Posted by Vincent_QC on February 12, 2009, at 6:29:44
In reply to Re: Marplan - Maybe to scared to go back!, posted by Cseagraves on February 10, 2009, at 14:16:28
> Hi again to all!
>
> Went to go and see my GP today and told him what had been going on. We had a long talk and he gave me a book to read by David Brownstein, MD called "Drugs that don't work". I'm sure some of you are already aware of this information, but wanted to write some of what is said about the use of ssri's.
>
> The brain works to try and maintain homestasis. During stressful situation, the brain will increase the productin of certain neurotransmitters (adrenaline) and hormones (nonadrenaline) to help the body respond to stress. During relaxation, other neurotransmitters (seratonin) and hormones (melatonin) are produced to help the body relax.
>
> Many things can disrupt the brain's ability to maintain homeostasis. Nutritional deficiencies can disrupt many vital functions in the body, including the maintenance of homeostasis. When there are vitamin and mineral deficiencies, the body will be unable to create the precursors necessary for the adequate production of neurotransmitters and hormones If the body does not have the basic raw materials to manufacture the substances it desires, homeostasis cannot be maintained. The end results of these deficiencies are the onset of chronic illness such as depression, anxiety, ADHD, cancer and fatigue.
>
> Drugs can also disrupt the brains ability to achieve and maintain homeostasis. Drugs that block receptors or poison enzymes will, by their nature, disrupt the normal functioning of the body. The end result of many drug therapies is an inability of the body to achieve and maintain homeostasis.
>
> The most commonly used antidepressant drugs all block receptors or poison enzymes in the brain, as well as in other tissues in the body. For the ssri's the substance that is most commonly disrupted is serotonin. It is impossible to achieve your optimal health by poisoning a crucial enzyme or blocking an important receptor for the long-term.
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> It is known that serotonin can affect many different areas of the brain by binding to its receptors. However, the effect of serotonin is not consistent between different individuals In some, it may cause happiness; in others sadness.
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> According to the Big Pharma, serotonin deficiency is thought to underlie many cases of depression. Big Pharma has created a whole class of medications that poison an important enzyme in order to promote higher serotonin levels in the brain. In order for the cells of the brain to communicate with one another, there has to be adequate amounts of all of the neurotransmitters. The brain cannot think, feel, keep us alert, or perform any of its vital functions without the optimal production and ratio of neurotransmitters.
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> SSRI's are the most widely prescribed psychiatric medications and generate billions of dollars in sales. According the Big Pharma, the ssri's were developed to lessen the side effects associated with the older classes of antidepressants. Furthermore, the newer classes of antidepressants were touted as more effective than the older classes of medications.
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> Unfortunately, the research has shown that the ssri's are neither more effective nor have few side effects as compared to the older class of antidepressants. The ads for the antidepressants claim that antidepressant medications, especially ssri's, effectively treat imbalances in the neurotransmitters. The imbalance is generally referred to as a serotonin deficiency. It is interesting that patients are being told they have a serotonin imbalance or a chemcial imbalance in their brain even though they have never had their serotonin levels measured.
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> Big Pharma would have you believe that low levels of neurotransmitters such as serotonin and/or dopamine are the underlying causes of depression. Therefore, Big Pharma's logic would dictate that in order to elevate the low levels, ou need a drug that blocks the reuptake of the neurotransmitters.
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> However, Big Pharma's logic does not make sense We must keep in mind that depression is not an illness that is caused by an "antidepressant medication deficiency". If someone is deficient in a neurotransmitter(s), then why not supplement with the agent(s) necessary to increase the neurotransmitters?
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> Serotonin reuptake inhibitors have been studied for over 25 years. Although Big Pharma would have you believe otherwise, little is known about much of the effects of serotonin (or the other neurotransmitters) in the brain Big Pharma gives doctors seminars and glossy brochures telling them the virtues of blocking the reuptake of serotonin in the brain. Over 90% of the body's serotonin is produced OUTSIDE the brain. What are the consequences of blocking the reuptake of serotonin outside the brain? No one knows. There have been no studies looking at this.
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> Anyway, he goes on to talk more about healthy levels of amino acids in the body. That a deficiency in tryptophan can lead to a deficiency in a serotonin. He also talks about unbalanced hormones in women and vitamin D deficiency can cause depression and anxiety, which I am deficient in both, but am working hard to get them straight.
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> All I know is that until about a year ago, I could handle my little anxieties with small doses of zanax. Because of alot of stressful things that were going on at that time, I had my first nervous breakdown. My pdoc (at the time) decided that he thought I was bi-polar, which I totally disagreed with. I showed no symptoms of that condition. The conditions that were very apparent, were extreme anxiety and panic. He decided to put me on Seroquel, which was some god awful sh*t. He would'nt listen to me when I tried to tell him that I couldn't handle the med at the dosage he was trying to get me to which was 400mgs daily.
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> So, I switched pdocs. The new one agreed that I wasn't bi-polar. Extreme GAD and Panic, which has now led itself into agoraphobia. Since then every med I have tried I have had severe reactions to. I am more upset now that I probably never needed an anti-psychotic to begin with and all of these different ssris, tca's and now trying an maoi has made my condition worse instead of better.
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> Not sure what to do at this point. I have alot of thinking to do. I'm sure that starting me out at 10 mgs of Marplan was to high a dosage and I should have known better. My head has still not quit spinning and nauseau is still very persistant. Legs feel like jelly and still have awful headache, feel almost like flu symptoms. Not sure how much of this is med and how much of this is nerves at this point.
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> I know everyone is different and responds to meds differently, but I don't think I can handle feeling like this anymore trying any more meds. Am even to scared at this point to try Marplan at a lower dosage.
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> I will be discussing things further with pdoc in a couple of days.
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> Thanks for listening and all of your advice.
>
> Courtney
>
Hi Courtney...
Well...that's a long post. I have to admit that i'm not with you at 100% on that one and I will explain why...The main problem is that since the 50's, not a lot of things improve in the psychiatric field. They work around chimical drug who act on SE, NE and DA as well as others neurons in the brains...All begin with the MAOI's...at the same time, the BIG pharma industry decide that they was too dangerous so they developp others drugs who became the TCA's...Impramine was the first one...the work around it, clean up the drug a little bit and others TCA's became avaible on the market...they was suppose to have fewer side-effects but we all know that it was not the case, since everybody react differently to a drug...And the same process apply now, the developp the SSRI's drugs who was suppose to be less dangerous with less side-effects...but that's was not the case also...they work on SE and NE (dual) AD's and now they work on a newer SE, NE, DA (triple action) that will hit the market soon...
The biggest problem is that nobodies seem to know why some people get depressive, phobic, anxious or developp others psychiatric problems...It seem that newer psychiatrict disease also occur with the change in the society...Social anxiety is one of them... I do believe that something is not well balanced in the brains of people with this kind of disease, but I do believe also that the SOCIETY is responsable of all the problems also...The lifestyle is now really stressfull, everybody need to be more productivce and more competitive, we live in a world where apparence are more important than the inside of the people, I mean that if you don't fit in the "standards" of this new society, you will be exclude...and I think that this exclusion is mostly responsable of the way people feels today...and i'm not surprise that more and more people get sick, depressive and anxious...
I don't think that psychiatrict diseases are well understand by Doctors, PDoc or any Doctor in the research field and I do belive that the SE or the NE or the DA is responsable of the improve that people find on drugs like AD's.
If you look in the litterature from the 50's to the 21 century...not a lot of things improve, in fact, old drugs like the MAOI's or the TCA's are more effective than the newer drugs, but since the BIG pharma don't want to make some REAL studies comparing older drugs with newer drugs, we will never know if the newer drugs are effective or not...
One thing is sure, when it's time to choose a new way to treat and control my social phobia and my general anxiety and depression, I always think about old drugs cause they are the most studies drugs on the Market, they are cheap, you are sure that you don't give your money to the BIG Pharma compagny and they give at least some improve and positives results... The newer drugs are always worst, the have more side-effects and I still don'T understant why the FDA or health Canada approved them and claim that they work more well than the olders drugs and that they are less dangerous then the MAOI or the TCA's...
One thing is sure also, it's seem to be a real "genetic" factor to the psychiatricts diseases. So the SE, NE or DA seem to not be the only neurons affects on these diseases...The fact is that the brain is a very difficult organ to study and the science is not well developp for now... I don't think the research field go in the good direction for now and they don't point out the goods things to hit in the brains to make drugs effective...
So I understand why you feel angry against Big Pharma, like I already wrote, we are all in the same boat...We all hate trying newer AD's or drugs, we all hate side-effects...but we all looking for some improvements... Some people are lucky and answer well to drugs and others like US don't answer well and have to try everything on the Market use on-label and off-label to treat and control their disease...I'm also a LOT TIRED of trying new drugs and always have to switch from a drug to another one each 3 months or so. Sometimes I just wondering if I don't just loose my time and if it will be a better idea to stop trying and taking any drugs at all and just continue to live my life the best I Can...Other days I feel that I have to continue and I believe that I will find the magic pill to treat me...Anyway...
Now i'm in the same boat than you...I'm over anxious, i'm doing at least 3 panic attacks by day for no appareant reason, I'm always tired, I have no memory, I feel like an old person of 90 years old, with no memory at all and like I just wating to die...(Sorry, I don't want to offense people)...it's the way I feel. The worst in all that, is that i'm only 33yo...and I have nothing in my life, no money, no job, I never finish the University, that a miracle that I Was able to go to the university anyway, I have only one bed and some furnitures that's it...It's all what I was able to achieve in my life... I canno't make new friends, I have a 0 social life (only one friend), nothing interrest me now, i'm aphatic as hell, I don't care about anything except my own health, I have tons of student loans to refund ( 20 000$) but i'm in a freaking mental health that just getting worse since 2 years...I don't eat well, I don't exercise, I need to diet and exercise and stop smooking, I have to end my last year at the university (but I don't have any interrest in my studies field now, I lost it sometimes in the 2 years break I take from the school)... I have so many things in my head that I canno't improve...I'm just too much anxious about everything that it make me a bitter person... No wonder why nobody in the real life want to be my friend...because i'm just really difficult to handle in real person...I'm negative as hell but I try to change but that's not working, I don't like people in general, i'm not smilling, i'm shy but at the same time I can be really direct with the others...that's so weird...I suffer from social anxiety but at the same time I hate all the people around me(that I didn't know) and I like to schock them... That's a lot of contradictions no???
Well i'm completly lost in the subject now...
I just want to tell you that i'm with you at 100%. Follow your PDoc directives and be carefull with yourself ok...take it easy..I know that's easy to write but not to do...i'm in the same boat than you remember this and you're not the only one who feel like you feel now... The magic pill don't exist so we have to cope with life the best we can...
Take care of you Courtney ok!!!
Vincent ;-)
poster:Vincent_QC
thread:879090
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090203/msgs/879586.html