Posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 6:00:32
In reply to Re: Thanks guys, and more analysis » Larry Hoover, posted by Susan J on October 9, 2003, at 12:21:36
> Larry,
>
>
> > So, in some respects, you're naive. Still child-like, if you will. Just because your body matured doesn't mean your social skills, etc. matured along with that.
> <<That was kinda depressing when I first read it, but it's really what I think of myself, too. I just figured it's taking me a long time as an adult to learn life's lessons, longer than the average person.Please take care to avoid comparing yourself to ill-defined concepts such as the "average person". Your attention to "learn(ing) life's lessons" already sets you apart from the average. I'd suspect that many, if not most, of that hypothetical average have many such lessons to learn, but no ambition to learn them.
> >> That sounds like conditional love, to me. "I'd love you more if you were different than you naturally are."
> <<Oh, you don't know the half of it. :-)As a ten year old, you wouldn't have the ability to recognize the conditions themselves, only the message that you were somehow flawed. The latter conclusion is part of your memory of the event, so wherever and whenever you rekindle those old messages, you must reprocess the same information (i.e. what was actually said) and form a knew conclusion, that the conditions applied to the sentiment were demeaning and disrespectful, as well as being inaccurate reflections of your self.
> > > I feel things *very* deeply, good and bad.
> >
> > Me too.
> <<Makes life really rough, sometimes, doesn't it?Yes.
> But I don't think I'd change it for the world.
Nor I. So, I cry watching some commercials on TV. I also connect very deeply with people.
> Like I said, I feel the good stuff really intensely as well. I think the sunrises I see are prettier than those most of the world sees..
Yes. Great example.
> > What triggered my own journey into this realm was the realization that I did not want to be like my father, and I could already see that I was on the path to become just like him.
> <<I'm facing this with my sister-in-law now. She had a horrible mother, who was really no mother at all. And K, my sis-in-law, always said when she married and had children, she'd be the best mom in the world. I always admired her for dealing with and accepting something that to me would have been intolerable. (Her mother set K up in her own apt. at 16 because the mom's boyfriend was moving in and didn't want kids around). But now that K is a parent, she's doing *exactly* what her mom did...she hasn't bonded with her 2-year-old at all. She's now leaving my brother, out of nowhere, and leaving the baby behind as well. So *even* though she saw what she didn't like in her mom, she didn't stop herself from repeating the same mistakes.I've heard it said that the desire to change, when not accompanied by actual change, was not the desire to change at all. In other words, a person can take credit, psychologically, for having had a good idea, without ever taking the necessary steps to bring all or any of the good idea to fruition. It's one of the less beneficial aspects of human nature, I suppose.
> >> I had to change the definitions, set my own boundaries, over-ride habitual responses, develop awareness of subconscious processes
> <<What in you made you recognize that this *work* was something you had to do to be successful in life?I have to give a significant amount of credit to the friends I had when I was a young adult. They had the courage or the initiative to confront me on inappropriate behaviours, and to give me bits of advice. I always knew I was different, but without their help, I would have had a great deal of difficulty identifying specifics. It's also a trait of mine to ask for help. Unless you fall into a special environment (mandatory schooling is intended to be one such environment), that's the only way you learn anything.
> Why doesn't my sis-in-law recognize it?
I know that's a rhetorical question, but I don't know that it could be answered anyway. Maybe she thought having children would itself be sufficient opportunity to make new choices, whereas I waited and took on less demanding responsibilities, similar to an apprenticeship. If she's got it in her, I'd think that her recent experience would serve as a good motive for re-examining what happened, and taking the time to do it better, if she ever has kids again. That would be my hope, but my fear would be that she has learned nothing other than that she is damaged goods. Or, perhaps worse yet, she goes into denial, and repeats the cycle elsewhere.
> (I know you can't answer that question, it just confuses the heck out of me she has no problem at all doing what her mother did (leaving family) when she's always hated what her mom did to her..... I guess that would be like me calling any daughter I might ever have fat and dragging her to Weight Watchers at 10. :-)
I'm sure she has a problem doing that, leaving her family. I can only imagine the self-loathing that might be enveloping her now. I'm always encouraged by a line from "Stairway to Heaven"....Robert Plant sings "Yes, there are two paths you can go by, But in the long run, There's still time to change the road you're on."
I think the key awareness is that the past does not predict the future. It's never too late to try.That said, I still hear myself give voice to things my mother or father said to me.....triggered by situations, I respond without thinking. I'm not perfect. I will make mistakes. What's important is what I do about them. I apologize. I discuss it overtly. I listen. I think that's also part of successful change, the taking of responsibility for whatever comes to pass.
That's hard to apply to a situation like your sister-in-law's, dealing with an infant. But it can still be accomplished in some respects through third parties, talking it out with someone.
> >>I would never have allowed myself to have children;
> <<Yeah, I'm not too keen on having kids myself because I don't know if I'm strong enough to be a good parent. I'm glad you made the successful leap. :-)Thanks. So am I. Kids make life different, and there's no going back....
The timing issue is an important one. One of the most important words in my vocabulary is "yet". As in, "I haven't done (fill in the blank), YET." It reminds me that, when the time is right, I will do so.
Becoming conscious of self-talk, the particular subset of vocabulary I reserve for internal discussion about myself, is a critical skill to develop. Until you become conscious of your internal semantics, you may be using critical rather than descriptive language, and words with high emotional baggage attached, without realizing it. For example, "That didn't work the way I'd hoped it would." carries a far different emotional tone than, "I'm a f***-up." Yet, both may be responses to a particular event. One word that I suspect may have baggage for you is "fat". I'm sure it makes you feel a particular way.
> >> My kids get hugged all the time, ya know? I had to learn how to be different, and it worked. :-)
> <<That's the coolest! I'm happy to say that my brother (33), who also had the same emotionally dead father as I did, also loves and hugs his son all the time. Tells him how wonderful he is and how much he loves him. I think that is so great!And, it has wonderful side effects, too! I, yes *I*, get hugged all the time! You have no idea just how big a huggy-hole I had in my soul. My wounded inner child heals alongside my new behaviour.
> You take care, too. I really am going to pay my parking ticket now....
>
> SusanI don't know which I hate more, parking tickets, or having to pay for parking to avoid a parking ticket. Doesn't feel fair, even though I know all the arguments.
Hugs,
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:266817
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20031002/msgs/267711.html