![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2004, at 17:58:37
'A Victoria University linguistics study has suggested that the word 'f*ck' at work, rather than showing one is rude, uncouth and offensive, can actually be considered a form of politeness and can help strengthen team spirit.
The study consisted of an analysis of the conversation patterns of a team working in a soap factory. The results showed that 'f*ck' was the most used naughty word by a landslide but in the context of the team could not be considered offensive. "Forms of 'f*ck' occur frequently in certain contexts and serve a range of functions, including the role of positive politeness strategy. 'F*ck' is regularly associated with expressions of solidarity, including friendly terms of address". Researchers also found that derogatory terms such as 'dumb b*tch' in the context in which they were observed showed an "I like you, so I can be rude to you" attitude.
Those often accused of whinging at work can take heart too. The study, which defined whinging as "long or repeated expression of discontent not necessarily intended to change or improve the situation" suggested that it was an emotional release and a way to establish affinity with colleagues. "Teammates regularly have a moan to each other; whinging to a sympathetic co-worker both reflects and constructs the close relationship between team members, thus consolidating the teams solidarity".
The results of the study have a peculiar resonance with Nexus, showing that this magazine must have the most harmonious, sympathetic team of workers in the Southern Hemisphere'.
In "Nexus" (student magazine)
Posted by 64bowtie on September 21, 2004, at 7:22:07
In reply to What the f*ck?!, posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2004, at 17:58:37
Trust me when I say that as an ex-Submar(ee)ner in the US Navy, I am not accusing anyone of "dumbing down" by having an affinity to profane words. However, the lowest common denominator is not something to aspire to. Aspiring is a process of increasing our effectiveness, not a seeking of things lower in stature.
On the Boat, we used "street language" all the time and in every situation while submerged. It was our "Red Badge of F*ck-Up-ed-ness". It was our statement of "Manhood". Announcements over the 1MC and 2MC shipboard info systems were mostly professional, but "naughty words" would sometimes show up.
Unlike the article mentioned, although avoidance of new-folk may be better deminished, comunication suffers because precision is lost to, "What the f*ck you talkin' about?" type misunderstandings. Also, this is the language of abuse and abusers, never far from coercion and violence. Not what I want to aspire to be, a violent abuser.
Profanity may "Feel-Good" and make us feel included, but like Jerry Sienfeld and Bill Cosby have pointed out, "It's a better game" to present humor without profanity. Its a better game to live as far away from profanity and the anger and abuse always so ever-present.
I was considering submitting a manuscript about 12 step recovery in "professional" verbage when read front to back on the right-hand page. Turn the book over and upside down. Now read it point for point, front to back, on the right-hand page, and the same concepts would have the same references all in "street language". See? Two complete books in one. Alas, Jerry Sienfeld's observations prevailed and the manuscript is now on hold.
Think of how any book could be rewritten for the masses in this fashion. Sadly, those who use the most profanity in their daily lives can't benefit from such publication since so few of them read much anymore. There is hope that they could get "books on tape", and it might come across better, anyway. Think of how a profane version of your favorite novel might read or play....!?!
Final thought: Professional diction will always win out, 'cause it IS a better game.
Rod
Posted by karen_kay on September 21, 2004, at 7:30:53
In reply to All I ask..., posted by 64bowtie on September 21, 2004, at 7:22:07
we get your f*cking point. you prefer not to swear. thank you for being above it. i am not. (yes, i may talk like a sailor, but i don't look like one!)
have a lovely day sir.
Posted by 64bowtie on September 21, 2004, at 7:38:54
In reply to mr rod..., posted by karen_kay on September 21, 2004, at 7:30:53
I argue against aspiring to be great at it, like I am. I consider my situation a mistake I so easily make (gee, that rhymes). Somedays I don't do it much anymore. Today wasn't one of them.
Rod
Posted by AuntieMel on September 21, 2004, at 13:44:09
In reply to mr rod..., posted by karen_kay on September 21, 2004, at 7:30:53
I was brought up in the southern tradition of "ladies must have good manners at all times." Naturally this meant no swearing.
It was good training for babble - and I still find it a good challange to try to express things in ways that others can understand and still not swear.
But there are times when nothing but a swear word will get the point across....
Posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2004, at 17:21:23
In reply to What the f*ck?!, posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2004, at 17:58:37
I think that in some contexts swearing may have the functions that the study suggests, though if someone considered that because they like me it is okay for them to call me a 'dumb b*tch' I might call them a 'stupid arrogant f*ck' just to return the favour. I don't see how that kind of name calling can be viewed as supportive except by people who don't know any different. And I am inclined to think (though perhaps this is arrogant) that if they did know different they wouldn't think it was supportive or acceptable. It is the sort of thing that can be taken personally and damage and hurt people emotionally.
It may be more accepted as a chummy thing to do in a soap factory, or in the armed services, and perhaps in other contexts, but I'd like to see how my supervisor or workmates would respond to that one in a university context. Maybe I should have a wander down the hall to the linguistics department...
There is something expressive about 'f*ck' that can't be captured adequately by alternative means of expression. I think, however, that it is so effective because it is suprising and in a way 'shocking'. It loses its affectiveness if we overdo it.
Posted by jay on September 21, 2004, at 20:49:33
In reply to Re: mr rod... » karen_kay, posted by AuntieMel on September 21, 2004, at 13:44:09
Well, I was brought up in the Northern Canadian tradition of hockey, doughnuts, great beer, and superb t.v. Terms like "What a F*cking Hoser" where shared among friends as compliments. :-) Plus, we Canucks have uncensored t.v., with lots of "F*CKS", lots of nudity, sex, and yes people smoking pot, and the great things in life. (Hey, even gay marriage!) Sure beats VIOLENT movies with "Pardon me, sir", then some close-up of a guy getting his head blown off.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 21, 2004, at 21:11:07
In reply to Re: mr rod... » AuntieMel, posted by jay on September 21, 2004, at 20:49:33
> Sure beats VIOLENT movies with "Pardon me, sir", then some close-up of a guy getting his head blown off.
Would they ask if they had any Grey Poupon first?
hee hee hee
Actually, I hate those kinds of movies. And also those with a lot of profanity. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Regards.
gg
Posted by TofuEmmy on September 21, 2004, at 22:21:48
In reply to Re: mr rod... » AuntieMel, posted by jay on September 21, 2004, at 20:49:33
Jay, Pardon me, but I agree entirely!! Right the Tofu*k on!!
TofuEmmy
Posted by 64bowtie on September 22, 2004, at 0:58:09
In reply to Re: mr rod... » karen_kay, posted by AuntieMel on September 21, 2004, at 13:44:09
AuntieMel,
Perhaps self-respect can make a difference in your attitude... I don't insist on this stance. I only suggest that absence of self-respect breeds abuse, coercion, and violence. Lo-and-behold, so does profanity, indecency, and obscenity.
Then again I am often heard repeating George Carlin's seven dirty words. Hypocrit? Not really. Automatic speech eminating from my speech center in my brain; I just want it to go away so that I can advance to my goals and plans with a little bit of grace.
Rod
Posted by just plain jane on September 22, 2004, at 7:13:37
In reply to Re: Re: mr rod... » AuntieMel, posted by 64bowtie on September 22, 2004, at 0:58:09
to quit smoking, one has to stop touching cigarettes, stop lighting them, stop putting them in their mouths, stop inhaling
to quit drinking one must cease pouring the liquid down their throat
to quit swearing,
ah and alas, this is the hardest habit to kick
it is in my head
and though I am literate
(also ill - but not ill literate)
ummmmm...................oh, yeah,
though I am literate
judiciously used cuss words can, indeed,
punctuate as nothing else can
Posted by fayeroe on September 22, 2004, at 7:45:33
In reply to Re: mr jay.. » jay, posted by TofuEmmy on September 21, 2004, at 22:21:48
I stand right behind Miss Tofu----!!!!!
Posted by 64bowtie on September 22, 2004, at 17:16:54
In reply to Re: mr rod... » karen_kay, posted by AuntieMel on September 21, 2004, at 13:44:09
AM,
> But there are times when nothing but a swear word will get the point across....<<< Somehow we always think it can help to speed up things and d*mn but it comes back to haunt us most times. So I have overwritten my visceral need to "swear" with my seeking of the graceful solutions to the same problems. It works, partly because it disciplines me to think before I (put-my-foot-in-my-mouth) speak.
<<< I meant to answer your other request of weeks ago, but I left on a Dr-Bob "vacation" (block) and have misplaced your invite which included your "address". If you reprise it for me, I'll be more prompt.
Rod
AKA: dr10day-deskof at yahoo dot com
Posted by 64bowtie on September 22, 2004, at 17:27:00
In reply to thoughts.., posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2004, at 17:21:23
...testosterone poisoning among men... I are one... I done it, toooo!
Rod
Posted by AuntieMel on September 23, 2004, at 13:34:30
In reply to Re: mr rod... » AuntieMel, posted by jay on September 21, 2004, at 20:49:33
It doesn't offend me to *hear* it. It's just that I don't often feel comfortable saying it. My mouth might be a prude, but my ears aren't.
Posted by AuntieMel on September 23, 2004, at 13:37:50
In reply to Re: Re: mr rod... » AuntieMel, posted by 64bowtie on September 22, 2004, at 0:58:09
Maybe. Self respect is something I have plenty of. Self liking? Nope. They're not the same thing....
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 23, 2004, at 17:42:23
In reply to Re: mr jay.. » jay, posted by TofuEmmy on September 21, 2004, at 22:21:48
> Jay, Pardon me, but I agree entirely!! Right the Tofu*k on!!
>
> TofuEmmyYep I'll third that. Besides swear words are arbitrarily chosen, most of them at one time were considered perfectly acceptable words so it seems weird to me to have a certain arrangement of letters invoke such strong emotions. And as Jay said an act of cruelty can be done with perfectly civil language.
Of course if I knew someone was really upset by "profanity" I wouldn't use it around them just because it would upset them, I'd consider that needlessly hurtful.
Posted by 64Bowtie on September 25, 2004, at 17:03:43
In reply to Re: Re: mr rod... » 64bowtie, posted by AuntieMel on September 23, 2004, at 13:37:50
> Maybe. Self respect is something I have plenty of. Self liking? Nope. They're not the same thing....
<<< Are you slating your self-loathing here? If so, When I loath something or some one, I know the story of why. Are you certain you do in your case? Or is it just a feeling? A gnawing and nagging at your wholeness?
<<< Please be clear that I am 100% behind feelings as one "shared" method or reason. When feelings block out the other partners in reason, motives and logic, I hold feelings suspect until it gets sorted out. I do a "wait-and-see". I get more information before I act. So when I say, "...just a feeling", I am holding the "partnership" of reason, namely motives, feelings and logic to a place of higher order and value in my decision making processes.
<<< Please don't recoil in mortification because I think differently. This is ancient stuff. Someone else thought alot about it long before I did. I have just been trained to decode it first in problem solving situations. If I can do it, we all can. My bias is that it saved my a*s and many other's as well.
<<< Bumper sticker: Be careful of what you feel!
Rod
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.