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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2001, at 2:39:47
In reply to Re: London next week (nm), posted by NikkiT2 on August 28, 2001, at 12:23:52
BTW, I don't think of meeting me as the main attraction, my being in town is just an excuse for those of you in the area to meet each other. So there should be at least a couple of you...
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 31, 2001, at 16:32:43
In reply to Re: London next week, posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2001, at 2:39:47
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2001, at 19:00:47
In reply to I'm up for it - anyone else?? (nm), posted by NikkiT2 on August 31, 2001, at 16:32:43
> I'm up for it - anyone else??
FYI, *not* to pressure anyone or anything, it looks like it would need to be Wednesday, maybe at lunchtime or early afternoon? If not, that's fine, maybe next time...
Bob
PS: What a great town! :-)
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 3, 2001, at 19:22:10
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday, posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2001, at 19:00:47
You here Dr Bob?? Remind me whats great about it!!!
Well it would be nice to meet you for a coffee some place onw ednesday...
nikki
> > I'm up for it - anyone else??
>
> FYI, *not* to pressure anyone or anything, it looks like it would need to be Wednesday, maybe at lunchtime or early afternoon? If not, that's fine, maybe next time...
>
> Bob
>
> PS: What a great town! :-)
Posted by Lisa Simpson on September 4, 2001, at 6:14:01
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on September 3, 2001, at 19:22:10
Hullo, Dr Bob and Nikki - can you tell me, have you actually arranged to meet up in London on Wednesday?
Lisa
Posted by dreamer on September 4, 2001, at 6:21:53
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday, posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2001, at 19:00:47
> Bob
>
> PS: What a great town! :-)Pleased your enjoying your stay. It'll have to be next time Bob.
Have fun try and get on the London eye ride if it's in operation.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 4, 2001, at 18:29:13
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday » Dr. Bob, posted by dreamer on September 4, 2001, at 6:21:53
> You here Dr Bob?? Remind me whats great about it!!!
It's been an interesting meeting, the weather's been great, it's easy to get around -- and everyone's so well-behaved: I love how on the escalators, people who stand stay on the right, so people who want to walk can go by on the left. :-)
> Well it would be nice to meet you for a coffee some place onw ednesday...
OK, this meeting's way out at ExCeL, at the Custom House tube stop on the Docklands Light Railway line. But we need at least one more person...
> Hullo, Dr Bob and Nikki - can you tell me, have you actually arranged to meet up in London on Wednesday?Not yet, but I think I could be free at 4, or maybe 2. I thought lunch would work, but I just found out today about a meeting at 12:30...
> Have fun try and get on the London eye ride if it's in operation.What's the eye ride? Don't think I've heard of it...
Bob
Posted by dreamer on September 4, 2001, at 21:08:07
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday, posted by Dr. Bob on September 4, 2001, at 18:29:13
> > Have fun try and get on the London eye ride if it's in operation.
>
> What's the eye ride? Don't think I've heard of it...
>
> BobIt's a huge wheel with carriages that turns very slowly for about 30 mins, great for seeing the whole of London from above(so I've been told)
Can't recall where around London it is but it's well known and visible.Enjoy!
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 5, 2001, at 4:55:33
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday » Dr. Bob, posted by dreamer on September 4, 2001, at 21:08:07
> It's a huge wheel with carriages that turns very slowly for about 30 mins, great for seeing the whole of London from above(so I've been told)
Ah, OK, I've heard of that, an old-fashioned Ferris wheel, where your ride is a single slow revolution. I'll look for it, thanks for the tip! :-)
Bob
Posted by Lisa Simpson on September 6, 2001, at 5:41:27
In reply to Re: huge wheel, posted by Dr. Bob on September 5, 2001, at 4:55:33
Hullo, Dr Bob. Can I ask you, did you meet up with anybody yesterday, like Nikki? I would have love to have met up with you and some others, but unfortunately I couldn't take time off yesterday. What are you doing tomorrow (Friday)? Anything exciting? How long are you over here for? (Sorry to bombard you with all these questions! But I'm sure the others would like to know too.)
Lisa
Posted by geekUK on September 6, 2001, at 16:55:43
In reply to Re: London on Wednesday » Dr. Bob, posted by dreamer on September 4, 2001, at 21:08:07
> > > Have fun try and get on the London eye ride if it's in operation.
> >
> > What's the eye ride? Don't think I've heard of it...
> >
> > Bob
>
> It's a huge wheel with carriages that turns very slowly for about 30 mins, great for seeing the whole of London from above(so I've been told)
> Can't recall where around London it is but it's well known and visible.
>
> Enjoy!
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2001, at 12:33:44
In reply to Visit to London » Dr. Bob, posted by Lisa Simpson on September 6, 2001, at 5:41:27
> Hullo, Dr Bob. Can I ask you, did you meet up with anybody yesterday, like Nikki? I would have love to have met up with you and some others, but unfortunately I couldn't take time off yesterday. What are you doing tomorrow (Friday)? Anything exciting? How long are you over here for?
There for a week, thankfully got back before disaster struck... Didn't meet up with anyone. Didn't get to "fly" the London Eye, but did see it. Also came across a webcam of it (unfortunately not *from* it):
http://www.camvista.com/england/london/bale.php3?pageMode=nonjava
Found some nice restaurants, went to a lot of theater. Queued up in intermittent drizzle for 3 hours (but had my laptop, so worked when it was dry) for a floor cushion for the final performance of the Tragedy of Hamlet -- and it was worth it. Went to Blue/Orange, about a patient on a psychiatric unit. Saw Big Ben, went to Evensong at Westminster Abbey. Walked around Covent Garden and through the British Museum and the Tate Modern. English bacon and black pudding, yum. Took the Tube everywhere, it was so convenient. Had a great time! :-)
Bob
Posted by Lisa Simpson on September 19, 2001, at 7:40:14
In reply to Re: Visit to London, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2001, at 12:33:44
Thank you for your post, Dr. Bob. I'm really glad you enjoyed yourself over here... but sorry none of us locals came up to visit you! Maybe next year, if you're planning another visit...?
Kind regards
Lisa
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 19, 2001, at 12:33:11
In reply to Re: Visit to London, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2001, at 12:33:44
Really sorry that I didnt manage to meet you Dr bob.. but it sounds like you had a great time while you were here... Drizzle is what you have to expect though I'm afraid.. we seem to have had it for about 10 days straight now!
Pleased you enjoyed it..
Nikki x
Posted by gracie2 on September 26, 2001, at 23:43:35
In reply to Re: Visit to London, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2001, at 12:33:44
Dr. Bob-
You ought to announce all your travel destinations
and get the scoop from locals on where to stay and what to do. For instance, if you ever come here to St. Louis, I would recommend an opulent
bed-and-breakfast in a turn-of-the-century mansion that wouldn't cost any more than a boring hotel. Wonderful dining, and it's supposed to be haunted. How cool is that?
-Gracie
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 1:28:47
In reply to Travel guides for Dr. Bob, posted by gracie2 on September 26, 2001, at 23:43:35
> You ought to announce all your travel destinations
Actually, I already do:
http://www.dr-bob.org/talks/schedule.html
> and get the scoop from locals on where to stay and what to do. For instance, if you ever come here to St. Louis, I would recommend an opulent
> bed-and-breakfast in a turn-of-the-century mansion that wouldn't cost any more than a boring hotel. Wonderful dining, and it's supposed to be haunted. How cool is that?Very cool! Any tips on Washington, DC? Or interest in trying again to get together in person?
BTW, I'm supposed to say something there about: (1) how aware patients in online support groups are of the various online ethics and quality initiatives, (2) to what extent those initiatives influence their use of online resources, (3) what other methods they use to decide whom to trust, and (4) the ethics of facilitating such groups.
Any comments on any of the above? (Remember, these are comments I might present.)
Bob
PS: Welcome back! :-)
Posted by paxvox on September 28, 2001, at 9:09:10
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 1:28:47
Going to DC Dr. B? I lived in it's suburbs for 30 years. If you have never been, you should at least check out the following:
Natural Museum of History
National Air & Space Museum
Vietnam Memorial
Hirshorn Art Gallery
Walter Reed Hospital Museum
National Archives
National Cemetery (actually in Arlington, VA)
Jefferson Memorial
That should take about 10 days! :)
PAX
Posted by Mair on September 28, 2001, at 21:15:02
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 1:28:47
> >"(1) how aware patients in online support groups are of the various online ethics and quality initiatives,"
>
> Maybe this answers this question but what are those?Mair
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2001, at 8:03:10
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information » Dr. Bob, posted by Mair on September 28, 2001, at 21:15:02
> > >"(1) how aware patients in online support groups are of the various online ethics and quality initiatives"
>
> > Maybe this answers this question but what are those?Right, I think that answers that question. :-) Anybody else?
Bob
Posted by KB on September 29, 2001, at 9:07:58
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information » Dr. Bob, posted by paxvox on September 28, 2001, at 9:09:10
Don't forget the Holocaust Museum . . .
Posted by Cam W. on September 29, 2001, at 13:20:36
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 1:28:47
> BTW, I'm supposed to say something there about: (1) how aware patients in online support groups are of the various online ethics and quality initiatives, (2) to what extent those initiatives influence their use of online resources, (3) what other methods they use to decide whom to trust, and (4) the ethics of facilitating such groups.
>
> Any comments on any of the above? (Remember, these are comments I might present.)Bob - May I suggest saying something about not assuming that people know too much about the ethic and initiatives of a site? I have only given cursory looks at the online literature regarding ethics and quality initiatives that "should be" contained within online information of any kind. I tend to rely on internal "gut" feelings about sites when I first enter. The true nature and intent of a site usually does reveal itself over the course of a couple weeks (or a couple months, depending upon the my familiarity with the content of said site).
Perhaps the thought with which one gives to the ethics of a online support group depends upon a number of internalized factors, which make up "gut" feeling. Exposure to the nature and imporance of ethics could be one. The more one has been "consciously" exposed to ethics, the more one may "consciously" look for the ethically quality inherent in any support group.
As said above, the familiarity of the content of the support group to the participant, is a large factor in the "ability" of the participant to determine the ethical quality of the group. The determination of ethics, I would think, would be based on an interalized sense of right and wrong, that has be instilled, throughout life, into the participant. Hence, a participant's personal ethics and familiarity with the subject matter would be major factors in their perception of the ethics of the group. This perception would vary widely among participants in the group.
For example, a fundamentalist christian support group for depression, where prayer and meditation are advanced over scientific methods (psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy), would raise different ehtical issues, to different extents, in different people. Some would wholehearted follow the doctrines of this group, others would be able to formally and logically show the pitfalls of such practices, but most people's ethical base of such a site would fall somewhere inbetween.
Actually, we have seen the same sort of thing on this site, where some visitors have said that we dwell too much on pharmacotherapeutic issues, rather than psychotherapeutic issues (ie. CBT, etc.). Evidence of bias toward medical treatments "could" be seen in the division of psychological issues from medical issues, and the insertion of psychological issues onto a board (PSB) where it is blended into stictly social (eg chit-chat) issues, only a part of which concerns "structured" therapeutic psychosocial issues.
Another problem of ethics is in defining the term within the context with which it is used. Again, personal bias comes into play. In the case of this site, the bias of the medical community. I guess that fundamental ethical considerations come into play (ie. "first do no harm"), but these do not have solid edges either. This we have seen in the most recent debate ;^)
The issue of who to trust is another concern close to my heart. I think that, in general, people who use medical support groups can be too trusting. We have seen instances of this during the lastest debate. Big words and eloquent speech can be confused with knowledge and training, as can adequate search skills. People cannot be sure what is fact and what is conjecture. This is true even of the most knowledgeable, at times. Everything that is said, any advice that is given, must be taken with a grain of salt. I am not sure that everyone realizes this. Granted, most people who are online are probably above the national average in intelligence; they wouldn't have a computer, or know how to use it otherwise (did you realize theat 50% of people are of lower than average intelligence?).
I think that consistantly accurate information (as accurate as medical science allows) over time, along with verification of knowledgeable posters on the site (a must), is the only way we are to truly be able to decide who to trust. I do not think that citation is absolutely necessary, unless a point of view can be logically challenged. There are inherent problems in the citation of studies, especially when that study is not easily accessed. Although the ability to find citations to back one's view is a must. Still, as stated above, one must read posts closely and inject healthy skepticism into what they have read, regardless of the poster.
Another problem that I have recently found is that one has to be careful when posting conjecture, even when it is stated (several times) in the post, that it is only conjecture (ie. my post on kindling in MDD - an argument that could be raised is that kindled MDD is really in fact misdiagnosed Bipolar Disorder Type II, or in fact that "perhaps" MDD and BiPD are "possibly" on a continuum). There is a problem that people could use conjecture as fact in subsequent post, misleading readers. I am not sure how this confusion can be avoided; perhaps by posting a disclaimer in large type at the begininng of a post.
I'll muse on some of your other questions over the next couple days. I am not sure that this is what you are looking for.
- Cam
Posted by Marie1 on September 29, 2001, at 15:14:24
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 1:28:47
Dr. Bob,
I have to agree with Cam's point that many people who post and/or lurk at this site don't give much thought at all to "ethics" (as the term relates to the medical profession), unless it's something they've been required to study. I think the ethical atmosphere is ascertained by reading the posts and followups, and judging by the quality of the information (does this person's answer jive with what I've heard before, does this make sense based on what I *do* know?), and I think most people use this forum that way. If something (or someone) sounds off the wall, you tend to discount it. And often, even if the information is totally unknown to you, others who have a better knowledge base on the subject usually jump in to point out inaccuracies. My psychiatrist recommended this site when he learned I was attempting to to self diagnose using the internet. (And I quote: "that's every doctor's worst nightmare" :-)!). I respect his opinion, so that sort of endorsed this site to me. Of course, I only speak for myself, but I think most people don't rely on the information they get here as God's truth, it's more that it helps to clarify what you already know, and and it's usually good to get other opinions. And as far as ethics go, I must add that *yours*, especially regarding "civility" are the most evident here :-).
I hope you enjoy your trip to DC, and remember to duck if you hear a plane flying overhead!
Marie
> > You ought to announce all your travel destinations
>
> Actually, I already do:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/talks/schedule.html
>
> > and get the scoop from locals on where to stay and what to do. For instance, if you ever come here to St. Louis, I would recommend an opulent
> > bed-and-breakfast in a turn-of-the-century mansion that wouldn't cost any more than a boring hotel. Wonderful dining, and it's supposed to be haunted. How cool is that?
>
> Very cool! Any tips on Washington, DC? Or interest in trying again to get together in person?
>
> BTW, I'm supposed to say something there about: (1) how aware patients in online support groups are of the various online ethics and quality initiatives, (2) to what extent those initiatives influence their use of online resources, (3) what other methods they use to decide whom to trust, and (4) the ethics of facilitating such groups.
>
> Any comments on any of the above? (Remember, these are comments I might present.)
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Welcome back! :-)
Posted by shelliR on October 1, 2001, at 19:20:15
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 1:28:47
> > You ought to announce all your travel destinations
>
> Actually, I already do:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/talks/schedule.html
>
> > and get the scoop from locals on where to stay and what to do. For instance, if you ever come here to St. Louis, I would recommend an opulent
> > bed-and-breakfast in a turn-of-the-century mansion that wouldn't cost any more than a boring hotel. Wonderful dining, and it's supposed to be haunted. How cool is that?
>
> Very cool! Any tips on Washington, DC?On the off chance that you haven't already booked a hotel, the Tabard Inn at Dupont Circle is very charming, and just generally a nice place to hang out. I've never stayed overnight, but have had coffee and drinks there. http://www.tabardinn.com/home.htm. One of my favorites galleries is very close by (in the Dupont Circle area) , the Phillips Collection. http://www.phillipscollection.org. It’s one of the first modern art collections in the country, collected primarily by one man (Duncan Phillips). It has some very fine work, (Renoir, Matisse, Georgia O'Keefe, etc.) housed in a very intimate gallery. What are your interests, aside from the obvious (and how much free time will you have?) That will help in pointing you to places you might like to see.
Shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2001, at 20:03:01
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, and Quality of Information » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on October 1, 2001, at 19:20:15
> On the off chance that you haven't already booked a hotel, the Tabard Inn at Dupont Circle is very charming, and just generally a nice place to hang out. I've never stayed overnight, but have had coffee and drinks there. http://www.tabardinn.com/home.htm. One of my favorites galleries is very close by (in the Dupont Circle area) , the Phillips Collection. http://www.phillipscollection.org. It’s one of the first modern art collections in the country, collected primarily by one man (Duncan Phillips). It has some very fine work, (Renoir, Matisse, Georgia O'Keefe, etc.) housed in a very intimate gallery. What are your interests, aside from the obvious (and how much free time will you have?) That will help in pointing you to places you might like to see.
Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! It ended up being a quick trip, so I only had part of one afternoon, so I ended up just taking the Metro out to see the Pentagon. I'll keep the rest in mind for next time, though...
Bob
Posted by akc on November 7, 2001, at 20:38:41
In reply to Re: Washington, DC, posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2001, at 20:03:01
How did your talk go, given all of our wonderful input? :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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