Posted by Lyrical13 on January 17, 2004, at 8:21:28
In reply to iq shmikeyou, posted by sienna on November 27, 2003, at 12:51:24
OK..several thoughts here....
First of all, I've recently learned several very brilliant people suffered from mental illness, mood disorders, etc....Van Gogh, Einstein, Beethoven...I can't remember who else... I'm not sure if this is true or if anyone has done any research on this or not, but it seems like high intelligence and mood disorders go hand in hand. Or is it just that the more intelligent people have the knowledge and resources to get help? Or do other people who are not as intelligent resort to other methods to medicate their depression...although I don't think that's true..a lot of people of various cognitive levels self-medicate with booze, drugs, sex etc.Also, intelligence and IQ are not necessarily the same thing. IQ tests are inherently biased.. all standardized tests are biased against someone. And you should be careful with the analysis of any type of data. With any standardized test score you should ask yourself, how was this test developed? How large was the normative population? what was the composition of the normative population? When was this test last revised? Many tests have been proven to be biased against various populations because they have questions related to things that are not part of that populations usual experiences and don't include things that they HAVE been exposed to in their lifetimes. And even the best least-biased tests can be misleading because, as someone mentioned, they are influenced by how we feel and our performance on a given day. When I am depressed/anxious I notice a marked difference in my cognitive functioning. I have word-finding problems, can't concentrate, can't remember things, very distractible, etc etc. Also, some of my meds cause/contribute to these problems...Since I started on Seroquel, my short term memory has plummeted and I usually have a very good memory...photographic at times. Lots of word-finding problems...train of thought constantly being derailed. It's very frustrating.
And as far as home-school vs public school "causing" higher IQ...I don't agree. As every psych and statistics and research-based course instructor always hammered into our heads..."correlation does not imply causality". Just because 2 things happen at the same time doesn't mean that one thing causes another thing. I was labeled "gifted" and was in a wonderful program for "gifted and talented" students in the public schools. I have no idea what my IQ is...I know it had to be above 130 to get into the program but when I was tested in 6th grade they wouldn't tell me what it was. I've been tested since and I still have no idea. I believe I am in the so-called "gifted" range. The point is, the number doesn't really matter. It is a measure (however flawed) of your performance on a given day. And your IQ changes over the course of your lifetime.
Not back to the public vs home school subject. As I was saying, I went to public schools and I feel like I got a very good education. Graduated 12 out of 671, BA magna cum laude, MA cum laude from very reputable schools. Was courted by high profile Ivy League schools and offered scholarships but didn't know if it would still be enough to pay for my education. My parents couldn't afford to send me. I was basically the first generation in my dad's family to go to college. My mom went to the JC. My dad's attitude was "Why does she need to go to college..she's just going to get married anyway..another variation of that one is...I never went to college and I turned out OK)
Probably could have gotten higher GPA but always took honors and "gifted" classes. Others whose GPA was higher were afraid to get into the gifted program b/c they thought their GPA would suffer. I personally think that this hang-up with numbers and grades is counter-productive to true learning...it's not about the numbers, it's about the knowledge and skills obtained. I think there are pros and cons to both public school and home-schooling. A lot depends on the quality of your school district. A lot also depends on the teaching skills of your parents or whoever is participating in your home-school program. A good friend of mine is home-schooling her children and I can see some value in it. But even though I think that I would be very good at teaching my future children, I plan to send them to public school. With school of choice and the option to request specific classroom teachers at least in elementary school I feel like the benefits of public school are much better. The major drawback of homeschooling as I see it is that you have fewer opportunities to develop social skills and it is more difficult to learn basic living skills that you learn from a public or private school experience (ie, out of the home) While it is possible to set up some of these experiences through home-school organizations (field trips, different parents teaching courses that they have strength in.. pooling resources basically) I feel that there are a lot of things that home-schooled kids miss out on. Learning to work in a group, learning to deal with and benefit from different teaching styles, developing autonomy, plus different extracurricular activities that are more readily available in the public school... school plays, special school programs that kids get to prepare at school and then surprise their parents with when it comes time to perform... all kinds of stuff. And personally, I feel that both kids and parents benefit from not being around each other 24/7. I'd rather send my kid to a public school and be an involved parent with the school and support them with their school work at home.
And where is the dividing line...when a teacher is frustrated with a student...they just don't get it no matter how many different ways they try to teach it...they have a break from the situation and can go away and research different approaches etc. When a parent or child is frustrated in a home school setting, where is the dividing line there? How do you separate your performance as a teacher or student from your relationship with your parent? I don't know if I 'm getting across exactly what I'm trying to. But I can just imagine a child that just doesn't get reading...parent is getting frustrated because they really want their child to be able to read. How does the child separate their perception of the parent's frustration (and kids pick up on much more than you would think) from their perception of their parent's love and acceptance?
The other thing is, I think highly intelligent people are inherently socially awkward and have difficulty fitting in with their peers. I felt like most of the kids my age were real dorks and felt much more comfortable with adults my parents' age than teh kids I went ot school with. But at the same time, I felt very out of place at school and wished I hadn't felt so self-conscious and fit in better.
Anyway, I got off on a much longer diatribe than I had intended. Sorry about that. Thanks for listening and have a groovy day!
poster:Lyrical13
thread:283883
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040109/msgs/301947.html