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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
(Warning..long-ish)
Geeezz...typical me! First, I come onto PB and complain I wasn't getting any responses to my online personal date ad. Now, I got a few, and am dating one gal exclusively, and am already running into problems.
See, we both have depression and anxiety, although her's is mostly untreated. She has gained a fair bit of weight from a.d.'s in the past, and the weight hasn't come off, but she swore never to take an a.d. again. (Of course, I think it was kinda dumb of her doctor to use amitriptilyne as the *first line* med.) So, she hates her body, thinks she is "hideous" looking (which she isn't...she looks younger than her age..perfect skin..beautiful blue eyes and long blonde hair..) and no matter how many times I tell her differently, she doesn't believe me.
The times that really, really scare me, though, are when she talks about how better life would be if she "didn't wake up", and that her son would be happier, and that I would be better off with a "younger...quote..better looking..unquote" woman. She says that all's she need's to do is to "find the courage."
We kissed for the first time last week, and that was the first time in years, after years of the horror and deadly pain of depression swept me away from life, that I kissed a woman.(Not that I kissed anything else!!..Ha!) And I felt like...*yes*...it was ALL there....she smelt so beautiful...felt so beautiful in my arms. The feeling, the one that is deadened by both depression and SSRI's, rushed through my body, like a wave of hormones where dropped into my system, but it was also so much more...the warmth...the tenderness...oh it felt so, so, so good to be *alive*, and I wanted to capture that moment and hold it forever. The Romantic in me had dived into the sea of love, lost years ago to this horrible mental illness.
We do still have some fun times and conversations too. We joke around a bit, and I try to keep things "lite". And as I said before, there is no way I am just going to *dart* away from this gal....no f*cking way. So she hates herself...hates her body...hates her job...hates life...can anyone offer something I could try? One thing I have been thinking about is that her doctor just recently Rx'ed her Wellbutrin, and she already takes clonazepam (which I think the clonazepam on it's own may be playing havoc with her depression). She refuses to take the Wellbutrin because of fear of, you guessed it, weight gain. But, from some of the research, I understand Wellbutrin may possibly help with weight loss, and I am trying to think of an angle to approach her about this with. (Atleast, it is weight neutral.) I was thinking of saying that "I know so and so who took Wellbutrin and lost a bit of weight". (I know there are studies on Medline that conclude this.)
So....anyone else have ideas? Please and thank you...and thanks for taking the time to read this!
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 17:40:04
In reply to Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
Does she have a t Jay?
That could really be helpful with respect to her self-esteem. Really.
I don't have all that much faith in meds myself (weight gain) but therapists don't seem to make me put on weight ;-)
I am so glad you are feeling a bit of a happy buzz :-)
Sorry she is making it hard for you to love her :-(
Posted by partlycloudy on February 6, 2005, at 19:45:12
In reply to Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
I found that Wellbutrin (300mg of the XR or XL, I forget) really did suppress my appetite, but it made me jumpy and unable to sleep without aid (Ambien or Benadryl). It's also prescribed to help those quitting smoking (think of quitters who gain weight when they stop smoking).
I too believe that a medication alone is not the answer to a poor self image. Therapy is an essential part of my treatment, and I must say that the treatment of my mental illness did not really begin seriously, after 10 years of antidepressants, until I started to see a therapist.
Posted by snoozin on February 7, 2005, at 8:19:39
In reply to Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
Jay,
I agree with the other poster, her weight issues are *not* the cause of her poor self-image, but I do know they can contribute. I'd tell her right out, "sweetie you are absolutely beautiful, you're not overweight, etc., but you shouldn't be afraid to take Wellbutrin because it actually helps people *lose* weight."
I'm not being artful, myself, here, but the point is to make her understand weightgain is *not* an SE of Wellbutrin (trust me).
And, for her sake, her son's sake, and yours, she's got to get to therapy to deal with her self-esteem/depression issues.....
Good luck. :-)
Susan
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 7, 2005, at 8:46:19
In reply to Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
Jay,
I am sure I will voice a very unpopular opinion here. And I know I know nothing about your relationship or her or you. But from a purely objective bystander opinion, I'm not so sure this may be the girl for you.
A lot of men like to take on the "rescuer" role with women, coming to the aid of women in trouble and believing they can make things OK again. DO you think perhaps you might be doing this?
All of the somewhat suicidal talk is a big indicator to me that she needs to work on herself before being in a realtionship. BElieve me however, I realize the pull of the physical and it is wonderful to have warmeth and sexuality in your life.
Anyway, I'm just sayin'. However, I'm sure you've thought about all of this. Just thought I would offer a diferent perspective. I've seen some of my friends get into some of these pickles and it is always hard.
Posted by jlynne on February 7, 2005, at 10:26:36
In reply to Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
Jay, I am assuming that you have read my response to your post on the relationship board addressing the situation with your girlfriend. This is very serious territory, and will take unconditional love and commitment from both of you. Unconditional means "without conditions", i.e. no expectations about how the other reacts to your love.
Offering commitment and no judgments are what is necessary to create the safe environment I mentioned in my post. If you can learn to validate your girlfriend's emotions you can help her to diffuse their power. Validating is just acknowledging, nothing more.
A very important thing, in my own opinion, is to not join each other in the emotional pits; don't feed them. In other words, be there, but don't get pulled in. It seems to be the grounding of the one offering the support that enables the dialogue to remain healthy.
I'm sorry if I seem to be going on too long with this; it's just that I feel very strongly that what Ron and I have found can work for others, too. We are reading the book "Keeping the Love You Find" by Harville Hendrix, and he addresses these very issues quite dramatically. I highly recommend it to anyone contemplating a new relationship. There is also a book "Emotional Intelligence" that addresses the emotional highjacking that is so dangerous to us who are dealing with depression.
Good luck, Jay. This will not be easy.
. . . jlynne
Posted by Shortelise on February 7, 2005, at 12:54:19
In reply to Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by jay on February 6, 2005, at 15:13:28
You could go for long walks with her, play frisbee, swim -- do things outdoors, things where you get exercise. It can help depression hugely, and can also help with weight loss.
Notice I am not suggesting that you two join a gym - this is more subtle than that. I am just suggesting that the two of you get physically active, do things together that make you both feel physically great - and I'm not talking about sex.
Beware of the need to be "in love".
I hope this helps.
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2005, at 13:06:39
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 7, 2005, at 8:46:19
Hmm. I do believe Miss Honeychurch might be on to something...
I would be very wary of someone who can't take a compliment (they are allowed to be embarrassed - but not negate them all the time).
It is draining to be with someone who is going round these circles in their head all the time. And for someone who is prone to that way of thinking themself it can be nearly impossible to refrain from getting sucked back down that big black hole.
You can't fix it for her. She needs help and hard work to help herself get better. If she was on that journey already then you could walk it together, but by the sounds of it she hasn't started yet??
I dunno...
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 17:18:52
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.. » jay, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 17:40:04
> Does she have a t Jay?
>
> That could really be helpful with respect to her self-esteem. Really.
>
> I don't have all that much faith in meds myself (weight gain) but therapists don't seem to make me put on weight ;-)
>
> I am so glad you are feeling a bit of a happy buzz :-)
>
> Sorry she is making it hard for you to love her :-(No, she doesn't have a t, which is something I might suggest to her. Ya....I know everyone is saying "don't do it just for the warmth, comfort, etc", but you guys know how life-draining that depression and anxiety can suck every ounce of humaness out of you. Especially in my case, living alone for 5 years...with no beautiful human touch. Maybe this is a test of some sort....I dunno.
Thanks kindly for your post and support,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 17:20:29
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by partlycloudy on February 6, 2005, at 19:45:12
> I found that Wellbutrin (300mg of the XR or XL, I forget) really did suppress my appetite, but it made me jumpy and unable to sleep without aid (Ambien or Benadryl). It's also prescribed to help those quitting smoking (think of quitters who gain weight when they stop smoking).
> I too believe that a medication alone is not the answer to a poor self image. Therapy is an essential part of my treatment, and I must say that the treatment of my mental illness did not really begin seriously, after 10 years of antidepressants, until I started to see a therapist.
>Ya, thanks....I think that will be one thing I will discuss with her...getting a therapist and getting some order into her life.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 17:25:28
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.. » jay, posted by snoozin on February 7, 2005, at 8:19:39
> Jay,
>
> I agree with the other poster, her weight issues are *not* the cause of her poor self-image, but I do know they can contribute. I'd tell her right out, "sweetie you are absolutely beautiful, you're not overweight, etc., but you shouldn't be afraid to take Wellbutrin because it actually helps people *lose* weight."
>
> I'm not being artful, myself, here, but the point is to make her understand weightgain is *not* an SE of Wellbutrin (trust me).
>
> And, for her sake, her son's sake, and yours, she's got to get to therapy to deal with her self-esteem/depression issues.....
>
> Good luck. :-)
>
> SusanThanks Susan. Yes, she certainly needs to deal with those issues...she sounds so aloof when she talks so negative..both therapy and a bit of help from Wellbutrin might be the trick.
Thnk you so much,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 17:49:07
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 7, 2005, at 8:46:19
> Jay,
>
> I am sure I will voice a very unpopular opinion here. And I know I know nothing about your relationship or her or you. But from a purely objective bystander opinion, I'm not so sure this may be the girl for you.
>
> A lot of men like to take on the "rescuer" role with women, coming to the aid of women in trouble and believing they can make things OK again. DO you think perhaps you might be doing this?
>
> All of the somewhat suicidal talk is a big indicator to me that she needs to work on herself before being in a realtionship. BElieve me however, I realize the pull of the physical and it is wonderful to have warmeth and sexuality in your life.
>
> Anyway, I'm just sayin'. However, I'm sure you've thought about all of this. Just thought I would offer a diferent perspective. I've seen some of my friends get into some of these pickles and it is always hard.Thanks so much for your thoughts. I do sometimes feel a bit, I dunno, manipulated maybe, but then 5 minutes later she will turn around and do or say something really sweet. If it becomes really problematic, I am very sure it will surface, and be dealt with one way or another. I am only hoping for the best. Yes, I do agree, talking about the suicidal stuff right to my face, knowing how I feel about her, and how much I tell her that her son needs a Mom there to love and protect him. (His father split when he was born.) One thing that really P*sses me off, pardon the language, is that she keeps on saying that I don't need medication...that nobody really does. Well, ya I may take 5 meds a day, but hell, I like my job,(I worked my A*S off to get it.) can find happiness in my day....think I am a somewhat good person..and have a hell of a lot of love to give and share. I just feel like saying..."So, medication is so bad for us, is it?")
Anyhow...thanks for your perspective...because I have thought of this...and it can lead to really toxic, dangerous areas if it becomes too much.
Take care,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 18:15:00
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.. » jay, posted by jlynne on February 7, 2005, at 10:26:36
> Jay, I am assuming that you have read my response to your post on the relationship board addressing the situation with your girlfriend. This is very serious territory, and will take unconditional love and commitment from both of you. Unconditional means "without conditions", i.e. no expectations about how the other reacts to your love.
>
> Offering commitment and no judgments are what is necessary to create the safe environment I mentioned in my post. If you can learn to validate your girlfriend's emotions you can help her to diffuse their power. Validating is just acknowledging, nothing more.
>
> A very important thing, in my own opinion, is to not join each other in the emotional pits; don't feed them. In other words, be there, but don't get pulled in. It seems to be the grounding of the one offering the support that enables the dialogue to remain healthy.
>
> I'm sorry if I seem to be going on too long with this; it's just that I feel very strongly that what Ron and I have found can work for others, too. We are reading the book "Keeping the Love You Find" by Harville Hendrix, and he addresses these very issues quite dramatically. I highly recommend it to anyone contemplating a new relationship. There is also a book "Emotional Intelligence" that addresses the emotional highjacking that is so dangerous to us who are dealing with depression.
>
> Good luck, Jay. This will not be easy.
>
> . . . jlynneI am sorry...this post is all over the place. It jumps from one thing to another. I read "Emotional Intelligence" and ya, it does warn of 'emotional hijacking', which I am going to have to go back and re-read. I will also check out your other book you mentioned. The problem with unconditional love is that some people take it as an excuse to be manipulative, and exploit emotions.
I agree about not being part of someones negative emotional situation, and we use that concept in behavioural counselling known as detatchment. Exact same thing, so you are really right on the money. See...one of her other problems (something I have had experience with) is she cannot make choices in a rational way, and just do them. She hates her job, but is taking a night school course towards be a "purchaser", being paid for by her current job, and in the next breath she wants to cross the Canada US border and take a day class program that takes a year to complete to become a teacher. (She already has her undergrad degree in Economics.) Thing is, school in the U.S. will cost her about 24,000 bucks a year, and she would have to commute close to 100 miles a day. She has a brand new car to pay for, as well as support her child, but thinks this teaching thing will bring her "paradise"..like she thinks she will be making 70,000 bucks a year, and be able to get a full-time position right away. There are a number of teachers in my family, and I know the above just isn't true...but because one person (a friend of a friend..) said so, and she just had to take "a few extra courses" to make 70,000 a year...that it is all true and will apply to her.
So, I will read up...and be back with further comments and such. Thanks very much for those resources.
Sorry for going on....just an example. I really admire you and your husband's dedication and hard work. I wish you both the best..
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 18:20:08
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.. » jay, posted by Shortelise on February 7, 2005, at 12:54:19
> You could go for long walks with her, play frisbee, swim -- do things outdoors, things where you get exercise. It can help depression hugely, and can also help with weight loss.
>
> Notice I am not suggesting that you two join a gym - this is more subtle than that. I am just suggesting that the two of you get physically active, do things together that make you both feel physically great - and I'm not talking about sex.
>
> Beware of the need to be "in love".
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> ShortE
>Yes...I could use to lose a good 50 or so pounds myself, so I think your ideas are great. That "need to be in love" is a bit of an influence...as I have said...going for 5 or so years without that special human touch, and the feelings of elation, it's like waking up from the dead...really...heh..lol. But, time will tell, because eventually those infatuation feelings subside, and reality comes barging in.
Thanks very much,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 18:24:22
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2005, at 13:06:39
> Hmm. I do believe Miss Honeychurch might be on to something...
>
> I would be very wary of someone who can't take a compliment (they are allowed to be embarrassed - but not negate them all the time).
>
> It is draining to be with someone who is going round these circles in their head all the time. And for someone who is prone to that way of thinking themself it can be nearly impossible to refrain from getting sucked back down that big black hole.
>
> You can't fix it for her. She needs help and hard work to help herself get better. If she was on that journey already then you could walk it together, but by the sounds of it she hasn't started yet??
>
> I dunno...
>
>
>Yeah....she REALLY needs to start the 'journey'. She is just so all over the place, as per above posts, I feel a bit like a deer caught in the headlights of an on-coming car. I'll think more.....I will keep you all updated...
Thanks very much for your thoughts,
Jay
Posted by Susan47 on February 9, 2005, at 13:33:54
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.. » alexandra_k, posted by jay on February 7, 2005, at 18:24:22
I hope you don't mind my two cents, Jay. I'm a bit scared to post to you because.. well I don't know why, really. Weird. Anyway, I used to be the girl you're dating. Well, obviously we have different lives and different stuff but she sounds insecure, uncertain of herself, and a bad risk even though she's very attractive, vulnerable, and warm .. also, an incredible turn-on for you for the first time in years. Hard to resist, hm? I'm so scared I'll be in your position too one day, because I'm not the girl I used to be but I definitely am lonely, and romantic, and needing the human touch very much. I have to keep reminding myself that men come imperfect and I have to be careful, I've been down that road too many times before. I'm fragile in my new skin, which is still developing, and I need a very confident, secure, stable person by my side, if anyone. I have to remind myself all the time not to take chances with others, because being alone is so incredibly hard for me. (((Jay))) IMO this sweet lady has a lot of work to do on her internal workings before she's ready for a relationship.
Posted by Susan47 on February 9, 2005, at 13:35:27
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.. » jay, posted by Susan47 on February 9, 2005, at 13:33:54
On the other hand, of course, you may be the one who will change everything for her, and maybe you have a long happy relationship ahead of you ...
Posted by jay on February 9, 2005, at 15:48:53
In reply to Re: Please...I beg for help with girlfriend problem.., posted by Susan47 on February 9, 2005, at 13:35:27
> On the other hand, of course, you may be the one who will change everything for her, and maybe you have a long happy relationship ahead of you ...
>
>
This is the clencher...and maybe why it's best to let time take it's course, and see what happens. I am just so hungry and thirsty for some kind of real love, I want to make it all better *right now*. She tells me that I am "perfect", all around I guess (and yes, I know I am not..)...I just don't understand why she just can't take the plunge with me. I have quite a few hints she is in it for the long run...which is good because so am I...but the weight of all this other stuff just hits me out of nowhere.Thanks,
Jay
Posted by sunny10 on February 10, 2005, at 11:20:02
In reply to Can I live with or without her?? » Susan47, posted by jay on February 9, 2005, at 15:48:53
I just need to take a moment and caution both of you. No one can affect a change in someone else.
(I realize that all I say here is self-learned and that I am not the same person as you, but I have also read this in numerous books and articles. Okay, disclaimer made, read on if you wish)Either of you can be the best, sweetest, kindest, most wonderful-in-every-way people, but if the other person is not able to let that in, all of your goodness will not make a difference in their lives and I'm afraid you might feel worse about yourselves.
Sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but all of us need to be secure in ourselves.
Jay, I'm not saying that you two cannot work on your issues separately, but as a couple. I have to say, I am a HUGE proponent of actually discussing this in detail as a couple. If the discussion doesn't work a relationship won't work. If the discussion does work, then you will know where you stand with her, and she with you.
Best of luck,
sunny10
Posted by Susan47 on February 10, 2005, at 12:49:13
In reply to Re: Susan47 Jay, posted by sunny10 on February 10, 2005, at 11:20:02
Sssshh, psst, Sunny, (ialreadyknewthatthat'swhyipostedthewayidid,ssshhh)
Posted by jay on February 10, 2005, at 17:56:02
In reply to Re: Susan47 Jay, posted by sunny10 on February 10, 2005, at 11:20:02
> I just need to take a moment and caution both of you. No one can affect a change in someone else.
> (I realize that all I say here is self-learned and that I am not the same person as you, but I have also read this in numerous books and articles. Okay, disclaimer made, read on if you wish)
>
> Either of you can be the best, sweetest, kindest, most wonderful-in-every-way people, but if the other person is not able to let that in, all of your goodness will not make a difference in their lives and I'm afraid you might feel worse about yourselves.
>
> Sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but all of us need to be secure in ourselves.
>
> Jay, I'm not saying that you two cannot work on your issues separately, but as a couple. I have to say, I am a HUGE proponent of actually discussing this in detail as a couple. If the discussion doesn't work a relationship won't work. If the discussion does work, then you will know where you stand with her, and she with you.
>
> Best of luck,
> sunny10No...you aren't sounding like a wet blanket. I am starting to confront her on some of the issues..it just leaves me scratching my head when she tells me I am the "best thing that has happened to her"...and how "lucky (she) is to have found me". Then she pulled it again this morning "I don't know if I want to live", and I jumped right on that, and told her how horrible that makes me feel, that she couldn't even live for me or for her son. That put an end to that quickly, and I am glad, because used in this context, it's a manipulative thing. She still hasn't gotten it through her head that she needs meds and therapy, and blames the meds for "screwing up the past four years of (her) life." I just wanna throw my hands up in the air sometimes. I talk to her about a cd that I bought that I really liked (and a song that made me think of her...it was really nice...called 'Tuesday Morning' by Michelle Branch), and like she has about my past mention of other cd's, said she "does NOT like that type of music.", instead of being a bit more gentle and maybe open-minded.
So....oy oy...I don't know how this is all gonna play out..but this time I am going to make for sure I am not the one who gets hurt.
Thanks for listening..and for your thoughts...
Jay
Posted by sunny10 on February 11, 2005, at 13:11:11
In reply to Re: Susan47 Jay » sunny10, posted by jay on February 10, 2005, at 17:56:02
you said..
"So....oy oy...I don't know how this is all gonna play out..but this time I am going to make for sure I am not the one who gets hurt.Thanks for listening..and for your thoughts...
Jay"I am SO happy to hear you sounding this way!
whichever way this relationship goes, I'm on YOUR side!!!
-sunny10
This is the end of the thread.
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