Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2006, at 21:25:19
In reply to Re: I read it differently » alexandra_k, posted by sleepygirl on January 5, 2006, at 21:03:45
> the term "manipulative" does indeed sound insulting, yet it is in sooooo much literature
yes. and that is why... i feel fairly insulted when i read that literature. at least... i do now. before... i read it... and felt sad... and would cut myself to try and feel better because i thought i must be a really horrible manipulative attention seeking person and must be punished :-(
and...
so that description wasn't so helpful.
it was counter-productive as a matter of fact.
it increased my distress and increased the very behaviours that were problematic.> How else can we say it?
how else can we say what?
we can describe this is a cycle we see (just describe don't judge or try and get at motivation or intent). we can say that it seems unhelpful to us (we can list consequences or likely consequences)
sometimes the best strategy is just to focus on those things...
> the whole BPD thing tends to have a negative connotation
thats where i'd say read linehan.
and don't bother with the rest.
or perhaps thats a little unfair...
if you read stuff that sounds judgemental
(and / or that leaves you feeling bad about yourself)
then STOP
because...
mostly...
that is the writers own sh*t
their own issue
and there is a lot of that out there...and the people who are supposed to help...
sometimes they can be the people who harm the most...and thats really very sad :-(
but as consumers part of us taking the power back is for us to
NOT INTERNALISE THEIR B*LLSHIT
not see ourself in that way...
and not see others in that way either...> Maybe we just keep changing the words as they get too many associations to them,
that tends to happen in practice yes.
but that is where linehan talks about some of this stuff. i think it applies to her stuff on judgement... and i think it also applies to the civility rules on these boards...
it might seem to be a mere verbal point...
a matter of 'what we should call it'
a matter of 'what words we should use'
but for anyone who really understands...
who understands something of the theory...
the rationale behind the theory...to grasp it is more than just getting ones head around what words to use...
to grasp it is to grasp a whole way of thinking...
a world view.
interpretation
the freedom we have with interpretation (to appreciate that multiple interpretations are possible)
and to be charitable.
> but isn't every diagnosis an assumption - this one particularly problematic because it assumes intent?
this dx is typically considered to be most problematic... typically because it is considered that clients with BPD tend to elicit the most intensive counter-transference responses / reactions from others...
linehan considers that the behaviours that are exhibited are rendered understandable in light of what the person has inherited in conjunction with their experiences in the world... the person is typically in a lot of pain... but to negatively judge the person for their behaviours (that are the result of pain) amounts to... blaming the victim.
and that seems to be so...though that doesn't mean that people shouldn't own their own responses...
(just like if someone is uncivil to us that doesn't mean we can be uncivil back)
DSM is supposed to be fairly much purely descriptive...
but...
it is not.
(which is to say that some of the desctiptions assume negative motivation / intention)
that is why...
i posted a post to muffled a little while ago over on psychology with linehans dx criteria (which may be viewed as a non-judgemental alternative to dsm though it captures all the main points)
i think...
she is a master on positive / neutral interpretations...
she has helped me immensely...
but i have much to learn...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:595104
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20060102/msgs/595637.html