Posted by Vincent_QC on March 6, 2009, at 10:10:21
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Vincent_QC, posted by myco on March 5, 2009, at 21:47:03
> Hi Vince,
>
> Getting Marplan up here is taking forever for you. My understanding is that through the 'special access program', the govt body dealing with importation of non-Canadian meds, you need to be assessed in terms of need, correct? So just simply requesting a med we dont have in distribution from another country isn't good enough I think. I think you have to show serious need and failure at available meds here in Canada before you can be considered...this is your case not mine since I havent tried every med out there and dont even have a pdoc. I think my chances are next to nil for Marplan. But thats ok, Nardil is very effective for me, at least for now. I am patient with the meds that I take when I take them...but I am always looking out for options...just in my nature I guess.
>
> Vince that sensation of pins and needles you mention on Clomipramine sounds like NE stimulatory effect to me man...why does it bother you?...I enjoyed that part of nardil, I still have it to a subtle extent. It reminds me it's working still, the only positive physical reminder.
>
> Nortrip and desip have always interested me, as well as doxypin. I'm toying with augment options I can take that wont mezmorize my family doctor like a deer in headlights. He doesnt like the idea of maoi+tca regardless of the studies I show him. So i'm using supplements like tyrosine, 5htp and about to start mucuna pruriens for extra dopamine...of course in very small doses because of the maoi interaction.
>
> My sleep is alot better now that I have been given seroquel. I also take scullcap extract (works like a benzo) to relax me until seroquel puts me out. Usually 5-6h is typical but I will up the dose to 50mg i'm sure shortly.
>
> I still want to try gabapentin or especially lyrica for sleep...I'm also thinking about the idea of getting multiple dr's, until I get a pdoc, but I'm not sure it's a good idea...what happens if they find out? Like one is rx'n nardil for me but hates benzo's...so I get a benzo from another then another I get a tca or something from unknowing i'm on nardil LOL jesus man this is sneaky sh*t here...lol...my conscience would eat me up. I dont know if lieing like that is a good idea despite the lack of proper treatment dealing with family dr's.
>
> anyway,
> take care Vince...try to get some enjoyment in your life also man...anything to smile and laugh ya know
>
> myco
>
>Hi Myco!
You're right, the SPA programm have hard standards of selection and if you want to be approved for the SPA programm, you need a PDoc, a family Doctor or a regular Doctor will not be accepted, well I don't think so...that's a long process and I don't know all the steps of it...but I know that someone work hard on it for me, and that it will take some more times to recieve an answer. Like I was saying, a Pharmacist from the Psychiatrict hospital where I go take care of it for me...I'm glad the Nardil is still working for you. Did you feel some effect on your SAD??? What kind of SAD did you have??? Is it worse when you are alone in a public place or it's a general social anxiety problem, mean that alone or with friends you feel always anxious in a social situation??? Mine is genreal...and more higher when i'm alone of course...just going to the shopping center make me really anxious...it take so many times before I even go out of the house and get ready to go there that I finally don't go... I avoid a lot social situations...more when i'm alone... That's crazy cause sometimes I think about it and I say to myself that's if I look around me, a lot of people are more ugly than me...so why I feel so anxious and shy... and why I lack a lot of social abilities like this??? I mean that i'm a nice guy, I think i'm looking really good, but I can't even meet new peoples and I lack any social skills...that's weird...anyway...
I got nothing really fabulous from the Nardil except that I was able to reduce my benzos intake on it...at 90mg I got this really "nice" hypotension problem that's is often present with the MAOI's...so I just stop, after more than 3 months, I was tired of wating for a positive answer. It was not a bad experience, but it was not working for me. Some people seem to put a lot of believe into the gaba-ergic effect of it but I don't believe it's really important since the Parnate seem to lack this gaba effect and had a more pronounced effect on me for the SAD and it was a really fast relief of my SAD, the first week I start it...but too bad I got too much hypertension or hypertensives crisis on it...Anyway...I think I drop it out too fast...
The NE effect of the Clomipramine can't be the good explanation of the strange pins and needles sensation I got from it. If you look close into the wikipedia website and you search for imipramine, you will fall on a "table" who show how amounts of SE, NE, DA, as well as others things some TCA's and some SRRI's affects...that's interresting to see the Clomipramine don't seem to affect a lot the NE...that's almost neutral for the NE...the SE effect of the Clomipramine is something like 200 times more higher than the one on the NE...so I don't know if it's comming from the NE effect or not, that's probably from another blocking effect , maybe the alpha???
I got also that pins and needles effect when I was on the Gabapentin med, and as far as I know, it's not acting on the SE or the NE or the DA...that's purely a blocking effect of the Gaba-B type of receptors...
I don't know if it's a good idea to get more than one Doctor to have access to meds you want to add to your Nardil... I still have a family Doctor who prescribe to me the Seroquel and I try to get some meds as an augmentation for the Clomipramine as well as a more high dose of Parnate when I try it in december, I wanted to add some Baclofen med on the top of the Clomipramine, my PDoc don't want to try the Baclofen on me so I try to have it with my family Doctor, I show to him some studies about it...and he say NO because he say that the agonist effect of the Gaba-B of the Baclofen was never use off-label as an anxiolitic med in the Canada...and he don't want to be responsable of bad med interraction...
I think that your Pharmacist can discover the fact that you have more than one Doctor and he can call one of your Doctors and ask why you have some meds prescribed for you that cannot be uses at the same time than other ones...it's why I always fear to procced like this.,.
I also now understant that it's important to follow the instruction of your Doctor...I was always finding myself to take higher dosage of my meds and I drop out severals meds because I got too much side-effects on them..but it was because I Wanted to go too fast... I still have some difficulties to wait before seing some improvements and I still drop often some meds rapidly before I can say if it's really work or not...
Normally, i'm good to predict if a med will work or not, so it's why I drop out a lot of meds after only 3 or 4 weeks... Sometimes I can feel on the first dose of a med I take that I will wait 1-2 or 3 months for nothing...I'm very sensible to the side-effects and normally they don't fade away on me...
Well, for now, the Nortryptiline give me a high pulse rate for maybe 2 hours, my heart race fast on it, especially 1 1/2 hours after I take my first 10mg dose in the morning, it's worse when I take the second 10 mg dose at noon...Yesterday, my pulse rate go up to 145...and I Was not doing anything physically...I was just lying in my bed all day long... My blood pressure was ok...120/80... so I think this side-effect will fade away with time...I hope...that's probably the NE effect...and I don't get the pins and needles effect that I experienced with the Clomipramine but I can say that for now, the Nortryptiline is A WAY more activating than the Clomipramine and it make me a little bit nervous, but nothing to drop it out already...all the antidepressants increase a little bit the anxiety level at first...I incrase my Valium intake for now...nothing really important...20 to 30mg maximum daily...I will withdraw it when I will be less anxious...
For now, all I hope is to have access to the Marplan. I don't have a good feeling about TCA's, studies over the years show a not so good effect on the SAD with the use of TCA's...and for now, the only antidepressants who give to me a "partial" answering are the MAOI's...so it will be probably the only category of meds who will help me...
I just trying the TCA's to make sure I don't make a mistake to not trying them and I want to give to them a try at least... Health Canada will not be able to said that I don't try everything at least...
If i'm not accepted for the importation of the Marplan, I will maybe ask to return on the Parnate at a really small dosage (20mg) and wait to see what happen...maybe add something to reduce my hypertension on it will help me...
If the Nortryptiline work and I get a positive answer for the Marplan, I will drop out the Nortryptiline for sure and jump into the Marplan.
You see, I have a lot of others options...I just don't feel very positives about the TCA's... at least, I don't put a lot of pressure on me and on them... I see the TCA's options as a temporary solution, until I recieve an answer for the Marplan.
Well, i'm glad the Seroquel make you sleep at least 5-6 hours...that's what I get from it at first...the main problem is that I always think my energy level at daytime was linked to the numbers of hours of sleep I get from the night....but I see now that's even if I sleep more than 8 hours in a row, I'm still very tired at daytime...so i'm probably more depressive than I think. But that's normal to be depressive when everything you try since more than 2 years fails...
That's a really hard situation and I don't wish this to anyone else...social anxiety disorder with others co-morbidities is a really hard mental illiness to treat... I really hope you will find a way to get more well soon!!! You deserve it also!!!
Well , I have to go for now, but if you want to talk, I will be always here for you!!!
Take care of you and keep the faith!!!
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
poster:Vincent_QC
thread:882809
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090304/msgs/884066.html