![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 11, 2006, at 12:41:45
Okay, so I speak English, not American..... and I live in Europe. (Here phds take 3 years! I hear its more like 7 in the states !!! Why does it take so long?)
But I'm a tad confused.... what exactly is a grad student?
Is it someone studying for a phd? Masters? Whats a typical phd schedule type thing look like, ie how many years, doing what etc etc.
So if you're a masters student (ie already hold a batecholors) are you then a grad student?
And what are 'quals'??
I ran across this comic strip and its pretty funny, although I'm somewhat confused by the terminology...
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Jost on November 11, 2006, at 17:37:33
In reply to What exactly is a Grad student?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 11, 2006, at 12:41:45
Well, it's kind of like this, Meri:
High School: 10-12th grades--
College: four years, lots of floundering, unless you know what you want to do--
Graduate School:
A. Master Degree-- usually one or two years, leads to MA, MS or occasionally, MPhil
---MPhil (Master of Philosophy) is granted in some programs that don't give a terminal MA-- if you get the PhD, and you kind of get that on the way--- although you could get that if you got into the PhD program and didn't finish for some reason, and they don't give an MA
B. PhD
--usually about two years of course work in a field, then an oral or written comprehensive exam, possibly in several fields of specialties within the general field
--then a thesis, which is supposedly an original contribution to scholarship, book length or so, which eventually could be published as your first book, and which often sets the field in which you would be hired to teach--
at least that's my experience.
So, can you explain how the British system works-- A levels, and all that?
Jost
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 3:17:24
In reply to Re: What exactly is a Grad student?, posted by Jost on November 11, 2006, at 17:37:33
Hey! Thanks for the reply! Its made it somewhat clearer. So am I a grad student in American terminology because I'm studying for a masters?
Anyway here goes:
11-16 years -> Secondary School (ie high school in America) Take GCSEs at end in ~10 subjects
Depending on how you do in GCSEs you will be entered into the Sixth Form (either at your previous school or you go to a 'sixth form college)
16-18 years -> Sixth Form -> A-levels in 4/5 subjects, it used to be only three, but they changed it. So for instance, maths, physics, chemistry, or history, geography, art, or somesuch combination. (Yes its slightly crazy only studying three subjects like that!)
Entrance into univerisity depends on your grades at A-level. So for Oxford Cambridge, you usually need three As. BTW it is quite hard getting an A grade at A-level, particulary in physics, chemistry etc. They say if you get an A is some subject at GCSE it will mean that you will only get a C grade at A-level...Most 'good' students typically get Cs, Bs.
University lasts 3 years in England, 4 years in Scotland, and you pretty much only study the subject you got in for, ie you applied to do history, you only study history for 3 years. We can't usually pick modules in different subjects like I think you do in America.
Then after 3 years, you do either a masters (one year) or a phd (three years). Although most phds usually take 3 and a half years. You don't bother taking any courses or anything within your phd - you just get straight down to research! You produce a thesis - usually based on three or four papers that have either been published, or are in submission sort of thing.
So its all rather quick here in the UK compared to the states, although I think its helped here by not having to study anything that isn't your subject. And its more detailed - an american prof here reckoned our final year undergrad classes where equivalent to masters/phd classes in the US. This was confirmed by an American exchange student from Princeton - she was supposed to be a major in our subject but was pretty clueless. The downside to all this detailed knowledge is that we don't know much outside our subject, a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view.
So there are people here who get a phd at 24 or 25. In fact, one of my ex-classmates is already doing a postdoc and he's only 26! And he isn't some genius either!
Oh and with phds, you don't have to sit any extrance exams or anything at all like that. Projects (usually titles) are usually posted by professors and you simply apply, like you would do a job. Then you get in, have to do that phd (usually because there's funding for that particular topic) and thats it. There doesn't seem to be open ended phds, although I'm in the sciences, and I guess if you have your own funding then they don't care what you study. So you usually go in knowing exactly what you have to study etc etc and of course, a lot of the sucess is down to whether the phd topic is actually feasible or whether the professor seemingly strung some random words together.
Anyway,
Meri
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:41:53
In reply to Re: What exactly is a Grad student?, posted by Jost on November 11, 2006, at 17:37:33
> Well, it's kind of like this, Meri:
>
> High School: 10-12th grades--
>
> College: four years, lots of floundering, unless you know what you want to do--
>
> Graduate School:
>
> A. Master Degree-- usually one or two years, leads to MA, MS or occasionally, MPhil
>
> ---MPhil (Master of Philosophy) is granted in some programs that don't give a terminal MA-- if you get the PhD, and you kind of get that on the way--- although you could get that if you got into the PhD program and didn't finish for some reason, and they don't give an MA
>
> B. PhD
>
> --usually about two years of course work in a field, then an oral or written comprehensive exam, possibly in several fields of specialties within the general field***I add that in my field it's common to conduct research and write a thesis in the first two years. I did this and defended it, and that (along with coursework) is how I have a master's degree, even though I continue on for the PhD.
*** Performing arts students might do an exhibition, or perform a recital for their master's thesis. Typically for a doctorate in Music (dunno about other fine arts) there is a written document, like a thesis.
>
> --then a thesis, which is supposedly an original contribution to scholarship, book length or so, which eventually could be published as your first book, and which often sets the field in which you would be hired to teach--****I'm actually working on Zeugma's thesis, and (he?she?) is doing mine. I'm expecting to be done in May. hope that's okay with Zeugma?
oh well...
>
> at least that's my experience.
>
> So, can you explain how the British system works-- A levels, and all that?
>
> Jost
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:53:51
In reply to Re: What exactly is a Grad student?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 3:17:24
Hi Meri,
After I graduated from USA high school, I went to school in Germany for a year. I was in the Abitur-level there, in their college prep school "Gymnasium".We had to pick major and minor subjects, and write exams on them after 2 years (12th and 13th grade) the exam is called Abitur. I didn't do the 13th grade, and sure as heck didn't do any Abitur exams!) My major was Chem and Music, Minor was English and Bio. I thought that American AP courses (the ones that prepared me to do well on the Adv. Placement exams) were actually more challenging than the coursework at the Gymnasium.
but there's a lot of individual variation.
In college, I took half of my courses in my major, and the rest of my courses were either related to my major (i.e. another science class) or counted towards one of my minors (violin and german studies). So, most semesters I had 1 or 2 small classes "fun classes" about books, or literature, and a large science lecture+ lab and maybe a smaller science seminar. Violin lessons, and orchestra. disgustingly well-rounded.
Used to work with a european post-doc. he was not very sophisticated. not used to thinking about stuff OTHER than his work.
One advantage of studying in Germany is that there is abundant supply of gingerbread and Marzipan Stollen. that would help me focus a lot.
-Li
p.s. my brainpower died about 4 lines into this post. i should have gone to bed a LONG time ago.
(grin)
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 15, 2006, at 14:09:03
In reply to Re: What exactly is a Grad student? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 23:53:51
Germans! Ya!
Yeah I think that in the UK its abit too focused. I mean, we certainly don't bother with minor/major subjects. If you're at uni to study chemistry, thats *all* you study. Sigh.
I'm just about getting the US system.... man, its complicated!
Anyway, I *love* stollen! Well I like gingerbread too, but its not as nice as stollen. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I had some german flatmates, and I got them to make stollen at christmas once. Hmmmmmmmmmm.......
Oh well. Crazy education systems. Sigh.
I want to do a phd after I finish my masters. That would be nice! But not in the US, they take too long there..... Oh well. I have to get my masters first!
Meri
Posted by Jost on November 16, 2006, at 16:49:16
In reply to Re: What exactly is a Grad student?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 15, 2006, at 14:09:03
Meri, they don't have to take so long. They mostly take so long in the US because people don't do them that fast. But there's no arbitrary requirement to drag your feet, hem and haw, second guess yourself forever, etc.
You can just do the work and finish up-- it's just not the usual path here.
About the Master's Thesis, that Linden mentioned-- that can be an option, but it's not the same as a PhD thesis (or dissertation) by any means.
Usually, in programs where the MA is a final degree (in the humanities, I can't speak for the sciences)--even if some people continue on to get a PhD--to be awarded an MA, you have to take and do fairly well on a Master's Exam (kind of a general exam of the field) and/or write a Master's Essay (or Master's Thesis).
Programs that are only PhD programs generally don't have that-- you take your orals (or written exams) in order to officially begin your dissertation-- but the orals aren't per se for you MA. You are granted your MA when you get your PhD.
For example, in the place where I started out (not where I finished), you had to take a Master's Exam and get either a 1 or a 2 out of 3.
People who got a 1 or 1- and wrote a good Master's Thesis were admitted to the PhD program; people who got a 2+ or 2 and did a good Master's Thesis were probably admitted, etc.
I think my year, there were about 100 people in the first year program, of which only 20 or so were admitted into the PhD program But they've changed that, since it was very unfair-- people didn't realize they weren't getting into the PhD program right away. They justified it because it was in NY, so the MA was good for jobs in publishing-- but it was mostly for money-making.
The second program I went to was very small-- 13 in the first year, of whom I think only 8 went into the second year--- it was brutal-- and I"m not sure how many finished. Like I say, it was brutal. I shoulda stayed where I was (first place)-- of course if I had, I probably would have thought I should have left.
Yucccccjk. I should have gone to law school. sigh. (dreams of money....)
Jost
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Students | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.