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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Spriggy on February 11, 2005, at 20:29:22
I am seeing a new doc on Tuesday but talked with one at my church at how I have felt since taking the Wellbutrin and Lexapro.
In the past two weeks specifically, I have totally blacked out. Passed out flat on the floor yesterday and now have a nasty, blue/purple bruise across my face.
I have weird "head" moments where I feel bizarre. Almsot unreal, like distance and perceptions are off. I've had a few mild hallucinations.
My pupils get REALLY small during these weird, head fog moments.
Plus I am having horrible depression.
So the doctor said, " Have you been checked for seizures? Sometimes Anti depressents can trigger that??"
never really thought much of that. Never had a seizure before so I didn't realize that's what THIS feeling could be.Any ideas?
I only took Wellbutrin a few days, took Lexapro almost 6 weeks. Been off for 10 days now and still doing this.
Posted by bart on February 11, 2005, at 22:01:59
In reply to AD's caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by Spriggy on February 11, 2005, at 20:29:22
wellbutrin does increase the risk of seizure in succeptible people
Posted by HappyGirl on February 12, 2005, at 0:28:54
In reply to AD's caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by Spriggy on February 11, 2005, at 20:29:22
Hi:
The Wellbutrin causes a mild form of 'Epilepsy'(I can't remember the term for this, tho') *if* you're predisposed, ... even in the family(runs family). Besides this, it sounds to me like the Lexapro might be still in your system as reading 'just 10 days off. Or, WB and Lexapro simply does have a 'bad' mix that causing 'more' aggrevation in your problem, Bp. Besides this, it's VERY dangerous to take ONLY anti-depressant without a mood-stabilizer, as seeing your have Bipolar.Recalling in your previous posts, you certainly need 'Mood-Stabilizer,' a first choice seems the Lithium due to your tendency of 'manic' episode, such as 'psychotic episodes' in one of your previous posts. Also, Depakote that is more for Bp depression, but works well for 'mixed episodes.' Those 'two' M.S.s are a good route for your Bp.
In the meantime until Tuesday when you see the pdoc., ... it might be wise for you NOT to take any A.D.s (including WB), since the WB giving you 'black-out,' however if you could reach your doc., even ER, you'd better to seek a help ASAP, preferably BEFORE Tuesday.
H.G.
Posted by SLS on February 12, 2005, at 9:34:24
In reply to AD's caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by Spriggy on February 11, 2005, at 20:29:22
I agree with the others regarding the potential for Wellbutrin to induce seizures. Do you have any Neurontin laying around?
I don't see any interactions between the two drugs that would exaggerate the blood levels of either. Like the others said, maybe you have a predisposition to seizures and the Wellbutrin is expressing it.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 12, 2005, at 9:50:42
In reply to AD's caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by Spriggy on February 11, 2005, at 20:29:22
Why the temporal lobe?
- Scott
Posted by HappyGirl on February 12, 2005, at 16:30:53
In reply to Re: AD's caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by HappyGirl on February 12, 2005, at 0:28:54
Hi:
One thing I just forgot to mention, ... if you are 'Epilepsy/Seizure tendency,' then 'anti-seizure meds.,' either Depakote or Tegretol might be a good choice in terms of 'mood-stabilizer' selection. However, I can NOT be 100% sure to say this combo.(Depakote, WB and plus Lexapro) works good in your case.In my previous response, ... I did suggest the 'Lithium,' however this M.S. may NOT be suitable to you although the Lithium has a VERY good reputation among people with Bp, I or II, over-all.
In any cases, .... you certainly need a 'good' help before the things become out of control. Bipolar Disorder is said to be one of most 'serious mentail illnesses' next to Shizophrenia.
H.G.
Posted by Spriggy on February 12, 2005, at 23:30:16
In reply to Re: ADDENDUM:// caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by HappyGirl on February 12, 2005, at 16:30:53
Happy Girl,
I'm actually not bipolar. I've never been diagnosed with it.. My father is bipolar, and his mother (my grandmother) was but bipolar has been ruled out for me.The pdoc did say that sometimes SSRI's will "trigger" an agitated mania of sorts similar to that in bipolar's, so maybe that's what you are referring to?
Thanks for the help.
* I will be getting a CAT scan this week and seeing a neurologist. Hopefully that will bring about some answers for all these blacking out spells.
Posted by HappyGirl on February 13, 2005, at 1:05:34
In reply to Re: ADDENDUM:// caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by Spriggy on February 12, 2005, at 23:30:16
Hi:
NOW, I read your reply to my post as to Bp dx. while I was replying your another post, below.In my case,...I was labelled Bp II AFTER 5-7 days' Zoloft, one of 'potent' SSRIs med. back in 1997-1998. Then, actually, a majority of Bpers are dxed after taking one of SSRIs. Even, some of pdocs. rx'd an SSRI if he/she suspected your having Bp deep inside in your brain/predispostion. This theory and analyzation might suprise you in one sense if you're quite new to the community of mental illness. But, it's VERY true. Most of Bpers got a 'formal' name/label after taking an SSRIs. However, we shouldn't put a blame on SSRIs which rx'd by the pdoc., ... rather it's a relief while the saddness along with 'fear' lingering after got a name, Bp. The relief is the pdoc. is able to search and find a right med. combo. in order to help you out properly. Then, actually, it's a 'good' turn on which you'are able to concentrate on your med. regimen legitimately and decidedly.
In my experience on this, Bp journey, ... it's NEVER easy, frankly on both, financially and emotionally. The toll is quite high, truthfully. But, my family and all people who knows me well are all offerring me 'eternal' support along with 'heart-felt' encouragement.
The first and two years were most difficult time for me, a 'newly-dx Bp,' however, with a proper med. comb. rx'ed by a RIGHT pdoc., I've been quite stabilized for well over two years, now. Then, my advice, ... if you're formally dxed with Bp, try to stay on the right truck which include a 'daily med. regimen,' 'exercise,' and anything which would help you feel improved. Oh, forgot to mention, also the psycho-therapy I got in the beginning was a 'big' help since I was so devastated for dx, Bp.
Please keep us posted about your progress.
p.s.)I'm SO touched one of your posts, ... two young sons, one of who is autism who needs you BADLY.
H.G.
Posted by linkadge on February 13, 2005, at 10:40:17
In reply to Re: ADDENDUM:// caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by HappyGirl on February 13, 2005, at 1:05:34
I think it is absolutely nonsence for a doctor to diagnose bipolar based on the fact that an SSRI makes you agitated/activated.
Here's the truth. Not everybody reacts to drugs the same way. For instance. My father is the most stable person alive. If he drinks coffee it can make him very agitated, anxious, insomniac, agrivated etc. He is much more sensitive to coffee than I am.
I can drink loads of cofee and remain normal. Does this mean my father is bipolar ?? Of course not. It is quite simple. Some people are more sensitive to chemicals than others.
If you took a person who was doing well on 150mg of wellbutrin, and you give him 900mg. He might behave a little strange. Become irritable, angry, anxious etc. Some people would reach the same way to 150 mg.
And there is another reason that this method of diagnosis is rediculous. Some people will act very strangly on one antidepressant, and perfectly normal on another.
Ex. Effexor made me *very* irritable. Angry, mood swings, insomnia, panicky, agigated etc. But celexa gave me no problems for 5 years (other than the fact that it pooped out)
To diagnose bipolar you need to do a HECK of a lot more probing as a doctor, than just to see how one chemical makes them react.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 10:59:25
In reply to SSRI bipolar diagnosis is NONSENCE, posted by linkadge on February 13, 2005, at 10:40:17
>To diagnose bipolar you need to do a HECK of a lot more probing as a doctor, than just to see how one chemical makes them react.
I agree 100% with you Linkadge, some doctors are getting way too casual with the bipolar diagnosis these days. Lol, isn't anyone 'just' depressed anymore!
Ed.
Posted by SLS on February 13, 2005, at 12:18:15
In reply to Re: ADDENDUM:// caused temporal lobe seizure?, posted by Spriggy on February 12, 2005, at 23:30:16
> I'm actually not bipolar. I've never been diagnosed with it.. My father is bipolar, and his mother (my grandmother) was but bipolar has been ruled out for me.
Bipolar disorder is highly heritable. If your parental diagnoses are accurate, my guess is that you too are bipolar, regardless of whether or not mania or hypomania have yet been recognized. I bet if you were to be interviewed properly using the life-charting method of the NIMH, bipolarity would be observed. There will be a formal description in the future DSM that will describe a subtype of bipolar disorder for which depression is its only presentation.
It is often bipolarity that is responsible for the difficulties that are encountered when treating depression as if it were of the unipolar variety. I would suggest thinking about using mood stabilizers in addition to antidepressants. Trileptal would probably be a good place to start for you.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 12:55:03
In reply to Re: ADDENDUM:// caused temporal lobe seizure? » Spriggy, posted by SLS on February 13, 2005, at 12:18:15
Hi Scott,
>Bipolar disorder is highly heritable. If your parental diagnoses are accurate, my guess is that you too are bipolar, regardless of whether or not mania or hypomania have yet been recognized.
I agree that it is possible that Spriggy may be diagnosed with bipolar disorder in the future. I think we should be cautious though because her reaction to Lexapro sounded more like akathisia than mania/mixed mood.
>It is often bipolarity that is responsible for the difficulties that are encountered when treating depression as if it were of the unipolar variety. I would suggest thinking about using mood stabilizers in addition to antidepressants. Trileptal would probably be a good place to start for you.
Spriggy hasn't described the symptoms that she had before taking Lexapro in any detail. I'm not even sure whether she was depressed. I don't know the reason why Lexapro was prescribed.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by HappyGirl on February 13, 2005, at 15:21:15
In reply to Re: SSRI bipolar diagnosis is NONSENCE » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 10:59:25
Hi:
In my case, my pdoc. evidently had 'enough' proof I had Bp, even though my intial problems were mostly consisted with depressive episodes, ... never had 'hypomania' symptoms.Then, I totally agree with SLS, ... if you have Bp trait either/both of your parents' sides, you are mostly likely dxed with Bp, not 'unipolar depression.'
I had Bipolar trait, in my father's side, his grandmother who was instituted in the psycho./insane ward where she spent several years and eventually died.
In my guess, ... most of pdocs. rx'd an SSRI in order to dx. as accurately and quickly as possible, because some of M.I. folks do NOT tell everything you have in the brain. If this would happen, the delay on your prognosis along with 'chaos,' such as 'hospitalization' is unavodable. For that reason, I feel VERY grateful my pdoc. found my 'true' problem, Bp, as fast as possible. Otherwise, I might have ended up at a psycho.ward. that must be most dreadful place for me to imagine.
On my very first trip to the pdoc.'s office, I was maily asked whether or not I have mental illness in my family, rather getting a script. On my next trip that took place within five days, I got an SSRI. Afterwards I got the script and took an SSRI for about a week. However,I was dxed with Bp. Since then, my journey of Bp started.
H.G.
Posted by spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 21:17:22
In reply to Re: SSRI bipolar diagnosis is NONSENCE, posted by HappyGirl on February 13, 2005, at 15:21:15
OKay.. well since i'm creating such a debate here (LOL) I should clarify some things.
I had 3 panic attacks prior to be prescribed the medication. I have not dealt with depression before until this episode.
I have been "down" but never been depressed. I can say for certain that I am definitely now in full blown depressed state.
I have never displayed any manic symptoms before. Sleep fine, responsible, stable emotionally, etc.. UNTIL the medication.
Am I bipolar seems to be the question? Well, I spent time with the pdoc discussing it and after her evualation of me, she said "no."
At this point, if I AM BP, I won't be in denial. I just want help. These mood swings, depression, and agitation are about to drive me to the brink of insanity if I"m not already there.
BP is only on my father's side of the family; my dad is BP and my paternal grandmother also was before she committed suicide.
So either I truly am BP and just haven't been diagnosed or displayed symptoms until now, OR the medication has induced it or created such symptoms.
I don't know but I will be happy to finally talk to some doc that has a clue what to do with me at this point.
Posted by linkadge on February 14, 2005, at 11:33:40
In reply to Re: SSRI bipolar diagnosis is NONSENCE, posted by spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 21:17:22
Mood stabalizers are more benign than antidepresants. Stick a person on a mood stabalizer and the outcome is much more predictable than with an AD.
Linkadge
Posted by olysi79 on February 14, 2005, at 19:12:44
In reply to SSRI bipolar diagnosis is NONSENCE, posted by linkadge on February 13, 2005, at 10:40:17
I tend to agree with you on this. I think Doctors hsould use it mroe as a "gauge" to speak. Often times, with BP, they will feel good for awhile on the SSRIS, then really bad, but then back to good, etc... the emotions are a rollercoaster. Stress also aggravates these cyclesn. Other people get terrible mixed manias when they go on an SSRI. This is not just nervousness, it's through the roof, and can also be a sign of bipolar disorder, or at least somewhere on the spectrum.
Here's my thoughts... people jsut need to quit labeling themselves (or allowing themselves to be affected by labels) and just try meds until they get it right.
> I think it is absolutely nonsence for a doctor to diagnose bipolar based on the fact that an SSRI makes you agitated/activated.
>
> Here's the truth. Not everybody reacts to drugs the same way. For instance. My father is the most stable person alive. If he drinks coffee it can make him very agitated, anxious, insomniac, agrivated etc. He is much more sensitive to coffee than I am.
>
> I can drink loads of cofee and remain normal. Does this mean my father is bipolar ?? Of course not. It is quite simple. Some people are more sensitive to chemicals than others.
>
> If you took a person who was doing well on 150mg of wellbutrin, and you give him 900mg. He might behave a little strange. Become irritable, angry, anxious etc. Some people would reach the same way to 150 mg.
>
> And there is another reason that this method of diagnosis is rediculous. Some people will act very strangly on one antidepressant, and perfectly normal on another.
>
> Ex. Effexor made me *very* irritable. Angry, mood swings, insomnia, panicky, agigated etc. But celexa gave me no problems for 5 years (other than the fact that it pooped out)
>
> To diagnose bipolar you need to do a HECK of a lot more probing as a doctor, than just to see how one chemical makes them react.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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