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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 92 to 116 of 116. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:05:43
In reply to Dinah?, posted by alexandra_k on March 16, 2014, at 16:35:16
It depends on the type of emergency, I think. I fall apart in medical emergencies.
But yes, I did handle Katrina better than he did. But our experience in Katrina makes this even more incomprehensible. Even then, with the whole world in chaos, he never just cut me off. He might have said he couldn't handle me right now. He might have run away. But he never just disappeared. He made an effort at least to not disappear.
I know in my heart that my therapist would never do this.
Yet he did.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:08:23
In reply to Re: Support is what Dinah Seeks » Dr. Bob, posted by sleepygirl2 on March 14, 2014, at 20:36:54
Rationalizing isn't always bad. I've made up at least one scenario that makes sense to me. If I never hear anything else, I'll have to cling to that one.
I feel very detached. At least in the daytime. He almost seems like someone I used to know long ago. Perhaps. Maybe he was a dream.
But whenever I wake up, I still breathe pain.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:10:12
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave » Dinah Seeks Support, posted by Twinleaf on March 14, 2014, at 10:12:04
((( Twinleaf )))
Thank you. I have tried.
I hope you understand that there is a lot of caring and support here for you as well, because of how much you've given to others through the years.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:14:14
In reply to Re: He's not dying » baseball55, posted by Willful on March 13, 2014, at 23:33:52
> We need to accept the complexity of her (and our) feelings, and the primal sense of abandonment that some people particularly feel devastating-- leaving only the loved person's absence.
Willful, you have absolutely nailed it. Although I wasn't well enough to post, this resonated so much and I felt so perfectly understood that I cried.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:30:14
In reply to Re: And that's it for me, guys. Bye. » Dinah Seeks Support, posted by SLS on March 13, 2014, at 22:42:21
The best way I can explain it is this. You're maybe almost ready to go away to college. Then you come home after a brief absence (I had to cancel my last session) to find out that your dearly loved mother has left you a note on the kitchen table saying that something is terribly wrong with her, and she's going away and doesn't know when she'll be back.
It doesn't even matter that I had one foot out the door, metaphorically. It's terrifying. I'm terrified for him, I'm terrified for me. And I'm angry he left an impersonal note that left me thinking he might be dying. Other people - people who know him only casually - know where he is, but they won't tell me. I'm left wondering if I missed something. Was something going on that I didn't notice because I was arriving late and missing sessions?
His phone is disconnected, and that one slim hope I had that he would one day return has been dashed. That one slim connection. As long as the phone message was there, I knew he hadn't totally disappeared. He was expecting to return.
Tools. Well, despite his feelings about Babble lately, he'd probably be happy that I reached out here. He always knew I was sometimes quite unkind to him here, and he was just glad I had somewhere to process my feelings.
It occurred to me earlier today that he'd likely tell me that story about the farmer.
http://www.rainbowbody.com/newarticles/farmerson.htm
Then I'd metaphorically put my hands on my hips and tell him that's awfully *convenient* for him. And that abandoning me can never be rationalized that way. That it was good for me to see him as long as he needed the income stream, but now "may be". And he'd likely laugh and acknowledge that it could look like that. And then tell the same story next time.
I miss him. I literally can't believe I'll never see him again. I literally can't believe our twenty years of fighting to relationship can end like this.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:38:20
In reply to Re: And that's it for me, guys. Bye. » SLS, posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:30:14
Incidentally, I hope no one tries to get me to see how the farmer story applies. I thought it was a cop-out when he used it to excuse his own actions. But it was him doing it, and it was so like him that I couldn't help but find it endearing.
There is nothing that could offset the loss of trust that abandonment by my therapist of twenty years has caused. I don't want to extend myself to anyone ever. If my therapist, who would never in a million billion years, did this, then how could I trust anyone in the entire world. Except maybe my husband and a couple of dogs.
Posted by baseball55 on March 20, 2014, at 20:14:58
In reply to Re: And that's it for me, guys. Bye., posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:38:20
I'm so, so sorry Dinah. It makes me cry to think of how awful this must be. I know how attached you have been to him and, really, him to you. It's so sad and so unfair.
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2014, at 21:23:12
In reply to Re: And that's it for me, guys. Bye., posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:38:20
Do you know where he lives? drive by? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2014, at 1:36:22
In reply to Re: And that's it for me, guys. Bye. » SLS, posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 18:30:14
Thanks, Dinah. Your metaphor was very helpful in providing an understanding as to what you are experiencing.
The only thing I can think to say is that I'm sorry. I'm sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry that you have to experience the such hurt. Your level of anxiety must be very high. Mine would be.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2014, at 19:52:29
In reply to Re: And that's it for me, guys. Bye. » Dinah, posted by SLS on March 21, 2014, at 1:36:22
I think I'm going to try to forget my therapist ever existed. And totally cut off my emotional self until it feels better.
I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. Emotions are pesky things.
Posted by Tabitha on March 27, 2014, at 15:54:00
In reply to Thanks guys., posted by Dinah on March 21, 2014, at 19:52:29
Dinah, well I'm not sure if you'll see this. I'm so sorry your therapist let you down so spectacularly. You deserve better. I hate to see such an insightful and kind-hearted person hurt so much, particularly when the hurt comes from what is supposed to be the safest, most nurturing relationship.
The further I get from my own therapy the more I think that therapy benefits the therapists more than the clients. However, I do still hope that despite this awful ending, you have benefited from the 20 year relationship. I like your phrasing, that it provided an alternative to being a "suburban hermit".
The not-knowing why someone left just absolutely makes me nuts. I just want to punch him and the referral therapist for refusing to give an outline of the reasons. I do not think secrecy is about protecting the clients or even about protecting the therapist from actual harm. To me it is about protecting the therapists' power. Oz behind the curtain and all.
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2014, at 17:38:26
In reply to Ugh, so sorry » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on March 27, 2014, at 15:54:00
Thanks, Tabitha.
I think I hate people and will go back to being a suburban hermit. They say it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. That's crap. It's far better never to have loved and never to have felt so very very horrible.
I HATE PEOPLE!!!
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2014, at 17:39:13
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2014, at 17:38:26
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2014, at 17:51:41
In reply to Ugh, so sorry » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on March 27, 2014, at 15:54:00
I think you're right. It's to protect them.
I found some papers today from the mid nineties. I was using a dot matrix printer! I've been seeing my therapist since dot matrix printers.
And he just disappears without a trace and I may never hear from him again, not even to find out what happened.
Posted by Tabitha on March 30, 2014, at 16:50:34
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2014, at 17:51:41
Amazing how outdated 90s stuff seems now.
It's good to see you posting. Breakup pain is probably #1 on my list of Painful Experiences. The only good thing to say about it is that it eventually changes.
Posted by Willful on April 5, 2014, at 1:04:49
In reply to Ugh, so sorry » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on March 27, 2014, at 15:54:00
How are you doing Dinah?
Have you begun to feel even brief moments of relief-- of being out from under?
The bad feelings may come in waves and still be more than you feel you can tolerate-- but I hope some moments of feeling yourself have begun.
Have you had any word? from his fill-in therapist or anyone else?
My own psychopharmacologist, with whom I have wonderful rapport and whom I have trusted implicitly-- was forced to leave his practice because of a serious illness from which he will not recover. He and I had nothing even approaching your relationship with your therapist but he would never abandon a patient to the sort of rupture and spiritual nausea (in the existential sense)-- that your T put you through. I am still so appalled that he could suddenly and callously disappear.
But I hope time is making a small beginning of healing--- and that there is more healing to come. And I deeply hope that he is recovering and will be well-- and that he will make some attempt to redress this wrong.
Very best wishes and thoughts,
Willful
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2014, at 3:59:03
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by Willful on April 5, 2014, at 1:04:49
I think much of the time I am dissociated enough from my feelings that I do ok. I was even laughing about it the other day with my boss. But dissociation from my feelings has its down side. I am suffering from so much IBS that it's just now, a month later, that I feel comfortable leaving home for more than an hour or so at a time. I still don't have much of an appetite. Or rather, I'm unaware that I'm hungry. So that maybe once a day or so I figure it out and eat a lot. The rest of the time I have to force myself to eat, and the results are often negative.
If I don't lose weight from this, I'll never lose weight. Unless the steady diet of Risperdal offsets the little food the rest of the time.
Then of course there are the hostile takeovers from my emotional self. I'll be doing just fine and then some little thing will send me right off the rails (as with the last time I posted here). That was purely my emotional self. I'm now purely my rational self. Only in therapy did the two ever come close to meeting.
I'm sorry about your psychopharmacologist. Is that recent? That is so sad.
I think I'm existing in a dialectic. I have grown to trust that my therapist actually cares for me over the last few years. I still can't accept that he did this the way he did it. It can't have happened. Yet it did. He left me waiting and wondering and agonizing. He didn't add a few personal words to the form email. He didn't contact me himself, and he didn't delegate calling me personally to someone else.
I recognize that this is something catastrophic. His wife has terminated his cell phone number (which was his listed business number), and is closing at least one of his offices. You don't do that if you expect that someone will be back in what is now three months. So on her part there is clearly no expectation that he will return in anywhere close to the near future. I don't know if he will ever call me or not. I wonder what will happen to my records.
The only possibility that makes any sense at all to me is that something happened or my therapist had some sort of breakdown and is in a rehab or mental health program. He would expect to be out in four months (since he mentioned four months a few times in his phone message and email), but isn't sure if he'll be allowed to practice. The vagueness in terms of his medical leave would be due to a fear of negative judgment. I still don't quite get why he'd be afraid (and referred therapist and wife would be pretty sure) that he's never going to return. Even if he's impaired in some way, people generally return to practice don't they? The certainty is baffling to me. Because referred therapist didn't seem to be particularly compassionate or worried about him, so I tend to believe that she really meant that he's NOT dying. Which was said in what seemed to me to be a rather emphatic and almost dry tone. I did appreciate her telling me that.
But I don't at all trust my judgment, and I'm most likely wrong. I don't want to think he's dying. Of course I also don't want to think of his life being turned upside down by mental health or addiction issues either. And I wouldn't feel nearly as abandoned under those circumstances. I think I could understand that he couldn't, wouldn't be allowed, to make contact even if he wanted to. And he might not want to if he expected negative judgment from me.
Which would be foolish of him. I may berate him from time to time for his shortcomings. But I wouldn't do so when life is already berating him. He's my therapist mommy, and you don't stop loving your therapist mommy no matter what they do to you or to anyone else. It's a matter of imprinting.
I worry that I've been so distant lately that I didn't notice something was off with him. I worry that if I hadn't cancelled that last Friday before he disappeared, I might have been spared this agony by learning or sensing something.
And I am starting to tremble convulsively as I write this, so I'd better stop now before I am victim of a hostile takeover by my emotional self.
I want to be very clear that these are just my imaginings and in no way reflect any reality of my therapist. It's not even gossip because I have no information. I know his wife is ok, and I'm pretty sure his stepdaughter is ok. That's all I really know. The rest is pure conjecture on my part and is more likely to be wrong than right. The pieces seem to fit better than anything else I can imagine, but there are still any number of pieces that won't jam themselves into that scenario.
Posted by yellowbird01 on April 7, 2014, at 18:59:31
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry » Willful, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2014, at 3:59:03
Dinah..
It has been literally years since I've posted here, but I do read from time to time, and remember the special relationship you had with your T. It makes me so, so sad for you that this has happened. It's unbelievable. Two years ago, my own T of 12 years terminated me very suddenly with absolutely no meaningful explanation except that "it wasnt me". The week prior, we'd been talking in depth about trust, and she'd said to me "yellowbird, I know it's hard for you to trust me, but I want you to know I'll be here with you, as long as it takes". BS. Whatever. I can so relate to the feelings of dissociation, shutting off the feelings, until they burst through occasionally. I absolutely went through that, and still do at times... although the intensity of it is much, much less, even at the worst moments. The lack of understanding is the absolute worst. I'm so sorry you're experiencing this.As I've been reading your posts over the weeks, I have to wonder if something didnt happen where his licensing board got involved. Perhaps his license is temporarily suspended? Id think (although I'm not positive) that if this happened, he'd be barred from any direct communication with clients. Sometimes those suspensions are due to terrible misbehavior on a Ts part.. sometimes due to "lesser" things like lying about completing the required continued education each year, billing issues, a confidentiality issue, etc. I dont know. The T you spoke to for "additional information", who said it was "nothing like that" re him dying.. and the fact that the phone number he used for his practice is turned off.. it all makes me wonder. From all you've said about him over the years, I KNOW he cares about you, and I'm sure he knows this hurts you. How could he not? It seems whatever has happened must be somehow out of his control. I dont know. I may be totally off base, but I just wanted to share the idea in case you hadnt considered it. Most licensing boards in most states allow you to look up providers and they will often show whether they have been actions against their license. Often it takes months to show up, so even if this is the case, it may not show right now.. but it might be worth looking if you havent already.
Again, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I knew what else to say.
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2014, at 21:10:49
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by yellowbird01 on April 7, 2014, at 18:59:31
That is bizarre. No explanation at all other than it wasn't you? Well of course it wasn't. It was her!
I really did get to trust that he cared about me. It's hard to shake that certainty.
It would really be my first guess that his license was in jeopardy and he wasn't able to contact clients except that it all happened so suddenly. Licensing board actions take years, not days. He didn't seem particularly worried or stressed that Tuesday and he was gone by the following Monday. Unless I totally missed his mood for once because I wasn't paying attention. But honestly, I don't think he's a good enough actor to have hidden a long term worry about licensure.
I still can't imagine how referred therapist would be so certain he wasn't returning unless it was license related though. How can you be sure, even if someone moves, that they won't skype or do phone therapy? Not that she said she was certain. She just said she didn't think he'd be back. But I darn well hope she wouldn't say that lightly. All she said was that he wasn't dying. But she did say it with enough force that I inferred that it wasn't anything like that. But then I was a total mess. I don't at all trust my inferring.
How have you dealt with the loss? Did you eventually give up trying to find out what happened? I can't see myself easily doing that. Did you find a therapist to help you get over therapy? It seems like such a similar situation.
Posted by baseball55 on April 7, 2014, at 21:12:16
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by yellowbird01 on April 7, 2014, at 18:59:31
So glad you're back posting Dinah. So, so sorry about what has happened. The not knowing must be the hardest - spinning scenarios in your head, then trying to shut the whole thing down.
Take care.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2014, at 5:59:51
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry » yellowbird01, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2014, at 21:10:49
well...
now i'm intregued... a mystery...
have you googled? how about newspapers?
i would want to know the deal. yes. can you write him a letter that he will get???
Posted by Dinah on April 8, 2014, at 8:03:45
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2014, at 5:59:51
The funny thing is that if they told me what I *needed* to know, I wouldn't need to know the details. I've always told him that, but I don't think he really understood the difference.
As it is, I google compulsively but haven't found anything to the point.
I have no way of knowing if he'll ever get his emails. His form email did say that he would not be able to reply, and his phone message (before it was disconnected)said not to leave a message because he would be unable to reply. My google searching did inadvertently reveal his personal address and phone, but if wouldn't intrude unless enough time had passed that I was sure I should ask for my file.
In my emails to him, I did no more than say I cared, was praying for him, and hoped he would contact me as soon as he could, whether or not he could make an appointment with new or current clients. I do care about him, and don't wish to burden him overmuch. Surely he recognizes the pain he has caused me. I'm just not sure how much that matters to him, when his life is clearly in disarray.
Posted by Dinah on April 8, 2014, at 8:04:25
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by baseball55 on April 7, 2014, at 21:12:16
Thanks, Baseball.
Posted by Willful on April 9, 2014, at 10:07:46
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry » Willful, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2014, at 3:59:03
Hi Dinah, I'm thinking about what you wrote and want to respond, but I've been terribly busy and emotionally drained myself.
As I was thinking about you, I remembered a book I had read many years ago, about what happens when a therapist/analyst becomes ill.
It's called "Illness in the Analyst: Implications for the Treatment Relationship. " Harvey J. Schwartz and Ann-Louise Silver, Editors. 1990.; Laura Barbanel, Rachelle Dattner, Nina D. Fieldsteel, Phyllis Ziman-Tobin and Norma P. Simon. The Death of the Psychoanalyst (Panel Presentation), Contemporary Psychoanalysis, Vol. 25, No. 3, 1989, pp. 412-447.
It's on Amazon, but costs $45,00. I'm not sure how I read it, because I don't have the book-- probably I took it out of the library-- Are there any have any medical schools in town? because they, or a university with a PhD psych program would be the most likely places to find it.
There's a review in:
The San Francisco Jung Institute Library Journal.
Publication Info
Published by: Taylor & Francis, Ltd. on behalf of The C.G. Jung Institute of San Francisco
Article DOI: 10.1525/jung.1.1992.10.4.27
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/jung.1.1992.10.4.27which is available to me through a university library. It should be available generally, though, because I believe JSTOR has opened its archive of journal articles to the public. So maybe you can read the review, which should also be valuable.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/jung.1.1992.10.4.27 is the url of the review in JSTOR.
which actually I notice is also in the above cite.
If you have trouble accessing it, I can send an attached file to any email address you have. If it's possible through babblemail (which I'm not sure), I can do that.
I'm relieved that so much healing has gone on-- I very much hope that you can find a way of mourning this loss- although it is terribly complicated by the way it happened. He owed you -- and all his patients, but especially you, so much more.
I very much hope that as time goes on, you can gain more and more distance and recover from this extreme disappointment, I would even say betrayal. I continue to be so taken aback by this.
It contrasts so sharply with the way my pdoc handled his illness-- he is clearly profoundly distracted and not well-- by is seeing patients and trying to find appropriate referrals. I had my last appointment with him last week, so this is a very recent thing, although he had alerted me to his retirement a month or two ago.
But he was always what they call a "mensch"-- and remarkable person. For all his good traits, clearly your therapist left you in the most abysmal way-- which you did not deserve.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 10, 2014, at 1:34:08
In reply to Re: Ugh, so sorry, posted by Willful on April 9, 2014, at 10:07:46
> It's called "Illness in the Analyst: Implications for the Treatment Relationship. "
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, a movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she is at least aware of it.
Bob
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