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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4326 to 4350 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by NThompson on June 18, 2003, at 20:03:21
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomnia, posted by countess on June 18, 2003, at 18:53:54
Countess, Hi there. I have been on Effexor for 6 days now and I'm at 75mg for 2 days. I was having the insomnia and grogginess even before I took the pills. However, I am taking 37.5mg of Effexor in the morning with 25mg of Paxil and another 37.5mg in late morning or lunch time. I seem to have a ton of energy! Not to mention the pot of coffee I can drink by myself and the Pepsi's I can drink if it's really hot out. Oh, I do drink lots of water too.
Any way, as far as the insomnia goes, my p-doc prescribed 50mg of Trazadone to take before bed time, let me tell you, I have had better sleep, I don't wake up in the middle of the night. Usually I would only get maybe a hour or two a night. Now I go to bed around 10 and wake up at 6-6:30 and I feel great not like I need to go back to sleep.
What are you taking at night? The Effexor? I would talk to your p-doc, see what he/she says, because part of depression is insomnia, so give them a call and ask. It couldn't hurt to!
Take Care and I hope you feel better,
Nyia
> effexor xr 37.5 for two weeks and 75 for 4 days. extremely tired during the day and terrible insomnia at night. i'm wide awake and can't sleep. i take my med at night. does anyone have advice? when to take? does the insomnia go away after awhile? thanks
Posted by brian green on June 18, 2003, at 20:12:18
In reply to Re: Thanks Brian Re: Effexor » brian green, posted by NThompson on June 18, 2003, at 19:29:37
Nyia, when you get feeling better, the pdoc will determine if the dose levels are right and you will stay on them. You may get off of them one day in the distant future, I have a friend that has done that, but had to go back from time to time. Your brain will most likely need them to keep your seratonin and neophenprine levels maintained. I will be in touch, you let me know if you need anything!
Brian
Posted by NThompson on June 18, 2003, at 20:18:44
In reply to Re: new symptom: inordinate sweating!! » NThompson, posted by zinya on June 18, 2003, at 19:59:04
Hi Zinya,
Yeah the p-doc prescribed it that way. He was taking about going up in mgs till I feel better. The first 4 days, 37.5mg. Then day 5, 75mg. I stay on that for a couple of weeks and then go from there with the p-doc to see if I stay at 75mg or go higher.
As far as the side-effects no not yet. But at least talking to everyone here I know what to look for. Not to mention I have read some of the posts regarding going off the meds, not something I am wanting to do right now and when it is time I will definately take it slow!
I ask about the vicodin be cause I also had an elbow problem and had to take it along with a gall stone problem and migraines. So my body is use to vicodin if the 800mg Ibruprofen doesn't work. I will as my doc though. Thanks for the advice.
Take care of you,
Nyia
Posted by zinya on June 18, 2003, at 20:21:19
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomniacaptain, posted by countess on June 18, 2003, at 19:44:05
hi Countess,
i haven't had insomnia per se (I had some days of waking up at 3:30 am but then able to get back to sleep except one night - just a couple nights ago, sweating woke me in the middle of the night too but that too was only a one-night thing). Like every side effect, it seems -- curiously -- that we can get opposite effects each of us from the same drug. If anything i fall asleep earlier than before. I used to never sleep before 1-2 am and now i fall asleep, like it or not, closer to midnight most nights.
I'm writing mostly to say that i take mine at night too so i'm not sure that it's time of day that impacts insomnia but it could. Just that there's no direct correlation that applies to all people. I take mine at night mainly to have it on my fullest stomach, an hour after dinner or so, since i have a history of stomach sensitivity and nausea from taking other a-ds in the past (like celexa made me death-warmed-over nauseous to the point i had to quit, as did some others, even taking on full stomach) so i took every precaution here. And i only had some mild nausea the very first day or so on just 19 mg. when i first started.
But that's my reason for taking it at night. If you don't have such a concern, ask your doctor about switching to the morning. The trick would be gradually adjusting your dose to move it to another time of day and hopefully he'd have the best idea. The other thing would be to give it a little more time. Most symptoms (side effects) are supposed to pass in a couple of weeks.
Also, insomnia has been discussed here in the past by many and some have suggested, if i recall, taking Benadryl -- though don't quote me on that. You might check back through the recent months looking for topics like insomnia and see if you can find some more info.
Oh, here's what one poster wrote recently that i copied for possible future reference (though obviously i can't vouch for it):
Posted by kalypsa on June 12, 2003, at 12:53:50
In reply to Re: Effexor-Day 13 (Night-time is the worst), posted by Capri on June 11, 2003, at 21:13:56
Have your dr. prescribe Trazedone to help you sleep. My dr. gave it to me when I started Effexor at a very low dose and I love it. I've had horrible insomnia for years and now I sleep like a baby and wake up feeling great (no hangover like traditional sleeping pills because it's actually just a low dose of an antidepressant that has a sleepiness side effect.
By the way, I've been on Effexor XR for almost 3 weeks and have virtually no side effects so far. Feel a little less anxious, but i'm hoping I feel more benefits the longer I'm on it.
Try the Trazedone. Good luck!
Posted by CaptainD500 on June 18, 2003, at 20:34:29
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomniacaptain » countess, posted by zinya on June 18, 2003, at 20:21:19
I agree with zinya, countess. I couple of years ago, when my pdoc first put me on Paxil, he also gave me Trazedone to take as needed, and boy did I need it. It worked good for me, knocked me out within 20 minutes, and I didn't feel groggy the next day. I have also taken Ambien for a sleep aid, which again knocked me out within 20 minutes, but Ambien has a short life of about 2 hours. It is the plan that, after that, your body will keep you asleep. Sometimes it did and sometimes I would wake up in a few hours, but it did help and I still take it every now and then. Like zinya suggested, I have also used Benadryl Allergy Sinus to help me sleep, but I had problems the next day waking up and dragging the whole day.
The bottom line is, use what works for you, but if you pdoc will give you trazadone, and your insurance will cover it, it's good stuff. If you can't get enough rest, you can't get better no matter what kind of meds you take.
Cap
Posted by gretchen on June 18, 2003, at 21:01:02
In reply to Re: Does everyone on Effexor gain weight?, posted by Napaba on June 16, 2003, at 8:34:00
my two sister-in-laws and I have all gained between 20 and 25 lbs going OFF Effexor! UGH!!!
Posted by CherC68 on June 18, 2003, at 21:58:08
In reply to Re: PDoc -Argh! » CherC68, posted by NThompson on June 18, 2003, at 19:07:42
Hi Everyone, Thank you Nyia. Thank you for your encouragement and I am proud of how well you seem to be doing. You coming here for help is helping others. You, and the others and the ever helpful Zinya have all made things easier for me. I'm feeling kinda sad that I couldn't make it on Effexor or Zoloft - but so VERY happy for all of the people that are benefiting so well and hoping it just keeps getting better for them and I'm sending my prayers & online hugs to those that are struggling so much like me.
I feel now that I'm even more depressed than when I first was put on Zoloft 1-1/2 months ago.I keep thinking its "summer" or that I just got a pool or How Come I just went from full-time legal secretary, while part-time waitressing, as a single mom in a crappy apartment with no money to my life. Now, barely working 18-24 hours a week as a legal secretary, having the greatest husband in the world, the sweetest, best 13 year old boy any mother could wish for, a huge house, new roof, new pool, new windows, new dog, 2 cats and a dang Partridge in a Pair Tree and I'm MISERABLE!
Well again, thank you, and hopefully I can get a therapist or meds (maybe HRT), but I been dreading that, so I can talk their ears off!
Thanks so much, but carpal tunnel is screaming & ibuprophen isn't working.
Hugs to you all. Cher
Posted by chefdog35 on June 18, 2003, at 23:25:47
In reply to Re: new symptom: inordinate sweating!!, posted by Shari H. on June 17, 2003, at 7:44:15
ask doc about benzotropine Its for Parkinson but works well I too sweat from effexor. I started taking it again when i started effexor
Posted by zinya on June 19, 2003, at 0:07:28
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomnia, posted by CaptainD500 on June 18, 2003, at 20:34:29
Hi Countess,
Just wanted to make clear: Cap was giving me credit here for med. suggestions for insomnia he agreed with. I was only relaying others' suggestions, but I myself have not used, or had to use, anything for insomnia ... That has not been one of my side effects, least not yet... :)
Posted by zinya on June 19, 2003, at 0:38:24
In reply to Re: PDoc -Argh! » NThompson, posted by CherC68 on June 18, 2003, at 21:58:08
Dear Cher!
I'm so concerned for you, my goodness. I sent you an e-mail some hours ago, I hope you got it....
I get the impression in this post that you feel like you're spiralling. Please reach out when and however you wish or need, any time. I hear you making yourself feel guilty for not being joyful, punishing yourself for not "being yourself" in the face of loving family and "things" and situations which our whole society subconsciously or consciously teaches us to equate with "having arrived" or "reasons to feel good." But the thing about depression [if I may be so bold given how new i am to even beginning to process all this and stop my own half-hearted, abortive prior attempts and procrastinating and finally take it really seriously] is that (among other things) it is absolutely not rational, it's not about things that "make sense" or feelings that seem rational or justified. Depression doesn't care about such stuff. In fact, it seems like such stuff just makes the depression more overwhelming or suffocating if we let the guilt compound it.
I know you've been wondering (at least until the past week) if in fact it was more transitory depression you were dealing with, one that didn't mean needing medical treatment -- and that still could be true. But either way, whether it's something biochemical or hormonal or more transitory, I want so much for you not to lay guilt on yourself for thinking you "should" be happier or you "should" be whatever. Applying this is easier said than done, but i learned some years ago to treat the word "should" like a red flag, to train my ears to perk up and think "Uh oh! Danger signal... Beware of the "shoulds." Especially about feelings. There's no such thing as how you "should" be feeling. Those internalized messages we all have (I shouldn't be afraid; I should be happy) just make us dysfunctional i think. And the friends who can't stop saying "you should this" and "you should that" are the friends i'm staying away from now. Hard enough just telling my own "shoulds" to get lost.
You are where you are, and there are reasons why you are depressed even if you can't see them now. They may be emotional, they may be psychological, they may be physiological (either biochem like serotonin or maybe hormonal or both) or probably some of all of the above, or more. But I hear you telling yourself your depression is "unreasonable" and that is something I wish I could massage out of your system, that guilt or self-chastisement. I know that that is part of the depression itself, so please know i'm *not* -- heaven forbid -- chastising you for feeling guilty!! or for chastising yourself! and i do understand your doing this (if i'm not totally off target in what i hear), but just know that, for what it's worth, there's somebody out here who thinks you're being way way way too hard on yourself. (This is me the pot calling the kettle -- How many times have my friends said this very thing to me, how hard i am on myself. So it feels a bit like Who'm I kidding? to be saying this to you, but always easier said than done...
In such a short time, I've already come to care so much how you are doing and care about you. Please know i'm thinking of you, sending my best peaceful vibes. I know your hands are hurting and I don't want to urge anything painful, but do send word when you can, even short words :)
with warm hugs,
zinya
Posted by NThompson on June 19, 2003, at 0:52:38
In reply to Re: PDoc -Argh! » NThompson, posted by CherC68 on June 18, 2003, at 21:58:08
Hey Cher,
You know, I grew up on a farm and I like more of the "Simple" things in life. So having the brand new "big " house and all the fringe benefits that goes along with it, well that would just scare the living hell out of me! Unfortunately, the bigger house usually means a bigger house payment. Fancy car...big payment. I would freak out. I already have anxiety attacks will the bills I have and hell, my house we bought 4 1/2 years ago and paid only $119,000.00 (which I do freak out about the mortgage payment a whole $917.00 a month!). I just found out that the same house down the street is selling for $278,500.00!!!!! Talk about equity! But what I am getting at is I think the anxiety will show up in strange ways. You are use to not having the money to do things right? A crappy apartment you said and being a single mom probably meant that the rent was on the more inexpensive, but still having a tight budget meant you stressed out about it. So your situation has changed and you see the money that you're putting out for things, house, windows, pool etc... Maybe your mind is still programed that your broke and you are getting the anxiety attacks over it.
There is this song from Teri Clark called "I liked it better when we had it bad" she liked her life better when they were flat broke and all they had was a burning love. Money is not the key to happiness. It does help having it, but having things doesn't cover up the depression.
If you get yourself the right meds and help, you will find that you will start feeling better. Learn to love you first, then when that happens it won't bother you if your a Legal Sec. or a wai tress. Because you will be happy with your life. And my opinion on working part-time, that is great if you can do it! You have a 13 year old son, he's entering the teen years, he is going to need you to be there for him and know what he is doing. Who, what, where, why and what time. He'll grow up to be a better man for it. You showing him values and giving him your time... that is the most precious thing you could
ever give him!As far as your husband is concerned, aren't they great when you've married the right one. They will stand by you and just give you love. Try to relax while he is gone. I had to sleep on the couch a few times with the TV on just to get through the night! Just think, he's out there to make the money so you don't have to worry. So that you can take the time to get better! So take the time and try to get better. If you can be a single mom, you CAN overcome the depression. You have to be a hell of a strong person to raise a child on your own! I KNOW I couldn't do it!!!!!! I envy your strength. I have a wonderful husband and 2 wonderful children, own a home, have lots of great friends tons of loving family members and still I'm here in this support group because I was so depressed that I tried to kill myself. What the HELL was I thingking????
Don't feel guilty about being depressed. You didn't want to be. It just happened that way. You will get better. But feeling guilty will only make you worst.
Take care and Bless you,
Breathe in and Breathe out. You can do it.
Nyia
Posted by countess on June 19, 2003, at 11:15:22
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomnia, posted by CaptainD500 on June 18, 2003, at 20:34:29
thank you everyone for the sleep advice. i'll talk to my doctor about those choices. this is so helpful.
Posted by NThompson on June 19, 2003, at 15:26:26
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomnia, posted by countess on June 19, 2003, at 11:15:22
Okay everyone this is really bugging me. I have been watching a friends 2 kids in the morning for an hour before they go to school and then take them to school. And I pick up my daughter and her daughter who are in the same class, and watch them for a few hours until she gets off work and picks her up. I don't get paid for it or anything like that. So here is my dilemma, do I tell her about my depression and that I tried to commit suicide? I know that if someone else was watching my kids I would want to know! So what do I do. I don't think I'm comfortable with telling her what I did. Her children are never in danger. What do I do?
Nyia
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 19, 2003, at 15:31:05
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomniacaptain » countess, posted by zinya on June 18, 2003, at 20:21:19
Saw my new p-doc today (Day 21 on Effexor). She bumped me up to 200mg a day (my insurance won't cover the XR so I take 100mg twice daily). She prescribed Trazadone when I asked about it. She said Benedryl is not a long-lasting solution for the insomnia. I decided not to push for a change to Lexapro. In reviewing the past few weeks, my emotional stability has improved drastically, thanks to Effexor. I'll put up with the side effects awhile longer.
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 19, 2003, at 15:49:08
In reply to Re: PDoc -Argh! » NThompson, posted by CherC68 on June 18, 2003, at 21:58:08
Cher,
Your life sounds nifty so it seems to narrow the scope down to 1) chemical imbalance in brain, or 2) emotional baggage, or 3) both. :) Either way, get your hind end to therapy or a pdoc! Depression is a miserable waste of life, it blinds your vision of everything that's beautiful. Get some help!
Your online friend,
Kim
Posted by brian green on June 19, 2003, at 15:51:56
In reply to Re: I have a moral dilemma, HELP!, posted by NThompson on June 19, 2003, at 15:26:26
> Okay everyone this is really bugging me. I have been watching a friends 2 kids in the morning for an hour before they go to school and then take them to school. And I pick up my daughter and her daughter who are in the same class, and watch them for a few hours until she gets off work and picks her up. I don't get paid for it or anything like that. So here is my dilemma, do I tell her about my depression and that I tried to commit suicide? I know that if someone else was watching my kids I would want to know! So what do I do. I don't think I'm comfortable with telling her what I did. Her children are never in danger. What do I do?
>
> NyiaNyia, hey!
If you are feeling ok, taking your meds, seeing your doc, and are not suicidal now, there is not a need in my opinion. Let's say you had a heart attack, but you are recovering from it and have been cleared to drive by your doc. I don't see any difference. AS LONG AS YOU ARE WELL and doing what you are supposed to do. I hope my vote helps.I hope you are feeling ok, send me a note anytime.
Brian
Posted by kalyb on June 19, 2003, at 15:53:10
In reply to Insomnia re: Effexor, prescribed Trazadone today, posted by KimberlyDi on June 19, 2003, at 15:31:05
> Saw my new p-doc today......She prescribed Trazadone when I asked about it. She said Benedryl is not a long-lasting solution for the insomnia.
---------------------------------
That's most interesting.I saw my pdoc yesterday after being on Effexor for 5 weeks. I've been having insomnia too, and have been taking diphenhydramine (USA=Benadryl / UK = Nytol) for about a week with great results. I fall asleep within about twenty minutes when I go to bed.
I asked him about the Nytol. He said it was perfectly fine to take for as long as I want, if it works that well for me. He reassured me that there were no issues with addiction or dependence on it. In fact he seemed impressed by my initiative (although of course, I owe all you on PB for suggesting it!!!).
Could it be just a difference between the USA and UK? My pdoc wouldn't prescribe me something he didn't think I really need, he's being paid by the National Health Service not by me or my insurance, and isn't being bombarded by drug advertising quite as much. Sorry if that sounds cynical. :)
But I am surprised that the milder, cheaper, proven Benadryl (diphenhydramine) "is not a long term solution" for you, but is considered perfect for me the other side of the Atlantic Ocean....?
Kalyb xx
Posted by brian green on June 19, 2003, at 15:55:16
In reply to Insomnia re: Effexor, prescribed Trazadone today, posted by KimberlyDi on June 19, 2003, at 15:31:05
Kimberly, glad things are working for you too on Eff. That combination seems to be popular, it was prescribed for me, and several others I know of also. 21 days, that is great.
Brian
Posted by brian green on June 19, 2003, at 16:03:06
In reply to Re: Insomnia » KimberlyDi, posted by kalyb on June 19, 2003, at 15:53:10
Kalyb and all the others on this side:
Honestly, I just knew that Benadryl would make some people drowsy, and some not. It has never made me go to sleep. K, to answer your question in my opinion, I think it is just the doctors' difference in opinion, and what they think works in their experience. I could be wrong, but I don't think they keep up with what docs prescribe do they? (in order to benefit the doc in any way) Maybe I am being naive, but I haven't really considered that.
Posted by melley on June 19, 2003, at 16:14:52
In reply to Re: no more effexor » melley, posted by zinya on June 18, 2003, at 20:02:15
> In retrospect, Melley, can you describe what exactly didn't work for you on Effexor and what the difference now is on Wellbutrin -- in terms of both positive and negatives effects of both?
>
> thanks ... and i'm glad you're feeling so much better!
> zinya
Day two off of effexor totally and no withdrawal symptoms. On my highest dose of effexor, I was bloated (from constipation I guess), felt numb (good in some ways:), couldn't sleep without a sleep aid, had horrible sweating. And then I started getting terrible memory loss. That might have been from the sleep aid. On the plus side, no anxiety and no depression. With wellbutrin so far the side effects are minimal. As a matter of fact the only one I've noticed is a bit of irritability. And I can really feel feelings again. I love that. I think it is okay to have an occasional mood swing. So so far I am happy with the switch. Hope it lasts. mel
Posted by zinya on June 19, 2003, at 16:17:00
In reply to Re: I have a moral dilemma, HELP!, posted by NThompson on June 19, 2003, at 15:26:26
Gosh, NT. I do see your dilemma. Have you discussed it with your husband? I would for sure make this yet another of the things you are increasingly sharing with him now that you're not feeling a need to hide such sources of anxiety from him. He knows the "players" too which we cannot know, by which i mean what kind of person the other mother is, how much a perspective she would have about the nature of depression, etc., whether she tends to gossip, etc.
I think you're displaying conscientiousness (which i prize highly in people!) and a concern that is well-taken but I'm not sure there's a simple answer to this and, since the crisis has presumably already passed, at the very least I wouldn't rush into divulging this without giving it some further thought (In other words, if she were to be alarmed at not having been told at the time, that isn't going to change if you wait a while longer).
You don't say how close a friend she is. If she's a true, real, close friend and you feel that -- independent of the issue regarding the kids -- you're somehow not being "truthful" with her about what you're going through, if you are friends who usually share most things, then that might be a consideration too -- as part of your own coming to terms with the whole issue of 'hiding' .... But again, i would say that for now, just coming out of hiding vis-a-vis your husband is so fresh and new for you, that i wouldnt' say rushing to expand that with someone else is necessarily wise quite yet, even if you feel trust in that friend (Is she the kind of person who tells you other people's private business? If so, then you can be sure she would relay yours -- unless of course you are truly "best friends" who only share things with each other but i don't get that sense...
So, i'm giving a very muddy answer here, i realize, but in recognition that it's a muddy dilemma, and i'm not surprised - it's to your credit - that you have raised it and are presumably of two minds about it. I think any both rational and sensitive person would be.
But if i had to make a call from afar, given just what you've said so far, i'd hold off... and discuss it with your husband and even then give it some time and perspective. This is still all so fresh. I'd let the transitions you're in now sink in more.
Unless of course you ever catch yourself even remotely feeling distracted or ill-disposed in a way that you admit honestly to yourself that her daughter could be in any jeopardy (e.g., if you find yourself distracted behind the wheel in some way related to what you're going thru now). And then you would have the option too of just telling her you have to stop doing it for a while and, if you're uncomfortable saying the real reason, I'd see no problem with giving an alternate reason as a cover until you might feel safer to share something.
Most important right now for *you* is to keep yourself in safe situations....safe emotionally and physically while you are rebuilding new strengths in yourself, new reliances, new senses of faith in your own instincts....
my two cents' worth for now
with hugs and peaceful wishes!
zinya
Posted by brian green on June 19, 2003, at 16:20:43
In reply to Re: no more effexor, posted by melley on June 19, 2003, at 16:14:52
guys, referring to Melley's note to Zinya (and other posters occassionaly) I don't feel like I don't feel feelings, I don't feel numb. Like we have all said time and time again, we are all different.
Brian
Posted by zinya on June 19, 2003, at 16:21:01
In reply to Insomnia re: Effexor, prescribed Trazadone today, posted by KimberlyDi on June 19, 2003, at 15:31:05
This sounds good, Kim ... cuz you sound good,.... solid. Hopeful. Those are good things.
I'm curious: how long out of the 21 days were you on the 150 before she bumped you up?
And did she say what her criteria were for bumping you up?
wishing you well!
zinya
Posted by melley on June 19, 2003, at 20:15:39
In reply to Re: no more effexor » melley, posted by brian green on June 19, 2003, at 16:20:43
> guys, referring to Melley's note to Zinya (and other posters occassionaly) I don't feel like I don't feel feelings, I don't feel numb. Like we have all said time and time again, we are all different.
> BrianYes, I did read that that is different for everyone. The numbness. And oddly in some ways I kinda miss it, if that makes any sense....
Posted by brian green on June 19, 2003, at 21:08:47
In reply to Re: no more effexor » brian green, posted by melley on June 19, 2003, at 20:15:39
I had a friend on it a couple of years ago, and I remembver her telling me it made her feel that way, like it was impossible for her to cry and she walked around sorta zombie like. That eventually went away after she had a few weeks under her belt.
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