![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 15:12:26
Once again, I've destroyed the chance I had to make something of my life. I'm a 40-year old never-been. My kids don't deserve to be dragged down with me. My parents don't need to feel bad about my situation. And my sister doesn't need to always be helping financially.
I'm just very tired of always losing. And nothing's going to change.....because my brain is broken and I don't have any masking tape.
Posted by SummerSanders on March 19, 2004, at 16:36:04
In reply to I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 15:12:26
I hear you. Please get some help, it will pass.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on March 19, 2004, at 16:58:26
In reply to I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 15:12:26
We hear you. We've felt your pain. Don't give up. Call a crisis hotline, your MD, your minister, somebody. Reach out. Keep reaching out until you get help.
Posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 17:19:49
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SummerSanders on March 19, 2004, at 16:36:04
Thank you.
Posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 17:20:44
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by Minnie-Haha on March 19, 2004, at 16:58:26
Thanks.
Posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 21:06:48
In reply to I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 15:12:26
> Once again, I've destroyed the chance I had to make something of my life. I'm a 40-year old never-been. My kids don't deserve to be dragged down with me. My parents don't need to feel bad about my situation. And my sister doesn't need to always be helping financially.
>
> I'm just very tired of always losing. And nothing's going to change.....because my brain is broken and I don't have any masking tape.
how do you know for certain nothing will change?We can't prove anything good or bad, as the great philosopher David Hume stated...that's why we must summon as much faith as possible....
>
>
Posted by snapper on March 19, 2004, at 21:28:36
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life » SandyWeb, posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 21:06:48
Hi, Sandy
If it makes you feel any better I don't think you have made a mess of your life. I think that is the illness talking... FWIW I lost my business , my car, my independence, and a bout a zillion other things that would make one feel like a total failure... As far as your parents , family and sister are concerned... I live with my Mom And Dad and Older sister and even though I don't know your full situation.. I am thankful (not saying your'e not) let your family help!! There were many, MANY, MANY TIMES BEFORE DURING AND AFTER I 'CRASHED AND BURNED' that I stepped in and helped my family members . I definitely can relate to your anguish and dissapointment. I am 37 - male , and it's all I can do to just do to keep going the next day..No way am I trying to give you a positive attitude speech!! I know it's not that easy!! LONG RANT-- again this board is here to encourage and support each other in good times and in times of sheer agony and depths of lifes dispair--Don't give up!!
sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is my family, their support, my Sister and our cool little dog that puts a smile on my face most everytime I look at him... anyhow I will quit rambling..Hope my post helps you and does not hurt you; I just know that when I read posts like yours and others I can't help but divert my own pain into helping with encouragement to others!!
Regards
Snapper
Posted by greywolf on March 19, 2004, at 23:51:55
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by snapper on March 19, 2004, at 21:28:36
Sandy:
Hey, I'm 40 and I bet I've made a bigger mess of my life than you have of yours!
Just kidding. Believe me, I've been there, done that. It's a terrible thing to walk around worrying how you've done wrong to those you love. But then you realize that it's not that way at all. Your family, friends--they're there for you because they want to be. You're not dragging them down, you're just dealing with the cards you were dealt. Keep working on it, and get better.
Posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 1:37:04
In reply to I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 15:12:26
You have gotten some great advise.
First and formost, get help now!!!
And don't be afraid to lean on people. There will be a day when you are strong and they may need help.
As far as your children go, they only have one you. No one can take your place in their hearts. The ultimate hurt you could cause them is to chose not to be their parent any more.
I was where you are, more than once. And I have come back up out of the pit. You will too. For now, maybe you do need brain masking tape in the form of medication and/or counseling. But the brain can recover.
God bless you.
Posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 3:40:04
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SummerSanders on March 19, 2004, at 16:36:04
> I hear you. Please get some help, it will pass.
Are you the real summersanders?
Sandyweb,
Don't fret. Maybe you need some buddhism or something to get you off your false ego trip. I imagine you've had a rough time, but join the club. Self-loathing is just the polar opposite of grandiosity. I'm not criticizing you as much as wanting to point out something I find valuable to remember because I identify with your first post. You have to carry your scars and failures for the sake of others and yourself. Actually, you can't extricate yourself from the lives of others and make believe you are something terrible on your own.
One thing I have learned is that if you hate parts of yourself but then generalize your negative aspects or shortcomings then you quietly hate all people with your same shortcomings, failures and defects. Even if you think you just judge yourself, that is not entirely true. You can't generalize hate/self-hate otherwise you reject so many people who you would not entirely reject. You reject yourself, then you reject others. It's weird, but it's true.
This self-loathing/punishment thing is tricky. You thing you deserve it, but even if you were trying to do other people a favor by beating yourself up and thinking you should just end it all you are hating them and hurting them.
Imagine if your kids had a favorite dog, and someone stole it and beat the poop out of it. Well, you are probably the favorite dog or at least something your friends and family are very accustomed to. You need not hurt them by going mental about being mental.
You are not going to be validated for making up for the past. You just have what you can do now. No matter how much you do there will be more to do, and your failures will always be in place in the past. Learn to breathe with them and make friends with your ghosts and the demons torturing you. You can't annihilate your crummy past or present. That is life. Of course there will be better times when you are not thinking about th bad so much, but we all carry our bad records around with us.
I hope I am getting my point across.
It's not any more considerate and loving when you hurt something/someone {yourself} that other people care about.
Bottom line is that when you hate yourself you hate others.
Posted by Stryker88 on March 20, 2004, at 4:58:19
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life » SandyWeb, posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 1:37:04
I feel the exact same way, I am not were I want to be in life, I have a dead end job, even after two years of technical training, I just dont have to confidence to work at a high responsible position, I have lost alot gambling, waisting money etc. I owe Student Loans in 34,000 dollars that cannot be bankrupt, I am still single, and very alone. too much more tooo type
Posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 10:09:45
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life » SummerSanders, posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 3:40:04
Psycho,
I have greatly enjoyed your posts in the past, but I strongly disagree with you here.
> Maybe you need some buddhism or something to get you off your false ego trip.
This is not encouraging to a depressed person reaching out for help. This only brings more self-condemnation.
> I imagine you've had a rough time, but join the club.
Would you tell a cancer patient that?> One thing I have learned is that if you hate parts of yourself but then generalize your negative aspects or shortcomings then you quietly hate all people with your same shortcomings, failures and defects.
Some people do, but others of us develop a great compassion for those who battle the things we used to, or still do, face.
> This self-loathing/punishment thing is tricky. You thing you deserve it, but even if you were trying to do other people a favor by beating yourself up and thinking you should just end it all you are hating them and hurting them.
I completely disagree. When I am depressed, I constantly fight self-loathing. But that is because I have always been a perfectionist, and also very independant. I don't beat myself up to do others a favor. I beat myself up because I am not living up to the potential that I know is achievable. I don't hate others. I have a tremendous love for others. What I hate, at my low times, is that I am not what I expect myself to be, for myself but especially for others, and that I have to lean on others who already have their own share of burdens.
I am sure that you are right on target in dealing with your own life, and I am glad that you have gotten a revelation that helped you. But please, please be more careful in the future to consider that what was behind your struggle, with self-condemnation or whatever, may not necessarily be what is behind another's. I know you meant to help. But there was a time in my life that if I had heard those words, it would have thrown me into suicidal mode.
Posted by SandyWeb on March 20, 2004, at 10:38:31
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life » PsychoSage, posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 10:09:45
I want to thank everyone for your messages. It does help to know that "you hear me". That feels like a hug.
But I had bad news yesterday, and it was all from my own doing. And now there are no more options....I've run out of money, I've run out of TIME. Even if I got my head around that, I'd still be facing a brick wall with no direction to turn. There's just nowhere left to go. Every direction has been closed off, and I'm faced with......nothing. There's not even a decision to make because all doors have been shut. I blew it, when I could have achieved so much....for myself, for my kids, for my family, for my patients. And now that just won't happen.
I feel like taking a walk into the woods, sit under a large tree, and just go to sleep in the snow.
And I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I just seriously have nowhere left to go in my life. Time has run out.
But again, thank you for your messages. You're good people to reach out to a stranger. You're good people to open yourselves to somebody you don't know. You have a strength that will see you through. *hugs*
Sandy
Posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 11:38:12
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 20, 2004, at 10:38:31
I cannot imagine anything, ANYTHING that cannot be turned around.
First of all, maybe you have made a mistake. Maybe you made a BIG mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. And most of us have made BIG mistakes at some point in our lives. Some of the most successful people are where they are because of learning from their BIG mistakes. Read the stories of very successful people sometime, any you will learn how many failures they have had on the road to success. But the one thing that sets them apart is that they didn't give up. And I want to encourage you not to give up.
I want to encourage you to get help. You can get past this, and your future can be bright. But not if you give up. Lean on others until you can stand on your own.
Please keep us posted.
God bless.
Posted by greywolf on March 20, 2004, at 11:56:15
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 20, 2004, at 10:38:31
Sandy:
You are never out of good options or time. Step back from your problems for a moment and think about what positive steps you can take, even if they don't seem to accomplish enough right now. For starters, get some professional help. Don't make important decisions on your own when you are so down.
Sometimes it takes someone else to show you the path out of the woods. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
Posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 14:11:03
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life » PsychoSage, posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 10:09:45
> Psycho,
>
> I have greatly enjoyed your posts in the past, but I strongly disagree with you here.
>
> > Maybe you need some buddhism or something to get you off your false ego trip.
>
> This is not encouraging to a depressed person reaching out for help. This only brings more self-condemnation.
>
> > I imagine you've had a rough time, but join the club.
>
> Would you tell a cancer patient that?
>
> > One thing I have learned is that if you hate parts of yourself but then generalize your negative aspects or shortcomings then you quietly hate all people with your same shortcomings, failures and defects.
>
> Some people do, but others of us develop a great compassion for those who battle the things we used to, or still do, face.
>
> > This self-loathing/punishment thing is tricky. You thing you deserve it, but even if you were trying to do other people a favor by beating yourself up and thinking you should just end it all you are hating them and hurting them.
>
> I completely disagree. When I am depressed, I constantly fight self-loathing. But that is because I have always been a perfectionist, and also very independant. I don't beat myself up to do others a favor. I beat myself up because I am not living up to the potential that I know is achievable. I don't hate others. I have a tremendous love for others. What I hate, at my low times, is that I am not what I expect myself to be, for myself but especially for others, and that I have to lean on others who already have their own share of burdens.
>
> I am sure that you are right on target in dealing with your own life, and I am glad that you have gotten a revelation that helped you. But please, please be more careful in the future to consider that what was behind your struggle, with self-condemnation or whatever, may not necessarily be what is behind another's. I know you meant to help. But there was a time in my life that if I had heard those words, it would have thrown me into suicidal mode.
>
>
I am not sure I used the best strategy in addressing Sandyweb, so I guess it was an overly bold shot in the dark. I apologize for that. Nonetheless, my entire intention was to jolt her out of her tunnel vision.The major problem in depression is coping with the seemingly optionless position that Sandyweb is encountering. I applaud
your sensitivity to Sandyweb's possibly flimsy emotional state, Simus, but if she is to hold on then she needs to see what the consequences are of running away and hiding. My intention was to get her to see herself as a part of other people's lives. In essence, her emotions and feelings aren't isolated to herself whether she thinks so or not. If she loathes herself for being financially dependent then she will have an ill feeling towards others like her. She will see her failure in others or she will feel excessive internal criticism about her shortcomings but to that unbearable extent. That may not be a bad thing, but when it becomes disproportionate she will resent herself, resent others, and outcast herself. That is the point. The point is not to outcast herself because it is actually an insult to others. That kind of stuff has to stop. Sometimes thinking oneself as an outcast is as much a function of a false ego as thinking one is god's gift to all of creation. How does a person work out a false ego then? You can't just dump your ego. We need our egos to survive. Therfore, Sandyweb needs a real ego. She needs one that doesn't think she will become someone who will be immune to failure nor someone who is permanently cursed.What will make or break her will be getting out of her state of helplessness after she learns what she has really been doing wrong, what has been wronging her or what she has not tried that is new. It's a vicious cycle, and it's apparent she is immersed in replaying her shortcomings over and over again. If she is having trouble with making the same mistakes then there is an issue with how she appraises situations. Enhanced illusions about how positive life is are not the only and most helpful way to send a message to help someone. False affirmations for many mentally ill people can simply sustain their denial or even fuel a cycling disorder of thinking from hypomanic thinking to depressed thinking.
Depression and stress are distorted or ignorant reactions. Either Sandyweb really has no exposure to the right way to do things or she does, but she just doesn't know how to get it right isn't as important to me as much as the fact that she iwill figure it out herself if she is led to look larger. Come out of the tunnel because you've spent enough time in there.
It's really a tossup when we have so little information, so in a particular moment, Simus, it may be best to exhibit restraint and simply be comforting. However, that is all you will be if you leave it there. Sansyweb will need to be comforted daily regardless, so from my position I feel better sending something else to her.
Simus, If you were to go into suicidal mode because you were told that your emotional disease is characterized by distortions and ineffective responses then that is just indiciative of the degree of your disease. That generalized information is accurate for many, and it is not intended to enforce hopelessness. It is intended not to be a positive illusion either. It is intended to be helpful because she will have to carry them with her and learn to overcome them the very moment she sees them operating.
In context I have no qualms about my general statements about Sandyweb's post because there are a lot of other checks that need to keep her alive. Her family, her professional help, and she are also responsible for what they say and what they do. If my statements alone knocked her out then she was on her way. I was not that harsh.
If you read closely my thoughts are meant to be sobering instead of indulgent in wallowing or positive illusions.
If she survives she will weave her own philosophy of self that will account for her negative and postive aspects and her potential success and future failings.It's a bitter pill to swallow that we are not perfect and that we are going to battle our own minds time and time again. However, Stuart Smalley from Saturday Night Live was the 80s. He had to make a big production out of making those positive affirmations because his negative thoughts were probably just too pervasive and crippling. Those affirmations alone though would have changed his life. They could have set himself up to help change himself by lifting him from despair so he could think clearly, but they alone would have done nothing.
I'd hate to think that people would want to just say things out of habit to me to make that only make me feel better without leading me to being more constructive about how I perceive myself. Sometimes those comforting words in effect give me another false sense of hope and expansion when sometimes I might need a more balanced conception about my own nature and what life is like when you carry a history if disappointment.
Good luck, Sandyweb!
Posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 14:17:21
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life-SIMUS, posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 14:11:03
Sorry, sometimes I just type and click and like to read what I wrote afterwards.
EDIT:
However, Stuart Smalley from Saturday Night Live was the 80s. He had to make a big production out of making those positive affirmations because his negative thoughts were probably just too pervasive and crippling.*** Those affirmations alone though would NOT have changed his life. *** They could have set himself up to help change himself by lifting him from despair so he could think clearly, but they alone would have done nothing.
>> I'd hate to think that people would want to just say things out of habit to make me feel better without leading me to being more constructive about how I perceive myself. Sometimes those comforting words in effect give me another false sense of hope and expansion when sometimes I might need a more balanced conception about my own nature and what life is like when you carry a history if disappointment.
>
> Good luck, Sandyweb!
Posted by gabbix2 on March 20, 2004, at 16:03:02
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life-SIMUS, posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 14:11:03
Simus thanks for such an articulate and accurate response to this post. Many people who suffer depression develop a deeper love and compassion for others because of it (or in spite of it)
PsychoSage a comment like "If you hate yourself you hate everyone" is a sweeping generalization and most definitely no bottom line. Why would you think what is true for *you* should be projected onto everyone?
When someone is at the end of their rope I don't think they need to be "shocked" into seeing anything.
There are no shortage of people who get off on "Telling it like it is" (but really isn't) and it has most likely already been done ad nauseum by some family member, self righteous neighbor or another aquaintance who doesn't grasp the depth and reality of depression.
Posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 20:07:16
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life-SIMUS » PsychoSage, posted by gabbix2 on March 20, 2004, at 16:03:02
> Simus thanks for such an articulate and accurate response to this post. Many people who suffer depression develop a deeper love and compassion for others because of it (or in spite of it)
> PsychoSage a comment like "If you hate yourself you hate everyone" is a sweeping generalization and most definitely no bottom line. Why would you think what is true for *you* should be projected onto everyone?
> When someone is at the end of their rope I don't think they need to be "shocked" into seeing anything.
> There are no shortage of people who get off on "Telling it like it is" (but really isn't) and it has most likely already been done ad nauseum by some family member, self righteous neighbor or another aquaintance who doesn't grasp the depth and reality of depression.
I don't think you understand the weight of that statement or I am not articulating clearly enough.I don't think you've read my post close enough either as to why I chose to say what I said because it's apparent that Sandyweb is in a rut. She is not a 20 year old who is responsible only for herself. She self-admittedly has found shame because she is perpetually screwing up. She isn't naive.
I suppose I lift too many ideas from other sources. This book is premised on the kind of compassion I suppose I am hoping Sandyweb can find: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684841991/102-7713825-3885760?v=glance
The woman probably can't do what she wants because there is some block in the way. Doesn't it sound like she's hitting some kind of wall repeatedly?
Anyways, I was hitting on the idea of examining what she thinks she is by making her realize that her self-loathing drains any true love and consideration she has for others. Therefore, you inadvertantly have less regard or feeling towards others when you are deep in depression because you have collapsed within. That is why we feel numb and hate ourselves for not having more feeling about others. Because we hate ourselves so much that essentially becomes another kind of hate or disregard towards others, though inadvertant. Is this just too complicated or silly? I would think not to be honest.
Anyways, in the interest of my own time, I found the first thing I could lift to help give an idea of where I am coming from:
http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol2/ecological_self.htmlIn the Buddhist view, the self is nothing more or less than the dynamic aggregation of a bundle of interrelated causal processes. This aggregation was variously analyzed, most simply into its basic psycho-physiological polarity (naama-ruupa), and that in turn was further analyzed into the five parallel processes of physiological form (ruupa), karmic formations (sa.mskaara), cognition (sa.mjñaa), feeling (vedanaa) and discriminative perception (vijñaana). Later Buddhists in the Abhidharmic tradition carried the analysis still further, eventually recognizing 75, 85 or even 101 principal components of the process conventionally designated as "the self." It is important to stress that the point of this analytic Abhicharmic enterprise was much more soteric or therapeutic than descriptive. It was systematic but not scientific, in that its primary objective was to deconstruct all clinging to any false essentialist conception of the self, and not to exhaustively catalog all possible elements of existence. The transformative spiritual value of the analysis was seen to lie, in other words, not in the resulting products of the analysis but rather in the analytic process itself, in its salutary effect on the human tendency to cling to a substantial rather than dynamic notion of personal identity.
I know exactly what you mean, gabbix. I'm bipolar, and it's insulting to hear you believe I have no understanding of depression. I'm not personally for stock, politically correct cliche responses that make people believe they are doing all they really can and should for a person who might need a little more than a bit of fluff that every depressive has heard before.
Do you really think empty fluff is really going to help her move anywhere? It's important to use fluff, but it only absorbs some despair. Like I said Sandyweb's been doing something wrong over and over again. She's missing the boat somewhere. She's not see why she is important and despite herself why she really needs to refute her self-loathing thoughts.
Posted by gabbix2 on March 20, 2004, at 20:38:01
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life-SIMUS » gabbix2, posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 20:07:16
> know exactly what you mean, gabbix. I'm bipolar, and it's insulting to hear you believe I have no understanding of depression
Nowhere did I say that *you* had no understanding of depression I said most likely people had already tried to *shock* her into seeing things their way, people who had limited knowledge of the depth of depression, I am simply going by experience there is no end of people who have all the answers when you are at your wits end.
I'm not going to reply to any more of this because it's not about "us" I feel Sandy got lost in here. And it this is the med board and going to be redirected anyway.
Posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 21:57:55
In reply to I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 15:12:26
SandyWeb,
I am very, very sorry. Needless to say, you have now witnessed the down side of message boards. In general, people here are very kind and supportive, as they are instructed to be. But once in a while, Dr. Bob misses a post or two (or three). I am very sorry and embarrassed that this happened to you on this board. Don't give up on this message board completely, and DON'T give up on life!!!
SandyWeb, please go to the Psycho-Social-Babble site and look for the thread with Mrs. C, mystic, sexylexy, jlynne, Magdalena, and wantinfo. They are great people, and they will accept you in like family. Tell them Simus sent you, and tell them what happened. I guarantee they will not let you go through this alone! Please, please look for them and reach out to them!
God bless,
Simus
Posted by jlynne on March 21, 2004, at 0:11:15
In reply to SandyWeb, posted by Simus on March 20, 2004, at 21:57:55
SandyWeb, I would like to join Simus in inviting you to join us in Psycho Social Babble. If you don't know how to get there, let us know and we will guide you. Look for these names: Simus, jlynne, Mystic, Magdalena, mrs. c, SexyLexy, KathrynLex, and many more.
I am very concerned about you. Would you mind sharing some more details of what has happened? Maybe one of has had a similar situation and can give you some insight that you haven't considered. Please keep posting, there is an unexplainable strength here. And, even if there really are no answers, we can at least offer you our support. ...jlynne
Posted by JoshG on March 21, 2004, at 5:22:05
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life » SummerSanders, posted by SandyWeb on March 19, 2004, at 17:19:49
You sound so sad. Sorry to hear that you're feeling so low. Did something happen to trigger these feelings or have they been there for a while?
Josh
Posted by JoshG on March 21, 2004, at 5:26:16
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life, posted by SandyWeb on March 20, 2004, at 10:38:31
> I want to thank everyone for your messages. It does help to know that "you hear me". That feels like a hug.
>
> But I had bad news yesterday, and it was all from my own doing. And now there are no more options....I've run out of money, I've run out of TIME. Even if I got my head around that, I'd still be facing a brick wall with no direction to turn. There's just nowhere left to go. Every direction has been closed off, and I'm faced with......nothing. There's not even a decision to make because all doors have been shut. I blew it, when I could have achieved so much....for myself, for my kids, for my family, for my patients. And now that just won't happen.
>
> I feel like taking a walk into the woods, sit under a large tree, and just go to sleep in the snow.
>
> And I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I just seriously have nowhere left to go in my life. Time has run out.
>
> But again, thank you for your messages. You're good people to reach out to a stranger. You're good people to open yourselves to somebody you don't know. You have a strength that will see you through. *hugs*
>
> Sandy
>Hi again,
I am sorry you're feeling so much pain. The things you say sound familiar and I would not want anyone to feel so bad.
Josh
Posted by mystic on March 21, 2004, at 8:40:20
In reply to SandyWeb, posted by jlynne on March 21, 2004, at 0:11:15
Sandyweb...Please come and join us in the other room...You will get all the support and love you need and hopefully can encourage you in the right direction with resources to get help and therapy...You are depressed and Depression is a sickness that makes you think that you will never come out of it...BUT YOU WILL>>>come and visit us...Take care of yourself...Mystic
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