, call 911 or get to the nearest ER to see if your BP is high.
> Take care, you'll be fine.
> Jedi
Posted by Jedi on November 29, 2005, at 21:33:01
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP! Jedi (nm), posted by sdb on November 29, 2005, at 9:30:54
...
> Nardil was replaced by moclobemide which I consider as a placebo (Roche). They sell the moclobemide because Nardil is too old thus patent rights are no more protected and the phenelzine can be cheaply produced by generic chemical suppliers now. Poorly many pdocs now nothing about phenelzine and they prescribe moclobemide here, from which I have never heard a real success story.
>
> sdbHi sdb,
When I first read about Moclobemide I thought, "what a great drug". Because of the reversible affect on MAO, there would be minimal food restrictions, a less dangerous MAOI. However after several years and watching peoples responses on this board and the clinical studies, I changed my mind. For some people it may be a wonder drug, but for the treatment resistant(which is most everbody here) it just does not provide the needed results.Moclobemide is not approved by the FDA in the US, probably because of the cost and legal hurdles involved. It can cost over $250 million to get through all of the trials to have a medication approved. This is a big financial risk. There are quite a few efficacious foreign developed medications that will never be approved in the US.
Even though phenelzine is off patent, Nardil is the only brand that is available in the US. I assume this is for financial reasons also. Not such a huge market for dangerous medications, as the MDs watch their malpractice insurance go out of sight.
In my opinon, however, the irreversible MAOI-Nardil is the medication of choice for treatment resistant atypical depression and social anxiety. There are a lot of us, atypical depression is actually very typical. Take care and good luck.
Jedi
Posted by Jedi on December 1, 2005, at 23:20:48
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP! » Jedi, posted by katia on November 29, 2005, at 21:05:28
...
> Do MAOIs generally give a sedating feeling? I feel sedated somewhat.
>
> What is your dx and rx?
> KatiaHi Katia,
Hope you're feeling better. I think each MAOI is somewhat different. Some are stimulating, some are calming, some are mixed. Parnate was a stimulant for me, I had to take seroquel with it to get any sleep. Some people report that Parnate makes them tired. Everyone reacts a little differently. Nardil is mostly relaxing to me. However I have had periods of hypomania on it. I have also had late afternoon sleepiness on Nardil. This is a common side effect.My diagnosis is treatment resistant atypical double depression, with generalized and social anxiety(now, that's a mouthful). The dysthymia and social anxiety have been with me most of my life. My first major depression hit when I was forty. Nardil is the only med that has worked for me. I currently take 75mg daily along with 1mg of clonazepam, plus about 3 grams of fish oil.
Be Well,
Jedi
Posted by katia on December 1, 2005, at 23:45:46
In reply to Re: MAOI diet question - HELP! » katia, posted by Jedi on December 1, 2005, at 23:20:48
Has anyone experienced this on any? I am furoxone and have gotten more sore than I normally am in my shoulder blades and hips. What is this an indication of?
Jedi-
Do the meds work for you? Is that mouthful of a dx healed?
Do you still take seroquel? I do at night 12.5mg.
Katia
Posted by Jedi on December 2, 2005, at 2:09:46
In reply to Joint pain/muscle soreness on MAOI?, posted by katia on December 1, 2005, at 23:45:46
> Has anyone experienced this on any? I am furoxone and have gotten more sore than I normally am in my shoulder blades and hips. What is this an indication of?
>
> Jedi-
> Do the meds work for you? Is that mouthful of a dx healed?
> Do you still take seroquel? I do at night 12.5mg.
> KatiaKatia,
I've never taken furoxone, but joint pain is listed as one of the side effects that should be reported to your doctor.My major depression and social anxiety is in remission with my medication. I haven't taken Seroquel for several years. That med would just knock me out. I had minimal side effects from it. When I need a sleep aid now, I just take diphenhydramine HCL(Benadryl). I have been off of Nardil twice, in both cases the major depression returned within a couple of months. I will probably always have a low level of dysthymia even while on medication. It just always seems to be there. We play the cards we are handed. Some people have it a lot worse than me. I know because I've been there. The psychic pain of severe depression is among the worse pain there is.
Take care,
JediSide effects of furxone:
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Uses/0,3915,290%7CFurazolidone,00.html#sideEffects
Side effects that you should report to your prescriber or health care professional as soon as possible:
•chest discomfort or pain
•difficulty breathing
•fever
•flushing
•joint pain
•low or high blood pressure
•rash
•seizures (convulsions)
•weakness
•vomitingSide effects that usually do not require medical attention (report to your prescriber or health care professional if they continue or are bothersome):
•headache
•nausea
•brown color to the urine
This is the end of the thread.
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