![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
Hi all,
Just an update on SAM-e. I've tried it many times in the past, and always experienced dramatic improvement in 2 days to a week at 800mg (4 pills) a day. But the price. Oh my.
I recently added it to 300mg Adrafinil. I'm very pleased so far with the results. The best ever was Adrafinil+Amisulpride. What an awesome combination that is. But damn, the combination also made me impotent. Not either alone, but the two together. And unfortunately, neither alone was quite a good as the combination. Adrafinil and Amisulpride being basically equal to me in effectiveness, which to stay with? Well, Adrafinil has no side effects and is far cheaper. So Adrafinil it is. But what to add to it instead of Amisulpride?
I noticed a local Wal*Mart had SAM-e on sale for $16.97. So what the heck. It always worked well before, but I think the Prozac at the time kind of clouded the picture. I was curious how it might work now that Prozac is long gone out of my system.
The first 2 days at 200mg a day, and then the next 2 days at 400mg a day...nothing. But when I went up to 800mg, wow!
For anyone fed up with prescriptions, fed up with side effects, fed up with partial responses, or fed up with whatever, my own experience is that SAM-e is definitely a top contender to consider.
The biggest drawbacks in the past were: 1) High price; 2)Unregulated quality. But both of those are now being addressed. Competition is bringing prices down. I saw some great prices at www.iberb.com and www.intohealth.com. And at my local Wal*Mart ($16...matching the nearby KMart sale).
Independent studies by ConsumerLab have isolated the good brands from the bad ones. Before buying SAM-e, check which brands passed the quality test. They are listed at www.consumerlab.com. NatureMade at Wal*Mart is one of the half dozen or so good ones. If you don't see a brand listed, it means it didn't pass.
John
Posted by AndrewB on July 29, 2000, at 8:32:51
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
John,
How much does an 800mg. daily dose cost then?
By the way, amisulpride can contribute to sexual dysfunction via elevated prolactin levels. Reportedly bromocriptine taken concurrently, will reduce the prolactin levels. Pramipexole may also acheive this.
AndrewB
Posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 11:14:08
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
A couple more notes on sam-e. Most people have had success with Nature Made-it is the original forumula used in Europe. Others have found success with lower doses of Rx Ultra Brand (which combines b vitamins in with it). Success is usually (with Nature Made) at 800-1600 mg. According to Dr. Brown, you should also take vitamin B12(1000mg) and folic acid (800mcg) with sam-e. Again the success rate is apparently the same as for other anti-depressants; roughly 70%. You can combine it with other antidepressants, including MAOIs and St. Johns Wort. The only side effect I've read about from people who have taken it is added anxiety, which goes away in time, but not quickly. If it works for you, it's like a miracle--barely any side effects, natural, and I believe the price will keep dropping. shellie
Posted by SLS on July 29, 2000, at 12:18:07
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » JohnL, posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 11:14:08
> A couple more notes on sam-e. Most people have had success with Nature Made-it is the original forumula used in Europe. Others have found success with lower doses of Rx Ultra Brand (which combines b vitamins in with it). Success is usually (with Nature Made) at 800-1600 mg. According to Dr. Brown, you should also take vitamin B12(1000mg) and folic acid (800mcg) with sam-e. Again the success rate is apparently the same as for other anti-depressants; roughly 70%. You can combine it with other antidepressants, including MAOIs and St. Johns Wort. The only side effect I've read about from people who have taken it is added anxiety, which goes away in time, but not quickly. If it works for you, it's like a miracle--barely any side effects, natural, and I believe the price will keep dropping. shellie
Dear Shellie,Thanks for all of the wonderful information.
I'm sorry to hear that things are so bad for you. I hope your adrafinil arrives quickly.
How long does SAMe take to work?
Provigil really screwed me up. Every day has been torturous. I don't recall the last time I suffered so badly. Not only did Provigil make me feel weird during the 5 days I took it, but it left me in far worse shape for the two weeks since I discontinued it. Only now am I beginning to come out of the funk. I suffered from a worsening of depression accompanied by twisted thoughts, anxiety, dysphoria, a mind-numbing haze, cognitive blunting, poor memory, and flattened affect. I don't know how I managed not to become suicidal.
I am afraid to try adrafinil because of its similarity to Provigil.
On a more positive note, regarding your proposed trial of adrafinil, I recently came across someone's comparison of Provigil to adrafinil on another Internet site. He described being in a constant "haze" while taking Provigil. When he switched to adrafinil, he experienced no such effect, and was much happier with the way he felt on it. If I recall, he alluded to this "haze" as being a not uncommon occurrence with Provigil. He did not suffer from depression or narcolepsy. He was using it to increase cognitive performance. Perhaps the fatigue you experienced with Provigil is a reflection of the cognitive effects he experienced. You should remain encouraged that despite the appearance of great fatigue, you described experiencing an antidepressant response.
I wish you luck with adrafinil.
- Scott
Posted by afatchic on July 29, 2000, at 12:40:22
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
John,
Thanks for the info on Sam-e, especially the consumerlab.com link. Fantastic site, just what I've been looking for. I'm a poor college student and I suffer from depression, oseoarthritis, and fatty liver disease. I think Sam-e would be perfect for me, if only I could afford it! Thanks again, Sandi
> Hi all,
>
> Just an update on SAM-e. I've tried it many times in the past, and always experienced dramatic improvement in 2 days to a week at 800mg (4 pills) a day. But the price. Oh my.
>
> I recently added it to 300mg Adrafinil. I'm very pleased so far with the results. The best ever was Adrafinil+Amisulpride. What an awesome combination that is. But damn, the combination also made me impotent. Not either alone, but the two together. And unfortunately, neither alone was quite a good as the combination. Adrafinil and Amisulpride being basically equal to me in effectiveness, which to stay with? Well, Adrafinil has no side effects and is far cheaper. So Adrafinil it is. But what to add to it instead of Amisulpride?
>
> I noticed a local Wal*Mart had SAM-e on sale for $16.97. So what the heck. It always worked well before, but I think the Prozac at the time kind of clouded the picture. I was curious how it might work now that Prozac is long gone out of my system.
>
> The first 2 days at 200mg a day, and then the next 2 days at 400mg a day...nothing. But when I went up to 800mg, wow!
>
> For anyone fed up with prescriptions, fed up with side effects, fed up with partial responses, or fed up with whatever, my own experience is that SAM-e is definitely a top contender to consider.
>
> The biggest drawbacks in the past were: 1) High price; 2)Unregulated quality. But both of those are now being addressed. Competition is bringing prices down. I saw some great prices at www.iberb.com and www.intohealth.com. And at my local Wal*Mart ($16...matching the nearby KMart sale).
>
> Independent studies by ConsumerLab have isolated the good brands from the bad ones. Before buying SAM-e, check which brands passed the quality test. They are listed at www.consumerlab.com. NatureMade at Wal*Mart is one of the half dozen or so good ones. If you don't see a brand listed, it means it didn't pass.
>
> John
Posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 15:16:12
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » shellie, posted by SLS on July 29, 2000, at 12:18:07
Hi Scott. Sam-e is very fast acting, once you get up to the dose you need. Most "hard-core" depressants need between 800mg and 1600mg and then it is only a matter of a day or so, if I remember correctly, until it works. As I said, I went up to 1600 with no gain, only an agitated depression, but I don't remember the effects lingering it me.
I had the same experience with provigil, that the tiredness stayed in me for a least a week after (that's why I thought it was a new generic of aderex causing it). Anyway, I am no longer sure I will try the adrafinil; I've started topomax and think perhaps my bottoming out may be due to too many different stimulents in such a short time. My pdoc doesn't think stimulents are the way to go for me (though she's given me everything I've asked for, including ritalin and dexadrine),and I'm beginning to think that maybe she's right. Once I come out of this pit, I may try it, but right now, like you, I am too afraid of any more side effects. So far I have no side effects on the topomax so I think maybe I should just stick to that for now.
I think I could tolerate the depression if I didn't have so much work to do, that I feel like I can't do. I did a sitting this morning which went well, then slept all afternoon (my cat woke me up to be fed!) I know the depression will lift, it always has, it's just really hard to get through it. I have tons of hydocodeine here, and I'm not scared to take small amounts, but I don't want to create another problem for myself. I know my therapist is one emergency call away, so that is also helping me.
Anyway, my thoughts are with you. You might try sam-e--you've got nothing to lose but money, and if it works for you, its definitely worth the money. But stick with Nature's Way. My friend tried another highly rated brand for bad knees--didn't work--I gave him my Nature's Way and it worked in two days--for the first time in years his knees didn't hurt him when he mowed the lawn, etc.
Sorry Scott, that things are so bad. Trust me, I know what that feels like. Shelley
Posted by ksvt on July 29, 2000, at 16:04:17
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » SLS, posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 15:16:12
> Hi Scott. Sam-e is very fast acting, once you get up to the dose you need. Most "hard-core" depressants need between 800mg and 1600mg and then it is only a matter of a day or so, if I remember correctly, until it works. As I said, I went up to 1600 with no gain, only an agitated depression, but I don't remember the effects lingering it me.
>
> I had the same experience with provigil, that the tiredness stayed in me for a least a week after (that's why I thought it was a new generic of aderex causing it). Anyway, I am no longer sure I will try the adrafinil; I've started topomax and think perhaps my bottoming out may be due to too many different stimulents in such a short time. My pdoc doesn't think stimulents are the way to go for me (though she's given me everything I've asked for, including ritalin and dexadrine),and I'm beginning to think that maybe she's right. Once I come out of this pit, I may try it, but right now, like you, I am too afraid of any more side effects. So far I have no side effects on the topomax so I think maybe I should just stick to that for now.
>
> I think I could tolerate the depression if I didn't have so much work to do, that I feel like I can't do. I did a sitting this morning which went well, then slept all afternoon (my cat woke me up to be fed!) I know the depression will lift, it always has, it's just really hard to get through it. I have tons of hydocodeine here, and I'm not scared to take small amounts, but I don't want to create another problem for myself. I know my therapist is one emergency call away, so that is also helping me.
>
> Anyway, my thoughts are with you. You might try sam-e--you've got nothing to lose but money, and if it works for you, its definitely worth the money. But stick with Nature's Way. My friend tried another highly rated brand for bad knees--didn't work--I gave him my Nature's Way and it worked in two days--for the first time in years his knees didn't hurt him when he mowed the lawn, etc.
>
> Sorry Scott, that things are so bad. Trust me, I know what that feels like. ShelleyI must be one of the few people who felt she suffered side effects from Sam-e. I took it for several weeks to augment Wellbutrin. I don't think I ever got higher than 400 or 600 mgs, but I felt alot of intestinal distress, stomach cramps and constipation. During the course an an annual physical, my internist suggested I stop taking it to isolate it as the cause. I did, and my intestinal problems pretty much resolved. I was happy to get off it because it really was expensive and I really didn't feel like I was getting a therapuetic effect. It's very possible I wasn't taking enough too since I know 800 mgs is generally the minimum for depression. If I decide to give it another try, and I might if the price goes down, does anyone know if there is any reason why I can't bring the dosage up very quickly? Would appreciate any info.
Posted by JohnB on July 29, 2000, at 17:23:16
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
I have had some success on Sam-e too. Initially it worked wonders, then seemed to fade-out some after a few weeks even when I upped the dose. I'm still taking it as part of a cocktail though, which altogether is working well.
NatureMade is sold at Costco Stores for those who have one nearby.
Posted by SLS on July 29, 2000, at 18:15:06
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » SLS, posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 15:16:12
From:
http://www.internetnutrition.com/topics/same.html
Dosage Range used Clinically(Note: this information on dosage is for educational purposes only. Consult your physician or qualified health practitioner before undertaking SAMe supplementation.
Depression:Days 1-2: 200 mg. 2 times per day
Days 3-9: 400 mg. 2 times per day
Days 10-19: 400 mg. 3 times per day
Days 20+: 400 mg. 4 times per day
Posted by Julie Ann on July 29, 2000, at 23:22:27
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by ksvt on July 29, 2000, at 16:04:17
SAMe caused a lot of bowel problems for me also. Now, I take it only with food, and I have no problems -- if I eat food both before and after taking SAMe (rather than just before or just after.)
Another side effect I have with SAMe is that it causes me to feel very fatigued. I thought SAMe was an enegizer. Anyone know why I get so fatigued from taking it?
> > Hi Scott. Sam-e is very fast acting, once you get up to the dose you need. Most "hard-core" depressants need between 800mg and 1600mg and then it is only a matter of a day or so, if I remember correctly, until it works. As I said, I went up to 1600 with no gain, only an agitated depression, but I don't remember the effects lingering it me.
> >
> > I had the same experience with provigil, that the tiredness stayed in me for a least a week after (that's why I thought it was a new generic of aderex causing it). Anyway, I am no longer sure I will try the adrafinil; I've started topomax and think perhaps my bottoming out may be due to too many different stimulents in such a short time. My pdoc doesn't think stimulents are the way to go for me (though she's given me everything I've asked for, including ritalin and dexadrine),and I'm beginning to think that maybe she's right. Once I come out of this pit, I may try it, but right now, like you, I am too afraid of any more side effects. So far I have no side effects on the topomax so I think maybe I should just stick to that for now.
> >
> > I think I could tolerate the depression if I didn't have so much work to do, that I feel like I can't do. I did a sitting this morning which went well, then slept all afternoon (my cat woke me up to be fed!) I know the depression will lift, it always has, it's just really hard to get through it. I have tons of hydocodeine here, and I'm not scared to take small amounts, but I don't want to create another problem for myself. I know my therapist is one emergency call away, so that is also helping me.
> >
> > Anyway, my thoughts are with you. You might try sam-e--you've got nothing to lose but money, and if it works for you, its definitely worth the money. But stick with Nature's Way. My friend tried another highly rated brand for bad knees--didn't work--I gave him my Nature's Way and it worked in two days--for the first time in years his knees didn't hurt him when he mowed the lawn, etc.
> >
> > Sorry Scott, that things are so bad. Trust me, I know what that feels like. Shelley
>
> I must be one of the few people who felt she suffered side effects from Sam-e. I took it for several weeks to augment Wellbutrin. I don't think I ever got higher than 400 or 600 mgs, but I felt alot of intestinal distress, stomach cramps and constipation. During the course an an annual physical, my internist suggested I stop taking it to isolate it as the cause. I did, and my intestinal problems pretty much resolved. I was happy to get off it because it really was expensive and I really didn't feel like I was getting a therapuetic effect. It's very possible I wasn't taking enough too since I know 800 mgs is generally the minimum for depression. If I decide to give it another try, and I might if the price goes down, does anyone know if there is any reason why I can't bring the dosage up very quickly? Would appreciate any info.
Posted by paul on July 30, 2000, at 1:40:55
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
john-
i'm doing very well on serzone/seroquel/clonopin. what precisely does sam-e help you with and if it has helped so much in the past, why so many apparent on's and off's? just due to price? rabidly awaiting your reply----
tx
p(c(l))
Posted by shellie on July 30, 2000, at 10:15:27
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » ksvt, posted by Julie Ann on July 29, 2000, at 23:22:27
Posted by Julie Ann on July 30, 2000, at 11:00:38
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » Julie Ann, posted by shellie on July 30, 2000, at 10:15:27
Shellie,
> > Another side effect I have with SAMe is that it causes me to feel very fatigued. I thought SAMe was an enegizer. Anyone know why I get so fatigued from taking it?
> >
> Julie Ann- I have to say I never heard of a fatigue problem with sam-e, but everyone's chemistry is different. Was sam-e the only thing you were taking? I'm stumped, because usually it is activating, yet people also sleep very well on it. Are you taking the B vitamins recommended? shellieI take Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Effexor SR 300mg, Neurontin 1800, and Melatonin and Trazadone for sleep at night.
My diagnosis is Severe Major Chronic Depression. I don't feel depressed due to the effects of all the medication I take. My main problem is that I am tired a lot, and I sleep 12 hours per day.
I use to take B-Complex Vitamins; however, I don't think they did not do me any good (and I was taking very good dosages of this supplement 3 times per day.)
I have one theory regarding my SAMe-sleep problem. Perhaps I feel sleepy because I take my 150mg Effexor SR at the same time I take the SAMe. (The Effexor alone does not make me feel sleepy, however.) I tried taking SAMe alone this morning, and, I think, I was less sleepy.
Why does SAMe make me feel sleepy?
Julie Ann
Posted by Greg on July 30, 2000, at 11:13:00
In reply to Why does SAMe make me so fatigued? » shellie, posted by Julie Ann on July 30, 2000, at 11:00:38
I had a doctor tell me recently that SAM-e can be augmented with the maximum daily dosage of Vitamin B-6 (not the complex, just the B-6). He says it enhances the SAM-e properties and can help to reduce the fatigue that some people get. Just want to share that.
Greg
> Shellie,
>
> > > Another side effect I have with SAMe is that it causes me to feel very fatigued. I thought SAMe was an enegizer. Anyone know why I get so fatigued from taking it?
> > >
> > Julie Ann- I have to say I never heard of a fatigue problem with sam-e, but everyone's chemistry is different. Was sam-e the only thing you were taking? I'm stumped, because usually it is activating, yet people also sleep very well on it. Are you taking the B vitamins recommended? shellie
>
> I take Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Effexor SR 300mg, Neurontin 1800, and Melatonin and Trazadone for sleep at night.
>
> My diagnosis is Severe Major Chronic Depression. I don't feel depressed due to the effects of all the medication I take. My main problem is that I am tired a lot, and I sleep 12 hours per day.
>
> I use to take B-Complex Vitamins; however, I don't think they did not do me any good (and I was taking very good dosages of this supplement 3 times per day.)
>
> I have one theory regarding my SAMe-sleep problem. Perhaps I feel sleepy because I take my 150mg Effexor SR at the same time I take the SAMe. (The Effexor alone does not make me feel sleepy, however.) I tried taking SAMe alone this morning, and, I think, I was less sleepy.
>
> Why does SAMe make me feel sleepy?
>
> Julie Ann
Posted by shellie on July 30, 2000, at 14:05:54
In reply to Why does SAMe make me so fatigued? » shellie, posted by Julie Ann on July 30, 2000, at 11:00:38
Julie Ann- be careful about cutting down the effexor; that could give you bad withdrawal. As Greg mentioned, you should be taking b6, and also 800 mg of folic acid, according to Dr. Richard Brown who wrote "Stop Depression Now", a book about sam-e. One more idea (from the sam-e board, at www.delphi.com/samsupport/messages). Several people on that board did better with Nature's Rx or Ultra-Rx Sam-e (which has some B vitamins in in). It seemed to energize these people more and they took a lower dose. I saw only a couple of people using this brand. Shellie
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2000, at 15:48:30
In reply to Why does SAMe make me so fatigued? » shellie, posted by Julie Ann on July 30, 2000, at 11:00:38
Hi Julie Ann
> I take Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Effexor SR 300mg, Neurontin 1800, and Melatonin and Trazadone for sleep at night.
> My diagnosis is Severe Major Chronic Depression. I don't feel depressed due to the effects of all the medication I take. My main problem is that I am tired a lot, and I sleep 12 hours per day.
It is possible that the SAMe is increasing the production of endogenous (by the body) melatonin and serotonin. Perhaps this extra melatonin is working additively with that which you are taking as a supplement and thus producing more sleepiness. It is possible that the extra serotinin is working to potentiate the effects of either the trazodone or the Effexor.
If you are so sleepy, why do you take trazodone and melatonin? Perhaps it is time to cut back on the trazodone. Anything more than 75mg at night may be causing sluggishness early the next day.
If SAMe isn't helping you in any way, I guess discontinuing it would help. I suspect that you may be taking too much trazodone.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Bill L on August 2, 2000, at 10:05:42
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
The brand I take, Nature's Rx was not tested by them, probably because it is not found in stores- only by mail order. It works very well for me. I have used it for 2 years. I take 2 pills (400 mg). I also take a muti vit/min which is a clone of Centrum A-Zinc. This vitamin has very much reduced the anxiety that I had (the SAM-e reduced the depression). I take no other vitamins or anti-depressants.
In the past I tried 1,000 mg B12 but had trouble sleeping. Too wired.
Before Nature's RX SAM-e, I tried 20 mg prozac. Worked good for 10 months- then the all too common poop out. Then tried up to 800 mg of NatureMade SAM-e with 800 folate and 1,000 B12 but not much effect.
Posted by Burke on August 2, 2000, at 17:45:51
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by Bill L on August 2, 2000, at 10:05:42
> It seems to me that s-ame may negate some of the sexual side effects of Prozac. I am going to try 40 mg of Prozac w/ 400 mg of s-ame each day. Has anyone had any success with this combination ?
After running the gamut of antidepressants, I'm going to try the only 2 that have ever had much effect. I've always been a little worried about the placebo effect of Prozac, but this is what my gut is telling me to try.
Posted by stephanie l. on August 3, 2000, at 20:24:41
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » JohnL, posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 11:14:08
> A couple more notes on sam-e. Most people have had success with Nature Made-it is the original forumula used in Europe. Others have found success with lower doses of Rx Ultra Brand (which combines b vitamins in with it). Success is usually (with Nature Made) at 800-1600 mg. According to Dr. Brown, you should also take vitamin B12(1000mg) and folic acid (800mcg) with sam-e. Again the success rate is apparently the same as for other anti-depressants; roughly 70%. You can combine it with other antidepressants, including MAOIs and St. Johns Wort. The only side effect I've read about from people who have taken it is added anxiety, which goes away in time, but not quickly. If it works for you, it's like a miracle--barely any side effects, natural, and I believe the price will keep dropping. shellie
Shellie: On your post about SAMe, you said it could be combined with other antidepressants.
But I read an insert accompanying a bottle of SAMe, and it said not to take it with other antidepressants. I'm on several ADs and want to try it. Is there anything else you could tell me about combining SAMe with ADs? Thanks.
Stephanie L.
Posted by ksvt on August 3, 2000, at 21:59:52
In reply to To Shellie: Questions about your post on SAMe, posted by stephanie l. on August 3, 2000, at 20:24:41
> > A couple more notes on sam-e. Most people have had success with Nature Made-it is the original forumula used in Europe. Others have found success with lower doses of Rx Ultra Brand (which combines b vitamins in with it). Success is usually (with Nature Made) at 800-1600 mg. According to Dr. Brown, you should also take vitamin B12(1000mg) and folic acid (800mcg) with sam-e. Again the success rate is apparently the same as for other anti-depressants; roughly 70%. You can combine it with other antidepressants, including MAOIs and St. Johns Wort. The only side effect I've read about from people who have taken it is added anxiety, which goes away in time, but not quickly. If it works for you, it's like a miracle--barely any side effects, natural, and I believe the price will keep dropping. shellie
>
> Shellie: On your post about SAMe, you said it could be combined with other antidepressants.
> But I read an insert accompanying a bottle of SAMe, and it said not to take it with other antidepressants. I'm on several ADs and want to try it. Is there anything else you could tell me about combining SAMe with ADs? Thanks.
> Stephanie L.Stephanie - I read Dr. Brown's book on SAM-e and actually had a telephone conversation with him about a year ago on combining it with other ADs specifically Wellbutrin, which is what I've taken. I was considering it as an augmentation drug. His book suggests that SAM-e may react poorly with MAO inhibitors and I think he recommends against it if you are bipolar, but the claim, anyway, is that it is safe to use with other ADs. I used it (with Wellbutrin) for a fairly brief time but got scared off by the price and by the feeling that some GI tract problems I was having might be a side effect. It wasn't doing much for me depression-wise but I never got above 400 mgs, I think, and didn't really give it that much of a run. ksvt
Posted by michael on August 5, 2000, at 12:36:18
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down. » JohnL, posted by shellie on July 29, 2000, at 11:14:08
Just wondering if those of you that have had some success with sam-e have also been taking the vitamins noted below (B12 & folic acid)? Are they critical to the effectiveness of sam-e? Or have some of you also had success w/sam-e while not taking the additional vitamins?
And just dbl checking - is that 1000mg or 1000mcg of B12? Just wondering because the multivitamins I just looked at on my shelf only has 6mcg of B12... Thanks. michael
> A couple more notes on sam-e. Most people have had success with Nature Made-it is the original forumula used in Europe. Others have found success with lower doses of Rx Ultra Brand (which combines b vitamins in with it). Success is usually (with Nature Made) at 800-1600 mg. According to Dr. Brown, you should also take vitamin B12(1000mg) and folic acid (800mcg) with sam-e. Again the success rate is apparently the same as for other anti-depressants; roughly 70%. You can combine it with other antidepressants, including MAOIs and St. Johns Wort. The only side effect I've read about from people who have taken it is added anxiety, which goes away in time, but not quickly. If it works for you, it's like a miracle--barely any side effects, natural, and I believe the price will keep dropping. shellie
Posted by Sunnely on August 5, 2000, at 16:12:36
In reply to Re: Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by michael on August 5, 2000, at 12:36:18
> Just wondering if those of you that have had some success with sam-e have also been taking the vitamins noted below (B12 & folic acid)? Are they critical to the effectiveness of sam-e? Or have some of you also had success w/sam-e while not taking the additional vitamins?
>
> And just dbl checking - is that 1000mg or 1000mcg of B12? Just wondering because the multivitamins I just looked at on my shelf only has 6mcg of B12... Thanks. michaelSAM-e (pronounced "Sammy") was discovered and isolated in 1952. In the early 1970s, a formula for the preparation of a stable salt of SAM-e was patented. SAM-e stands for S-adenosyl-methionine. It first became available in the U.S. in March, 1999.
OTHER THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT SAM-e:
1] Use only an enteric-coated product, because SAM-e is thought to be absorbed more efficiently in the intestines than in the stomach.
2] SAM-e is not well-absorbed in the presence of food, so patients should take it in between meals.
3] Folate (folic acid) and vitamin B12 are necessary for the proper utilization of SAM-e. Taking supplements containing 800 to 1000 mcg (microgram) or 0.8 to 1 mg (milligram) of folate and 500 mg of B12 per day should be more than enough.
4] Dosing is highly variable. While some respond to 200 mg/day of SAM-e, others do not respond to less than 800 mg twice daily.
5] Keep in mind that SAM-e, like all antidepressants, can induce mania.
Posted by shellie on August 10, 2000, at 18:40:49
In reply to To Shellie: Questions about your post on SAMe, posted by stephanie l. on August 3, 2000, at 20:24:41
> > A couple more notes on sam-e. Most people have had success with Nature Made-it is the original forumula used in Europe. Others have found success with lower doses of Rx Ultra Brand (which combines b vitamins in with it). Success is usually (with Nature Made) at 800-1600 mg. According to Dr. Brown, you should also take vitamin B12(1000mg) and folic acid (800mcg) with sam-e. Again the success rate is apparently the same as for other anti-depressants; roughly 70%. You can combine it with other antidepressants, including MAOIs and St. Johns Wort. The only side effect I've read about from people who have taken it is added anxiety, which goes away in time, but not quickly. If it works for you, it's like a miracle--barely any side effects, natural, and I believe the price will keep dropping. shellie
>
> Shellie: On your post about SAMe, you said it could be combined with other antidepressants.
> But I read an insert accompanying a bottle of SAMe, and it said not to take it with other antidepressants. I'm on several ADs and want to try it. Is there anything else you could tell me about combining SAMe with ADs? Thanks.
> Stephanie L.Stephanie-sorry it's taken me so long to answer, but I haven't been around. I also talked to dr. brown on the phone, and he gave me no indication that sam-e was not safe withÊ any other anti-depressants, including MAOIs. It just didn't work for me. Shellie
Posted by gladys on April 18, 2001, at 12:15:58
In reply to Update on SAM-e. Really works. Prices coming down., posted by JohnL on July 29, 2000, at 5:20:39
Hello:
I am getting off of Celexa because the weight gain has made me depressed. I am on Wellbutrin now, but have noticed an edginess and crankiness and many othes on this site have felt the same thing so have started another med to go along with it. I do not want another drug to cause weight gain and so I thought of SamE. Does anyone know if SamE has caused weight gain? Also, could SamE and Wellbutrin be taken together? Thanks!
Posted by Leighwit on April 18, 2001, at 15:28:14
In reply to SamE and weight gain?, posted by gladys on April 18, 2001, at 12:15:58
What are you taking with the Wellbutrin, Gladys?
I've been taking both Aricept and Celexa with WB to counteract the side effects for over a year now, and on WB for three years. (Lots of others before that over a ten year period of time.)
SAMe, IMO is worth a try for most people. Before it was available here, I imported a supply from the Netherlands. It was definitely having a positive effect, although I'm always open to the concept of a potential placebo effect, too. Placebo or not, I was feeling better. I remember that it was very expensive at the time, although I don't remember the exact cost.
I wrote here many months ago that diabetics should be very careful. I had to discontinue SAMe because of several severe insulin reactions that occured while taking it (there were no other typical changes or conditions occuring to cause the reactions. Reactions of unknown cause are not uncommon to many/most Type Is, but they were occuring every day while taking SAMe, which is highly unusual.) SAMe is in fact being studied at Columbia for its ability to lower blood sugar. That would be great for Type II diabetics, but if you are a Type I, (juvenile-onset, insulin dependent)such as myself, it's bad news and contraindicated.
Leighwit
> Hello:
> I am getting off of Celexa because the weight gain has made me depressed. I am on Wellbutrin now, but have noticed an edginess and crankiness and many othes on this site have felt the same thing so have started another med to go along with it. I do not want another drug to cause weight gain and so I thought of SamE. Does anyone know if SamE has caused weight gain? Also, could SamE and Wellbutrin be taken together? Thanks!
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