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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 19:17:16
given competitive exclusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_exclusion_principle
how do we end up with coke vs pepsi etc?
Posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 19:18:41
In reply to help, posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 19:17:16
ps - the answer is not allowed to be 'because coke is not a species of cola'
Posted by no rose garden on August 9, 2013, at 20:22:50
In reply to Re: help, posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 19:18:41
that's too much for me to read...but I'll just say Coke is better :)
Posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 20:38:51
In reply to Re: help, posted by no rose garden on August 9, 2013, at 20:22:50
I think coke is better too.
The idea is that you can't have two different species filling the same ecological niche. What will happen is that one of the species will have a slight competitive advantage and so the other species will be driven into extinction.
For instance... If you take two strains of bacteria that both feed on the same food. Then you put equal proportions of them one on each half, say, then drop in the food (not enough for everyone) then eventually one of the species will take over / the other will die out.
So that is meant to be why if you introduce a new species into a region and it fills the same niche as a native then the native sometimes goes extinct. Because of competitive exclusion.
It is controversial how much you can talk about the evolution of things like... Ideas. Or cultural artifacts... Like tools. Maybe it is just a metaphor... Or maybe there is more to it and we can come to understand aspects of society by (carefully) applying, or otherwise exploring, aspects of evolutionary biology.
Because... Culture has to be grounded in biology at the end of the day... Somehow or other.
So... Coke vs Pepsi vs Dr Pepper. Same niche... (Or perhaps not - perhaps they capture different markets, perhaps that is the solution). Or something...
Discuss?
If you feel like. Or go do something else.... The latter is starting to seem preferable to me, right now :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 21:01:09
In reply to Re: help, posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 20:38:51
i suspect the answer has to do with the illusion of choice and something about the petrie dish being a closed system. without government injections to keep struggling businesses afloat. or maybe i'm getting my sciences confuzzled.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2013, at 0:50:15
In reply to Re: help, posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 20:38:51
> Same niche... (Or perhaps not - perhaps they capture different markets, perhaps that is the solution).
Overlapping niches? Like with antidepressants?
Bob
Posted by Poet on August 10, 2013, at 12:14:46
In reply to help, posted by alexandra_k on August 9, 2013, at 19:17:16
I can't explain Coke v. Pepsi, but this certainly makes sense that VHS wiped out Betamax.VHS was the popular system even though Beta was superior in recording quality.
I like my Diet Coke or Pepsi with rum in it.
Poet
Posted by alexandra_k on August 10, 2013, at 19:27:42
In reply to Re: help, posted by Poet on August 10, 2013, at 12:14:46
> I can't explain Coke v. Pepsi, but this certainly makes sense that VHS wiped out Betamax.VHS was the popular system even though Beta was superior in recording quality.
yeah. that is a good example. of just how confusing and problematic the analogy is... marketing... or something.
> I like my Diet Coke or Pepsi with rum in it.
:-)
i used to be a big coke drinker. then i transitioned to become a big diet coke drinker. the transition period was awful - neither one tasted right.
i learned to drink water in australia. not by choice. the doctor told me i didn't have emphysema so much as having dry airways and needing to drink actual water. and i wasn't dying of a rare skin disease so much as needing to moisturise twice daily. i mean i knew you were *supposed* to do such things but i never seemed to suffer from not doing them in nz... dryer climate in aussie, though, and i learned... eventually.
rum and coke used to be a favorite of mine. have you tried red bull and vodka? all the rage now... or at least it was a couple years ago when i was last in the bars... it is an interesting stimulant / relaxant combo... i'll give it that...
Posted by Dinah on August 10, 2013, at 20:38:04
In reply to Re: help, posted by Poet on August 10, 2013, at 12:14:46
Longer recording time I think.
I was an early adopter and considered both systems. The cost of tapes and the possibilities of recording length were the deciding factors.
None of my early tapes is watchable, of course.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 10, 2013, at 20:39:51
In reply to Re: help, posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2013, at 0:50:15
> > Same niche... (Or perhaps not - perhaps they capture different markets, perhaps that is the solution).
> Overlapping niches? Like with antidepressants?
i never thought of antidepressants having overlapping niches...
> Consider the flourishing of the bacterium Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) in the face of modern drug treatments:
> The story begins in 1943, when penicillin became the first widely used antibiotic. Since then, penicillin and other antibiotics have saved millions of lives. However, by 1945, more than 20% of the S. aureus strains seen in hospitals were already resistant to penicillin. These bacteria had an enzyme, penicillinase, that could destroy penicillin. Researchers responded by developing antibiotics that were not destroyed by penicillinase, but some S. aureus popultions developed resistance to each new drug within a few years.
>In 1959, doctors began using the powerful antibiotic methicillin, but within two years, methicillin-resistant strains of S. aureus appeared. How did these resistant strains emerge? Methicillin works by deactivating a protein that bacteria use to synthesize their cell walls. However, S. aureus populations exhibited variations in how strongly their members were affected by the drug. In particular, some individuals were able to synthesize their cell walls using a different protein that was not affected by methicillin. These individuals survived the methicillin treatments and reproduced at higher rates than did other individuals. Over time, these resistant individuals became increasingly common, leading to the spread of MRSA.
>Initially, MRSA could be controlled by antibiotics that worked differently from methicillin. But this has become increasingly difficult because some MRSA strains are resistant to multiple antibiotics probably because bacteria can exchange genes with members of their own and other species (see Figure 27.13). Thus, the present-day multidrug-resistant strains may have emerged over time as MRSA strains that were resistant to different antibiotics exchanged genes (Reece et al., 2010, p. 462).
I suppose the different strains (with their different resistances) comprise different niches. And the different anti-biotics (with their different actions) comprise different niches, too).
I am becoming very attracted to the idea that: There isn't any such thing as species. There are just populations of individuals.
Why is the evolution of hysteria and the founder effect of a clinician setting up shop and finding his favorite dx all over the show thought to be somehow undermining of psychiatry's status as a field within medicine or a special application of biological science?
Posted by alexandra_k on August 10, 2013, at 20:43:43
In reply to Re: help, posted by alexandra_k on August 10, 2013, at 20:39:51
i suspect my problem is largely due to my not ever having taken even a first year university course in biology. i think i should get to study all the courses there are before being made to write my thesis :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on August 10, 2013, at 20:57:03
In reply to Re: help » Poet, posted by Dinah on August 10, 2013, at 20:38:04
> Longer recording time I think.
>
> I was an early adopter and considered both systems. The cost of tapes and the possibilities of recording length were the deciding factors.
>
> None of my early tapes is watchable, of course.i was a bit young to remember that one... i remember my parents talking about it... they decided to hold off a year or two, i believe, before making a decision. then went with vhs.
i wonder what happened.
mac vs pc both are still viable. unix vs whatever the other one is...
what was it supposed to be...
competitive exclusion: two products (perhaps) can't fill the same niche. one will have the competitive advantage and the other will be driven into extinction.
why must one have the competitive advantage? why can't they be even? or... insofar as they are different... why can't the differences involve trade-offs such that neither has the competitive advantage?
i'll look into that.
marketing must have something to say about this... with respect to niche construction.
because otherwise... it seems like (other things being equal) we would always end up with monopolies and no choice.
but maybe that is so?
i don't know.
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2013, at 13:33:30
In reply to Re: help, posted by alexandra_k on August 10, 2013, at 20:57:03
I thought the BluRay win was rather sudden...
But I suspect that it's not helpful for anyone to have competing and incompatible technologies in the same market. I know I was afraid to come down on any side in the high def market (not that I was that interested to tell the truth) when I knew that any investment was likely to become worthless.
Monopoly of providers is not a good thing. Compatability of platforms likely is.
This is the end of the thread.
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