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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by HyperFocus on March 5, 2009, at 23:04:37
I'm writing this as part of a project to better express my feelings instead of bottling them up. It's very painful to go back to these things consciously but I know for a fact that I constantly replay these things subconsciously.
Social anxiety makes the least things almost overwhelmingly terrifying, and the exceptional things impossible. Just walking through campus is an ordeal. One night I volunteered to be a supervisor at a computer lab for a few hours when the other supervisor didn't show up. This was late at night around 12. In comes this guy who looked like he was high on weed or something. He drops a mostly empty pop bottle on my desk even though there's a strict rule about not eating in the labs. After a few minutes when I see he isn't going to throw the bottle away I grab it and throw it away.
Next thing I know this f*ck*r punches / shoves me in the chest and starts this ridiculous rant about tossing the *ssh*l*'s drink. I was too stunned to do anything - it seemed incredible that someone would act like that over an empty drink bottle. I was so angry / emotional I was shaking furiously. The guys notices it and taunts me about it. Nevertheless I did not strike him back. It wasn't in my conscious thoughts at the time but the family member I am closest to has always pleaded with me not to get into fights - it's as if she has some premonition or something. But it was just fear that made me unable to strike back - as I said just talking to people can make me shake uncontrollably.
I am ashamed and humiliated that I did not fight back and defend myself. It just brought back too many bad memories of being bullied in school. Shame is a central aspect of my pathology. I'm gonna make a bigger post on shame soon.
Well that's it. I am feeling beter now, So thanks for listening.
Posted by Sigismund on March 5, 2009, at 23:56:21
In reply to Could not defend myself, posted by HyperFocus on March 5, 2009, at 23:04:37
>I'm gonna make a bigger post on shame soon.
Good.
I shall look forward to it.
Posted by Bobby on March 6, 2009, at 0:12:24
In reply to Could not defend myself, posted by HyperFocus on March 5, 2009, at 23:04:37
It has been my experience that-- sooner or later---someone else will spare you time in jail. Life has a way of evening the playing field. Let some small meek victim take revenge and embarrass/ humiliate him. Getting shot, cut, or just having the crap beat out of you has a way of humbling the most arrogant of people who will eventually underestimate their prey. Good luck----you won't be the first or last. thanks for taking the high road.
Posted by seldomseen on March 6, 2009, at 6:26:42
In reply to Re: Could not defend myself » HyperFocus, posted by Bobby on March 6, 2009, at 0:12:24
I think there is a lot of wisdom in Bobby's post. There is an old saying that "If you wait by the river long enough, the body of your enemy will come floating by".
I understand your feeling though that you should have struck back, but I think you were smart not to. I think that fear probably saved you a world of trouble in the long run.
Seldom.
Posted by SLS on March 6, 2009, at 7:23:48
In reply to Could not defend myself, posted by HyperFocus on March 5, 2009, at 23:04:37
> Social anxiety makes the least things almost overwhelmingly terrifying, and the exceptional things impossible.
Yes.
> Just walking through campus is an ordeal.
Yes.
> After a few minutes when I see he isn't going to throw the bottle away I grab it and throw it away.
It was easier to throw it away yourself rather than to confront this person directly and suggest the rules were probably a good idea to follow. I have taken this "easy" way out of things many times myself. I was afraid of any kind of confrontation because of my social anxiety. The thing that makes it so hard for me to walk away from the soda bottle is because it is my nature to be confrontative when someone does something antisocial - when I am not ill. When ill, I would rather attempt to "fix" things myself than confront someone to fix it themselves.
> Next thing I know this f*ck*r punches / shoves me in the chest and starts this ridiculous rant about tossing the *ssh*l*'s drink.
This is not a common behavior, to be sure, and represents an antisocial personality. However, I can see how someone could find your action provocative and challenging. Others, however, would simply say, "Thank you."
I have learned to just "let things go" if I know I am not well equipped to handle a possible confrontation, so matter how badly I would love to.
> I was too stunned to do anything - it seemed incredible that someone would act like that over an empty drink bottle. I was so angry / emotional I was shaking furiously.
I find that my shaking reaction to this sort of thing is the result of the depressive / anxiety illness itself. The brain / body produces an exaggerated "fight of flight" reaction that produces the nervous shaking. It is an overproduction of the "fear" response in the amygdala region of the brain. It is not your fault.
> The guys notices it and taunts me about it.
You, at least, were not a coward, even though the exaggerated sympathetic (fight or flight) reaction made you look and feel that way. You did not run away.
As I wrote earlier, when ill, my social anxiety leaves me poorly equipped to handle any kind of confrontation. So, I have learned that it is better for me to avoid it. I would have left the bottle alone. When my medication is working, I become equipped to deal with confrontation, but I choose my battles well. Some things are just none of my business. I used to make everything my business. I think idealism can lead to this sort of mentality. Injustice still makes me nuts.
You know, people do carry guns or are otherwise equipped to do major bodily harm. I once became involved in a road-rage incident where the other guy was carrying a piece in his car. I try, try, try not to let that sort of meaningless battle occur, but it has been a difficult journey to choose safety over ego. I just choose not to confront. I provide myself with my own dignity now.
Too much babbling.
One of the points I tried to make is that your social anxiety is classic in terms of how it affects you emotionally and biologically. It might not be the most popular opinion here right now, but, yes, a good biological treatment can obliterate social anxiety if true SAD is the condition being treated. I can tell you this from experience. You will still have to deal with fear-producing situations, but you won't have that automatic and exaggerated FEAR reaction that is a part of the biological illness. You will be able to process the danger and decide whether or not to confront it. You will be far more assertive.
- Scott
Posted by Bobby on March 6, 2009, at 8:19:27
In reply to Re: Could not defend myself » HyperFocus, posted by Bobby on March 6, 2009, at 0:12:24
...you'll be surprized at how quickly your anger and eagerness for vengeance can be replaced by pity and sympathy -- once you've seen someone like that cut down to size. Karma shows no quarter and God is no respecter of persons. Also(not to excuse his behavior), you never know what personal demons or fears he may be facing----we all struggle with them. I love justice as much as the next guy--but it must be tempered with mercy. I think you'll understand one fine day. Keep your head up!
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2009, at 12:49:35
In reply to p.s. as you travel through life..., posted by Bobby on March 6, 2009, at 8:19:27
Also the person could have been on illegal drugs and no amount of reasoning would have worked. I also hate confrontations. I used to have to but it was at work now I somethings confront and sometimes walk away then beat myself up for not doing what thought I should do. Should the bad word. I feel you acted appropriately under the circumstances alone with this person and late at night. Lucky you're okay. Love Phillipa
Posted by TexasChic on March 6, 2009, at 20:08:37
In reply to Could not defend myself, posted by HyperFocus on March 5, 2009, at 23:04:37
I don't think you have ANYTHING to feel ashamed or humiliated about!!! You avoided a potentially dangerous situation! If he had continued to beat you, then defending yourself would have been called for, but he tried to start something and you were able to keep it from progressing into even more violence. In my opinion, that is to be commended!
I think people like us who suffer from anxiety sometimes expect ourselves to be Superman (or Woman as the case may be). Our expectations of ourselves aren't always realistic. Try to trust your instincts and don't be so quick to put yourself down just because someone else does.
-T
P.S. Oh, and by the way, I've gotten the shakes from far less! In the situation you were in, I probably would have cried.
Posted by fayeroe on March 7, 2009, at 9:10:15
In reply to p.s. as you travel through life..., posted by Bobby on March 6, 2009, at 8:19:27
> ...you'll be surprized at how quickly your anger and eagerness for vengeance can be replaced by pity and sympathy -- once you've seen someone like that cut down to size. Karma shows no quarter and God is no respecter of persons. Also(not to excuse his behavior), you never know what personal demons or fears he may be facing----we all struggle with them. I love justice as much as the next guy--but it must be tempered with mercy. I think you'll understand one fine day. Keep your head up!
Bobby is right on concerning the other person's demons or fears....I had the opportunity to strike back (verbally) to a young man in a support group for parents of teenagers. My teens were surprised that I did not make the effort to respond to "Terry"....I explained that "Terry" was someone's son.....that usually does it for me when I'm faced with a confrontation with someone who is obviously impaired...
I don't think that you did the wrong thing by not engaging in anything physical with the young man. You won in the long run. Take care, Pat
Posted by Kath on March 10, 2009, at 18:52:29
In reply to Could not defend myself, posted by HyperFocus on March 5, 2009, at 23:04:37
I think you behaved with amazing restraint & maturity.
I wish I had been there to see it.
I understand that you feel badly about not defending yourself. In actual fact, your behaviour was wonderful, in my opinion. You acted in a calm, mature way, even while under HUGE provocation by someone who is (to say the very kindest thing I can about him) a colossal bully & an astonishing, immature idiot.
Just in case you haven't thought of this:
I would bet big money on this:
Probably 99.9% or even 100% of the people in the room would have been VERY negatively impressed with him and VERY positively impressed with you.
Not that you're out to impress people, but I just wanted to let you know that I don't think you have ANYthing to be ashamed about. On the contrary - I think you have a LOTTTTTTT to be proud of!!!
hugs, Kath
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