Posted by shar on October 29, 2000, at 21:47:18
In reply to Re: Tribe or band of refugees? » shar, posted by KenB on October 29, 2000, at 14:20:01
Ken, let me stress and reiterate that the word tribe has more than one definition. One being yours, one being mine, and then all those dictionaries and reference manuals.
I am not, do not intend to, would not try to, and don't want to try to make a parallel between what is a tribe in my life and the precise, specific, legalistic definitions/customs/laws that come together to define a Native American tribe.
Enough said? I simply have my own opinion, cannot see how it impacts at all on the different definitions of tribe used by others, since I don't refer to those. God forbid that we are only allowed to use a word in it's strictest most legalistic form. In that case, I am sure the word refugee, as you use it, could have exactly your points made about it.
I am ready to drop this.
Shar>
> >
> > Ken,
> > Just to be clear, my use of the word tribe is based on the idea of a group of people characterized by a common "ancestry" or customs. Ancestry in the PB/PSB sense, meaning not geneology, but some shared experiences that many of us have in common. (Funk and Wagnall helped me with defining this.)
>
>
> ----The point is well made, but there remains a much closer form of sharing than this forum will ever approach. The suggestion that electronic text communication is synonymous to DNA relationships might diminish, in some people's minds, the value of deeper “tribal” relationships. Some writers and speakers have referred to casual dismissal of deeper relationships as being culturally genocidal. Among some people, “tribe” suggests meanings that go far beyond Funk and Wagnall’s definition. Funk and Wagnall is a collection of English usages, and not so much of usages common among English speaking "ethnic" groups.
>
>
> >
> > About as far away from a legalistic definition as one could get. Although, if my mom has done her geneology correctly, I am a card-carrying Native American tribe member.
>
> ----Card carrying Native American tribal members carry (or at least own) tribal ID cards. It is strictly a legal definition. Tribal membership criteria vary depending on the Indian Reorganization Act constitution adopted by a specific reservation government. If you are qualified, perhaps it would be enriching for you identify your tribal family and apply for membership. Of course, card-carrying membership does not define family ties. Familiarity with family members best defines family bonds.
>
> >My use of trickster and shaman comes from what I've read, heard, seen, about Native American culture, the pow-wows I've attended, and from the course I took on "minority literature" in which the authors were Black, Chicano, Native American.
>
> ----Exactly. The oustider's view looking in, whether looking as a reader or as a guest at social events, is often different than the members’ view as seen living on the inside.
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>
> > And, I didn't have in mind only native american tribes; but thoughts of tribal customs in African, and other tribes outside the US.
> >
> > My usage is "if the word fits, use it." Not in the least juridical.
> >
>
> ----Indeed, "fit" is a personal and subjective standard, informed by an individual's experience and background. My experience with "shamans" and "tricksters" began in my southern white christian "tribe."
>
> Sometimes the behaviors most offensive to some cultures might be considered benign and even be encouraged by others. The PsychoBabble archives offer ample evidence of such differences.
>
> Kendall
> >
> >
> > > In electronic text communication, correspondents more likely speak of tribes in terms of symbols learned from other text formats. The shamans and tricksters described in many electronic forums are more likely those that inhabit anthropology texts and Casteneda’s fiction.
> > >
> > > In Invocation, Trudell speaks of tribes in terms of deoxyribonucleic acid. He chooses text that reflects his personal experience with the mutli-generational familial bonds, and bonds with places and with the elements of nature.
> > >
> > > One writer said Trudell’s Invocation speaks of all people as now living on an industrial reservation. In “Tribal Voice” and in his other works, Trudell paints a picture of people isolated from their family. Trudell suggests a family that not only includes the direct DNA family, but also as the DNA fabric of a living eco-systems that cooperates with the people in a symbiotic relationship.
> > >
> > > The term “tribe” is but a textual construct. Some card-carrying “tribal members” say the term is a symbolic marker of ideological reservation boundaries. From the outside looking in, “tribe” can mark a reservation inhabited by chiefs, shamans and tricksters. From inside the reservation, looking out, “tribe” marks the line beyond which people confuse the bonds of family and nature with fantasies of shamans and tricksters.
> > >
> > > As the biographical sketch of Trudell (http://www.johntrudell.com/jt_bio.html) suggests, poetry for him was a form of therapy that salved the wounds of a costly civil war. The war was one in which he was regarded as incivil, yet he alleges that he and his family were treated in a most incivil manner because of his civic involvement. As a salve, written and spoken language can serve as a medium that sooths the pain of abiding within reservation boundaries. It might also serve to facilitate interaction beyond the reservation boundary.
> > >
> > > The difference in “tribe” in the familial sense, and “tribe” in the sense of a band of refugees held together by a common need, might have implications for biological psychology. The familial tribe enjoys a more intact cognitive map. Disruptions of physical and social cognitive maps might cause the same patterns of hyperalertness, over-sensitivity, profound despair and attention deficits often associated with child abuse and neglect.
> > >
> > > Perhaps this all suggests why some people question casual use of the word “tribe” to describe a loose-knit conversation among practical strangers, and at the same time why “tribe” seems such a fitting description. Perhaps we are all displaced tribal members living on an industrial reservation. Being a neighbor on the reservation does not, however, in the legal since, comprise tribal membership.
> > >
> > >
> > > > INVOCATION
> > > >
> > > > We are from the Halluca Nation
> > > > We are the tribe that they can not see
> > > > We live on an industrial reservation
> > > >
> > > > We are the Halluca Nation
> > > > We have been called the Indian
> > > > We have been called Native American
> > > >
> > > > We have been called Hostile
> > > > We have been called Pagan
> > > > We have been called Militant
> > > > We have been called everything but who we are
> > > >
> > > > We are the Halluca Nation
> > > > The human beings
> > > > They can not see us, but we can see them
> > > >
> > > > We are the Halluca Nation
> > > > Our D.N.A. is of earth and sky
> > > > Our D.N.A. is of the past and the future
> > > >
> > > > We are the Halluca Nation
> > > > We are the evolution
> > > > The continuation
> > > >
> > > > We are the Halluca Nation
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John Trudell
> > > >
> > > > http://www.johntrudell.com/jt_bio.html
> > > >
> > > > poetry stolen from: http://www.worldofpoetry.org/usop/faces13.htm
poster:shar
thread:1667
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20001011/msgs/1845.html