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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alienatari on January 9, 2005, at 1:17:12
Hey all. Is there a reliable amineptine source available? The usual places i have seen no longer exist so im wondering if its impossible to get now?
thanks
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2005, at 17:48:23
In reply to Amineptine source, posted by alienatari on January 9, 2005, at 1:17:12
> Is there a reliable amineptine source available?
Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alienatari on January 10, 2005, at 3:10:51
In reply to Re: medication that hasn't been approved » alienatari, posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2005, at 17:48:23
Dr Bob, I was not posting anything illegal nor was I talking about illegal importation. For starters I am in Australia, not America, and I am pretty sure Amineptine is not illegal here.
I was just curious as to whether it is available, legally, for people to import. I was wondering if there were any sources (as in Drug Companies that my Psychiatrist could contact directly), legal of course and with a doctors perscription, to import to Australia as there use to be a source from South America but it has since dissapeared. The reason I was asking is because my Psychatrist was looking at importing a medication for me for my depression as in Australia this is legal with a perscription as I am sure it is in many countries. And to my knowledge, I dont think amineptine is illegal in Australia, it just never made its way out here.
Anyway, I have no need for this anymore after talking to my Psychatrist today he is either going to import Stablon (Tianeptine, the drug related to Amineptine) from France or EmSam (when its released, if its released) from America.
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2005, at 12:42:28
In reply to Re: medication that hasn't been approved, posted by alienatari on January 10, 2005, at 3:10:51
Hello!
I have no idea whether amineptine is legal in Australia but........
Up until recently amineptine was available in Portugal under the brand name Directim. I do not know whether it is still manufactured. The manufacturer is called Azevedos, here is their email address....
Hopefully someone at the company speaks English!! Please tell us what you find.
Another company called Teravix, also makes/used to make amineptine. Here is their contact info.......
Teravix, Lda
Av Antonio Augusto de Aguiar 128
1050 Lisbon
Portugal
Fax: +351 21 3122090Amineptine (Survector) was available in Brazil up until recently- I'm not sure whether it still is. Survector was/is manufactured by Servier, amineptine is not listed on their website. If you want to contact them to see if they still make it, here are thier details.......
Servier, Braz.
Servier Do Brasil Ltda
Rua Mario Piragibe 23
Lins de Vasconcelos
20720-320 Rio de Janeiro
RJ
Brazil
Telephone: +55 (0) 21 25995000
Online: http://www.servier.com.brI hope you find out whether anyone still makes amineptine- please tell us what you find.
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 11, 2005, at 5:13:14
In reply to Re: Amineptine » alienatari, posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2005, at 12:42:28
I'm pretty sure that the brand name Survector was discontinued by the company as early as 2000.
Also I'm nearly certain the WHO at the time recommended that it would be off- market due to abuse cases,and that CND and INCB put it on narcotic schedule
I think that Amineptine is no longer manufactured "legally" in any part of the world..I'm surprised about Brazil's case.
I also, think that in due time Tianeptine will follow the same fate as Amineptine due to the increasing cases of abuse.
It seems that , even though amineptine main action is dopamine reuptake inhibition,and Tianeptine's is Serotonin acceleration,both medication seem to increase dopamine at higher doses not unlike amphetamine,and I'm pretty sure it is the case since I experimented with both and found them at very high dose highly stimulating.
Dark Horse.
Posted by lars1 on January 11, 2005, at 10:33:37
In reply to Re: Amineptine, posted by darkhorse on January 11, 2005, at 5:13:14
> I'm pretty sure that the brand name Survector was discontinued by the company as early as 2000.
>
> Also I'm nearly certain the WHO at the time recommended that it would be off- market due to abuse cases,and that CND and INCB put it on narcotic schedule
>
> I think that Amineptine is no longer manufactured "legally" in any part of the world..I'm surprised about Brazil's case.
>
> I also, think that in due time Tianeptine will follow the same fate as Amineptine due to the increasing cases of abuse.
>
> It seems that , even though amineptine main action is dopamine reuptake inhibition,and Tianeptine's is Serotonin acceleration,both medication seem to increase dopamine at higher doses not unlike amphetamine,and I'm pretty sure it is the case since I experimented with both and found them at very high dose highly stimulating.
>...and so once again, we're not allowed to have an antidepressant that would actually make us feel good, as opposed to just non-suicidal.
L
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 3:37:56
In reply to Re: Amineptine, posted by darkhorse on January 11, 2005, at 5:13:14
Hi!
Isn't it weird that we're not allowed amineptine yet amphetamines are on the market?
I'm not sure whether amineptine is still available in Brazil, it has probably been discontinued.
Please can you describe the effects of tianeptine in more detail, how similar was is to a stim? What dose did you take? Any side effects?
Do you think that amineptine is less likely to worsen anxiety than classic psychostimulants? Which stimulants have you found to cause the least/most anxiety?
Sorry for all the questions! Have a look at this.....
Encephale. 2003 Sep-Oct;29(5):456-9.
Does addiction to antidepressants exist? About a case of one addiction to tianeptineWe report on a tianeptine dependence lasting for eighteen months in a 42 year old patient. The patient had a previous history of addiction to opiates, amineptine, cocaine and alcohol. He also had a family history of addiction to alcohol and opiates. Tianeptine was prescribed for a major depressive disorder. The patient alleged a "flash sensation" like with heroin since the very first doses with a physical and psychological well-being sensation, better psychomotor performances and transient mood elation. His addiction to tianeptine was immediate and heavy. The positive reinforcement faded away after one month and a total dependance took over, with physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms when doses were not renewed. After two months of treatment, the daily consumption of tianeptine was of 90 tablets. The patient was hospitalised to treat both the addiction to tianeptine and the ongoing major depressive disorder. He was taking 240 tablets daily. In the literature, reports of addictions to antidepressants are scarce and most of them involve agents with amphetamine-like properties, including amineptine and tranylcypromine. Other reports involving other antidepressant agents, including amitriptyline, fluoxetine and tianeptine remain exceptional. Addictions to antidepressants almost exclusively concern patients with a diagnosis of personality disorder and a previous history of drug or alcohol abuse and who are treated for a depressive disorder. Tianeptine, which is devoid of any psychostimulating effect in human (hmmmm, after all they've just said, typical doctors- they just don't listen to patients!) does not seem to have addictive properties apart from the reports of scarce cases.
Best Regards,
Ed.PS. Thank you, you are a great help :-)
Posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 8:36:46
In reply to Re: Amineptine » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 3:37:56
Hi Ed!
> Please can you describe the effects of tianeptine in more detail, how similar was is to a stim? What dose did you take? Any side effects?
The effect was nearly identical to Amineptine in high doses.
The dose was not fixed.I think not less than 3-4 pills 3-4 times a day.The more,the better.
Tianeptine at recommended dose had a placebo effect.I experimented on my own and felt this stimulant effect,and thinking about my Amineptine experience,escalated the dose and felt good.However I stopped later cause I felt I may develope psychlohgical dependence.Stopping "cold Turkey" was no problem at all,no withdrawal and no craving at all.I felt it was much better than ritalin.
Side effects of Tianeptine : none except a very strange "cold eyes" : I felt my eyes cold as if put on cold water or ice???!! Very strange but very tolerable.
>
> Do you think that amineptine is less likely to worsen anxiety than classic psychostimulants? Which stimulants have you found to cause the least/most anxiety?I'm not really sure.When I take any stimulant I do not experience anxiety at all...I can drink lots of coffee without any problem.Stimulants initally make me feel good,energetic,sociable,improve my sleep and happy.But the effect almost always wear off after continued use,and once it happens I stop of fear of escalating dose and getting hooked.The stimulant that had a longer,lasting effect was Fenproporix,and I took it for maybe 1-3 months,and stopped cold turkey,and only withdrawal was an irresistable tendecy to sleep.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Ed.
>
> PS. Thank you, you are a great help :-)
>
You are welcome.Dark Horse.
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 12:23:34
In reply to Re: Amineptine » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 8:36:46
Hello,
Thank you Mr. Darkhorse, you are a great help. Is tianeptine an expensive drug? In what way was it better than Ritalin?
Cold eyes? Very unusual!
In your experience, how do the effects of methylphenidate compare to dextroamphetamine? I am interested because these are the only 2 psychostims available in the UK.... apart from Provigil. Have you ever taken Provigil?
>The stimulant that had a longer,lasting effect was Fenproporix,and I took it for maybe 1-3 months,and stopped cold turkey,and only withdrawal was an irresistable tendecy to sleep.
Fenproporex sounds interesting. Apparantly it is metabolised to amphetamine. What country were you in when you took it? Maybe Mexico or South America! It sounds a bit like Adderall XR!
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 13, 2005, at 6:25:59
In reply to Re: Amineptine » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 12:23:34
Hello ED,
? In what way was it better than Ritalin?I took Ritalin at normal dose (10mg 3 times,I think?) and did not increase dose.Apart from very mild stimulation in the begining, nothing after that except increase in heart rate(Maybe bec of the desipramine+fluoxetine I was having at the time).
>
> In your experience, how do the effects of methylphenidate compare to dextroamphetamine?I never took dextro..
I am interested because these are the only 2 psychostims available in the UK.... apart from Provigil. Have you ever taken Provigil?Isnt Prov = Modafinil? if it is,then I tried it.It is totally a different animal than all other stimulants.I do not even considered it a "stimulant" it did nothing except mild sadness and irritation:I hated it!
>>
> Fenproporex sounds interesting. Apparantly it is metabolised to amphetamine. What country were you in when you took it? Maybe Mexico or South America! It sounds a bit like Adderall XR!Yes.Somewhere in South America.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dark Horse.
Posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 6:39:29
In reply to Re: Amineptine » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on January 13, 2005, at 6:25:59
Hi!
Thanks! Have you ever taken Adderall or any other amphetamines?
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 13, 2005, at 7:58:45
In reply to Re: Amineptine » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 6:39:29
> Hi!
>
> Thanks! Have you ever taken Adderall or any other amphetamines?
>
> Regards,
> Ed.I'll try and remember all stimulants I took :
Fenproporex,Methylphenidate,Pemoline,Ditheylpropion,Mazindol,Fenfluramine,Dexfenfluramine,Phentermine,D-Norpseduephedrine,psudoephedrine,Ephedrine,Guarana,Coca leaves,Caffiene.
I thnk that is all.
Hey Ed,I wrote a thread titled what is antidepressant?
I like to have your opinion on it.Thank you,
Dark Horse.
Posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 8:56:42
In reply to Re: Amineptine, posted by darkhorse on January 13, 2005, at 7:58:45
Hi Adam!
>Hey Ed,I wrote a thread titled what is antidepressant?
I like to have your opinion on it.Just saw it! Will reply soon :-)
Sorry to be a pain but (as always) I have questions!
What did pemoline do? I've heard people say that it's not very effective. It was withdrawn in the UK ages ago, it was called Volital.
Chemically, diethylpropion is simular to bupropion (Wellbutrin). It's not surprising really since they both end in -propion! Did they have similar effects?
Everyone seems to hate ephedrine! Too much peripheral stimulation. Did you like it?
I think mazindol is quite selective as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Did it have pretty much the same effect as other stimulants?
What was phentermine like? You've taken a lot of appetite suppressants. Did they help you to lose the weight that you gained on ADs?!
Did you take Khat or pharmaceutical D-Norpseudoephedrine? What was it like?
How did coca leaves compare with methylphenidate?
Thank you,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 14, 2005, at 4:21:33
In reply to Re: Psychostimulants » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 8:56:42
Hello Eddy:
>
> What did pemoline do? I've heard people say that it's not very effective. It was withdrawn in the UK ages ago, it was called Volital.Pemoline was not such a bad mild stimulant.It was withdrawn at the time I was investing on the drug due to liver damage cases.
>
> Chemically, diethylpropion is simular to bupropion (Wellbutrin). It's not surprising really since they both end in -propion! Did they have similar effects?Yes,I noticed the similarity in the name.However,Diethyl is totally different:it is very much like Phentermine and I stayed on it for much longer time,while Bupropion was a horrible journey for me: nasty stimulation,abnormal thinking,abnormal movements,aggression,irritability,depression.Diehyl does not have any of those disgusting effects.In fact no bad side effects except that the good effects does not last long : increase in concentration and focus,some hyperactivity,mild lack of hunger.
>
> Everyone seems to hate ephedrine! Too much peripheral stimulation. Did you like it?No.
>
> I think mazindol is quite selective as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Did it have pretty much the same effect as other stimulants?I think I read somewhere that it has NE reuptake action.Anyway,it is very mild in its action,and no major side effects,but it made me hungry??
>
> What was phentermine like? You've taken a lot of appetite suppressants. Did they help you to lose the weight that you gained on ADs?!As mentioned Phentermine was very similar to Ditheyl.
All those appetite suppressants did not help a bit with SSRis - induced weight gain.Reduction of food intake and sports did not help either.
The only effective way was to stop the offending SSRi,and I went back to normal weight slowly with no effort.
>
> Did you take Khat or pharmaceutical D-Norpseudoephedrine? What was it like?I took the pharma khat,not the natural one.Again initially it gave good concentration and motivation and mild appetite suppression,but with continued use all those effects diminished.
>
> How did coca leaves compare with methylphenidate?I took Coca leaves like all people in Andean countries do when they get up to the high mountains.It has a bad bitter taste but worked great for high mountains.
>
> Thank you,Dark Horse
> Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 11:54:12
In reply to Re: Psychostimulants » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on January 14, 2005, at 4:21:33
Hi Adam,
Thank you for the information :-)
>Pemoline was not such a bad mild stimulant.
Hmm! Shame it was withdrawn in the UK! Did it have an effect as good as fenproporex?
>Bupropion was a horrible journey for me...
How long did it take for the horrible side effects to appear? I know people take bupropion continuously for depression but I was wondering whether it could be used intermittently for hypersomnia. In your experience, does it reduce sleepiness immediately? I guess I'm hoping that it does and that the nasty side effects take a few weeks to set it!!! I think this is unlikely!
>I think I read somewhere that it has NE reuptake action.
Yes, me too! It's so difficult to get accurate information sometimes!
>Anyway,it is very mild in its action,and no major side effects,but it made me hungry??
I've heard of methylphenidate making people hungry. I suppose it might have made you hungry due to increased activity levels, do you remember if you gained weight! It doesn't sound like a very good appetite suppressant!
Have you ever tried taking memantine (eg. 20mg/day Namenda, Ebixa) in attempt to reduce stimulant tolerance? Do you think you might try it? Look in the p-babble archives.
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on January 15, 2005, at 14:58:07
In reply to Re: Amineptine » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 12:23:34
Hi Adam,
Thank you for the information :-)
>Pemoline was not such a bad mild stimulant.
Hmm! Shame it was withdrawn in the UK! Did it have an effect as good as fenproporex?
>Bupropion was a horrible journey for me...
How long did it take for the horrible side effects to appear? I know people take bupropion continuously for depression but I was wondering whether it could be used intermittently for hypersomnia. In your experience, does it reduce sleepiness immediately? I guess I'm hoping that it does and that the nasty side effects take a few weeks to set it!!! I think this is unlikely!
>I think I read somewhere that it has NE reuptake action.
Yes, me too! It's so difficult to get accurate information sometimes!
>Anyway,it is very mild in its action,and no major side effects,but it made me hungry??
I've heard of methylphenidate making people hungry. I suppose it might have made you hungry due to increased activity levels, do you remember if you gained weight! It doesn't sound like a very good appetite suppressant!
Have you ever tried taking memantine (eg. 20mg/day Namenda, Ebixa) in attempt to reduce stimulant tolerance? Do you think you might try it? Look in the p-babble archives.
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 17, 2005, at 8:38:36
In reply to Re: Various drugs......... to darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 15, 2005, at 14:58:07
Hi Ed
> How long did it take for the horrible side effects to appear? I know people take bupropion continuously for depression but I was wondering whether it could be used intermittently for hypersomnia. In your experience, does it reduce sleepiness immediately? I guess I'm hoping that it does and that the nasty side effects take a few weeks to set it!!! I think this is unlikely!Bupropion gave an immediate insomnia.The other bad effects did not show until few days after,and the insomnia decreased.
.
>
> Best Regards,D. H .
>
>
Posted by ed_uk on January 17, 2005, at 9:22:17
In reply to Re: Various drugs......... to darkhorse » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on January 17, 2005, at 8:38:36
Hello!
Thank you for all the useful information! You're amazing!
What effects did fenfluramine and dexfenfluramine have?
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 18, 2005, at 3:29:53
In reply to Re: Fenfluramine/Dexfenfluramine » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on January 17, 2005, at 9:22:17
Hello Ed
> What effects did fenfluramine and dexfenfluramine have?I'm not sure if both had any effect on me!
They had no noticable stimulant effect,and did nothing for weight,or motivation ,and at that time Dex started to have negative reports as you know which led to its withdrawal.
> Best Regards,D.H.
This is the end of the thread.
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