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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rainbowbrite on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 19:29:43
I must agree with Alex, good for you for going to the doctor!!
Hang in there
Posted by Tamar on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now?, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 19:04:12
> I will refer to myself in the third person so as to minimize triggers.
>
> Deneb did it, and she's a manipulative bitch for doing so.I don’t think you’re a manipulative bitch.
> Deneb basically threatened to OD unless she got a note. She got extremely upset... hyperventilated etc. She almost got sent to the hospital. The doc was really conflicted...Deneb doesn't think she knew what to do. Deneb had to sign a "no harm contract".
It may be a good thing that you signed a ‘no harm contract’. In a way it means you have to think about it before you seriously consider harming yourself. Oh yeah, and also it means people want you to live.
> Deneb got her note, but she feels like crap. Deneb is so manipulative she doesn't deserve to ____. Deneb doesn't even care about the note anymore, she can't believe she did such a horrible thing. She's having thoughts of ending it all now.
To be honest, Deneb, I don’t think you were manipulative. You have been having suicidal thoughts because of the stress of the forthcoming midterms. What you did wasn’t horrible; it was a re-enactment of how you have really felt on occasion in the last few days. It wasn’t a lie. It was true. So you’re not manipulative.
But the payoff is (in my humble opinion): you need to listen to yourself. The question is this: do you deserve help? And the answer is: Yes. You deserve help. You haven’t asked for anything outrageous. You have only asked for what you need. Now the hard part: accepting that you need help. Accepting that it’s OK to get help.
I hope you feel better soon. I want to hear great things in ten years about how you’ve discovered a new galaxy or something like that!
Tamar
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 2, 2005, at 19:29:43
I'm thinking about this now, of what I did before and what I did this time...and you are right...I did better.
I still did a bad thing, but I didn't do as bad a thing as last time. Last time I hurt a lot of people. This time I didn't hurt as many people. Last time I wasted precious hospital resources for 6 days....this time it cost the health care system only 1 doctor's appointment. Last time I ruined my semester, this time I didn't.
:-) I feel a little less guilty now. Compared to what I did last time, this time I should feel less guilty.
I feel like it is unfair to the other students, but I think maybe I shouldn't feel as bad about this anymore....because, I've been punished enough by my disorder. It is not nearly as bad as cheating (which I've never done). I think, I need to make the best of my situation...to try to find the path which leads to the most favourable outcome for all people.
ODing will not alleviate my guilt...it will make me feel more guilty in the end because I will hurt people if I OD. I will hurt myself, my family, my doctors, and the other patients in the hospital if I OD.
I'm going to try hard to find a study partner tomorrow. I don't have any friends so I will try the peer help centre. Last resort I'll have to pay for a tutor to be my study partner. I have to make the best of my situation.
Thanks Alexandra, I'm amazed at how helpful you are to me.
Deneb
Posted by JenStar on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now?, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 19:04:12
Deneb,
from what you write, it sounds like you believe that you are manipulative, and that you are trying to come up with an excuse to avoid finals/studying.If it's true that you're manipulating the situation, I think you need to consider why you are doing this, and how you got into this position?
I'd also consider -- what will happen next time you have tests/finals? What will happen when you get a job in the "real world" and face a deadline? What will happen when you are in a tough position to deliver some work projects?
If you don't learn now how to deal with stress appropriately, you won't be able to succeed in the real world. As you get older and more responsible, people will cease to be tolerant of these "episodes" and will stop giving you second chances when they happen.
You need to develop coping skills NOW, and time management skills NOW, so that you don't run yourself into a corner and worry about "saving face" by doing something drastic.
It seems that you feel that you'll either be labeled "stupid" b/c you failed a test, or "crazy" for OD'ing. And it seems that you're really afraid of doing poorly in school, so you'd rather suffer the stigma of a mental disorder.
I think the ideas you brought up before -- study partner, etc. are good ones. I'd also encourage you to read books on time management, or discuss ways to better manage your time (studying especially!) with your therapist or p-doc.
It sounds, and I know I could be wrong, that you're feeling hysterical because you didn't study as much as you KNOW you could have, and now you're trying to find a way out without having to take the tests. I don't think this is the right way!
I hope you are doing OK. If you fail tests, you can retake the clases. It's not ideal, but you can still pass and get a good job. It's not the end of the world. If I were an employer, I'd rather hire an employee that did poorly initially but fixed the issue by studying and eventually doing well, than someone who procrastinates and then develops huge issues and monumentous self-inflicted illnesses to deal with it. The former would, in my opinion, be more reliable.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but in the real world that's the kind of decision people are going to make! And it seems as if you're still at the point where you're testing out various methods of coping. I'm just really, really encouraging you NOT to do the self-harm method, because in the long run that's not going to be good for you.
I hope you're well. take care.
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » Deneb, posted by JenStar on October 2, 2005, at 22:19:19
I don't think I'm entirely OK yet. I'm getting quite upset on and off.
I think right now I have to concentrate on not ODing and studying. I can't face analyzing the situation right now.
I know you are really trying to help me JenStar, the length of your reply shows me that. I just don't think I'm stable enough right now to concentrate on the things I did wrong.
I'm sorry I'm not good at handling "tough love."
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Deneb's OK now? » JenStar, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 22:38:29
I don't know what happened to me.
I'm trying to avoid life.
I don't want to live...it is too scary...the real world is too scary.
I can't face the real world. I don't want to live long.
I just realized that I will never fit into the real world. It *is* hopeless for me. I don't want to live anymore.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: I wasn't always a procrastinator *trig*, posted by Deneb on October 2, 2005, at 23:00:14
> I don't want to live...it is too scary...the real world is too scary.
> I just realized that I will never fit into the real world. It *is* hopeless for me. I don't want to live anymore.
I agree, the world is a scary place...
Thats why I take refuge here
And in academia
Because there are some nice people over there.
And it is those nice people
Who make life worth living for me.When I was going through a really hard time
A really bad patch
And I really didn't believe in myself
And I really didn't believe in my ability to ever create a life worth living for myself
I had a terrific DBT therapist.
For 8 months.
And then she was gone...
But she helped me immensely
And I still carry her around as a little voice in my head
And she still talks to me
And sometimes she talks to you
Because I have to pass that foward...For me...
It is the people
The random acts of kindness
Because they careIt won't always seem this way
Really
And this first semester will be the hardest
Because next time around you will be able to say
'I did it last time so I KNOW I can do it this time'
And you will get there
Really
:-)
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: I wasn't always a procrastinator *trig* » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2005, at 0:00:29
I'm starting to lose hope that things will ever be OK for me.
I marvel at just how little meds do for me. Why is that? Why is BPD is darn difficult to treat? What is wrong with me? Is there anything wrong?
Please give me hope that things are going to get better.
I gotta go to bed now...still depressed. It's 2:39 am right now.
Deneb
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 1:43:14
Deneb, in the post above, you wrote, "I marvel at just how little meds do for me." That is most likely because you are not on the right meds yet or perhaps your current meds or med dosages need some adjustment. I do hope you will read or re-read my post above, the first one I wrote on October 2nd in this thread. It's very important for your doctor to understand what's going on with you. He needs a complete picture in order to help you.
As for diagnostic labels, frankly, I'd stay away from them, or just let your doctor use them for insurance purposes (or whatever they do in Canada). What's most important is that you find a really good therapist who can help you to deal with your feelings in more appropriate, constructive ways. The next most important thing, after finding a therapist, is to find a good psychopharmacologist (it might turn out to be the same person as the talk therapist) who can work with you to find the right medicine cocktail so that you can focus on your studies and do the things that make you feel good about yourself. In the post above, I spoke about the apathy and amotivational syndromes characteristic of ssri's. One of the problems associated with that side effect (apathy and amotivation) is that the very nature of the problem makes it less likely that the patient will report it to the doctor!
I'm hoping this week is better for you. When in doubt, study!
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 1:43:14
> I marvel at just how little meds do for me.
You have only just started on them...
You don't know how things would be going if you weren't taking your meds... Maybe taking those meds is what enabled you to make the wise decision to go see your doctor vs the ultimately unhelpful decision to take another OD... Whether they help or not will only emerge with time...>Why is that? Why is BPD is darn difficult to treat?
Because you need some therapy sweetie. Meds are only of limited effectiveness. More effective still is the right combination of meds and therapy together.
Sometimes... You find that people off the boards say things that really help you. Help you see things a bit differently. Help you with some practical suggestions of things to do. Help you with some coping strategies. The boards are wonderful, but there is only so much that we can do. If you were able to get yourself a DBT therapist then you would get MORE stuff like that. And not only suggestions for coping strategies but also radically new ones that people have to SHOW you how to implement.
>What is wrong with me? Is there anything wrong?
Sometimes you spin out a little with stress / pressure. Most people respond to stress like that. It is just that some people respond more intensely and have trouble returning to emotional baseline.
> Please give me hope that things are going to get better.
Other people can't give you hope...
That is something YOU have to muster...
But that being said sometimes other people can help YOU find it...You have been here before
You have been places that were worse than where you are at now
And you pulled through those times
Things got a lot better
And you started saying that there wasn't anything wrong with you (or your ability to cope)
That there wasn't anything wrong at all.
And the moral is...
That things do get bad sometimes
And that when things get bad it feels like they always (or mostly) are that way
That things will never properly get better
That there isn't really any hope
But things do get better
They always do
And when they are better one forgets that times get so very hard at other times
State dependent memory
Everybody has that
But it is more pronounced when the states are more extreme / intenseThings will get better
Couple of days...
If you can just hang in there for a couple of days...
Exams are stressful for everyone
But when you get through this semester
That will be a major milestone towards what it is that you really want
And you CAN do it
It is just that sometimes...
You can be your own worst enemy
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2005, at 3:13:13
be gentle with yourself
do something nice for yourself
and try to remember...
that you CAN do this
that other people believe in you
and that one day...
you will come to believe in yourself
Posted by 10derHeart on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by alexandra_k on October 3, 2005, at 3:14:23
Dear Deneb,
I really, really believe you are ultimately going to be much better.
I really do.
I hope you can take a LOT from alex's words, and Sarah T's also. They are both giving you some wonderful advice and support.
I see you as this bright, caring sweet person - a bundle of beautiful potential in this world. I see the promise there, that just needs some extra help.
I am SO impressed with your choices lately! You went to the doctor. You kept posting here. You're trying to take your meds. You've done some great studying. You've reached out for help with Hammy, even during all this stress. You've dealt with your mom- who can be a big challenge! I say - wow! Deneb has come a long way. Please don't forget all the good that's happening.
You hang in there. Talk to that pdoc and tell him very specific things about your feelings and patterns, like Sarah T. said. Perhaps the Celexa (that's right, isn't it?) is totally the wrong med for you. There are many ADs out there, and many combos. Give this guy a chance to help you - I'll bet he want very much to do that :-)
Continuing in the tradition of the third person...;-)...Deneb is getting better!
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Losing hope, posted by 10derHeart on October 3, 2005, at 10:35:16
(((((((Everyone))))))))
Thanks everyone for supporting me these couple of days. I know I've been a little draining on the community. I hope to be able to help others really soon.
I don't have time right now to respond to everyone, but I will later on today. I'm feeling a bit better now. I'm at school, printing out notes for my class in 15 mins.
((((((((((((Everyone))))))))))))))
Deneb
Posted by Damos on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Finding hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 11:43:53
Hi Deneb,
Just wanted to say I'm proud of you and glad you're hanging in there. Hope Hammy's doing better too.
YES! There are signs of progress. Please listen to Sara T and Alex who have given you such good advice and tremendous support. This thread tells me there are a lot of people who care about you. So you keep on hanging in there okay.
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Finding hope » Deneb, posted by Damos on October 3, 2005, at 17:42:05
Thanks everyone for helping me through this and just for listening. I don't have time to respond to everyone, but I read and re-read the responses.
I feel surprisingly OK today. It was scary though, the suicidal ideations coming back yesterday. I don't have them often at all now. Maybe it's the meds, who knows? I'm starting to wonder if it's possible for the Risperdal to wear off as the day progresses.
I studied some organic chem today. I think I will take advantage of my note and take the day off to study tomorrow. Studying will alleviate some of my anxiety.
Hammie's OK now. His eyes are well again.
Deneb
Posted by javableue on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Finding hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 20:19:28
Deneb,
Glad to hear you're feeling okay today and that Hammie's eyes are better. What are you studying in organic chem right now? I started with that this year (probably the equivalent of a freshman course in another province, I imagine) and am still trying to figure out what to think of the subject. It's fun, in a way, but doesn't agree very well with my mind when I'm sleep-deprived and forget little things.
Good luck with the studying tomorrow; that sounds like a good use of your day off. Sometimes all it takes is for a little pressure to be let off.
jb
Posted by ClearSkies on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Finding hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 11:43:53
Deneb, sorry to have read about your difficult time - I hope that you continue feeling better, and that Hammy is OK.
CS
Posted by holymama on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:47
In reply to Re: Finding hope, posted by Deneb on October 3, 2005, at 20:19:28
Hi Deneb,
I'm glad your mind has calmed down.
From reading a few of your posts, I've seen you go up and down in your anxiety and suicidal longings. You seem to go up and down again pretty quickly. I'm sure you know that, but to study that pattern more closely might be really helpful to you.
Do you keep a journal? It's one of the most helpful things I could ever recommend. When you are feeling bad it helps to get your emotions into words, and when you are feeling well you can reflect on what it was that made you feel so bad. Are there always the same triggers that set you off? School stress, exams? Other things?
These are the things that my therapist had me start doing when I first started seeing her. To help me begin learning about myself and the way I tick. That way even though medications work for me 80% of the time, even the 20% of the time that they don't work, I feel safer because I can see more clearly what's happening with myself. I can observe the way my mind works. It makes me feel more in control.
It sounds like you are on the right track making better choices when you get too stressed. That's a huge leap, and I hope that you can appreciate that. That takes a huge amount of willpower and strength.
Be well Deneb.
~~Autumn~~
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Re: Finding hope » Deneb, posted by javableue on October 3, 2005, at 20:33:49
> Deneb,
>
> Glad to hear you're feeling okay today and that Hammie's eyes are better. What are you studying in organic chem right now?I'm just taking a basic organic chem course. Right now we are covering the Diels-Alder reaction.
Deneb
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Re: Finding hope » javableue, posted by Deneb on October 4, 2005, at 21:57:04
Oh, the Diels-Alder reaction is one of the most versatile reactions! Too bad it is/was used for all those toxic pesticides! There are actually some pesticides called "Dieldrin" and "Aldrin."
Deneb, I'm curious. . . If you are taking just a basic Organic class, why are you studying the Diels-Alder reaction now? Is your course a second semester course that you're taking during the first semester? Usually, that reaction isn't studied until late in the second semester of an introductory Organic course.
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Hooray for Diene synthesis! » Deneb, posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 0:17:29
> Oh, the Diels-Alder reaction is one of the most versatile reactions!
I know! It is one *major* cool reaction! It seems like it can synthesize almost anything!
> Deneb, I'm curious. . . If you are taking just a basic Organic class, why are you studying the Diels-Alder reaction now? Is your course a second semester course that you're taking during the first semester? Usually, that reaction isn't studied until late in the second semester of an introductory Organic course.
Oh, I've already completed one organic chem course. This is the second organic chem I'm taking. It is still basic stuff though. We're not even going to go into detailed NMR spec. stuff, only the basics.
Most of my classes are biology type classes, mostly molecular biology. One class I really like (and did really well in) was Developmental biology...there's a lot of molecular biology in that class as well. I also liked genetics a lot. I haven't taken that many chemistry courses, only introductory chemistry, physical chem, organic chem I and organic chem II.
Deneb
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Hooray for Diene synthesis! » Deneb, posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 0:17:29
Hey there, Deneb,
I wish I had one of those special typewriters that types chemistry symbols and equations.
Have you been keeping track of the electrons in those Diels-Alder reactions?
Posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Re: Hooray for Diene synthesis! » Sarah T., posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 0:39:46
> > > Oh, I've already completed one organic chem course. This is the second organic chem I'm taking. It is still basic stuff though. We're not even going to go into detailed NMR spec. stuff, only the basics. > Most of my classes are biology type classes, mostly molecular biology. One class I really like (and did really well in) was Developmental biology...there's a lot of molecular biology in that class as well. I also liked genetics a lot. I haven't taken that many chemistry courses, only introductory chemistry, physical chem, organic chem I and organic chem II. > Deneb>
ONLY? ONLY intro chem, physical chem and organic I, and now, organic II? How can you say "only"? You've accomplished a lot so far! Does your Organic course have a laboratory class? If so, do the labs match up with what's being discussed in lecture?
Posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Re: Hooray for Diene synthesis!, posted by Sarah T. on October 5, 2005, at 1:19:43
> ONLY? ONLY intro chem, physical chem and organic I, and now, organic II? How can you say "only"? You've accomplished a lot so far!
I never feel like I'm competent enough. I think I should know a lot more than I currently know.
>Does your Organic course have a laboratory class? If so, do the labs match up with what's being discussed in lecture?
Yup, but I've taken it already, got a B . I'm actually taking this organic chem 2 class over again because I skipped the exam last time. :-(
I think I lost my mind with anxiety...ended up wandering the malls aimlessly in suicidal state.
Deneb
Posted by Phillipa on October 5, 2005, at 21:44:48
In reply to Re: Hooray for Diene synthesis! » Sarah T., posted by Deneb on October 5, 2005, at 15:06:45
Deneb, you must be very smart all I've taken was introduction to chemistry for nursing. I'm envious. Fondly, Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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