![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 8, 2004, at 9:38:29
Hi there, thanks for listening.
I have suffered for a very long time with three things.
GENERAL ANXIETY (GAD), SOCIAL ANXIETY, and CHRONIC STRESS.
Personally i believe these three things all started because of a chronic self-esteem issue, however have become such a devstatingly strong part of my life that i make myself unwell on a daily basis.
I imagine i could be labelled a hypochondriac with all of the things i have thought are wrong with me, but regardless of my label, the facts are that the prolonged and severe symptoms caused by the conditions outlined above are causing severe social inadequacy, an inability to function at all on a daily basis and are having negative effects on my physical health.
As an example i have been in hospital once this year suffering from a heart arrythmia which had to be corrected with a drip, but no physical problems could be found, either in blood work or with an echocardiagram etc, so my doctor quite rightly has labelled me with an anxiety problem.
I am ONLY 22.
I cannot be around people without completely closing up and living inside my own head and this results in such anxiety that i make myself physically unwell, although i never have panic attacks interestingly enough, just put too much strain on my body, my symptoms being feeling physically sick and faint, or on the verge of something bad. (thats the only way i can describe it).
After unsuccessful trials with two SSRIs and Effexor (all of which made me feel very ill among other severe side effects, enough to make me feel i definitely dont need serotonin meds), my doctor gave me a two week taper of Librium. (this was about a year ago)
The first two days were the best two days of my life that i can remember and i was in awe of this medication, unfortunately i responded so well that my doctor thought it in appropriate to take the trial any further for fear of abuse if the medication became less effective, as he thought this was just an initial reaction that would fade, some kind of euphoria if you like. (His fear is not groundless because i have a history of depressant abuse, namely alcohol and marijuana, however these were both years ago, and rather than wanting to get high anymore i just want to function.)
Having convinced the doctor that needing relief and normalacy in my life, yesterday the doctor presribed me with 40 mgs of Librium a day on the basis that i can get some relief but when he tells me to stop, i have to stop. (I live in the UK, and he is sticking his neck out with even this little plan).
However while the 40 mgs is the exact same strength that provided me with much relief a year ago, this time round it is not achieving anything near the level of relief that it had done the first time. It is clearing up my physical problems, palpitations, agitation, teeth grinding, over stimulation in my tempral lobes etc etc, however it is not providing the feeling i had originally with my first trial a year ago, when i felt that the emotion of anxiety could never possibly exist.
in effect the physical symptoms of my anxiety seem to be diminishing but my mental ones do not. Im still very anxieous in fact. Again, for example, i was at University today for my first day back and found it just as hard as ever to be around the people in my class even though i trust and like every single one of them. I just have nothing to say, go into my shell and sit in silence, which is such a shame. I also started feeling faint and sick as a direct result. As i sit here alone in my house i feel absolutely fine although i have taken my third librium of the day (i take four lots of ten mgs btw), about an hour early, which may be adding to the fact that i feel ok, but i have no doubts in my mind that if i was in class right now i would be feeling as anxious as i was earlier.
The questions i have to ask are these i guess.
1) does anyone have any thoughts regarding this. Do you think that with the extra year of anxiety i have been through, during which i have become more and more desperate to the point of hopelesness, that my requirement of dose is higher than it was a year ago??
2) Do you think its too early in my treatment to be having doubts (two days in), its just i was under the impression, and especially baring in mind my tremendous response to the same drug a year ago, that the benzos generally work straight away and the relief felt on the first day is an indication of how well the treatment is going to get and its never going to get any better than that. Am i wrong in this thought???
3) Finally does anyone have experience in combining two benzos together, because i understand clonazepam to be the most used on this board with social anxiety, although i doubt there have been many tests using Librium because its a hardly used medication as i understand it, especially in America anyway. Im sure there are issues with toxicity in using two long half life benzos (well drugs in general) on a daily basis, is this a fair assumption??? Would it be worth just losing the Librium and trying clonazepam on its own???
The use of Clonazepam just to let you know would not be acceptable with my doctor. He is angry with me already for managing to talk him into using a benzo at all even if it is only a short term trial (although i reckon if im rsesponsible i can get him be felxible on the length of use), so i would have to buy Clonazepam from the Internet, something i don't fully trust. I have a pretty reliable source for meds but meds from my local pharmacy are much much better than anything i get sent from overseas.
Anyone have any thoughts on the above???I do have to say that i do like the relief the librium gives me for the physical symptoms of generalised anxiety (the daily palpitations and agitation etc), it just feels that its only managing to help with 33% of my problems.
Also i found SSRIs horrible medication that made my social anxiety way way worse and very physically unwell to boot, not to mention the discontinuation which sucks. I understand Benzos have a horrible discontinuation also but i can't live my life like i do without medication, because it doesn't constitute a life and if its a choice between a medication with problems when quitting that helps and a choice between medication with problems quitting that makes me feel ill, i think its obvious which wins.
(I think doctors and preachers (the Internet kind) would also do well to look at the released list of prescription medication proving hardest to stop. Im pretty sure SSRIs lead the way hands down, so having survied the withdrawal od both Paxil and Effexor, i pretty confident i can deal with that of the benzos, although my life sucks so bad, if a benzo can rid me of my issues i have no problem taking it long term. If i have dementia when im 65, ill just have to deal with it then, im certainly not having a life that is on a par with hell just so i dont have memory problems in fourty five years time.)
My i have babbled on down here. Any thoughts on the questions posed though would be oh so welcome. Cheers.
Dan.
Posted by woolav on October 8, 2004, at 13:14:07
In reply to Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 8, 2004, at 9:38:29
Hi Dan, I am sure others will respond to your post as well. Just wanted to say I know where your coming from with your anxiety. I have it the same way. I have heard of the drug you are taking, but like you said, its not used that much in the USA. I was taking xanax for years and liked it alot. Then my pdoc switched me to Klonopin, it has helped with my anxiety and social phobia some. I do take an ssri also. (but thats for depression) But, I had horrible withdrawl effects from the xanax. I felt awlful and i was crying all the time. Anyway, I didnt know that i would have that kind of withdrawl from xanax so I at first blamed my symptoms on the klonopin. So, my pdoc gave me ativan. I took it for about a week or 2. Didnt like it. Had no real anti-anxiety effect on me. So, I began taking ativan during the say and klonopin at night to sleep. But my husband said i shouldnt take 2 benzo's like that. So, I am now only taking klonopin and I think my withdrawl from xanax is over and I feel better now.
Also, I do remember my pdoc saying that alot of times when you go back on a drug you took previously, it doesnt always work the same....
Good Luck to you!!!
Sandy
Posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 8, 2004, at 14:45:09
In reply to Re: Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by woolav on October 8, 2004, at 13:14:07
Thanx for your reply woolav,
Im glad you are feeling better from the Xanax withdrawal, hope all goes well.
Im still confused, so i hope i get a few suggestions. Im new to this web posting stuff and now i wish i hadn't put PLEASE READ on my subject title. I reckon its a bit of a turn off.
Oh well.
Posted by Fred23 on October 8, 2004, at 18:34:54
In reply to Re: Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by woolav on October 8, 2004, at 13:14:07
> So, my pdoc gave me ativan. I took it for about a week or 2. Didnt like it. Had no real anti-anxiety effect on me. So, I began taking ativan during the say and klonopin at night to sleep. But my husband said i shouldnt take 2 benzo's like that.
I have a feeling that doctors tend to prescribe doses of Ativan too low to be effective, and also my experience is that the generic is totally ineffective, anyway.
Posted by ed_uk on October 9, 2004, at 18:01:54
In reply to Re: Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by Fred23 on October 8, 2004, at 18:34:54
sorry daniel, i've never posted on psychobabble before and i think i just sent you babblemail when i intended to post a follow up!
Posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 9, 2004, at 18:18:55
In reply to Re: Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by ed_uk on October 9, 2004, at 18:01:54
Hi there ED,
After doing a little scouting i found that babble gets sent straight to your e-mail adress so i checked and found your message, quite cool i think.
I will get round to answering it tomorrow.
Just quickly though i have considered Nardil, but having gained 80 lbs in a yaer on seroxat and having subsequently lost over a 100lbs by being strict in the two years since being off of it, im loathe to start a med that is almost guaranteed to cause weight gain. There are other critical factors also that i would rather not go into on an open message board. Its certainly in the back of my mind though.
Cheers for your concern.
(By the way, as for the Librium, i do intend to persevere with it, but im already feling the anxiety between doses. Like you say in your mail i may well need a higher dose, but this would not be acceptable to my doctor. He would see it as escalating rather than not prescribing me a high enough dose in the first place and he would run a mile. then a couple more for good measure. Im coming close to resigning myself to my own treatment, unfortunately there are a million and one things that can go wrong with such action so im stuck inbetween a rock and all that.)
Lol, Look at that, i have pretty much touched on all your points in the mail, once i start typing i dont seem to be able to stop.
How are you anyway??? You must be finding things tough if you have found your way to these boards?? Hope you are doing ok!!
Posted by ed_uk on October 9, 2004, at 19:29:00
In reply to Re: Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 9, 2004, at 18:18:55
I also gained weight on seroxat- it increased my appetite and i didn't do any exercise! I couln't have an orgasm on paroxetine at first but to my surprise that side effect went away with time :) In a way it was quite convenient since i've always had premature ejaculation!!
Its quite common for ppl to get anxiety between doses of chlordiazepoxide at first, its very lipid soluble which means it's rapidly re-distributed to fatty tissues after a dose has been taken- this reduces its clinical duration of action during the early stage of treatment despite its long half life. Once the active metabolites have reached a constant level in the blood the effect of the drug should remain constant throughout the day. It can take several weeks to reach this point with librium however, and you might find you never need a dose increase at all.
Personally, my anxiety is relatively under control at the moment. I did try stopping the citalopram a while ago but developed obsessive compulsive disorder so i quickly went back on it.
I've had many types of anxiety in the past( basically ever since i was born i have found something to worry about). I've had social phobia( but not any more), OCD, some unusual specific phobias, depression and an eating disorder which was strongly related to anxiety. I always develop strong physical symptoms with my anxiety such as not being able to speak, eat or write if i start to panic. Thankfully i've been ok during the last few months. I'm doing pharmacy at manchester uni and have just started my second year. I'm still in halls of residance and its been nice to meet the new people.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on October 9, 2004, at 19:52:10
In reply to Re: Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by ed_uk on October 9, 2004, at 19:29:00
Oh, i forgot to mention pregabalin(lyrica).
Now that it's available in the uk do you think you might try it? It's only licensed for epilepsy and neuropathic pain at the moment but a doctor could still prescribe it for anxiety if they felt it was suitable. It's thought to be effective for social phobia as well as generalised anxiety.
Ed
Posted by cybercafe on October 10, 2004, at 3:28:23
In reply to Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 8, 2004, at 9:38:29
> Hi there, thanks for listening.
>
> I have suffered for a very long time with three things.
>
> GENERAL ANXIETY (GAD), SOCIAL ANXIETY, and CHRONIC STRESS.
>
> Personally i believe these three things all started because of a chronic self-esteem issue, however have become such a devstatingly strong part of my life that i make myself unwell on a daily basis.
>
> I imagine i could be labelled a hypochondriac with all of the things i have thought are wrong with me, but regardless of my label, the facts are that the prolonged and severe symptoms caused by the conditions outlined above are causing severe social inadequacy, an inability to function at all on a daily basis and are having negative effects on my physical health.
>
> As an example i have been in hospital once this year suffering from a heart arrythmia which had to be corrected with a drip, but no physical problems could be found, either in blood work or with an echocardiagram etc, so my doctor quite rightly has labelled me with an anxiety problem.
>
> I am ONLY 22.
>
> I cannot be around people without completely closing up and living inside my own head and this results in such anxiety that i make myself physically unwell, although i never have panic attacks interestingly enough, just put too much strain on my body, my symptoms being feeling physically sick and faint, or on the verge of something bad. (thats the only way i can describe it).
>
> After unsuccessful trials with two SSRIs and Effexor (all of which made me feel very ill among other severe side effects, enough to make me feel i definitely dont need serotonin meds), my doctor gave me a two week taper of Librium. (this was about a year ago)
>
> The first two days were the best two days of my life that i can remember and i was in awe of this medication, unfortunately i responded so well that my doctor thought it in appropriate to take the trial any further for fear of abuse if the medication became less effective, as he thought this was just an initial reaction that would fade, some kind of euphoria if you like. (His fear is not groundless because i have a history of depressant abuse, namely alcohol and marijuana, however these were both years ago, and rather than wanting to get high anymore i just want to function.)
>
> Having convinced the doctor that needing relief and normalacy in my life, yesterday the doctor presribed me with 40 mgs of Librium a day on the basis that i can get some relief but when he tells me to stop, i have to stop. (I live in the UK, and he is sticking his neck out with even this little plan).
>
> However while the 40 mgs is the exact same strength that provided me with much relief a year ago, this time round it is not achieving anything near the level of relief that it had done the first time. It is clearing up my physical problems, palpitations, agitation, teeth grinding, over stimulation in my tempral lobes etc etc, however it is not providing the feeling i had originally with my first trial a year ago, when i felt that the emotion of anxiety could never possibly exist.
>
> in effect the physical symptoms of my anxiety seem to be diminishing but my mental ones do not. Im still very anxieous in fact. Again, for example, i was at University today for my first day back and found it just as hard as ever to be around the people in my class even though i trust and like every single one of them. I just have nothing to say, go into my shell and sit in silence, which is such a shame. I also started feeling faint and sick as a direct result. As i sit here alone in my house i feel absolutely fine although i have taken my third librium of the day (i take four lots of ten mgs btw), about an hour early, which may be adding to the fact that i feel ok, but i have no doubts in my mind that if i was in class right now i would be feeling as anxious as i was earlier.
>
> The questions i have to ask are these i guess.
>
> 1) does anyone have any thoughts regarding this. Do you think that with the extra year of anxiety i have been through, during which i have become more and more desperate to the point of hopelesness, that my requirement of dose is higher than it was a year ago??
>
> 2) Do you think its too early in my treatment to be having doubts (two days in), its just i was under the impression, and especially baring in mind my tremendous response to the same drug a year ago, that the benzos generally work straight away and the relief felt on the first day is an indication of how well the treatment is going to get and its never going to get any better than that. Am i wrong in this thought???
>
> 3) Finally does anyone have experience in combining two benzos together, because i understand clonazepam to be the most used on this board with social anxiety, although i doubt there have been many tests using Librium because its a hardly used medication as i understand it, especially in America anyway. Im sure there are issues with toxicity in using two long half life benzos (well drugs in general) on a daily basis, is this a fair assumption??? Would it be worth just losing the Librium and trying clonazepam on its own???
>
>
> The use of Clonazepam just to let you know would not be acceptable with my doctor. He is angry with me already for managing to talk him into using a benzo at all even if it is only a short term trial (although i reckon if im rsesponsible i can get him be felxible on the length of use), so i would have to buy Clonazepam from the Internet, something i don't fully trust. I have a pretty reliable source for meds but meds from my local pharmacy are much much better than anything i get sent from overseas.
>
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on the above???
>
> I do have to say that i do like the relief the librium gives me for the physical symptoms of generalised anxiety (the daily palpitations and agitation etc), it just feels that its only managing to help with 33% of my problems.
>
> Also i found SSRIs horrible medication that made my social anxiety way way worse and very physically unwell to boot, not to mention the discontinuation which sucks. I understand Benzos have a horrible discontinuation also but i can't live my life like i do without medication, because it doesn't constitute a life and if its a choice between a medication with problems when quitting that helps and a choice between medication with problems quitting that makes me feel ill, i think its obvious which wins.
>
> (I think doctors and preachers (the Internet kind) would also do well to look at the released list of prescription medication proving hardest to stop. Im pretty sure SSRIs lead the way hands down, so having survied the withdrawal od both Paxil and Effexor, i pretty confident i can deal with that of the benzos, although my life sucks so bad, if a benzo can rid me of my issues i have no problem taking it long term. If i have dementia when im 65, ill just have to deal with it then, im certainly not having a life that is on a par with hell just so i dont have memory problems in fourty five years time.)
>
> My i have babbled on down here. Any thoughts on the questions posed though would be oh so welcome. Cheers.
>
> Dan.
when i was in the UK (London) i didn't have much of a problem getting benzos... but i was already on them before i came over... and i was really adament about taking them (instead of antipsychotics for anxiety???)
Posted by Michael Bell on October 10, 2004, at 17:26:11
In reply to Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 8, 2004, at 9:38:29
>
I think you said you live in the UK, so I don't know what the situation with pdocs is like there. But one thing is clear: If at all possible, you need to find a doctor willing to provide benzos.SSRIs are not the best meds for anxiety. They're just not. Period. And frankly I'm getting quite sick of those doctors who refuse to consider alternatives to SSRIs. Benzos and other medications that increase GABA functionality are the most effective substances for anxiety disorders, hands down. Any doctor not willing to see this is either not a specialist in anxiety disorders or is under the thumb of billion dollar companies that make the SSRIs.
I strongly suggest you try to find a doctor who is willing to try Klonopin for you. If that is impossible, you may have to try overseas sources. I understand your hesitancy to do so, but I would suggest doing a lot of research of your own on other chat rooms and discussion boards and you will probably find quite a few recommendations for specific pharmaceutical websites. Look, if you are in as bad shape as you say you are, what do you have to lose by getting meds from a RELIABLE source online?
If you refuse to buy online, maybe you could try to convince your doctor to prescribe neurontin or the newly released gabapentin. Other substances I would recommend: Tianeptine, Picamilon and Amisulpride. But Klonopin is by far the best.
Cheers.
Hi there, thanks for listening.
>
> I have suffered for a very long time with three things.
>
> GENERAL ANXIETY (GAD), SOCIAL ANXIETY, and CHRONIC STRESS.
>
> Personally i believe these three things all started because of a chronic self-esteem issue, however have become such a devstatingly strong part of my life that i make myself unwell on a daily basis.
>
> I imagine i could be labelled a hypochondriac with all of the things i have thought are wrong with me, but regardless of my label, the facts are that the prolonged and severe symptoms caused by the conditions outlined above are causing severe social inadequacy, an inability to function at all on a daily basis and are having negative effects on my physical health.
>
> As an example i have been in hospital once this year suffering from a heart arrythmia which had to be corrected with a drip, but no physical problems could be found, either in blood work or with an echocardiagram etc, so my doctor quite rightly has labelled me with an anxiety problem.
>
> I am ONLY 22.
>
> I cannot be around people without completely closing up and living inside my own head and this results in such anxiety that i make myself physically unwell, although i never have panic attacks interestingly enough, just put too much strain on my body, my symptoms being feeling physically sick and faint, or on the verge of something bad. (thats the only way i can describe it).
>
> After unsuccessful trials with two SSRIs and Effexor (all of which made me feel very ill among other severe side effects, enough to make me feel i definitely dont need serotonin meds), my doctor gave me a two week taper of Librium. (this was about a year ago)
>
> The first two days were the best two days of my life that i can remember and i was in awe of this medication, unfortunately i responded so well that my doctor thought it in appropriate to take the trial any further for fear of abuse if the medication became less effective, as he thought this was just an initial reaction that would fade, some kind of euphoria if you like. (His fear is not groundless because i have a history of depressant abuse, namely alcohol and marijuana, however these were both years ago, and rather than wanting to get high anymore i just want to function.)
>
> Having convinced the doctor that needing relief and normalacy in my life, yesterday the doctor presribed me with 40 mgs of Librium a day on the basis that i can get some relief but when he tells me to stop, i have to stop. (I live in the UK, and he is sticking his neck out with even this little plan).
>
> However while the 40 mgs is the exact same strength that provided me with much relief a year ago, this time round it is not achieving anything near the level of relief that it had done the first time. It is clearing up my physical problems, palpitations, agitation, teeth grinding, over stimulation in my tempral lobes etc etc, however it is not providing the feeling i had originally with my first trial a year ago, when i felt that the emotion of anxiety could never possibly exist.
>
> in effect the physical symptoms of my anxiety seem to be diminishing but my mental ones do not. Im still very anxieous in fact. Again, for example, i was at University today for my first day back and found it just as hard as ever to be around the people in my class even though i trust and like every single one of them. I just have nothing to say, go into my shell and sit in silence, which is such a shame. I also started feeling faint and sick as a direct result. As i sit here alone in my house i feel absolutely fine although i have taken my third librium of the day (i take four lots of ten mgs btw), about an hour early, which may be adding to the fact that i feel ok, but i have no doubts in my mind that if i was in class right now i would be feeling as anxious as i was earlier.
>
> The questions i have to ask are these i guess.
>
> 1) does anyone have any thoughts regarding this. Do you think that with the extra year of anxiety i have been through, during which i have become more and more desperate to the point of hopelesness, that my requirement of dose is higher than it was a year ago??
>
> 2) Do you think its too early in my treatment to be having doubts (two days in), its just i was under the impression, and especially baring in mind my tremendous response to the same drug a year ago, that the benzos generally work straight away and the relief felt on the first day is an indication of how well the treatment is going to get and its never going to get any better than that. Am i wrong in this thought???
>
> 3) Finally does anyone have experience in combining two benzos together, because i understand clonazepam to be the most used on this board with social anxiety, although i doubt there have been many tests using Librium because its a hardly used medication as i understand it, especially in America anyway. Im sure there are issues with toxicity in using two long half life benzos (well drugs in general) on a daily basis, is this a fair assumption??? Would it be worth just losing the Librium and trying clonazepam on its own???
>
>
> The use of Clonazepam just to let you know would not be acceptable with my doctor. He is angry with me already for managing to talk him into using a benzo at all even if it is only a short term trial (although i reckon if im rsesponsible i can get him be felxible on the length of use), so i would have to buy Clonazepam from the Internet, something i don't fully trust. I have a pretty reliable source for meds but meds from my local pharmacy are much much better than anything i get sent from overseas.
>
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on the above???
>
> I do have to say that i do like the relief the librium gives me for the physical symptoms of generalised anxiety (the daily palpitations and agitation etc), it just feels that its only managing to help with 33% of my problems.
>
> Also i found SSRIs horrible medication that made my social anxiety way way worse and very physically unwell to boot, not to mention the discontinuation which sucks. I understand Benzos have a horrible discontinuation also but i can't live my life like i do without medication, because it doesn't constitute a life and if its a choice between a medication with problems when quitting that helps and a choice between medication with problems quitting that makes me feel ill, i think its obvious which wins.
>
> (I think doctors and preachers (the Internet kind) would also do well to look at the released list of prescription medication proving hardest to stop. Im pretty sure SSRIs lead the way hands down, so having survied the withdrawal od both Paxil and Effexor, i pretty confident i can deal with that of the benzos, although my life sucks so bad, if a benzo can rid me of my issues i have no problem taking it long term. If i have dementia when im 65, ill just have to deal with it then, im certainly not having a life that is on a par with hell just so i dont have memory problems in fourty five years time.)
>
> My i have babbled on down here. Any thoughts on the questions posed though would be oh so welcome. Cheers.
>
> Dan.
Posted by Pluto on October 11, 2004, at 3:59:11
In reply to Implications of DUAL BENZO use. PLEASE READ :), posted by Daniel Woodfield on October 8, 2004, at 9:38:29
Dear Daniel,
Don't toss up with benzos like librium at those doses. Benzos are good, but they don't touch the real cause of anxiety, thus will only help you to alleviate those physical complaints of anxiety. On the other hand atypical antipsychotics like sulpiride or amisulpiride can arrest the psychological manifestations of anxiety like constant worrying. I am on a low dose of sulpiride now, and I don't even remember those overanxious days of my past life. The effect is sooo great. Try either amisulpiride or sulpiride at low doses and see whether it helps you. Reserve your librium for later, and if you are stabilized on the meds I mention, you would never have to use your it again. I had come through libriums, xanaxs, ativans and rivotrils. But none of them gave me the exact relief I needed. Then definitely not more than a few months ago, I decided to try sulpiride and I never had to regret.
PLS
Posted by utopizen on October 12, 2004, at 8:37:22
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium. » DynaUnity333, posted by Pluto on October 11, 2004, at 3:59:11
> I had come through libriums, xanaxs, ativans and rivotrils. But none of them gave me the exact relief I needed. Then definitely not more than a few months ago, I decided to try sulpiride and I never had to regret.
> PLSPLS, glad to hear you're feeling better! Please keep in mind, though, some of us are non-responders to these things, and the head-to-head comparisons of the trycyllics don't prove they're more effective than the newer SSRIs and SNRIs and Cymbalta.
Many people, and you'd be one of 'em if you saw me in class trying to talk with such a stressed voice my professors and classmates give me the pity look- need the immediate relief of something like Klonopin.
After sticking it out while I was trying out Lexapro, my doc two months later just put me on Klonopin to add to the Lexapro, which he just up'd to 20mg. I may give it another month before switching to Cymbalta, the last antidepressant on the market for me to try.
My class participation isn't what it used to be back when I was on 1mg of Klonopin 3x/day last school year. Now that I have Klonopin, it'll be interesting to observe the rest of my class today notice how calm and smooth I am when I am on the stuff and talk in class. It's like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr Hyde-- in the past, people literally can't get over the difference in me.
I am still vigilant about maximizing my AD dose and switching as needed, as I have depression now anyway. I may add some Lithium (already tried Lamictal but got a rash), Seligiline, and Cymbalta. Maybe Stratera will come me down, but there's just too many med changes to bother with it before christmas break for me. I had ADD, soc. anx. dis., and depression. Severe procrastionation.
Posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 10:23:33
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium. » Pluto, posted by utopizen on October 12, 2004, at 8:37:22
Have you tried antidepressants from other countries. Or off label meds for depression from other coutries?
I hope Cymbalta works for you. But if not I think there must be more out there for you to try. Or even new combinations of medications you have perhaps already tried:)
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 10:24:39
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium. » Pluto, posted by utopizen on October 12, 2004, at 8:37:22
BTW kudos for you that you are in any class. I tried several times and cannot concentrate enough.
irene
Posted by utopizen on October 13, 2004, at 11:44:13
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium. » utopizen, posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 10:24:39
> BTW kudos for you that you are in any class. I tried several times and cannot concentrate enough.
>
> ireneIrene, thanks.
I'm awaiting a shipment of Selegiline, and plan to take 10mg/day along with 1500mg of DLPA supplement. I should be getting this in two weeks. I'm not telling my doc-- I have enough med changes on my agenda for him than to worry about this.
Posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 11:55:42
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium., posted by utopizen on October 13, 2004, at 11:44:13
> > BTW kudos for you that you are in any class. I tried several times and cannot concentrate enough.
> >
> > irene
>
> Irene, thanks.
>
> I'm awaiting a shipment of Selegiline, and plan to take 10mg/day along with 1500mg of DLPA supplement. I should be getting this in two weeks. I'm not telling my doc-- I have enough med changes on my agenda for him than to worry about this.
Is it okay to mix Selegiline with Lexepro?I do not remember much about DLPA?
irene
Posted by utopizen on October 13, 2004, at 13:28:22
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium. » utopizen, posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 11:55:42
> Is it okay to mix Selegiline with Lexepro?
>
> I do not remember much about DLPA?
>
> ireneYou didn't hear it from me, but Celexa and Selegiline have been studied for interactions, and it was fine. But be careful. No Selegiline above 10mg/day, and if you notice anyting strange, stop taking it and call your local hospital. You should take it under advisement from your doc, who can prescribe it to you-- I'm just too bothered by too many other concerns I need him to attend to with med adjustments at the moment though.
And yes, serotonin syndrome has been found in drugs like Effexor when combined with Selegiline. And taking a stimulant with Selegiline is something to do at your own risk. I am, but am also aware this isn't that safe.
Posted by utopizen on October 13, 2004, at 13:33:13
In reply to Re: Try Amisulpiride or Sulpiride. NO Librium. » utopizen, posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 11:55:42
>> Is it okay to mix Selegiline with Lexepro?
>
> I do not remember much about DLPA?
>
> ireneDLPA is something found in foods high in protein. It's a natural supplement affecting amino acids in your brain involved in regulating chemicals that affect your brain. There is synergy between DLPA and Selegiline because the Selegiline basically maximizes the chemical reactions occuring as a result of the DLPA that is involved in chemical processes ultimately effecting your mood.
Posted by Toyboymcr on October 26, 2004, at 8:44:47
In reply to Re: Time to get a new doc (maybe) » DynaUnity333, posted by Michael Bell on October 10, 2004, at 17:26:11
Found a New GP ?
> > I have suffered for a very long time with three things.
> >
> > GENERAL ANXIETY (GAD), SOCIAL ANXIETY, and CHRONIC STRESS.
> >
> > Personally i believe these three things all started because of a chronic self-esteem issue, however have become such a devstatingly strong part of my life that i make myself unwell on a daily basis.
> >
> > I imagine i could be labelled a hypochondriac with all of the things i have thought are wrong with me, but regardless of my label, the facts are that the prolonged and severe symptoms caused by the conditions outlined above are causing severe social inadequacy, an inability to function at all on a daily basis and are having negative effects on my physical health.
> >
> > As an example i have been in hospital once this year suffering from a heart arrythmia which had to be corrected with a drip, but no physical problems could be found, either in blood work or with an echocardiagram etc, so my doctor quite rightly has labelled me with an anxiety problem.
> >
> > I am ONLY 22.
> >
> > I cannot be around people without completely closing up and living inside my own head and this results in such anxiety that i make myself physically unwell, although i never have panic attacks interestingly enough, just put too much strain on my body, my symptoms being feeling physically sick and faint, or on the verge of something bad. (thats the only way i can describe it).
> >
> > After unsuccessful trials with two SSRIs and Effexor (all of which made me feel very ill among other severe side effects, enough to make me feel i definitely dont need serotonin meds), my doctor gave me a two week taper of Librium. (this was about a year ago)
> >
> > The first two days were the best two days of my life that i can remember and i was in awe of this medication, unfortunately i responded so well that my doctor thought it in appropriate to take the trial any further for fear of abuse if the medication became less effective, as he thought this was just an initial reaction that would fade, some kind of euphoria if you like. (His fear is not groundless because i have a history of depressant abuse, namely alcohol and marijuana, however these were both years ago, and rather than wanting to get high anymore i just want to function.)
> >
> > Having convinced the doctor that needing relief and normalacy in my life, yesterday the doctor presribed me with 40 mgs of Librium a day on the basis that i can get some relief but when he tells me to stop, i have to stop. (I live in the UK, and he is sticking his neck out with even this little plan).
> >
> > However while the 40 mgs is the exact same strength that provided me with much relief a year ago, this time round it is not achieving anything near the level of relief that it had done the first time. It is clearing up my physical problems, palpitations, agitation, teeth grinding, over stimulation in my tempral lobes etc etc, however it is not providing the feeling i had originally with my first trial a year ago, when i felt that the emotion of anxiety could never possibly exist.
> >
> > in effect the physical symptoms of my anxiety seem to be diminishing but my mental ones do not. Im still very anxieous in fact. Again, for example, i was at University today for my first day back and found it just as hard as ever to be around the people in my class even though i trust and like every single one of them. I just have nothing to say, go into my shell and sit in silence, which is such a shame. I also started feeling faint and sick as a direct result. As i sit here alone in my house i feel absolutely fine although i have taken my third librium of the day (i take four lots of ten mgs btw), about an hour early, which may be adding to the fact that i feel ok, but i have no doubts in my mind that if i was in class right now i would be feeling as anxious as i was earlier.
> >
> > The questions i have to ask are these i guess.
> >
Ø > 1) does anyone have any thoughts regarding this. Do you think that with the extra year of anxiety i have been through, during which i have become more and more desperate to the point of hopelesness, that my requirement of dose is higher than it was a year ago??
Ø Sometimes you may experience tolerance which means that the dosage of Librium needs to be increased until it has the desired effect, so an increase to 60mg tid should work fine.
> >
> > 2) Do you think its too early in my treatment to be having doubts (two days in), its just i was under the impression, and especially baring in mind my tremendous response to the same drug a year ago, that the benzos generally work straight away and the relief felt on the first day is an indication of how well the treatment is going to get and its never going to get any better than that. Am i wrong in this thought???
Ø >
Ø Many Benzos do have an instant effect but Librium, Valium, Clonazepam, all have long half lives, and it can take a couple of weeks for the full effect to be felt. It will get bet better as it did with me as long as you can convince your GP to increase the dosage. Once stable on the new dosage there should be no need to escalate above 60mg / day. But from experience I have found Librium to be of little benefit, Clonazepam is the gold standard Benzo for Social phobias, and Anxiety.
Ø
> > 3) Finally does anyone have experience in combining two benzos together, because i understand clonazepam to be the most used on this board with social anxiety, although i doubt there have been many tests using Librium because its a hardly used medication as i understand it, especially in America anyway. Im sure there are issues with toxicity in using two long half life benzos (well drugs in general) on a daily basis, is this a fair assumption??? Would it be worth just losing the Librium and trying clonazepam on its own???
> >
Ø >
Ø Yes you can combine two Benzos like Librium and Clonazepam, or you may find that Clonazepam is effective on its own with the addition of Anti-depressant. Toxicity with any Benzos is not an issue because I have taken them for over 10 years, with no problems. I started on a low dose of Clonazepam e.g. 0.5mg bd, increasing to 2-4mg daily taken mornings, midday and at bedtime.
Ø The other option is to consider an AD like Nardil (MAOI) but I would continue with the anti-anxiety drugs.
Ø
Ø
> > The use of Clonazepam just to let you know would not be acceptable with my doctor. He is angry with me already for managing to talk him into using a benzo at all even if it is only a short term trial (although i reckon if im rsesponsible i can get him be felxible on the length of use), so i would have to buy Clonazepam from the Internet, something i don't fully trust. I have a pretty reliable source for meds but meds from my local pharmacy are much much better than anything i get sent from overseas.
> >
> >
> > Anyone have any thoughts on the above???
Ø >
Ø I live in the UK and have no problem getting prescriptions for Benzos, but many GP’s are very reluctant to prescribe these drugs in the first place. Depending where you are located in the UK I can recommend some GP’s that are sympathetic and understanding towards Depression and related illness like severe Anxiety, Social Phobias, OCD, etc..Let me know how your getting on,
Steve (Toyboymcr)
Ø
> > I do have to say that i do like the relief the librium gives me for the physical symptoms of generalised anxiety (the daily palpitations and agitation etc), it just feels that its only managing to help with 33% of my problems.
> >
> > Also i found SSRIs horrible medication that made my social anxiety way way worse and very physically unwell to boot, not to mention the discontinuation which sucks. I understand Benzos have a horrible discontinuation also but i can't live my life like i do without medication, because it doesn't constitute a life and if its a choice between a medication with problems when quitting that helps and a choice between medication with problems quitting that makes me feel ill, i think its obvious which wins.
> >
> > (I think doctors and preachers (the Internet kind) would also do well to look at the released list of prescription medication proving hardest to stop. Im pretty sure SSRIs lead the way hands down, so having survied the withdrawal od both Paxil and Effexor, i pretty confident i can deal with that of the benzos, although my life sucks so bad, if a benzo can rid me of my issues i have no problem taking it long term. If i have dementia when im 65, ill just have to deal with it then, im certainly not having a life that is on a par with hell just so i dont have memory problems in fourty five years time.)
> >
> > My i have babbled on down here. Any thoughts on the questions posed though would be oh so welcome. Cheers.
> >
> > Dan.
This is the end of the thread.
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