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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by redjr on May 16, 2005, at 11:01:15
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
Sabino,
I was on Effexor for about 2 weeks before my GP switched me to Cymbalta. Besides having negative sexual side effects, I was still plagued with insomnia. She thought that maybe the Cymbalta would help both. Well, after being on Cymbalta for 10 days now, I can honestly say it has not fixed the sexual side effects, nor lessened the insomnia. I too, have a high metabolism - since being a teenager. Most of my adult life I have been taking Elavil (in small amounts) just as a sleep agent and not for depression. Since starting the recent, new drug therapy for depression however, my GP took me off the Elavil and put me on Ambien for sleep. Well, like you say, Ambien has worked with limited success for me and never effectively overcame the side-effects of either the Effexor, or Cymbalta. Not being able to get a good, sound nights sleep alone can lead to depression! Not to mention a host of other issues that we as adults should not have to worry about during our day - when we're just trying to survive in the first place. On a ppositive note, I must say that from a mood standpoint, the Effexor was far more effective than the Cymbalta has been. I generally felt better (more upbeat) on the Effexor than now on the Cymbalta.
So, having said all of that, I have another appointment with my GP in a couple of weeks, and I'm going to suggest she switch me to Remeron. I understand it's not as bad on the sexual side effects, but I also realaize that everyone is different and can be affected differently by these drugs. Hopefully it will help with the insomnia as well.
Another new sleep drug that been advertised recently is Lunesta. Maybe you've seen the ads. It supposed to provide a better nights sleep without the next-day groggy feelings. And it has been approved for long term use for us stubborn insomniacs! I may investigate the use of this instead of Ambien as a longer term solution to my sleep issues if they cannot be resolved with the normal treatment of the ADs.
I am a 53 yr old male.
Cheers,
redjr...
Posted by redjr on May 16, 2005, at 13:11:32
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by jonnie on May 16, 2005, at 0:04:21
> I was suppose to start Effexor XR a couple of weeks ago, but i am to nervous about the possible sexual side effects. For me sexual side effects are as bad as the original problem i'm trying to fix - i.e. depression.
>
> Should i even bother with Effexor XRI was on Effexor for a couple of weeks before switching to Cmybalta due to the negative sexual side affects and insomnia. However, the Cymbalta hasn't been much better. If anything, it has been worse on my mood and side affects! Supposedly, the sustained dosage levels of these ADs can dramatically alter the early side affects. So, maybe it was a time factor for me. Everyone is different though.
Insmonia is my biggest problem now, as I just can't function on 3-4 hours of sleep a night - restless sleep at that! I'm taking Ambien, but that seems to be a hit or miss proposition. I'm going to suggest to my GP I try Lunesta which is a brand new sleep agent/drug approved for longer term use.
Effexor was effective at controlling my mood and depression though.
redjr...
Posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:34:11
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 21:51:10
Well, better fat and happy, than thin and depressed... at least I think so.
I'm still working on the happy part, and hoping Effexor will work.
Hope you're doing well. No AD's; just mood stabilizer? How's that working out?
Take care.
Posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by jadedmystry on May 16, 2005, at 9:04:57
Hi Jaded,
I've also been to a therapist twice now. Have another appt with her in about two weeks. Other than the Effexor XR, just stayed home for 3 weeks, and did some walking a few times a week.
Really was great to get away from work for awhile. I work in I.T., and I find that depression and anxiety and stress had really badly effected my concentration, memory, and ability to retain info. I was increasingly feeling like I couldn't do my job, and was more and more reclusive after work. I really was at the end of my rope, and something had to give.
Today was first day back to work. I'm still not really feeling up to it. I'm hoping the Effexor will kick in. Think this is day 20, but only day 5 on 150 mgs. I definitely had a fair bit of anxiety today at work. Felt fine once I left. If I can just get somebody to pay me for not working, I think I'll have this depression thing licked :-)
Posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:54:46
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 16, 2005, at 11:01:15
Redjr,
Sorry the Cymbalta didn't work out. Jury's still out w/Effexor for me. Depression had made dating out of the question for me, so I'm not as concerned about the sexual SE's, but if/when I feel well enough to date, hopefully that SE will have abated. Who knows...
Now, I have taken Remeron for about six months. If your depression is an agitated one, and your really in a pit, it'll pull you out and give you the best sleep you've ever had. You do get accustomed to the sedation, but for me, it never fully went away (I'm talking daytime now). The sleep it provides is seductive though. It's wonderful if you've had really bad insomnia.
Good luck with it. Check back in on this thread if you feel like it and let me know how it goes.
Take care...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:43
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
just wondering has anyone here ever said NO to meds and tried to just beat the anxiety and depression with out? Ok with out daily meds and some ativan when needed and no sleep aid even though it is impossible to sleep(ambien does not work tho I have it)???? I really am anti-med ..but not sure if i will get worse or will i be ok with alot of hard work with my therapist..
anyone thoughts ?? advice?
Posted by Phillipa on May 16, 2005, at 21:01:34
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:43
Read the "I've Had It Thread down the Board. It is about not taking meds and the damage they cause. I took remeron and it didn't help sleep. Either does ambien, valium, chloral hydrate. I'm going through a hard time right now and maybe we all just want a "quick fix". And nothing really works. The drug companies get richer and so do the pdocs. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by corafree on May 16, 2005, at 23:01:14
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; better sleep Cora, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:34:11
I think I really experience life as it is now, instead of standing back and watching it. I mean, if I'm lonely,...it's because I really have a right to be; I've been alone too long! If I'm bored, its kind of fun to sit back and wait for someone else to drop the emotional ball - it always used to be me. Maybe the mood stabilizers were what I needed all along; I just don't have clear symptoms of bipolar!? The weight gain, well I don't know what it is about them that make you feel so ravenous you reach for the closest edible thing?!? But, I used to exercise, and I know I could distribute this weight w/ a run 3x a week. Unfortunately doc says I have to fast walk now. I used to laugh at seeing people fast walk, ya' know looks like they have to go to the bathroom and are too embarrassed to run ... ha! Guess I'll have to join the fast walkers or find another form of inexpensive exercise. You should know that my nerves were fried ... that was what the breakdown was all about. Besides the two 'so-called' mood stabilizers, I am on a long-acting benzo. I haven't had an anxiety or panic attack since this whole regimen change. And, that/they were a big prob'. My suicidal ideation has all but gone away. But, now, I'm 53-y/o, and I don't know if this regimen would have been what I needed 20yrs ago. I'll never know. I do know the breakdown and docs who changed me from ADs to mood stabilizers and a long-acting benzo saved my life. My life is pretty lonely, but part of that is me. I'm very picky and have been through a lot of abuse, so am mistrustful and fearful. I have a nice therapist right now ... no heavy stuff. Sometimes I'll take 100mg Seroquel to sleep and sometimes feel I need 200mg. I've not yet (seems like forever) found a good P. See a temp. this week. I've got questions about the need for two stabilizers. Whoa, like you wanted to hear my life story...huh? I'm trying to fast the remainder of this day. I had a good sandwish at lunch. This place, someone/you asking how I'm doing, is great therapy. I'm having some trouble w/ this old computer though, but children are trying to help me keep it running. They know I've got to have my computer! best wishes, me
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 9:39:23
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:43
> just wondering has anyone here ever said NO to meds and tried to just beat the anxiety and depression with out? Ok with out daily meds and some ativan when needed and no sleep aid even though it is impossible to sleep(ambien does not work tho I have it)???? I really am anti-med ..but not sure if i will get worse or will i be ok with alot of hard work with my therapist..
>
> anyone thoughts ?? advice?
>
StayceeIB,I understand where you're going with that argument, and if depression were simply a 'state-of-mind', then I would say there's some merit. However, more often than not, depression is related to a chemical imbalance in the brain. This in turn can upset proper hormone levels that help to keep us functioning in a normal world - and more importantly in a 'normal' way. In the stress related world we all live in it can even be more devastating when the levels are out of wack - for whatever reason. At a minimum ADs have helped millions by 'leveling the playing field' in what otherwise would be an intolerable world.
I don't see problems with our brain and associated glands any differently then other organs of our body that are treated every day with chemicals to treat and fight disease. Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache? Would you just say NO to penicillin if you had pneumonia? Would you just say NO to vitamin C if you had a bad cold? Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm? Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance?
Let me relate a personal story where I acted as my own advocate suggesting many times what the physicians might be looking for. About 5 years ago, I was plagued with fatigue, lack of strength, and general malaise. My GP at the time could not find anything physically wrong with me. But depsite the medical communities efforts, I continued to battle the symptoms, subtle loss of muscle mass, lack of any sex drive and interest, concentration, focus, memory and others. Sounds like depression doesn't it? I scoured the Internet for answers. After a couple of years of no answers, I developed a severe pain in left shoulder that shot down my right leg via the sciatica nerve. My GP referred me to an orthopedic specialist. At the end of his exam, while he was writing prescriptions for related lab tests I asked him if it would be a good idea to get a bone density test as well. He asked if I had some history with fractures, and I told there had been a couple of incidents. He agreed to the bone density test.
His tests revealed a degenerated disc in my neck that was pinching a nerve affecting my shoulder and leg. But more importantly, the bone density test(BDT) revealed something far more sinister going on with my body. Due to the positive results of the BDT he referred me to a local endocrinologist(endo).
The endo prescribed more test - blood work for testosterone and other hormone levels, as well as an MRI of my brain. The results were very interesting to say the least.
The blood work revealed that my testosterone level was way off the chart in the wrong direction (read low) for a 51 yr old man. The MRI revealed further clues to the mystery - a benign micronoma(cyst) on my pituitary gland. So, as a result he started me on testosterone injections, as well as Fosamax for bone density supplement. That was 2 years ago. The testosterone alone has made me feel like a new man - with a renewed lease on my sexual life! My muscle mass is improving and bones are getting stronger.
I'm not a doctor, but I do know the pituitary gland is vitally important to our overall well-being. It's kind of like a hormone traffic cop, that regulates the control of many other adrenal glands, testes and other organs via an internal feedback system. It's buried at the base/stem of our brain(probably for the added protection it needs) because it is so vital. Now, is it possible that a cyst could upset the delicate balance and flow of signals sent to and from the pituitary gland causing possible chemical imbalance of other hormones? Quite possible ideed.
I will agree that many times general medicine treats the symptoms and not the root cause. We do know that stress can directly affect the proper functioning of our bodies as well. But, in many cases there can be something that's physically out of wack that manisfests itself in physical, or 'mental' sysmptoms.
Sorry for such a long post.
redjr...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 11:26:24
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 9:39:23
"Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache?" YES I have very often.... "Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm?" ..I juts got out of cast from BROKEN HAND and never took any of the percocets an dtrust me there was pain!! I had to haveit rebroke and manipulated break was that bad :( Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance? BECAUSE I NEEED to know if I can cope with out...I used to have daily anxiety attacks prior to 3 weks ago and ironically that is exactly when i told a doc NO to effexor..IRONIC or Empowerment?? Trsut me my depresson and anxiety WERE and sill may be bad..I still have trouble leaving house BUT I DO it eventually.. But really the empowerment bit comes from my therapist..he says when i told the DOC no to meds I took control and decided on something..which is empowering instself...(FYI Decisions are very hard for me)..
Is it really impossible to beat this without meds? That is depressing alone to me becuase I a not sure I will ever say yes to them.
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:15:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 11:26:24
> "Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache?" YES I have very often.... "Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm?" ..I juts got out of cast from BROKEN HAND and never took any of the percocets an dtrust me there was pain!! I had to haveit rebroke and manipulated break was that bad :( Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance? BECAUSE I NEEED to know if I can cope with out...I used to have daily anxiety attacks prior to 3 weks ago and ironically that is exactly when i told a doc NO to effexor..IRONIC or Empowerment?? Trsut me my depresson and anxiety WERE and sill may be bad..I still have trouble leaving house BUT I DO it eventually.. But really the empowerment bit comes from my therapist..he says when i told the DOC no to meds I took control and decided on something..which is empowering instself...(FYI Decisions are very hard for me)..
>
> Is it really impossible to beat this without meds? That is depressing alone to me becuase I a not sure I will ever say yes to them.Yes, you can 'cope' without them and be miserable in the process. Why? For what gain? Just to say you had the personal 'empowerment' to do so without chemicals? Everyone is different and their tolerance for pain - be it physical or mental - varies. I can't answer that question for you. But what if your depression and anxiety is truly related to a chemical imbalance that can't be fixed without an offset of the correct man-made chemicals? How does empowerment fix that? Could my low testosterone improve on it's own? Absolutely not. All the personal empowerment in the world will not change that fact. Sure, I could have continued living without the injections and have a much lower quality of life. No sex life, continued loss of bone and muscle mass. But for me, outside help seemed to be a reasonable solution with no negative side affects. I had to have external assistance. I believe our brain is no different. Sometime the level of the normal chemicals it produces are not enough. It needs help. Maybe just in the short term too - to help get us beyond the affects of external forces, pressures, stresses and other life situations that place our chemical levels at risk. And we do scientifically know that can be placed at risk.
No, it's not impossible to beat depression w/o meds, but I for one believe that God gave doctors the brains(no pun intended) to help heal people and chemists compounds to help heal people too. To take your argument to it's logically conclusion would suggest that we don't do anything, or take anything for pain, or whatever might ale us. Just exist. Just endure. Just 'buck up' and try to solve our problems on our own - without intervention.
Believe me, I share your pain and the affects depression can have on our lives. I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't. And sometimes just knowing other people are experiencing the same pain lets us know we're not alone in our struggle or quest to find an answer and somehow make it better - even if incrementally better over time.
redjr...
Posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
> Hi Jaded,
>
> I've also been to a therapist twice now. Have another appt with her in about two weeks. Other than the Effexor XR, just stayed home for 3 weeks, and did some walking a few times a week.
>
> Really was great to get away from work for awhile. I work in I.T., and I find that depression and anxiety and stress had really badly effected my concentration, memory, and ability to retain info. I was increasingly feeling like I couldn't do my job, and was more and more reclusive after work. I really was at the end of my rope, and something had to give.
>
> Today was first day back to work. I'm still not really feeling up to it. I'm hoping the Effexor will kick in. Think this is day 20, but only day 5 on 150 mgs. I definitely had a fair bit of anxiety today at work. Felt fine once I left. If I can just get somebody to pay me for not working, I think I'll have this depression thing licked :-)Hi Sabino,
Hey thank you for the honesty, it just feels good to have someone who understands where I am at right now. I saw a therapist today, I liked her, which is saying alot for me. I think she could really show me how to help myself.
I have been taking walks as well, but I find myself doing more sitting and watching life unfold around me than anything else. Sometimes I feel so apart from it all, and I am not sure how to get back to just being me again. I don't even know what being me means anymore. WHOOPS! True confession time, just unloading, feel pretty emotional today.
Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today, and worry about tommorow....well..tommorow :)
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:18
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:15:48
Ok I understand and YES my threshhold for pain is abnormal...I have cried daily foryears before and did nothing..Now I am in therapy and it seems to work though I may be fooling my therapist not intentianlly ..but I am like that in a way that I may appear so collected to the outside yet inside dying with sadness..
I really wish I knoew if I NEED to take meds to LIVE ...if so then I better do some rethinking..but I can not get past the med thing ..SO does this leave me STUCK? with a life full of ailments?? FYI th ebroken hand was a result of my rage :(
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:54:46
Sabino,
Yea, the Cymbalta doesn't seem to have the same effectiveness as Effexor, and the sexual SE are about the same. I'll stay on the Cymbalta for about 10 more days when I see my GP. Did you have the same sexual SE on Remeron? My GP says that's what she will switch me too, because it's not as bad in that area.
Gauging by other posts, my depression is fairly mild - in fact mood stabilizers might be more of what I need right now. It's the insomnia that's killing me.
In fairness, my job that requires I travel every week provides for little consistency when it comes to the same bed every night. Gosh I miss that! So, life on the road just adds to the insomnia dilemia. I just haven't been able to find a good and effective way to shut down my mind in the evening. It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going.... I might try Lunesta when I talk to my GP.
Fondly,
redjr...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:56:11
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
"Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today"...I take it one hour at a time a day is too long...As for being ME..well I used to Do everything now I do nothing ..well I am in graduate school with honors but thats how i think i divert my attention..I really have issues leaving the house ..I am an attractive gurl but I always get whta I call "srtuck in the mirror" where i attempt to get ready to go do something even go to supermarket..but then i look in mirrror and I am like uhhh not tday ..anyone else get that way? I also think the isolation makes things worse..but cant shake it..at least not yet...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:57:40
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:48
"It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going" ..What has produced that the Effexor??
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:18:27
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:18
"...I really wish I knoew if I NEED to take meds to LIVE ...if so then I better do some rethinking..but I can not get past the med thing ..SO does this leave me STUCK? with a life full of ailments?? FYI th ebroken hand was a result of my rage :( "
StayceeIB,
Another point worth mentioning is that untreated depression can often lead to a self-feeding downward spiral to an abyss that then can be very hard to climb out of. Whatever we believe about the merits of ADs, we simply can't afford to let ourselves go that far, in that direction.
I've said it hear before, that I believe ADs can assist in leveling the playing field for some with severe depression and anxiety that would otherwise leave them more vulerable to the self-fulfilling downward spiral. If the ADs help lift our spirits, elevate our mood a bit, or just help us make it off the sofa, then all the better. Maybe they(ADs) would make it possible to call a friend, take a walk, ride a bike, or just take a drive. The more we're with friends, or doing something enjoyable, the more upbeat we tend to be. And that helps fight the negative influence depression has on our psyche.
In my opinion, life it just too short to let pass by without some degree of personal enjoyment and fulfillment. This is not a dress rehearsal. We don't get another chance. We have to live today. We don't have to commit to a lifetime of ADs. But, they are worth a try. As we get feeling better, we can cut back or ween ourselves off until the symptoms return.
redjr..
Posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 13:29:57
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:56:11
> "Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today"...I take it one hour at a time a day is too long...As for being ME..well I used to Do everything now I do nothing ..well I am in graduate school with honors but thats how i think i divert my attention..I really have issues leaving the house ..I am an attractive gurl but I always get whta I call "srtuck in the mirror" where i attempt to get ready to go do something even go to supermarket..but then i look in mirrror and I am like uhhh not tday ..anyone else get that way? I also think the isolation makes things worse..but cant shake it..at least not yet...
OH WOW, can I relate to stuck in the mirror. I feel like it is to much for me to venture out anywhere. I go grocery shopping, and it becomes an ordeal, just because of the time it takes me to prepare myself mentally to go out. The only time I don't stress is when I walk. Even though I am alone, just the walk, the peace I feel, is really helpful. I am alone, but not isolated. It is the best I can do right now.
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:31:58
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 12:57:40
> "It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going" ..What has produced that the Effexor??
No, not in my opinion. While the Effexor may have aggrevated it a bit, it's not responsible. This has been a life-long problematic issue of mine since I was a teenager. I can remember rolling things over in my mind the moment my head hit the pillow. Till do! Like I said, I just can't turn it off.
And I have tried everything suggested from the medical community - short of checking into a sleep lab. I don't drink caffeine anymore, minimize my sugar intake late in the day, don't exercise in the evening, and try not to get into any heavy, thought provoking conversations in the evening as well. Anything that would destract my mind from falling asleep. But alas, none of that seems to have helped much.
redjr...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 13:56:16
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:31:58
the constant thinking NEVER ENDS for me..I even solve bolena algebra problems in my sleep.. THINK THJINK THINK it never ends..did not know that was part of depression... just thought i was a thinker...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 14:02:32
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » StayceeIB, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 13:18:27
I think I spiralled out and have been cimbing out of it in the last year...ITS HARD but I am determined.. but you seem to make a great case for meds..just wish I had a prescribing doc that would focus on me NOW not the past..if i sit and decibe the past I end up with depakote RX ..clearly I do not need that ..my therapist thought I may have ADD sent me to a shrink and he gave me the RX for effexor..u have read the reast and now I just take ativan when i need it yet I really have not taken much in last three weeks...I just wantto be able to DO things ..like driv eto my moms without fear of TRUCKS on turnpike..etc ..i dont drive more than 10 miles anymore cause it gets too dangerous when i panic...But mind you it was only 8-10 years ago i was driving coast to coast and up and down the midatlantic by myself I used to FEARLESS noww oh so fearful! yettttt knoing that meds are coming closer I am getting better tryin to do it on my own...But I am not 100% sure I wll succeed though I think I can and I see the positive thinking has gotten m,e further then beliveing that a pill that i wont take is the only answr
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 15:14:57
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 13:56:16
> the constant thinking NEVER ENDS for me..I even solve bolena algebra problems in my sleep.. THINK THJINK THINK it never ends..did not know that was part of depression... just thought i was a thinker...
I'm not sure it can be solely attributed to depression. Some people, as you said, just think alot - myself included. I'm more inclined to believe it's a form of mental obsessive complusive behavior (OCB) and to a lesser extent maybe related to having a Type A personality. But what do I know! In any event, it can be a source of extreme frustration when you're trying to go to sleep.
Lately, when I'm home on the weekends, I've gotten my wife to give me a good neck, shoulder and back rub after getting into bed. That seems to help relax me and makes it a little easier to relax my mind. She's such a good woman.
redjr..
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2005, at 17:39:43
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » StayceeIB, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 15:14:57
I sure can relate to the constant thinking. I am constantly being told by my husband and others to stop worrying and just relax. Everything will be alright. But my little mind can find l000 reasons why it won't be and is very negative. I also feel like I have to be perfect and please others all the time. And as far as driving distances, or going to stores, or even people's houses, I just want to crawl into a hole. I keep on trying but no med seems to help. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Sabino on May 17, 2005, at 17:45:55
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
Well, honest am I. Liked your 'I'll worry about tomorrow' line. Reminds me of Scarlett O'hara in Gone With The Wind.
Today would have been my second day back at work. I actually went in, but my anxiety was off the charts. I'm just not ready for that yet, so I left. Sorry to bum you out if you were looking for hope. I do retain hope that Effexor might work. I do feel better than when I first started it, and I'm only on it for 3 weeks now (6 days at 150 mgs.) So, it may well still work. I forget how long you've been on Eff XR. Maybe we can compare notes as we go along?
Best Wishes...
Posted by Sabino on May 17, 2005, at 17:59:09
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:51:48
Redjr,
I had no sexual SE's from Remeron at all. I liked it for awhile, but did not ultimately achieve remission with it. I like Effexor so far (in spite of the fact I had severe anxiety at work today).
For you, Lunesta or Ambien might do the trick. I'm certain that Remeron, and from what I've heard, Trazadone would for sure give you a good night's sleep. You know, if you liked Effexor's AD effect, but could not handle the sexual SE's and the insomnia, perhaps combining Effexor with Remeron would effectively cancel out each other's negatives. Dr. Steven Stahl recommends it as one of his 'heroic combos'. I bought his book Essential Pharmacology of Depression and Bipolar disorder.
I myself, had some leftover Remeron (in the shoebox of shame) from a long time ago, and have been taking a little bit for sleep. It helps.
Anyway, just something to consider. When I saw my pdoc, I had actually brought the book in with me, seeking his okay to take the Remeron for sleep. It was concealed under a little fleece jacket. Anyway, he proceeded to bring out his own copy of it and tell me about the possibility of great synergy. I never even showed him my book.
Hope you find a good solution.
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