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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 19:27:00
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » alexandra_k, posted by anastasia56 on April 25, 2005, at 17:46:22
> i wouldn't read your father into this any more than to say he wasn't giving you the affection a child needs..
Yeah. Thats the yukiest part of it all... I try not to go there. But the thought did occur to me, that was true.
>you went elsewhere to find it. where you got it wasn't as important to you at the time as just having someone hold you.
Yeah. Thats why I don't really consider it 'abuse' or at least that is why I am really ambivalent about calling it 'abuse'. Because I asked for it. I mean that literally. I really did and at least part of me wanted it. And that was the part that I showed to them. So it wasn't really abuse. Thats what I figure anyway. I mean, I understand that they shouldn't have done that and they shouldn't have put me in that position in the first place and they were married and in a position of authority etc etc. But they didn't see any part of me as unwilling - and I never showed them that part (aside from almost crying with the first one) but I kept that part well hidden after that.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 19:54:17
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on April 25, 2005, at 18:11:08
> You are so incredibly brave, and I am so immensely proud to be your friend and to know you.
And you Damos. I feel the same way about you. I was staggered by your openness and honesty with what you shared over on social about this. And over on social! I have to admit that I bring stuff over here because of the smaller audience. Maybe it is just the illusion of a smaller audience, but things feel smaller and more intimate and private over here than on social.
> What you don't know about me is that for the last 9 years I have shared a house with a woman who MS (Multiple Sclerosis) and am now essentially her de-facto carer.You never came right out and said that but you have said that you lived with a woman with MS before. So I kind of figured that part of it...
Wow Damos.
Really.I digress...
But this is sort of (sort of) relevant (I think).I got on really great with one of my teachers at high school. English was my favourite subject and we had to journal. I used to pour my guts out in my journal. Write poems and short stories and philosophical rambellings. I used to go and talk to her as well. About how sh*tty my life was etc etc. Eventually... (once I was 16) she told me that she had feelings for me. I told her that I had feelings for her too (and after some thought I made that conscious decision - and then, well, then I really did believe it was true.) She was in a relationship with another woman (who was very sick) but they were fighting and stuff. And she would leave and come and get me and we would go and stay at a motel. That happened a few times. Her partner confronted her (realising she was pretty distracted) and she 'fessed up. Her partner started writing letters to the school. Giving them to kids to hand in to the office on their way to the school. Ringing the school pretending to be a concerned parent. Ringing my house and threatening (anonymously) to do drive-bys etc etc. The school found out (funnily enough) and everyone at school found out. I had to leave - and she did too. She managed to get a job at another school. She managed to get home and get some stuff. But the upshot was that she lost her job her house most of her stuff - most of everything for me. We moved in together. I was with her for 4 years.
She got pretty controlling. Jealous I suppose. She didn't like me hanging with my friends (admittedly we used to drink and drug and do 'kid stuff). After a while I was just home and school, home and school. But she helped me return to finish my last year (at another school) so I could go to uni which was what I most wanted to do. But I really don't think I could have done that on my own.
She helped me through my first year at uni. Proofreading my work etc. After the first 6 months... I realised that I didn't love her 'like that'. I had never wanted to touch her in that way. Kissing was ok. But that was all. But after 6 months I didn't even like that anymore. I didn't mind her touching me. But after a while I didn't even really like that. But she had given up everything for me. And I felt so bad, so very bad that I didn't feel that way about her. I thought there was somthing really very wrong with me that I couldn't feel that way about her. I guess she realised this - and that was why she turned controlling and didn't like me going out. Because she was worried I would meet someone else and realise that I felt that way about them and then I would leave her.
(Maybe thats what your 'partner' realises and is afraid of with you. Maybe thats why she feels so insecure and calls all the time and doesn't like you having a life apart from her).
Eventually... Eventually... I couldn't get out of bed in the morning and I ended up in hospital with a major depressive episode. I couldn't tell anyone what was going on for me because the nurses were giving my partner a hard time about being with me already. And if I had told anyone how I felt (even my t) then she would have written it in my file and the nurses would have told my partner or maybe even showed her. And I made the decision that I would NEVER tell her that I didn't reciprocate those feelings because she had given up EVERYTHING for me.
I was sick for a long time. In hospital more than out for about 2 years. In hindsight hospital was preferable than attempting to keep up the charade at home. Death was preferable to having to tell her the truth. I felt so very guilty. And eventually (what I most wanted I suppose) she couldn't handle being with me anymore and she asked me to move out. And I did - into supported accomodation. I was so totally afraid that I wouldn't be able to do varsity without her. I would panic about not doing very well and end up back in hospital with compassionate withdrawals. Eventually I made it through a semester part time and got marks in the 90's. I COULD do it without her. Wow. But it almost killed me. Literally.
And that is a ramble...
And in hindsight...
It was just the same thing as with those guys.
I didn't see it that way at the time
But I see it that way now.
And wow.
I have never told anybody that before.((((Damos))))
Wow. I don't know what to say.
You are so very caring
So very caring
To do that for someone.
But...
But...
It is too much.
You do deserve true love
And I really do believe that it IS possible for you.
You have given up yourself.
Your life.
And you do deserve a life.
And you are capable of having one.
But it is a sh*t of a situation.
(((Damos)))
Hon.
I don't know what to say.
Except that - we are here for you.
Really.
We are here.
Posted by Damos on April 25, 2005, at 20:21:00
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 19:54:17
Thank you so much for sharing that with I know it can't have been easy. You are so very kind and so very deeply beautiful. My love, respect and admiration for you just continues to grow.
It is immensely difficult to love and care for someone who can make it so terribly hard to even like them, and who can be mercilessly cruel at times. Watching her become more and more disabled isn't easy either. She is also 11 years older than me just for the record. She has also been beaten by previous partners and her ex husband was a violent alcoholic. Somehow I have never been hospitalised, more by luck than good management I think but I know that my chronic long cycling depression has begun to cycle more rapidly in recent years.
I guess the hardest part is that while she's been getting worse I've been working on myself like over on social and growing in many ways. Still struggling on many fronts but feeling things changing inside.
One of the reasons I don't have a computer at home now is that she used to stand over me when I was on it which was almost never and I actually caught her listening to a phone call once - from my boss, I mean really. But I still care about this person and what happens to her despite all this. I'm getting better at pushing back but feel guilty for wanting to live.
Another thing I haven't told anyone is that the last time I did 'it' it left me feeling so cheap and used and worthless and dirty that I rushed out and threw up repeatedly and then just sat in the shower for what seemed like hours. And this was with the woman I had almost had a child with. I told her I had a stomach upset - I can be really pathetic when I want to be. A week later I happened across her at it with someone else. It was a bit hard not to since they were in the lounge room when I came home. It was about that time that I realised that I meant absolutely nothing to anyone.
Sorry to ramble.
((((((((((Alex))))))))))
Posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 13:43:28
In reply to Re: three things, Alex » sunny10, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 19:22:46
It's not created to prevent us from having kids, sweetie, don't go to that negative thought.
If ANYTHING, it HELPS us to not repeat those same patterns over and over and hurting ourselves more than we're healing, okay?!?
LET the meds be okay, let them do for you what they can. Try not to place negative connotations on them because that will lead to you feeling like you should get off them because "the establishment is controlling you". Chemicals don't control you or create feelings, people do.
Use the meds to help you. Use them to free your mind to find other ways to create bonds of affection. That's what it is we've been searching for, Alex. We didn't get that from our parents like we should have.
I know it sounds like I'm lecturing- and maybe this time I am. I KNOW that EfexxorXR allowed me to make rational choices that had nothing to do with the "feel good chemicals" that sex produces. Those chemicals lulled me into a false sense of security and feeling of "being loved" many many many times that ended in me getting hurt before I started taking EfexxorXR.
And I'm not taking it any more simply because I don't need it right now. But I will take it again when I need it again (I am a notoriously long cycler).
Lecturing with love,
sunny10
Posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 13:51:22
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on April 25, 2005, at 20:21:00
you guys...
both of your stories sound similar to mine in one way- we all "care for others at personal risk and pain to ourselves" because we are still looking for unconditional love that we should have received as children.
we need to risk hurting someone else once in a while in order to save ourselves....
Mind you, I'm not sure HOW to accomplish the things we need, but our stories all tell what NOT to do, that's for sure...
I guess I'm just trying to say that we must keep remembering that we are not in this alone.
We have each other and for that I am truly grateful.
hugs and kisses,
sunny10
Posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 17:14:59
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 19:54:17
I've lost count of how many times I've read these posts, wanting to know and feel everything you went through and still carry with you. Wanting to take all the suffering, guilt,hurt,pain, fear, sadness, everthing, on as my own and to give you only love and warmth and joy and hope in return. I would gladly take it all if it meant you having the space to heal - gladly.
You're a very, very special young lady Alex.
(((((Alex)))))
Posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 17:21:38
In reply to Re: we need to take care of us, for a change, posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 13:51:22
Thank you Sunny. So knowing and so giving when you're going through so much.
You're an amazing person and I'm so glad to share this place with you.
And you're right Effexor XR was like a window openning to show me a glimpse of what could be.
Hug and kisses to you too.
Damos
Posted by sunny10 on April 27, 2005, at 9:15:53
In reply to Re: we need to take care of us, for a change » sunny10, posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 17:21:38
Please feel free to ignore my post and respond to the others, okay?!?
Sorry... sometimes I am too practical...it is difficult to always respond emotionally...
with much love and sincere apologies,
sunny10
Posted by Susan47 on April 27, 2005, at 13:11:42
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you, posted by sunny10 on April 27, 2005, at 9:15:53
I know you didn't post to me, but I'm wondering if you're being super-sensitive today, Sunny? You didn't say anything wrong ...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 27, 2005, at 18:18:12
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you, posted by sunny10 on April 27, 2005, at 9:15:53
Yeah Sunny - you didn't do anything wrong.
(Thanks for that Susan).
I'm being quiet because I am thinking...
That is it.
Really.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2005, at 4:58:15
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you » sunny10, posted by alexandra_k on April 27, 2005, at 18:18:12
And I said it before. Right here.
>Yeah. I guess I really discovered that one at 14. I realised I was too old for people to care about me like a kid, where sex wasn't a part of that. And that I had missed out on that anyways, it was too late because my parents didn't love me. And nobody would ever love me like they were supposed to have because nobody else was my parents (I used to fantasise that I was adopted so I might have a better chance with some other peoples). And I was too old anyway. It was too late for me. So I thought that the way that you got love as an adult was to have an 'adult' relationship and that meant sex.And it is too late.
That is it. That is what hurts so much.
That my father left when I needed him.
And that my life turned to sh*t after that.
And there isn't anything in the world that can make up for that or repair that or make that any better or make that go away.And I suppose all I really want is for someone to love me like that. Like I'm a little kid. Their little kid and they love me.
But it ain't gonna happen
It COULDN'T happen because I'm not a little kid
And I'm not THEIR little kid
And because it is too late anyway.And nothing in the world can change that.
And that is what is wrong.
Posted by dove on April 28, 2005, at 9:42:20
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2005, at 4:58:15
Everyone's honesty and sensitivity has moved me greatly, so I will take my own leap of faith...
It is being "chosen" by someone.
Someone, whom is worthy deems me worthy
A being of value wants me
wants my attention, affection
wants to feel me
to look at me
to hear my thoughts
They have chosen to love me
and maybe now I don't feel so worthless...True, maybe they are just using me
or perhaps, I am using them
in this twisted reality
but it feels like I am more than ordinary
less than undesirable.I left my husband for a short period two years ago.
To be with a man of great physical
and intellectual attractiveness
who adored me, controlled me.
Who gave me unwavering attention.
Who gave me undying affection.
Eventually--two weeks after we met--he demanded
that I divorce my husband
and marry him (I did not).Soon, I was not allowed to leave the house except
to go directly to work and back.
I was not even allowed to use the bathroom alone.
He made all my meals and stared at me while I ate them.
He forcefully embedded himself into every aspect of my existence.He became violent and psychotic when I tried to leave.
He stalked me for over a year.
He tried to chop me up with a sword
because I didn't love him enough.
The only reason I am currently free of him
is because he is locked up.
It is not necessarily finished yet...Additionally, I became pregnant by this man
who controlled every med I put in my mouth.
Who allowed me to overdose and kept me
locked in his room unconscious for three days.However, the real tragedy occurred not to me
but to my family.
I had hurt my family enormously.
I had rejected them all for a fling.
Rejected them so I could feel adored.
Realizing only after the injuries were committed
that this does not constitute real love.Real love does not promote itself.
Real love does not indulge every whim
in order to keep you within it's grasp.
Real love has real boundaries
real attachments,
responsibilities,
and it has a conscience.It desires to be reciprocated of free will
and free of charge.
It does not demand superiority.
It does not continuously exploit vulnerabilities
to its advantage.
It is not a cage, a prison or a punishment.
It is not a taskmaster, a slave owner, a warden.
If it resembles any of these
it is a liar.dove
Posted by sunny10 on April 28, 2005, at 11:33:55
In reply to Re: Crap, posted by dove on April 28, 2005, at 9:42:20
that was beautiful, dove.
And the idealist in me wants a real love like that, too.
Thank you for putting it into words.
Posted by sunny10 on April 28, 2005, at 11:37:19
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2005, at 4:58:15
I think we need this love because it is unconditional, Alex. Or, at least, it's supposed to be.
That's what we crave. We don't need someone to feed us ice cream and take us to the park. We need a love like dove wrote about. Someone to love us BECAUSE of and INSPITE of who we really are. That's what real love should be.
To be cherished is my goal; no matter my age,
sunny10
Posted by anastasia56 on April 28, 2005, at 13:07:33
In reply to Re: Crap, posted by dove on April 28, 2005, at 9:42:20
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:22:59
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2005, at 4:58:15
And I've never heard our problems put in quite that way before but it's exactly right, exactly true.
Can we FIX OURSELVES??????
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:28:26
In reply to Re: Crap, posted by dove on April 28, 2005, at 9:42:20
Your words are worthy of repetition.
They will go into a diary.
To be read over and over again
A role model for love.
Something I can aspire to
because I've failed too badly
for too long.
Posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 16:06:47
In reply to Re: Crap, posted by dove on April 28, 2005, at 9:42:20
I have goosebumps reading this. Really. You express things in a way that cuts to the heart of the matter without distraction. Amazing insight. You are an amazing writer and an extremely interesting person (in a wonderful way). I hope you find this (or a future) leap of faith lands you on solid, secure ground. Because I can hear you seeking it profoundly. Do not ever give up.
Posted by Damos on April 28, 2005, at 17:29:38
In reply to Re: Crap, posted by dove on April 28, 2005, at 9:42:20
Thank you so much dove, so very much, that was incredible.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 18:33:27
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » PM80, posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 19:17:33
>> I have been thinking about how sometimes you can say something and it changes things forever.
Alex, the only thing what you posted could possibly change is to deepen and strengthen the immense respect and admiration your friends here have for you.
Nothing else.
Well, except we may love you a bit more, too.
Because it's awfully hard NOT to love someone more
Who is so real and brave and really just trying
So da*n hard to get better and understand herself
And everything and everyone else.
You just keep posting. Don't be afraid.
Some of those fears and feelings you've never told are literally like poison.
So you have to just get them OUT and away from the precious core of your being.
Shine a light on most anything and it will
Lose its ugly, shadowy power, if that makes sense.
Babblers will help you hold up that bright,
Beautiful, illuminating light.
I, for one, can't wait to see even more glimpses of the awesome, loving soul in there.
And we all - and more importantly YOU - can see it much more clearly after we
Pour out the poison and.
Purge the demons of fear and shame.You keep posting anything you want.
Anything.
You don't even have to make eye contact ;-)
(((alex)))
Posted by Damos on April 28, 2005, at 19:19:14
In reply to Re: Alex? I'm sorry if I've offended you, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2005, at 4:58:15
Oh Alexandra,
I can't believe I didn't see this post before. As much as it hurts to admit it you are right. But what we can do is love that part of you with every thing we have, cherishing it, nurturing it, giving the space and safety to be all that it wants and needs to be. Please Alex don't close yourself down to the hope and wondrous possibilties of love however it might find you, because there are so many here wishing and wanting it for you.
LOVE,LOVE,LOVE>ALEX<LOVE,LOVE,LOVE
Posted by dove on April 29, 2005, at 9:48:45
In reply to Re: Crap » dove, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 16:06:47
Wow! You all seriously rock! Talk about support, thank you all for letting me share and accepting me just as I am.
Part of why I wanted to share was to express both the want of needing unconditional love, and the fact that I have abused this privilege when it was given to me.
I am blessed with an incredible husband, and some amazing children, all of whom I have direly injured. I do love them with all my heart, however, it was "I" who behaved in a completely unloving manner; and it was me, who took advantage of their unconditional love.
I guess I needed to acknowledge that fact.
Thank you for rewarding my leap!
dove
Posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 12:08:30
In reply to Re: Crap crap crap » alexandra_k, posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 18:33:27
Posted by 10derHeart on April 30, 2005, at 11:15:38
In reply to That was so true, Tenderheart (nm) » 10derHeart, posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 12:08:30
Posted by alexandra_k on April 30, 2005, at 16:06:25
In reply to : - ) it's alex...she inspires me...and so do you (nm) » Susan47, posted by 10derHeart on April 30, 2005, at 11:15:38
Sorry I went all quiet on you guys.
Lovely responses peoples :-)
I have been thinking about this..
And..
It is time for me to put it away for a while.
Getting back to 'functioning' and school mode and so it isn't to helpful to me to be ruminating on this topic.
But: there is stuff there.
One day.
I shall return.
This is the end of the thread.
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