![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 1:35:26
i see this theme over and over on this site
and in my own life
and i wonder if it is a condition of modern life
lonelinessi saw douglas coupland speak about his book
he said something to the effect of:
"if we could bottle 'Hi, How was your day?' in a pill, we would have no need for anti-depressants"do you believe that is true?
i have been on an introspective journey of sorts for the last few months. after looking back on the pieces of my life, i realize that i have been intensely lonely for many pieces of it. true friendships have been fleeting - in general, i have not spent more than three years in the same city with a person without wanting to kill said person. is this typical? are we all doomed to fundamental misunderstanding of our psyche from others?
and now, more recently, i have run into the selfish and/or arrogant and/or immature types who are afraid of deep friendship. i don't know if it is a time thing, or a fear of knowing thing, or what. but i have made nice overtures, only to get told one bs excuse or another time after time. makes me not want to reach out to anybody.
i don't mind so much going out. i go to the movies and to drum and here and there and i chat with the people, make friendly acquaintance, and disappear again like a ghost. like i was never there. and still again face up to the loneliness of being really, truly, on my own.
and then i think i'm flawed. but i don't like that reasoning. so then i think everybody else is flawed. which sort of limits my options of meeting people, if they're all flawed.
bah. this is long and rambly and makes no sense. but, this is the thread for ramblings about loneliness! bring em on.
Posted by jay on November 17, 2003, at 3:46:32
In reply to loneliness is not a phase, posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 1:35:26
Well...check out my post below. I live in this dark, enclosed shell, and have been for about 7 years now. It crep't up on me slowly...taking away friends slowly...taking away self-esteem...taking away my job...taking away better overall health...etc.
I say this below...and it has become a new insight for me....that this 'illness' is so damn lonely, and that is one of the worst aspects of it.I think I know what you mean about the "hi..how are you today" thing...because that really is just superficial, and many of us have learn't to put on 'fake' appearences just so we can actually stand making it through some uncomfortable experience. But, how do we really drop those ego boundaries? One thing I would love is to be able to drop and raise those boundaries with the snap of my fingers. Right now, I am such a mess inside, they won't even budge.
I hope that makes sense...and yes it is a great thread.
Best and peace,
Jay
Posted by Elle2021 on November 17, 2003, at 4:19:13
In reply to loneliness is not a phase, posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 1:35:26
I don't know if "Hi, how was your day," would help my depression, but it could be the cause of yours. Sounds like your feeling lonely. I'm sorry your having to deal with immature types and have run into the type who can't have deep friendships. I'm the "can't have deep friendship" one. I don't know how to maintain or get to that level of intimacy. Scares me too. Telling someone your innermost thoughts, and knowing that they can use them against you if they so choose. I have trust issues, if you can't tell. I thought of something though, maybe it's *where* you're finding these friends that is the problem. Try looking for people in more committed situations or something like vounteer work. Those people seem to have it together. Maybe they can give you what your looking for. Just my 2 cents though. :) God bless you.
Elle
Posted by Wildflower on November 17, 2003, at 15:23:50
In reply to loneliness is not a phase, posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 1:35:26
Oh Octopusprime, you've hit on a topic that hounts me daily...
I truly believe that all of us feel lonely at one point or another. For those of us who are depressed, it seems to be much worse. It's a vicious cycle of us pulling away from society to heal and having those close to us leaving because they just don't know how to help. No one ever realizes that it's the little things that count.
I've actually changed jobs (in part) because my boss stopped asking how my weekend or day was. Sadly enough, I had a tally mark sheet in my cube and put down a mark each time she walked by without saying a word or even flashing a brief smile. It wasn't that I wanted her as a close friend, I just needed someone to care about me.
There are so many times that I wonder, if I weren't around, would anyone miss me?
Posted by Searchlight on November 17, 2003, at 16:27:39
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » octopusprime, posted by Wildflower on November 17, 2003, at 15:23:50
Wildflower, Jay, Elle and Octopusprime
I am going through a very, very lonely phase in my life too. I have 6 very close friends (I am truly lucky), but they all live far away. I also have a fantastic and extemely supportive family. Still, I am lonely. It is a kind of lonely that only people with depression (or other) can know. It is a deep, dark feeling that seems to know no relief. I know I have had it almost all my life (even though I have been married twice and have had some very nice long-term boyfriends). I am an only child too, and I think that may compound things for some depressives. I guess I see lonliness as part of our illness (if it's okay to use that term). Getting proper meds, therapy and good support systems in place help combat this. I know for myself, without meds, the true out-going person that I am just doesn't feel her best, so I withdraw. Since I am older and have been dealing with it for so many, many years I have developed a lot of cognitive coping skills and ways of dealing with it (having six close friends is a phenomenal and true gift which could not have happened without therapy and meds),and I'd be happy to talk to anyone about what I have learned on this long and often lonely journey. I am no expert nor am I praising myself in any way, but if I can help someone along the way even just a little, at least I'll know it wasn't all in vain. I know I have learned a lot from others on these boards and, it amazes me to see the wonderful support and resources people have and have chosen to share with others. Hope eveyone is finding at least one positive nugget (if not more) each day. Today, for me, it was talking with my Mom and sharing some things with her that really helped me get some perspective. Also, I played a lot with my 3 loving cats, and that always makes me very happy. And I talked to my closest friend on the phone today- for maybe all of 8 minutes- but it was the contact that made me feel so good! Hope this doesn't sound too preachy or sappy, but lonliness for me has been a very painful part of depression.
Posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:14:55
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » octopusprime, posted by jay on November 17, 2003, at 3:46:32
hello jay.
congratulations on deciding to join group therapy and start talking. i simultaneously loathe and embrace the dark enclosed shell.i just wanted to explain the "how was your day" thing ... i believe the phrase was spoken in the context of true caring, not forced appearances, by somebody that legitimately cared about the answer (no matter what it was) ...
i agree with you about ego boundaries. i feel that we develop the ego boundaries out of self-defense, out of lack of trust, out of shattered perceptions. when we cannot trust our own minds, who can we trust? so we build walls and isolate ourselves.
while i sure would love to drop those boundaries, i still have a defensive fear of rejection. maybe i'll sign up for group therapy with you.
cheers.
> Well...check out my post below. I live in this dark, enclosed shell, and have been for about 7 years now. It crep't up on me slowly...taking away friends slowly...taking away self-esteem...taking away my job...taking away better overall health...etc.
> I say this below...and it has become a new insight for me....that this 'illness' is so damn lonely, and that is one of the worst aspects of it.
>
> I think I know what you mean about the "hi..how are you today" thing...because that really is just superficial, and many of us have learn't to put on 'fake' appearences just so we can actually stand making it through some uncomfortable experience. But, how do we really drop those ego boundaries? One thing I would love is to be able to drop and raise those boundaries with the snap of my fingers. Right now, I am such a mess inside, they won't even budge.
>
> I hope that makes sense...and yes it is a great thread.
>
> Best and peace,
> Jay
Posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:20:16
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » octopusprime, posted by Elle2021 on November 17, 2003, at 4:19:13
hi elle,
thanks for your support.
volunteering is a good idea, however i haven't been able to motivate myself to go. it's #1 on my new year's resolution list, and i will work it into my schedule starting in january. i want to walk puppies at the spca. i guess if i don't meet nice people there, i might meet a nice dog :)
is there such a thing as a more committed person? would i find this person in a hospital? (bad joke)
people change so fast, perceptions of situations change, life changes, i change. in the face of change it's hard to find anchors in other people to help tether our emotions. i miss my emotional tethers, even if they ultimately weren't very good for me. i feel very rootless and feel that the rooted would see me as a threat to the very sense of rootedness that they embody.
don't mind my rambles i'm just exploring here.
Posted by JimD on November 17, 2003, at 22:28:42
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » jay, posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:14:55
Loneliness sucks.
I have often questioned why we, as a society, feel the need to couple up. I believe it is related to needing a sense of 'belonging' that a partner (under the right circumstances) provides.
I, personally, am very lonely. Honestly, everything in my life is on track. I have a great job, geat family, wonderful friends that I am truly close with...yet it isn't enough. Perhaps it's depression, perhaps it is simply human nature.
As for the magic pill, if someone could capture the feeling of embracing someone you love, I would buy mass quantities.
Posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:36:07
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » octopusprime, posted by Wildflower on November 17, 2003, at 15:23:50
oh wildflower, you hit the nail on the head with this one:
> There are so many times that I wonder, if I weren't around, would anyone miss me?
>i've played variations on that theme through my head a dozen times. i'm lucky that i do have a mother, father, and sister that love me very much, however, we cannot tolerate each other in close quarters. families are usually great for the unconditional love thing, but lousy for lifting the heavy emotional burdens of knowing our true selves and helping to lift us out of our miseries.
for example, i think that if i died, it might theoretically be weeks before my body was found. certainly my parents would not think anything was amiss for more than two weeks; while the people at my workplace would find my absence atypical - would they call the cops?
or for example tonight, i was excited because i received a telephone call. who could it be? somebody exciting? no, a telemarketer. a bored sounding one. i felt like a loser for being excited about getting a phone call.
wildflower, i understand the motivation that would prompt you to leave a job because you felt the coworkers were uncaring. i have manifested that behaviour a bit differently, in extreme slackerdom and indifference. which is not exactly endearing, let me tell you. i wonder what the healthy mechanisms are to cope with these situations - especially when it's "unprofessional" to talk a lot about feelings in the workplace?
and even though we spend the best hours of our waking lives at the workplace (how sad), we can't invest our emotional fortunes in them because they can toss us out on our ears at any second for almost any reason. are we to become automatons at the mercy of our cruel corporate masters?
anyway morbid stuff. if you have found good coping strategies (beyond tea, smoked gruyere, a good book, and good music), please let me know. i feel i exist largely as a cog in the consumer machine. consumer pleasures (such as a good meal) are some of the few true pleasures i have left.
Posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:43:35
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase, posted by Searchlight on November 17, 2003, at 16:27:39
hi searchlight!
if you have specific coping strategies, post away!
may i ask how you keep close friends at a long distance? i moved across the country from my friends a little more than two years ago. i still correspond with some of them occasionally (on the order of once a month or so), but it has been so long that i'm not so sure i could count on them to be there if i was in a pinch any more. plus, when i am seriously depressed (which i'm not now), i feel like such a drag on people that i don't want to call them up just to catch them up on my misery.
you are right about how one can feel intensely lonely in relationships. while i have never been married, i have suffered with loneliness in the context of being with other people. which makes me loathe almost to meet other people, because i don't need more problems, right?
sigh. i know you are right about therapy. i probably seriously do need some. i was hoping that using my money for a trip to mexico would be just as cheering as therapy (and more cost-effective per hour), but the more i hear the gospel sung, the more i feel the need to sing along with the choir.
cheerio.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 18, 2003, at 6:43:51
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » Elle2021, posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:20:16
> is there such a thing as a more committed person? would i find this person in a hospital? (bad joke)
Hahahahahaah! Good joke actually! At least you have a sense of humor. I guess I'm not sure if there is a such thing as a "more committed person." I just meant find someone who seems more serious about life and relationships.
You said, "people change so fast." I'm not sure about that. In my experience, (I'm a "fixer upper when it comes to the dating scene) I have tried to change views, opinions, and a number of other things. I fail everytime. I know that I am pretty rigid and getting me to "change my ways" should be labeled "mission impossible." I am who I am, only I can change me. I don't know why I can understand that, yet still go about believing that I can fix or change someone else to suit me. In fact I'm in a new situation with a guy and I'm attempting it again. Ya know, they say, "Craziness is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome..." Hmmm... :)
Elle
Posted by jay on November 18, 2003, at 7:32:06
In reply to Re: loneliness is not a phase » jay, posted by octopusprime on November 17, 2003, at 22:14:55
> hello jay.
> congratulations on deciding to join group therapy and start talking. i simultaneously loathe and embrace the dark enclosed shell.
>
> i just wanted to explain the "how was your day" thing ... i believe the phrase was spoken in the context of true caring, not forced appearances, by somebody that legitimately cared about the answer (no matter what it was) ...
>
> i agree with you about ego boundaries. i feel that we develop the ego boundaries out of self-defense, out of lack of trust, out of shattered perceptions. when we cannot trust our own minds, who can we trust? so we build walls and isolate ourselves.
>
> while i sure would love to drop those boundaries, i still have a defensive fear of rejection. maybe i'll sign up for group therapy with you.
>
> cheers.
>Hey Octo....thanks very much. I see what you mean about the "Hello..." comment. It *is* very validating when someone simply asks how you are doing. And I see what you mean about the "putting it in a pill" part.
The ego boundaries...oyyy...the whole trust factor is a heck of a lot to ask especially for people who have had that violated, and I deeply empathise with that. It's amazing...but some days it's all just a cakewalk, and others even the slightest bit of communication is like pulling teeth. I guess that is where both meds and therapy come in. Not to complicate things more, but I guess that is why I may have never benefited from a CBT-like therapy, and more from an older existential, psychotheraputic model, in that I feel ego boundary issues are burried deep in our intellectual selves.
But...anyhow...you are more than welcome to come and join me for a group session! :-)
Best, peace and hope...
Jay
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.